so~\ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 [EE 17 PE 00k you over? Did she get a taxi? A. No, our friend came back and picked us up. Q. which friend was that? A. His name was Brian. TI don't know his last name. I really didn't know [Jand « didn't know her friends or whatever, but I met Jeffrey. And once I met Jeffrey, he was a very awesome guy and I just -- I don't know. <I ended up giving him my number so x could -- I didn't want J or Brian to drive me anymore. I would rather go to him on my own. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. when you would take the taxis to and from, would he pay for them? uh-huh. And he would pay when you arrived? Uh-huh. D> 2 > And then he would just give you extra money 16 when you left to pay for the taxi? Q. okay. So from the money that he paid you for the massage? A. Two hundred, yeah. Page 16 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012297

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Vw Bm WN 2007-04-25 a... Q. Where were you living at the time? located on MJ «So 1 would take, you know, straight SE down to where I lived. Q. Do you remember about how much that taxi fare was each way? A. ‘Twenty dollars. Q. And did you always use the same taxi service or -- A. No, I used different taxis all the time, so -- Q. And you would just call and have them come to your house? A. Uh-huh. I used a whole bunch of different taxis, whatever is available. Q. So you mentioned that the second massage, was it any different than the first one? A. Yes. Q. How was it different? A. when I went there, I went there by myself. And 17 I went up to the massage room and Jeffrey was just like regular like he was before on his stomach and he had a towel over and we started the massage and And after the massage, Page 17 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012298

Oo wm nN DN 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 [EEE xr And this was like at the end of the massage, our 30-minutes massage, usually it was even shorter than that. And he masturbated at the end of the massage and it was like two seconds and I was just topless. Q. And when he turned over Okay. I cut you off. You said he didn't even? Q. Did he ever ask you to rub his chest or rub his nipples during the massage? A. Actually, later on -- because I saw him for a long time. Later on, I asked him, you know, and I asked him -- I would give him -- you know, I would rub his 18 chest or whatever Q. So eventually you would continue the massage Page 18 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012299

oo™N uo ea nN DM f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 TXT and he would masturbate at the same time? A. Yeah, but it wasn't on his lower area. Q. Okay. So that was during the second massage. You were paid $200 again? A, Always. Q. Always? Every time you went there? A. Always. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Was it always BE char paid you? A. Sometimes Jeffrey would and sometimes Ti would. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Was it usually before or after the massage? A. After the first time, it was always after. I would go downstairs and I'd get paid. Q. So just sort of tell us, when a massage ended, which I assume was after he ejaculated? A. Q. Okay. A. It wasn't like every time we went there he 19 released. Page 19 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012300

<——~ oO DAN DWH BP WwW 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 Txt Q. Okay. But when the massage was over however it ended, you would just get dressed and go downstairs by yourself or did take you downstairs? A. Yeah. The chef would make us food and it'd be great. And Jeffrey would get dressed and he'd come down with us sometimes or, you know, it wasn't -- we had fun. Q. Okay. How many massages do you think that you gave jeffrey? I can't tell you. Q. And how many times -- would you see him weekly or more than once a week? A. Yeah. Q. More than once a week? A. Q. Okay. But either you would or either a girl that you brought? A. Yeah, uh-huh. Q. Okay. A. But after a while, it wasn't me anymore. I had brought girls, but I got paid $200 to bring girls. Q. Okay. So let's talk just about when you were 20 Page 20 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012301

2007-04-25 carrer Ae performing the massages. what other sorts of things would happen? You said that sometimes he would just like his feet massaged. > OD PF @ Okay. Totally fine with it. And how did that massage go? Actually, Page 21 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012302

-_ wo ON DM B&B WN BS NN NN NN BB BP BP BB Bp Be op wu F&F WwW NY FP CO HO ON DN B&B WY NY f&- CO 21 Q. And how much were you paid for that? > Two hundred every single time. Q. Okay. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. why not? A. why not? Why would he? Q. You seem like a nice young lady, attractive. He never had any urges to -- A. I asked him, I said, when are you going to get married? when are you going to get married, Jeffrey? He said, I'm never getting married. He has, you know, beautiful women al] the time. why would he -- no, huh-uh. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Okay. Now you said that at some point you started bringing other girls over? Page 22 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012303

a f mo ON HD WV KR WN N N N N N N BP BP RP BP RP HY RP RP RF Be wu fF Ww NY FH OF YO) w~A N DB MH BP WwW NY FH OO 22 Uh-huh. How did that start? He likes to see different faces. O » DH > So he asked you if you had friends that you could bring over or other girls? A. Uh-huh. Q. And did any of them tell you what happened after that? A. Always, always, I even asked them. Page 23 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012304

—_ Oo SN Dw FF WY NY H NON N NN NN B&B Be RP Be BP BP BP BP BR BB “we WN EF OG @ ON OW kB wWN BS 2007-04-25 EE <7 23 Q. Okay. And with the other girls, was it the same as what you did or different? A. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, I was more willingly to do more, you know. Like I said, i Q. Were there girls that you brought back multiple times? A. A couple, a couple, but he really liked to see different faces. Q. Okay. I'm just wondering are there some girls he really liked and others he didn’t Tike or did he have any preferences in terms of blondes, brunettes? A. He liked girls like me. Q. Okay. Thin and attractive? A. I guess. Yeah, very attractive women. And he Did you ever bring anybody he didn't care for? How was she different than the others? Q. A. Huh-uh. Q. Yeah? A. Yeah. Q. A. Black. I screwed up. Page 24 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012305

Oo Oe N OD MW Rh WwW NF NON NN NN BP BP Be EPP BP eB PR “Vw BW N BP OW &DN DU BW NN BO 2007-04-25 | 24 Q. How did you know you screwed up? A. He doesn't like black women, obviously. Q. So he let you know? He told you that? A. Yeah, but he was still nice and he still gave her her 200 even though he didn't even have a massage by her. Q. How did he -- he paid you $200 for bringing each girl? A. Uh-huh. Q. And when he told you that, I mean, that's what he told you that he would pay you $200 for bringing the girls? A. Yeah. He said if you bring me -- if you bring me girls, I'll definitely, you know, give you money, compensate you for your time and willing to do that for me, yeah. Q. And you said at that point you stopped performing massages for him? A. At that point, I didn't -- it would be sporadically like. Usually, I had so many girlfriends at the time that, you know, there were some new faces to be saw. And if no one was available, then BB would go. Q. I got you. Aw So -- Q. Do you know some of the girls that you brought, Page 25 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012306

— a \ Oo mn nun BRwWHN NNN NN BB FP BH BP BH eB eB BE mB WN FH Oo ON AU BwWNH PO 2007-04-25 a. 25 some of the their names? A. I don't remember, really. They were like not even friends. Q. we have -- X don't know. We have some messages I guess that some girls’ names that would call Jeffrey and leave a massage. There's some giris names that are referenced. We were just wondering if you knew them? A. If you name them, I can probably remember. MS. BILAFONTA: Jason, do you have that? BY AGENT RICHARDS: A. I don't know Do you know her last name? MS. BILAFONIA: We were hoping you did. THE WITNESS: No, I don’t. BY AGENT RICHARDS: a i A. a’ No, that sounds like a black girl's name. Q. well, you brought a black girl. what was her name? A. I don't know. Don't ask me. Page 26 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012307

25 oO MON DH BWN B NN NN EB BP BP eB YH eB RB Ee BP Bp wnyny fF OF WO WDN DD WwW BP WO Ww FE OO 2007-04-25 MEE +x1 iz A. f yeah, I brought a. 26 Q. who is she? Tell us about i A. Sabrina, we look just alike, if that’s the girl I'm thinking about. We went to school together and I brought her one time and then she ended up moving so she couldn't come with me. Q. were you guys in the same grade or -- No, she was older than me. A Q. A year or two? A . So when you were a sophomore, she was a senior? I just met her in school and I told her. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. what was her last name? A. I don't know. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Do you know where she lived? A. I just met her in school and I told her about it. Q. You told her about it at school? Is that where your discussion was or -- A. well, I said give me your number. I said you can make a couple of dollars. It's real easy. And if Page 27 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012308

2007-04-25) 24 you're comfortable with it, give me a call. 25 Q. 27 1 A. 2 Q. At school. You're not sure what her last name 3 was? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. Do you know where she lived or anything like 6 that, what car she drove? 7 A. No. 8 Q. what'd she look Tike? 9 A. what she looked like? 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. Like me, everything, PE pair, f | eyes. 12 . (Start Side B of tape.) 13 AGENT RICHARDS: Time recorder is being 14 restarted is approximately 4:50 p.m 15 BY MS. BILAFONIA: 16 Q. we were talking about MM you were at 18 A No, I was at ee. 19 q. a aay. 20 A. And that's where BE went to school. 21 Q what about a girl named Page 28 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012309

22 23 24 25 mo A nN DO uw fF WN NP FP BP PF RP FP FE RB ep SC 6O ea N A UM BW DnN BO A. | eal | Ra BY AGENT RICHARDS: 28 Q. I want to know about every one you brought. A. well, one of them died recently, so -- Q. what was her name? In a car accident or something? A. No, she died. Unfortunately, she got shot in the head. You guys probably heard it on the news. She got shot in the head by this guy. I don't want to even talk about it because I'll cry. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Let's talk about the other Sg. A. I don't even know. TF don't know. I don’t know. There were some girls that just I would take one time and then I would never talk to again, so I don't know. Q. How many girls do you think you brought to Jeffrey's house? A. That's a good question. TI bring a lot, like maybe -- I don't know, maybe 30, maybe 30. It was all about the money to me at that time. Q. Now any of the girls that you brought, did any Page 29 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012310

21 22 23 24 25 Oo AN DY FW NY PRP BP PP Be BP Pp BE So n DD UW Ff W NSN FE @ 2007-04-25 9 1x7 of them leave their names and numbers and then they would get appointments directly from Jeffrey or did they always go through you? Q. So you don't know? BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. You weren't getting paid, right? A. I told them, Er said, Don’t give him your number. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. If you brought the same girl more than once, would you get paid each time you brought them or just get the initial $200? A. Every single time I brought a girl, okay, or I referred a girl, I always got $200, always. Q. Even if she came a second time? A. Yes. Q. You would get $200 every time she came? A. Yes. Q. Good deal. Okay. What about EP A. EEE 10? Q. any i that you brought to Mr. Epstein’s house. Page 30 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012311

19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ay oO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 mo AN OD uo S&F WwW KN 04-25 Po where did she go to school? She didn't go to school. okay. How did you know RRP HS sbeen my -- she's my friend in the past. How did I neet at a party or she was my -- Actually, she was my baby's father’s girlfriend at the > @ FF OD PY 30 time and AES Q. You asked her if she'd be willing to go to Jeffrey's house? A. Uh-huh, Q. And when -- do you remember when that would have been? A. Actually, a couple weeks, a couple weeks. I do remember her. A couple weeks after I met him. Q. So you brought her pretty soon after you met Jeffrey? A. Uh-huh. Q A Q. And what happened when you brought a: A The same thing. Q. Okay. Well, I know that sometimes you said that the girls would tell you what happened? Page 31 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012312

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 oO wa nN DMD UV BW NY ee un & WN BF Oo 2007-04-25 i Txt A. She went in there. She had a massage -- she gave a massage on his back. She went a couple times. He liked her. She went a couple times. And then she went, I think, like two times after that. And yeah, he masturbated, but no touching. She didn't -- there's no touching of him. No 31 touching of her. Q. How would -- how would you make appointments for girls to go over there? A. I'd call them and they'd say hi, do you want to go to Jeffrey's house? And they'd say yes or no and we'd call a taxi. Q. How would you know when Jeffrey was going to be Q. Did she always call when they were already in in town? A. Page 32 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012313

i aan \ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Oo CBN HD Ww BP WN FH a ee B WN FO 2007-04-25 a ..; town or would she -- how far in advance would she call you? never called me from anywhere else. It was always when I was in Palm Beach. They'd say hi, we're down here. If you want to come and see Jeffrey, you're more than welcome to. Q. So you wouldn't have like a specific time when you would go over, like be here at 11 or be here at two? 32 A. well, I'd tell them, I'd say -- well, I mean, I'd have to work around his schedule. He'd have to work around mine. Q. Do you -- I know that you said you talked to | on the phone. was there anybody else that you would talk to on the phone? A. If Jeffrey wasn't there like if I'd call him to see how he was doing or whatever, you know, he had -- his chef would answer the phone. His maid would answer the phone. That's -- Q. But was MB the only one you talked to about making appointments? A, Uh-huh, yeah. well, yeah, if Jeffrey wasn't Page 33 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012314

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Oo BN WD WwW BP W NY we PR NF oO 2007-04-25 AE 1x7 available, they'd, you know, he said, the chef or you know, whoever, said Jeffrey will get back to you. Yeah, f made the appointments. Q. So when you were calling to talk to Jeffrey, you were calling the house phone over in Palm Beach? A. Uh-huh, yeah. Q. And how often would you talk to Jeffrey on the phone as opposed to talking to one of his assistants? A. Me and Jeffrey hardly ever talked on the phone. He was always busy. It was mostly [ie we'd talk when Z would get there, you know. So it was like hey, do you 33 want to come in? Yes, cool, you know. Come there, no, cool, bye. Q Do you know someone who works for Jeffrey named a A. I think I met her one time. Q. And what do you know about her? A. She was there. And the person ne, I think, I'm not positive, okay. I'm pretty sure she said that she’s from New York and she travels with Jeffrey, but I think I met her one time, if that's the girl that rings the bel], you know, in my head. Nadia I think is that one person I met one time. Page 34 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012315

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 Oo On DM FP W NY FH bt ie! uw 8 2007-04-25) <r Q. Now you said that you had teased Jeffrey about whether he was getting married. Did you ever know him to have a girlfriend or a steady? A. No, he told me he’s never been married. He’s never had a girlfriend and he doesn't want to have a girlfriend. Q. Were you ever asked to bring a girl for someone else like to give a massage to somebody else or to anyone other than Jeffrey? 34 Q. But anybody else, either any friends that were in town or -- A. No. See, my mother is a masseuse and I have experience massaging and he always liked my massages. So he told J about my massages and she said, yeah, I want a massage so I'd go over there. I think it was one or two times and I gave her a massage. Q. Now when the girts were upstairs with Jeffrey in the bedroom, what would you do? A. The chef would make me carved tomatoes, put some crab. meat in it and I'd just eat, wine and dine. It Page 35 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012316

fo™ 42 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Oo AN Du BP WwW NY 2007-04-25 EE. 1x1 was wonderful, great. Q. And when you would talk to the chef -- A. Yes. Q. -- would anybody else from the house be there? A. Yes. I don’t know their names. I can't remember. There were like all these foreign girls from -- like they're beautiful, beautiful models that are from different -- they have accents. And no, but it was real interesting because we'd talk. And, you know, I'd learn a lot from them and they'd learn a lot from me just being American. And no, every time I went there it was a good Q. And how Tong you would the other gir! be 35 upstairs normally? A. Twenty, 25, 20 to 30 minutes. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Back cm ttstsiSY is there anything else about her that you can remember? You were friends with her, She went three times, you think? Did she go back without going through you to set up any appointments that you know about? A. I don't know. Page 36 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012317

10 i1 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 EEL Q. okay. Were there any other brought? I know you brought other SE or multiple that you Britanys. A. Yeah. I don't know. If you would say like a last name, then I would probably remember, but I don't. q. Any BBP pid you bring a? A. a. yeah, that sounds familiar. Yeah, iii HE yeah. . Uh-huh. what can you tell me about her? How old was she? A. She's older than me. Q. Do you know her from school or -- A. No. where did I meet her? I met her in my neighborhood and I asked her if she wanted to go and 36 yeah, BBE «she was only there one time, though. Q. Did she tel? you how it went with him upstairs? Yeah. , what'd she say? She said -- she's like ah, I don't know. She freaked out or something? > Oo > Oo P No, no, but he didn't want her again. He likes tall, slender and she was like short. Page 37 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012318

10 11 12 13 14 45 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 nO wu B@ WN BB 2007-04-25 J. nr What did she say happened up there? Q. What did she say about him? A. She had fun. Q. She had fun? A. Uh-huh. Q. A. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Did you ever, either when you gave him a massage or any of the girls, did you ever use a big back massager or it was only manual massage? A. No, it was only my hands. we never used anything else. Q. Now when you were working for him, when you were going over to Jeffrey's house to give massages, did you have a boyfriend? A. Yeah, yeah. 37 Q. Okay. How did he feel about you going to Jeffrey's house? A. He waS a jealous little boy, but he didn't care. Bring home the bacon. Q. what's your boyfriends? . Page 38 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012319

aN 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 MEE 11 Q. Now I know you that you mentioned that you had a baby. Is that the baby's father? A. No, no, thank God. Q. who is the baby's father? — Q. Okay, PY And were you still going to Jeffrey's when you were pregnant? A. I would bring girls there when I was pregnant. what you were doing at Jeffrey's house? Q. So did -- Jeffrey actually threw me my baby shower and he got me furniture and a nice rattle for my son and just really nice things, I love mommy frames. Q. was the shower at his house and did he attend? A. No, no, at my house, at my house. And no, jeffrey wasn’t there. He just sent to bring me gifts for the baby. Q. oh, okay. 38 BY AGENT RICHARDS: q. oid ever go over there with you? No. He stayed away. > HD PF No, he didn't go, no. Page 39 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012320

oO a N OM 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 — = Q. Did Jeffrey ask you about boyfriends? BY MS. BILAFONIA: was he curious about -- I mean, A. Yeah, we always talked about everything, yeah. Do you have a boyfriend, yeah, no, you know. We like friends. I don’t know. Just about our life talked stories. You know, he probably knows my whole life story. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Now do you still have contact with him or -- who? A Q. jeffrey. A No, no one's allowing me. BY MS. BILAFONTA: 39 Page 40 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012321

po oN DH Lf 10 11 12 13 14 415 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 Q. what did you say to him? How did you put him of Ff? A. I don't know. oh, well, I don't know. No, he wasn't like begging me or anything. He asked me a couple times and I said -- I just -- there was like no say about it. I just -- I didn't go. And it wasn't like he asked me al] the time. He just it's a couple times he asked. He said I'll bring you to New York or whatever we do and we can, you know, try to fulfill your dreams, Q. Did -- when you got pregnant, did he react in any way? I mean, did he tell you if you want to be a model, you know, this is going to mess with your chances as a model or offer any -- A. No. Q. I'm wondering like how much was he giving you advice? How much stuff were you really -- what did you talk about? A. After the baby, we didn't really even talk. I 40 was -~ I was totally -- I changed. You know, I was a bad little girl and I totally changed. My whole life Page 41 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012322

oO ea nN DA uo Se W 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 xr changed. <A couple times after I had the baby, I brought a couple girls there. It was like two times. And then me and Jeffrey really stopped talking. We just stopped talking. I had my own tife and he had his, so ft don't know. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Did he ever make any arrangements knowing that you wanted to be a model or were modeling? He has a Jot of connections with photographers and stuff. I mean, did he ever set up any photo shoots or anything like that? A. No. No, because he asked me if I would like to go to pursue what I wanted to do, but like I said, for the second time -- Q. I mean in town here, not to travel to New York for a shoot or anything? BY MS. BILAFONTA: Q. Did you ever get money from Jeffrey when you didn't either give a massage or bring a girl over? A. Yes. Q. Okay. when did that happen? A. I had to pay rent and I was vate on my rent. 41 Page 42 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012323

som \, \ fo™ oO eon DOD WwW BP WN HB 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 | This was before the baby. And I asked him -- I asked him for like 300. I don't I couldn't tell you how I got it was he there when you went to get the money? No. Do you know was he in town or did you call him? fp PF Pp I don't even - Q. Was that the only time that he gave you money that wasn't connected either to a massage or to bringing a girl? A. He bought gifts for the baby shower. TI can't remember now. Not off the top of my head, no. I never asked him for anything because I just felt -- I'm not like that, you know. I'm not a user and I'm not -- I don't like that. I've never asked him for money, so -- Q. What about presents, either birthday presents? You mentioned gifts for the baby. Any other gifts that he gave you? A. Yeah, he gave me a -- he had went to Brazil and he came back with a whole bunch of bikinis and he told me to choose one, so I chose one. Q. Any other gifts, Christmastime or birthdays or anything like that? Page 43 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012324

— Oo ON A HW KR WN NNN NN N BOB BB RB ew BB BB BE wm fF WN FP CO YO AN DMV RW NY FP FD 2007-04-25 | a 42 A. No. Q. Did he give any of your friends that you brought gifts? A, Yeah, the girl who died, He gave her a bathing suit, too, from Brazil. Q. we have some telephone numbers that we wanted to ask you about. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Just to see if you recognize these or if you ever used any of these numbers that might have been old telephone numbers for you at some point. I don't know how many cell phones you may have had through the years. See if you recognize any of those. A. a 2; my number. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. what was Qs number? A. Es? Q. Yeah. A. What, my baby's father? Q. Yeah. A. Oh, I never knew his. Always I just, you know, calted him and I never knew his number. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. It was programmed in your phone? A. Yeah. So I don't know. I just know Page 44 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012325

Oo Aa NN DO wm BF W NY fF NNN NN NF BB BP BP Pp BB em Bp BL “AB WN HE OO AN DARD BP GS 2007-04-25 | a 43 because that was my old number like a tong time ago. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. At the time that you were bringing girls over to the house, were you also working a regutar job? A. I worked at City Pizza for a Tittle while, but no, kind of retired and splurged. I didn't have any bills to pay. I saved. I put money in the bank, so -- Q. we had talked about MM before. po you know someone named — Q. And who is that? A. I brought her a couple times. who is that? Q. I mean, did you go to school with her or how did you know her? A. Oh, I had asked one of my friends. I said do you have any -- It was a guy friend. I said do you have any girls that are willing to give massages and I met up with her. I called her. I talked to her on the phone. I met up with her and she said yeah, cool. Page 45 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012326

Oo ON A mW BB wn pe Pom bf YR Oo 13 44 A. That I know of. That I know of, yeah. Q. okay. Did you ever tell any of the girls that they would be going I told them we were going to go Jeffrey's house and it's going to be a topless massage pretty much. Anything you don't want to do, you don't have to do and it's $200, badda-bing, badda-boom. You make $200 in 30 minutes. Q. Q. No one called you and said, I think that you should call -- Q. we just have phone calls that seem to contradict what you're telling us? A. Oh, so you think that people came to me and said that I'm to call the police on Jeffrey? BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Was there anyone that thought that what mr. Epstein was doing was inappropriate and was concerned Page 46 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012327

Oo on DH BP WN NN N NN KN RS BE RP RB BP BP RB Ye eS eB Vw BP WN FP OF YOY ON DM BF WN BK OC 2007-04-25) 13<7 45 about that? far as I know, we all had fun there. Q. I mean, was there anyone that thought what he was doing may have been a Vittle bit wrong? Not wanting to report to the police, but just saying, you know, that's kind of weird? But other than that, not calling the cops. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Was anybody upset that he was masturbating? I know that you said you told them that they would possibly do the massage topless. They might have expected that. Was somebody shocked -- A. Yeah, of course. I mean, he always told them, okay, and I told them, too. Page 47 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012328

po On Om Vw BP WwW KN eH NNN NN BP BP BP Be BP Pp Be EB Pp BE BWN FEF OO MN OH BW NN BO 2007-04-25 | Be 46 A couple girls when they did come out of there, they're like oh, my God, I wasn't expecting all of that, but he always asked them and I asked them. Maybe they were scared, who knows. But yeah, they came out of there like oh, my God, that was kind of weird, you know, yeah. Q. were any of them upset about it? A. Do they like regret it or something? BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Just shaken up, you know, just kind of shocked? A. A couple of girls -- well, see, we were so young and Jeffrey didn't know that. Like the whole thing was shooken up when 1 brought them there. And see, IE don’t know. ae But and afterwards like if he climaxed or whatever, if they were like shooken up, I'm like it's okay, you know. And they were like oh, I wasn't Page 48 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012329

ao 25 oO ON DD MV FR WwW NY NN NN BOP BRB Be eB BP BP BP BP Ww NP OCH ON ARH BW DN BO 2007-04-25 MB +x: expecting that, but they told Jeffrey that, you know, 47 they were comfortable with it. If anything, you know, maybe they were scared and they felt like otTigated, “Vike they didn't want to say. I was thinking that they didn't want to say like no, you know, I don't want to do that, so who knows. I wasn't up there with them, so I couldn't tell you. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Who were the ladies who mentioned that to you who were kind of shocked? A. Usually, the girls that I would bring like one time and I wouldn't even see them again. Q. Can you help me out with some names, though? A. Huh-uh, no. I can't remember her name. She's on the top of my -- oh, my God, I don't remember. I can't remember. BY MS. BILAFONIA Nobody was that upset that called you or spoke to you that was upset with what had happened to the point that they wanted to report it? BY AGENT RICHARDS: Page 49 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012330

24 25 ue AN DD WH BP WwW NY BH NN FP BP FP PP PB BP Bp Bp Ke Oo ODO BN OD Uw RR WY NY RP OO 2007-04-25 [EEE xr Q. Do you know the names of some of the girls that you brought? 48 A. Huh? Q. Do you know the name of some of the girls you brought other than the ones that we've talked about right now? A, Like I said, I can't remember because usually there -- Q. There's about 30 of them, so you've got to know -- A. No, I don't know because there were girls that I didn’t even know so, you know, I just asked them. I said, Hey, would you like to make some money? Here's my number. Do you want to make money? Here’s my number, you know, and that's how it went. So I don't remember the names and I really didn't care to know their names, anyway. Q. Do you know their phone numbers? A. Now? Q. Yeah. A. No. Q. Do you know any of their phone numbers? A. No, no, no. That was years ago. Page 50 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012331

f™ 2007-04-25 a: 22 Q. We're just trying to find any other ladies out 23 there that we haven't already seen and you brought 30 of 24 them and we're just trying to -- 25 A. TI don't know if I brought 30 of them. 49 1 Q. Approximate? 2 A. Yeah. No, I have no clue, no idea. 3 BY MS. BILAFONTA: 4 Q. Did you stay in touch with any of the girls 5 that you brought? 6 A. | Huh-uh, 7 Q. [ER any of the girls that we've 8 talked about?: D' 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Page 51 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012332

21 22 23 24 25 @ ON DU FB wWN BP Te eel =a oe ON DO MO RB wWN BO 2007-04-2 TxT Q. And just so you know, | | we're not talking about necessarily crack cocaine. we're wondering if anybody was taking any prescription medication? A. I don’t know if they were taking prescription medication. That's their problem. 1 don't know. 50 Q. And you didn't give anybody else any prescription drugs? A. No, no. when E was 16, I smoked pot, but no. (Start of Tape 2.) MR. EISENBERG: Okay, gang, back on the record. And I assume you mean prescription medication not for prescription purposes? THE WITNESS: i thought you meant like for prescription, prescribed. No, I don't know. AGENT RICHARDS: Okay, BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. But you weren't taking any anti-depressants or pills or anything? A. No, no, I just smoked pot. But I mostly went there sober. I was comfortable with Jeffrey. Jeffrey always made me feel so comfortable. I thought I was a big girl. Iwas 18. Q. You said that you stopped. why did you stop Page 52 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012333

—_~ 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Oo wn nD uu BP WN FB He ee Pe BP Pp N Dm WV F@ W NY SP OC 2007-04-27 going over there? You said you had a baby and you changed? A. Yeah. Q. what happened? A. Everything changed in my life, everything. I ended up getting a job and I just stopped. I just stopped. I don't know. 51 A. I just stopped because I have a son now and I didn't feel like it was right. First off, I was a stay-at-home mommy, okay. And what am I going to do, bring my son over there to Jeffrey's, no, you know. So I focused on my son. I had a beautiful baby boy that was my pride and joy. I didn't care for anything else. I didn’t care to tell friends. I dropped all my friends. Like he asked me do I have any numbers, no, you know. If anybody does call me, that's my mother. Like it was just me and my baby boy and it's been like that ever since. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Having a baby is a life-changing experience, isn’t it? A. Having a baby? Q. Yes, it's full-time. Page 53 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012334

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 po ON Dw BP Ww NY PF Poe Pe Fe HL uw PB WN FO 2007-04-25 I 11 A, Awesome, I love it. I love it. Q. Yeah, he'll be two in August. A, Mine will be two in June. BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Is that when you started working with the company you're working for now? A. Well, I was -- the whole time I was pregnant, I was taken care of by my baby's father. Then I was a 52 stay-at-home mommy for eight months. After that, I worked at LA fitness, Romeo Pizza. It’s-been a year now. And what do you mean, is that why I'm working? Q. No, I just didn't know where you were working. I thought you said you had gotten a job afterwards, after the baby was born? A. Yeah, I worked at the Taundromat for a couple of days. I just like to -- I wanted to soak in my son. That*s all I did and I was like a hermit crab in the house, you know. And if anybody -- I told -- I told | | I said, you know, I have a baby now and you know, I'd rather stay at home with my baby. my old man was taking care of me. I didn't care about money. Everything was good, so a new life. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Page 54 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012335

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 oan nn wu Bw ny Bp PP RP FP Bb pe WN fF OO A. No. Q. -- how did she -- were any terms used or just in general? Did she ask you if you had any girls that can work or did you have any girls that can come over? Do you have any girls that can give a Jeffrey a massage? How did she ask for these appointments? 53 Q. Okay. BY MS. BILAFONTIA: Q. You said that you and had developed a friendly relationship. vidi” ever tell you what types of girls Jeffrey wanted or I think you said that sometimes she would say he likes this girl or I'm sorry, he likes this girl? Page 55 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012336

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Oo oN OD VM BP WY KN eR BP Pow N FE @ 2007-04-25 | Q. what exactly -- what guidance did she give you A. Yeah. about recruiting the girls? A. She didn't give me guidance. Jeffrey from the get-go, I really like women Tike you. So when I would go searching to make money or whatever or my girlfriends, I know what an attractive person looks like and I would -- I would bring them, you know. I didn't bring any overweight people. I just knew what Jeffrey liked, you know. Q. Did you ever talk to GE ntassages when you 54 gave them, what you did, what you would do? A. Huh-uh. Q. I have a picture of someone and I'm just wondering if you recognize this person? A. No. Was she a girl that was over there? Q. Just a face that we wanted to -- A. Okay. No, I don't know. BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. When you would ask the ladies if they'd like to go over to see Jeffrey, what was the percentage? How many people would say sure, that sounds good. Let's go do it. And how many would just say, no, I'm not Page 56 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012337

pos 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 oO ont DW TH BR WY NY & Ho a 2007-04-25 i: interested. I mean, do you have -- how often when you would ask the girls -- A. It was usually girls that I brought, the girls that I had brought : Say, I would So if I was off the wall, say I was, you know, at a ciub or something and I was like hey, girl, do you want to -- they'd be like you're crazy, you know. Q. That's what I wondered, when you approached them what was the reaction? A. But when I talked to them over the phone, if it 55 was one of my girlfriends’ friends or one of their you know, how your morals are or whatever, if you're comfortable with your body, if you're comfortable with giving an old man a massage for $200. Q. For 30 minutes. A You know, everybody is a different person. Q. Sure. A But most of the girls were -- they were like yeah, sure, yeah. Page 57 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012338

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mo ON DBD Vu S&S WY Nf 2007-04-25 [ll ocr BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Did you ever say anything about, you know, be careful who you talk to about this or I guess I'm wondering why, you know, were rumors going around at school or how did everything keep under wraps? A. Everybody knew. <I don't know. Everybody made jokes about it. Like it was not in school. It was more like in my neighborhood. They would cal] me Heidi Fleish and everybody just made jokes about it. I don't know. It wasn't -- but I didn't care. Q. Right. A. You know, it wasn't if you didn't get out -- it wasn’t really a big thing to me at all. Q. I guess I’m just wondering, you know, kind of 56 the way that this all came out was finally a parent found out about it -- A. Yeah, I heard. Q. -~- and went ballistic. How did you keep these girls’ parents from finding out? A. I don't know, probably embarrassing. Q. Did anybody hassle you at school? Did anybody Page 58 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012339

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 | ne call you Heidi Fleish at school? A. No, no, no, I was out of school by then, No. Q. why did you drop out of school? A. well, actually, -- why? Q. I'm sorry. I interrupted you. A. Because -- no, you didn't. well, my mother had took me me out of school to home-school me. And then I had went back to a school because I was really behind because she didn't home-school me and I had got pregnant, that’s why. And that's in the eleventh grade, that’s when I got out because I was pregnant. And I decided that I was -- I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. I wanted to have a house. I said I'm going to have this baby. I need to have a house, a car, and I set out all my goals and that's what happened. But then I ended up getting my GED and I have a life. 57 BY AGENT RICHARDS: Q. Do you remember any of their names or were they classmates or -- Page 59 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012340

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. It wasn't --It wasn't involved in the school so much, It was just that ae rl in the school. Q. Okay. So she was really the only like school-related -- A. Like person from school, yeah. Q. okay. A. But it was mostly out of school. So I wasn't really hanging out with the best crowd. And all the people that I did hang out with, they were dropouts. So it wasn't anything in school. It was mostly Vike the neighborhood people or my friend, one of my guy friends’ girlfriend or whatever, you know. we were all young and stupid, but -- BY MS. BILAFONIA: Q. Anything else? Do you have any questions for any of us, for me or -- 58 Q. Are you in love with him at all? A. My God, no. I love him as a friend. TI love Page 60 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012341

10 il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 “Ph WN 2007-04-25 EE Dr him as a friend. He has done so much for me. No, I'm not in love with him. I tell Jeffrey, do you want to marry me with all of the money that you have. AGENT RICHARDS: All right. At this time, we're going to conclude the interview. It is 5:34 by my watch. MR. EISENBERG: The only thing we'll correct is that there might have been a reference to an old guy at 50 and we'll just say a-more mature individual who may be in his 50s. Thank you. (End of the tape.) 59 CERTIFICATE The State of Florida, ) Page 61 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012342

io fe N DD 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2007-04-25 | ag County of Palm Beach. ) I, Vicki S. Woodham, Notary Public, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did listen to and stenographically transcribe the foregoing tape-recorded proceedings and that the transcript is a true record to the best of my ability. Dated this 26th day of April, 2007. Vicki S. Woodham My Commission Expires: December 08, 2010 Commission No.: 0D617559 60 Page 62 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012343

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J. Consor r & Associates Reporting & Transcription 561.682.0905 98ae64ed-fabi-461a-b5d2-heB5289cc56a 01910 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012346

] (Thereupon, the following interview was had:) 2 DETECTIVE RECAREY: -- December 13th, 2005. 4 This ts 1D number -- Detective Joe Recarey with 4 the Town of Palm Beach Police Department. Present & is Detective Dawson with the Palm Beach Police fi Department. vy BY DEFECTIVE RECAREY: ts Q Can you state your name tor the recard, please. 38 A 1 Q _ Spell it. please. Q Your date of birth? 14 A 15 Q How eld are you? i€ A Seventeen. 7 Q. Okay. You saw J just spoke to your mom and she 78 has given me authorizanon ro speak to you. Lam Inveshg@aling 4 case invelying a gendeman by the name of Jeffrey. You may know him as Jeff cr Jefirey lives mm the 72 Town of Palm Beach. We believe that you may have some 7? information pertaining to his residence and/or a visit at “7 his house. I'm going to ask you in your own werds tell ine 441 exactly what bappened fram the bevinning. [ may interrupt 22 you to ask you some more questions dul belore we b 2a zaise your right hand fer me. Do you solemnly swear zo tell the truth. the whole truth and nothing bet the truth su help = you Ged? 4 Addo. ie ra i (inaudible) not really friends. IE 3 that she found a way of making mene And then she sand that if Lever told anybody she'd bo beat my ass and so | didn’t even know what she was talki 12 before we got im there she’s like oh, he might ask you to Li: like take off your shirt or something. But J didn't -- it didn't matier so J saicl okay. And Pwent in his house. A lady escorted ne up to his roum. Hada bed on it. Q0 Okay. det ime back you up fora second A Uh buh. Q Yau said this was right befive Christmas. Christmas of last vear or the year besore? Last year QO Last year, A Uh-huh. Sa tls is December of 2004. nghi? I czm. cup oT ke 4a? Pd = Fanny A Uh-huh. (2 Okay. How old were you then? A lthink 14. QQ Okay. A And then i went up there. He was on the phone and he just told me to massage his feet so J went over there and did it. (inaudible} and everything and then -- Q Ilold en fora second. Hold on, Take me from when you got to the housc in Palm Beach. First of all, do you remember the name of the street? A You said it before but | just can't remember. 1) Okay. Da you remember any specifics of the house? A know where itis if] were te go back. 1] could find it. {? Okay. A twas at the end on the lefi side. OQ The end on the leti side? Okay. Do you remember the calor of dhe house? A Oh. It was too long ago. Q Okay. I know it's been some time and we did speak ance before A) Uh-huh. J Allright. So you were watking in with a: A Uh-huh. Do vou go Lhrough the garage’? A No. Yeni eo to the side vate. Yor have to knack an the back door kind of. 4} Uh-huh. A And a lady wall ask you ltke what's your name and why you're there. Q Okay. What's the lady's namie? Do you know? A No. Lihink she was the inaid because she was like fold-ng. up towels and she was bringing them upstairs Q Do you know -- can you deseribe her to me? A She might be a Spanish lady. T can't remember so weil. {) Okay. A And when you walked in, there was food on the table. They offered you food. And I waited a couple of Minutes, | guess he was in another session. I don't know. Because like a pirl walked out before | walked in and this really pretty lady. he walked in with two ladies and they were hike. they looked Jike models or something and one had blond long hair and one of them came down and told me I could go upstairs, That's probably her. And as we were walking up the staizs she told me what was voing to happen like welt, he's going to have same Jofious there and he'll probably be on the phone tor a little while. Q Okay. Did the blond lady with the long hair take J. Consor & Associates Reporting & Tran: 961.682.0905 98ae64ed-fabi-461a-b5d2-be85289cc56a HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012347 191

ao eer Ge ee =? OAL IN Lote v0) PB RAE eH we gh fa Me ! Lie you upstairs? A Yeah. Q. Okay. How does she take you upstairs? How did vou -- A She just sar follow me. Q Did she -- did you go up a big staircase? Litle starrease? ' A Itwas ike a living room. {1 was the kitchen and then a iving room and you tumed right and then it was like a Staircase that would hke | pness it's kind of-- like spirals. Q Okay. Did she take you to where’? A lt kind of looked like a bathroom but there was no toilets. It was a cold room and it had like a sauna in there. QQ Okay. A Abdip sauna. Just a table where he was going to lay on. A place where you could wash your hands and iv just: 7! kind of looked like it was a room for that. Q Okay, Okay. So take me from there. A He turned the lights dewn some and be was on the phone. [He's hike oh. just Qnaudible) lotions are here and vou can sla by rubbing iny feet. So | put some Jotion, tubbed his feet. and then he tokl me to rub his calves, his Jees or whatever. And then Pm trying to remember. And Yeah. and then he wanted me to rub his back. J started up top and then he kept asking me to vo ower and Jower and he sui! had the towel on at uns point and then when | got tight io where bis -- right above his like butt like kid of nght above here -- Q. Ub-heh. A -- he like {lipped over and he just told me to like stan rubbing like bis stomach and stuff Jéke that and his chest and then he told me, he's like why don't vou just take off your shirt and pants. [ was Hike (inaudible), so | did that and then -- Q You had your shirt and pants on when you were rubbing his leet and calves? A Uh-buh. Q Okay. You took olf your pants 2nd shirt. A Uh-huh. Q. Okav. A And then hke he got more Gmaudibic) and he took otf his towel. Q Okay. A 1 dor’t really Eke know why he was doing that but end then he -- he was kind of like talking 10 me like trying to get to know me about my sex fe He's like oh. you're such a beautifud girl, He's lke well what are you like when you have sex. I didn’t really answer him. [ was like. Pade well. Tdorr't really like todo anything. (Inaudible) a massage. That's it. And he’s hke oh, but you're so beautiful. And he kept saying ihat for some reason. Q. Allright. Let me stop you for a secand. When he took ol fhis tawel. was be completely naked? A \h-huh, Yes. Q Okay. And you were in bra and panties? A Uh huh. Q Okay. Okay. Take me trom there. So he took off his towel. he's lething you how beautiful you are. A And he teld me. he told me to mb his nipples like he's like oh. just pinch them or something. And | was like allright. And then be had one hand on his P. Q. Okay. A And tien he like ined rubbing on my prives (phonetic) and he had like the imddle of my bra was the snap of parl and he ke snapped it off and be was tying to feel my boobs and then he jusi grabbed my thighs and he was jacking humsell off at the same time und then he went down to -- sbould Tsay that? Q. Savit A My vagina. BY DETECTIVE DAWSON: QQ We've beard if all A Yeah. And he like didn't take off my panties but Li he like pushed them to the side and he's like {celing down there and he's tike don't worry. don't worry. I'm not going to go in, dada da. [t's so weird. Tm lke anyway. And then he stared rubbing dewn there and then he started talksug dirty. He's like ah, your clit feels so hard and stuff And {like backed away. I was like (inaudible). Q Okay. AC any time did you tell him no? Did you tel] hin yeu're not comfortable with this? A PLeucked away and T said [was like well. [don’t know if E shoule do that and 1 was like very hesitant and so seared that] didn’t know what to do. Kind of Jike you just Want to eetilover with to get tover with, And then -- and f was fecling so tense. } guess that’s why he was saying it. And then he actually stuck his fingers in there and 1 backed away again. He goes oh. don't worry. don't worry And te's bike okay. Pm sorry. Then he went Back to the outside and he was still jerking himisell off and then finally he finished himself. wrapped up his towel and said there was $200 0n the counter amd then there’s an extra hundred for Hfe’s itke oh. I'd like to see you again. | was [ike yeah. | don't know. Q Okay. Let me bring yeu back to when he snapped olf your bra. A Uh-huh, Q When he snapped it off. did you take it off or did 3 (Pades @ ta 9) J. Consor & Associates Reporting & Transcription 961.682.0905 98aeb4ed-fabf-461a-bSd2-be85289cc56a Q1912 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012348

aoe he slip it offof you or did you just have it on and it was just banging? A Yealy, it was just hanging. He had snapped it off and it was just right here, Gt IS oy By Q Okay. At any time did he touch your breasts? & A Yeah. ‘7 Q When -- okay. So vou're standing there, your bra 8 has been unsnapped. What kind of panties did you have on? ; @ Do you remember? A Athone. Q A thong? La A Uh-hub. Q He started touching you on the outside of your panGes os did he move your panties to one side? eae peor boat 5 A On the outside first and then he moved, he maved °@ them over. au Q. Okay. And then he started touching you on the 12 outside of your vagina? 3 A Uh-huh. 29 Q And he told you he was not going to ge inside. 24 A Yeah. Be Q Atwhat point did that change? PP? A When he started feeling dewn there and then 24 when -- pretty soon. an Q When you say Higers, did he use more than one TL fuper? Z A Cthink he used two but { don't know, I Q Okay. & A And then afler T told him, | backed away and |] was S kind of like shaking my head no, he's like okay, I’m sorry. 6 And then he kind of still put bis fingers down there. He was just like pushing really hard on me like, | don't knaw,. he just, just tet ke his Gngers weren't in me bul it was ciose enough lo where it stil felt weird. ( How cid you -- how did -- when be had his fingers inside you, you backed up to ect them out or -- A Yeah. And to Jet him knew that [ don't want to do thar. Q Okay. And none of this was told to you by | thar this would happen? A No. Q. Okay. A That's why when [ got out ] was freaking out but ] OW fe pe fd Wal NO age we ets ~l toy: 1 i 2 happened and 7 told her wha? happened and she said oh. it’s okay. He did that to one of my other frtends | brought here. And | was like and you let him do that and still got me in there’? And she's dike oh, it's okay. You got $200. Does it matter? | said did you have te do that? She said no. Twas fike all right, then you don't know how it feels. Page 10) ea) A Umni, then {inaudible.) No. | krow what it is. 3G Q Okay, Did you visually see his penis? i? A Ub-hub. Yeab. “48 Q Would you say it was circumcised or uncircumcised? |- : 73 A [would think it would be circumcised but J tned .23 didn’t want to see what was actually happening. , igh A tle came. a. gue A No He didn'task me foranything. Like [ think didn't even say anvthing to her and then she asked me what : ‘ $ Lao Q Okay. How long would you say this session lasted? Page 12 4. wal She's like let's just zo shopping and stuff and I was Itke 2 no. 2 Q Okay. During this time that this was occurring, 4 he was jerking off you said? 3 A Uh-huh. ic (Q Okay. What does that mean to you? 1 mean like is = it something that -- do you know whal masturbation is? g A Yeah. 2 Q Is that what you consider -- iG A Yeah as Q Okay. Did you -- I'm sorry. Le A That's okay. Q De you knew what a circumeised and uncircumcised 24° penis 1s? not to look. Q. Okay. AN dowas kind of just like locking away because | Q Okay, You said that he had Hnished. Q Okay. é A Because he was dike a bie sigh of relief like he had been done and he just got right back wp and -- Q De you know where he came on? Was it or the iowel? Was it on himself? On the bed er -- A Tibink it was on the towel lilce nght between his ees probably. 3 Q Okay. As] told you before and | explained to % yorr mom, what he did was wrong, okay? Sf A Ub-huh. 12 Q Cwant to reassure you an that, Okay? Atany point did be ever ask you to leave your phone number or -- yee y on he asked ine my name in the beginning. Zo Q Po you have any formal massave training? 4 A No, That's why | thought (inaudible). J. Consor & Associates Reporting & Transcription ate 561.682.0305 98ae64ed-fabt-461a-b5d2-be85289cc56a 01913 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012349

c™ Page la: Fage 16 1 A Probably like around 45 minutes. - DETECTIVE RECAREY: Okay. Can you think of } 2 Q Forty-five minutes? Okay. og anything else? 3 You said he wanied to see you again. Did the 3. BY DEFECTIVE DAWSON: 4 blond hair lady try to take your information or -- 4 Q Was he im good shape? Was he a blob? 5 A We said oh, well, | think eave my 5 A He was old but he wasn't as muscular or anything & secretary your name and number and smffandT'dliketosee ~ 6 Jike thal. He was like a regular old guy. 7 you again and -- “ BY DETECTIVE RECARFY: & Q Did anybody from the house ever call you again? . 8 Q Did he have any accents or anything or -- 9 A Hub-huh. a A Huh-huh. Ne. 10 QQ Nobody ever called you? 18 Q Did he ever introduce himself to you? Lah A No. “ha A No, That's why E don't know who you're talking 1a Q Okay. So you only went there that one time? '2 about. | guess | heard that name in front of 3 A Yeah. (Inaudible) took notes on his name er anything. 14 Q Okay. Is there anything else you'd ke to add? Q I know this is difficult for you and } know it was 15 A Yes. There was another girl that tike I -- difficult from talking to vou the other day and il’s 16 there were other mumors ike they were partners in doing “16 difficult talking to you now. Lv that. a A Uh-huh. 14 Q Who was that? Dlg Q But I've talked to a lot of people and f really 1 A. This i fm not. I'm not quite sure. iS appreciate you talking to me ahout this. 2G My brother would probably know because she's older than us | 20 A Ub-huh. 22. becanse she met her at Publix afterwards anc vent 2 and gave her some money. | think they had to shure the $100 | 23 that they did. (Inaudible} a hundred bucks. And then I A No. 1 heard another thing at my school that there was fike a numer DETECTIVE RECAREY: No? [nr going to go 25 about this other girl it happened to. | just didn't sav eee ahead and conclude this statcment. ‘The ime by my Q Is there anything else you'd like to add to this statement? By tm anythurg because | didn't want anyone te know about me. 1 walch 1s 3:25 pun. 2 Q Do you know who the other girl was? z (Thereupon, the interview ended.) 3 A Ycould ask. is se 4 Q > No. Don't worry about it. 4 3 A Okay. i) 5 Q Did he know you went oI 6 3 A i don't think he knew anything about me. 6 2 Q Like the questcons that he asked vou in trying to 2 2 20) get to know you, what kind cf question I mean other than (he LG 3.1 sexual questions? lL Wes A He didn't really ask me -- oh, wait. he asked me Jif £3) what school Pwent to. He was just asking ine like how | is ié felt because you're good at massaving. Ginaudible) how Twot - 14 23 om the business. | thought yeah. that'd be coel. And he LS 1& ined to ask me se do vou have a boyfriend, what do you do; 1.4 1? for fan. Pretty much like it was kind of weird how often “4? L8 Gnaudible). How do you like to have sex. Oh. do you like + 18 193 i} when peopie bke touch your boobs. Tsaid no, I don't 19 “20° really bke when people touch my body because nishy und 28 finaudible) dot let anyone touch my boobs anyway. He did 2 1 it, a QO Ohay. 73 A But he kept asking me like abeut his nipples. 24 25 He's like ch, that feels so goad like -- aS J. Consor & Associates Reporting & Transcription 561.682.0905 98aeb4ea-fabf-461a-b5d2-be85289cc56a 01914 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012350

Pays 18% CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA) COUNTY OF PALM BEACH ) 1, Sandra Rossi. Court Reporter, State of Florida at Large. certify that | was authorized to and did stenogrephically report the forgomez proceedings, and that the transcript is a true and complete record of the tape as listened to by me. Dated this 30th day of January. 2007. Sandra Rossi, Court Reporter 0 iFade 28 4 ' tr J. Consor & Associates Reporting & Pranscription 261.682.9905 98ae64ed-fabf-461a-b5d2-beB5289cc56a 01915 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012351

TAB 8 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012352

IN RE: J&FFREY EPSTEIN DRAFT TAPED CAR INTERVIEW ii 02505 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012353

(Thereupon, the following interview was had:) MS. ROBSON: -- say anything to you about this (inaudible), nght? BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Q You know we're nol going to argne again. We're not gomg lo keep much from you. A {just don't want to rat anybody out. I’m not an 9 idiot. Came on. now. 10 QQ Thal wasn't more of a ratting out. It was more of ll oa-- 12 Complaint? 13 You got it. (inaudible.) You're a sinart girl. I'm not an idiot. Yeah. No. vou're not an idiot. Sol guess kanna. you know. (Inaudiblc.) I'm kidding I'm kidding. | don't even know who he is. A Idon't know. It’s such a big -- there's so many girls oul there that have worked for him it's not even funny. Q Really? _A_,_ Like I said. some bring friends who bring fricnds RH tse he Se OpDAS NM ho -t 22 23 24 So) Page 3; Who boing fiends, DETECTIVE RECAREY: Allright. You notified Jimmy? We w he DETECTIVE RECAREY: Give him a call, (Inaudible) 692 -- our ending mileape was 692323. I'm sory, 6923. Our begmning mileage to head pack southwest -- Gnaucdtble). Gnaudible} white Female Gnaudible) same mileage 6923 What vas that? UINTDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Fire truck. Ms. ROBSON: So when will L know what's going to happen” BY UNIDENTIFERD MALE SPEAKER: Q Well. here's the thing. What are you doing tomorrow? Well, no. aere's our goal We would like {9 at least tu talk (o -- help me. wsl on UNIDENTIFIED MALI SPEAKER 2: We want te ty! lo Inlerview some of these -- MS. ROBSON: (Inaudible.) BY UNIDENTIFIED MALLE SPEAKER: Q Right Tonipht. A Tonight t'm free so -- Q Okay. 25 BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: ar) ws Ww far r (oe) oN rR No No UNIDENTIFIED MALI SPEAKER: | notified Jimmy; SoA nom tk wpe ye pe RR ow a dH um fon Oo Rs an) Bho ND om WwW ran) from college and stuf. QQ. Temorrow yor're working? A ‘Fomorrow } go to school from 12 ta 4. BY ENIDENTIFIFID MALE SPEAKER. Q) Uh-huh. A Wednesday I go to (inaudible). Q Well. tomorrow whal are you doing after 4:00? A Nothing. Q Okay. BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: QQ Do vou have to po to work? A (Inaudible) Thursday BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Q. Okay. We would prefer to do it sooner than later and our, our request from vou at ths pomt as we move along as really for vou to make that phone call and introduce us and say, vou know, these are the detectives from the Palm Beach Pole Department. Uye told them evervihing. They're on their way lo your house. Do vou know these girls’ schedules by chance or anvthing like that? Do they sill go to high school? A Well, BBBBRil goes to high school, She's a senior. Q Okay. And that's. that’s who we want to speak to tomehbt. From what youre telling us, we're confident 25 will not be going and talking to Jeffrey. Depending on how : Page Sf that goes we night pive you g call and ask you to make another phone call for us. [f we could break out the list as we drive, make sare we have a little order of obviously based on what vou're saving, should be the last on our dist. We don't know if she's still -- DEPECH VE RECAREY: [RE she’s in Orlando. We can do that one ever the phone. BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Q) Now didn't vou sav she was back though? A TBR s back. 1 don't know if she has class tomorraw but I don't know if she felt already or not. Q. What kind of class? |s she in college or something? A College. Yeah. she’s up in Orlando. T don't : know. She might hive already daft, What ix today?) Monday? | QQ Yeah A Ob. well she might have afready feft todas. She had class today. Q. Oh. today. veah. A Yeah, she does. Verv rarely just to see her parents and stulf. [ike she lives up in Orlando, She might come back once a menth on the weekend to visit her parents. Q Now do vos talk to at all or net really? A {hung out with her last night. She came dewn 2 (Pages 2 Lo 5) 02506 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012354

Nom Go Oop Ww wo ~~ aowmip Wwe a Do OoVan 2 ree wow @. 16 Ll? 13 19 20 21 99° ee 23 24 25 Q Uh-huh. : 9 A But-- i 2 Q That was Suaday night. So she was around just . 3 last might. i 4 A She was around last night but. like I said. J : don't -- she might be still here. she might be upin Orlando ; 6 now. i 7 BY DETECTIVE RECAREY- : 8 Q Okay What aboufiP 3 A Oh. E don't like her. 7 don't like her. What i 10 about her? She never worked for. she never worked for | 11 Jeffrey bul she's been te his house before. She knows about : 12 it. Knows about everything that went on. She was the one ; 13 thai was with (inaudible). ; 14 Q Okay. Docs know Do they i15 know cach other? 16 A | dou't Know. ii? BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: :18 Q Then phonetic) tives like a couple blacks ,19 away from you, yeah? 2 A Yeah. BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: : Q Okay. Bives (inandibic.) A (Inaudible.) Q Okay. Why are vou afraid of Gnaudible)? Page 7: A Oh, ne. Fri not afraid you know whut it comes 1 dewn to? Ht comes down to this. Cin not afraid of any of 2 these girls but when [ almost rough I crits to 3 BS nova; brought mn to our group whieh was stupid 4 and instead of being mature about what happened three vears 5 ago. vas hke I'm going to kick vour ass. da da di. i: 6 and Twas like you know what? You taik a good pame. Leave | 7 me wone prelly much. It get ridiculous se | bad lo change : 8 my number and | saw her at (inaudible) one night. She : o Jumped me bora behind. | go vou didn't sav anything tome 10 all mghl and when she jumped me trom behind she jumped me | 71 so whatever. Garls are stupid. :12 BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 13 42) Alright. Whe else was on that list vou got i there? BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: Q Do you know a girl named IP il (Celular telephone discussion as follows:) DEVECTIVE RECAREY: Hello? Yes. Hey, Dablia. Okay. Right. Okay. Right. right. night riyht, nght, right, right. Well, that’s the casc, that's the situation. Right. Okay. Allright. Right. We're gonna meet with her tonight. (Inaudible.) Okay? All ripht. Bye. MS ROBSON: So what 1} not heme? BY DISTECTIVE RECAREY: QQ Ohav. Wellwwe'll trove an. BY UNEDLNEERIED MALE SPEAKER: QQ ‘That's our -- right now we want you to help us with an order of who in your mind (inaudible) vou're confident was 16 or maybe 37 when they went there, who prebably no longer bas anv connections with Jeff (inaudible) who ut least maybe a day might keep their mouth shut. A Okay. Well with I don't know how ald she is because she hed about her age. She hed lo me when | first met ber When | was 18 she lold me she was 18. (mnaudible.) Well she Jer her purse at my heuse and she luld me to make sure that | didn't took in her purse. When Twent through her purse | found her state license that said she was 16. So she hed to me about her age. | don't care about working for Jeffrey but -- Q We're looking for pirls that went upstairs with Jeff. A Yeah. Q Those three or four girls, whatever vou can, yout know, help us out with here, that is our goal in the next let's sav 24 hours. A Okay. QQ lstorea y OUE Page $f might be as simple as we give vou a call on your cell phone -- A And you call them. Q And you suy hey, we need you to call this girl and tel] Inere we are out front because that’s one thing we want tu do is figure out where these girls live tonight su that we can reach out te them and sav bev we're oulin front of so amd so's hottse, cam you pive her a call and let ber know that there's 2 couple of detectives outside and na, vuu're not Kidding. they reully are there and heads up. You Koow what] nea? A Yeah. QQ That's what we'd like to -- we've got a hal! hour there if we can make some details on thal so we're all on lhe same page. that’s what we're goimeg to do. So how many girls was on the sl that we started with? A You asked me if | knew on Q We dont know -- what we're going lo need is the Jius| names of these girls as well. So if you've got some last names. A don'tknew. | mean -- Q That's okay T mean -- what abun A P I've heard of a gir] named but | 25 don't know (inaudible), vou know? ‘To my knowledge I don't 3 (Paces 6 to 9) 02507 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012355

y 1 know. (Inaudible?) 21 / 2 Q No. (Inaudible?) : 2 ( 3 BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: = : 4 Q No. (Inandible.) 1 4 5 inaudible), Not that} know of Ihnowa : 5 6 girl ne 1 definitely Ginandible) not like i 6 7 that. i 7 8 Q (audible?) : 8 9 A Don't know. I know (inaudible). 9 10 BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 710 il Q Besides vho clse ended up upstairs with Jeff? } 11 12 A That's it. 12 13. Q Okay. 13 14 =A = 14 15 Q Okay. £15 16 A (Inaudible.) 16 17 Q Okay. Do you know their last names? ;1? 18 pom last name | don't know. } don't know i18 1g s last name. (phonctic). :19 20 And | know EB brother. 20 21 @i i I think the lasi name is | Ldon't $21 22. know if (inaudible) or anvihing because [ know like : 22 23 (inaudible). It might be BR i2 24° Q. (inaudible?) 25 A__ Royal Palm (inaudible.) oo Page 11; J Q Unaudibic’?} 1 2 (Inaudible.) 2 . 3 Q Do you know their phone uumbers by chance or do; 3 : 4 you have them in your phone maybe or -- i 4 C 5 A Let me check. Okay. What's the first girl? i 5 6 Q ' 6 7 A I know by heart. It's f | and ? 8 isa 8 ont cyen have in my phone. Q m 2 . 1 know hers by heart. | Area code How about p no, | don't know her number at al 14 Q 15 A (Inaudible. ) --H I'm pretty sure that's her number 16 Q 1? A becausc that’s ihe only ones [| have. 1g Q 2 A {know her brother's numbcr mC l don't have her number. 22 Q Is that his cell? 122 23 A (Inaudible.} 23 ‘ Q. Okay. (Inaudible) i24 A__ Uh-huh. (inaudible.) Page 127 Siciliano should have | (hey hung oul (0 Fw hang out. A_ Quine abit. And vou should also (inaudible) and E know the fitst three digits it's wmight b bit Phaven't talked te ber in a while. Q Seal we start with Jhomphs. based on what you Just said iSbouta Introduce us to HE who then could introduce us Lo -- A Vo Jen Reves. DETECTIVE RECAREY: Okay, | HE hanes oulwilh Obviously ‘in gone lo tuk to | BY UINTDOLENPERTIED MALI SPEAKER: Q Right. We want to avoid Do all costs. So our guestion lo vou ds thes group of three pirls -- A Phew all Know each other Q They Know each other A Thev all know each other, () von [I A ‘Yhev know P| They know everybody. It's ike a group of people who all know each other. Q Faith Gnaudib‘e) A The only one thev might not know is Page 13 Q All we've pot is a group of girls that -- A They've all heard of each other (inaudible). Q Now do they all go to school with cach other to your knowledge? A Some of them. Not all of them but sone of them still po to school together. Q EERE ces she still go to school? Q Unaudibic.) a t don't know if HE craduatca last A year or (maudiblc). YY I'm not quite sure. || might have graduated last vcar. Inaudible.) Q Okay. So they wouldn't have as much contact as the other group. (Inaudible) that goes to school. A (Inaudibie.} Q. My office is warm. The bullpen out there is luke wann. UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER 2: cald. BY UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Q Yeah. and it's a (wenty-year old building so nothing really circulates as wel! as it should that old but Cinaudible) in the car. If there’s anybody that we need to (inaudible). iS e' re not going to talk to. } love the 4 (Page Ss 10 £o 13) 02508 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012356

yo Wok WIN a a) RuUBWNHOWOND = IM NNM NNN Be iO BWNE Ow @ SMe ON NUsWNe nied — 12 13 14 16 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 4 yan chspatch. A couple of female: BY DETECTIVIE RECAREY: Q (hnaudible.) A Qnaudible) call her, open veur mouth to anv of them. - BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: (2) We will absolutely tell them that that they be obstructing an investigation. A The only one that’s going to open her mot would ith s probabl EEE The only one (inaudible) sav anything wouk! be Q Ave these girls, you know, are they embarrassed about what they've done? Would they rather nobody know Wl: it possible or are they out there Maunung it? A They don't care. Q Okay That was my question. A These girls don't care, For the most part Urey don't vare. QQ Oksy A Otherwise they wouldn't do it. Q I tend to agree but that dvesn't mean you everybody clse Qnaudible) get in on the action or Gnaudible) in general. A (Inaudibfe.) Q Jhear that: Oh, okay. Cnaudible) call addresses. After we're done with think talking about next? (Inandible.) Oh, okay. A Well. I don't know (inaudible) well. , Gnaudible) get some Page 1); hve were! @ We should probably try her since she would be feaving. You wanl to try -- Es off to college. A (naudible.) UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) necessary. (Two minntes of inaudible conversation.) (Thereupon, the tape ended.) 5 (Pages 14 to 16) 02509 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012357

TAB 9 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012358

TN RF: JBPPREY EPSTEIN TAPED INTERVIEW OF P| DIRAF T 02420 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012359

DANN Bw NE has KO ONE RON (Therenpon, the following interview w nd:) BY DETECTIVE RFCAREY Q Today's date is October 4th, 2005. ‘This is 1D number 7915 Detective Joe Reearey of the Palm Beach Police Department. Present at 1301 (inaudible) Road is Detective Michael Dawson of the Palm Beach Police Department. And can you shite your name for the record? how do vou spell your Jast name? Okay. How old are you! I'm 18. Taghteen, Okay. You're currently in college? Yeah, Okay. What college are you attending? Okay. And your dats ef birth is? Okay. Can you raise your right hand for me? Do you solemnly swear to lell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God? A Yes. Q Okay EE if you could tell me From the : ipstein. | know you have some information and we are conducting an investigation, We were here last mght, spoke with vour mom and dad. Tfyou ean : just start from the bepmning as to how you met him. A Okay Q And how i came about. A | (Audio 1:26) Q Okay. Tlow long ago was that? A Itweus probably about almost a year ago. Q Okay. Okay A of scared me when | went there so | just decided nat to go back. Q Okay. The first time you wenr with BEE aid yon go upstairs with him? : A No, J slaved down in the kitchen. (Andio at 2:03): Q Okay. Didlrel! vou that -- what was i entailed as 10 what had to be donc? A Well she said the first time vou go it's just like : amassage and she said like well, the more sou go supposedly | the more he bke expects and staris Mirting with girls and that’s what kind of like scared me. QQ Okay. I’ve sntersiewed other gitls and thev've the mass Pow RyInunewWwnek there's more fo that. More to the massage. Okay”? ‘That's why | didnt want more to be in here. And you can talk lo me about anything. Okav? Like } said, I've interviewed other people already who have tok me what Wanspired in that room. I know it's going to be difficult for you but... A Well, the hirst trme | went there ? did a massage and he was just asking mea Jot of questions. He seemed Dke really mice. And then he kept like staring al me and stuff, And ther like } did a massage and he just kept looking atr vas hike oh, you're bemp shy and I'm like yeu. c yeah And he was like why are you like being shy and I was like oh, 1 don't know. And then he would Itke change the subject and he started talking about other things. And then when we were done he said that if hike [wanted to come back and do more then he would like pay me more and then T would have tof talk to Haley and [ could come back. Q Okay. What kind of questions did he ask you as you Were massaging him? A He was asking about -- it was a year ago. | don't remember evervuune but... Q Right. A Fle was just asking me iP bad any friends that Page 5 might want to give a taussage and [ said T doen't know. ‘Shen he asked me about what ] wanted to de when T grew up and stuff like that and ] asked him what he did and he said he was like a scientist basically Q Okay. Pid he ever ask you how old you were? A No. {Audio at 4:08) Q No. Did he know that vou were 17? A No, I don't Uunk so. Q Wellit would have been 16 if it was a year ae, night? A) Wellithike was almost a vear age, (maudible) 17. Q. Okay. During the massage did you -- were vou naked or -- A No. Thad my clothes cn Q You had afl vour clothes on? A Uh-hoh. Q Okay. Did be touch vou in apy way? A He was like kind of like leaning towards it but | was hke you could tell [ was shy so E think that's why he didn't wy. But | heard about other girls that be -- that he gol ‘irtatious with them and he snade them take off (heir clothes and stuif. Q Okay. Whal -- that was the first (ame you went, right? HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012360 02421

BW Nw wa m oO Nes it 1? 13 14 lb 16 1? 18 aS) 20 °° ce 22 ye 24 Zo 19 1} lé 13 14 15 16 slay 18 13 20 22 23 24 25 A Yeuh. Q Okay. A Well ano. Jt was the second lime that! gave him apiassage. ‘The first time F went up with : 4 Q Okay, You went upstairs with Ey i 5 A No, ! was in the kitchen. : & Q You were in the kitchen. That was -- you only had : 7 iyo limes that you wenl there? : 8 A Youh, 9 QQ) The firsi time you didn't do anythmg but just sit i10 in the kitchen? i7 A Yeuh, 4? Q Who did vou sit in the kitehen with? °43 A Tle had a cook that was there and he had -- there i 14 was ke two other girls there that live wrth him. ilb Q Okay. Did you massage his back? Was he naked :16 when vou were massaping hn’? : 1? A Well. he bad like a towel around his -- his upper ils was (inaudible) but he had like a towel around him. i419 Q Okay. Did he ever remove that towel? 20 A No. 21 Q When vou were inassuging him he never removed the towel? A No Q Okay. Did you -- did he have vou touch his Page private area? 1 A No. No. J wouldn't du that. {Audio at 5:50) 2 Q You wouldn't do that? 3 Okay. Did he touch vou in your private area? 4 A No. No. 5 QQ No. 6 A Ee kept Ithe staring af ie and Like, 1 don't knesw, a Tyust felt uncomfortable and] left. But] heard other & stories that like -- S QQ Right. Pm concerned with vou | know about : 10 other stories and I’ve interviewed other people have told me f 11 different things. ‘Vhat’s why I'm Uving te find out what 12 happened tu vou. Okay? 13 A Uh-huh i414 Q You're the viernn in this so that's why Tia using :15 to Fmd out what happens to vou. 16 A Uh-huh. :17 Q Okay? Who teak you upstairs to the moon? :18 A This oir that hives with him. : 19 Q a So Bok: vou up? : 20 A :Z1 Q io she tell vou anything? )id she say anvihing? 122 A Huh-huh. There's a massage lable and she just 223 laid a towel down and she said that Jeffrey will be out for i24 his massage. :25 like, you know, Eke Q Okay. Have vou received any massage tuning? A No () No fhave to ask. Was one of the two girls that was in the kitehen wath you? A Yes. (2) Okay, Did vou ever go back to his house? A Well. 1 just went there vice. () Right A After that -- Q Alter that you've never come back? Never went back? How much did vou receive for the massage? A ‘Iwo hundred. Q You received 200. {Audio at 7:43) Okay. Did I explain to you what ¥ as going to be invelved? A She said the first Gme vou go there vou pretty much just give a massage, but the more you go there like the mare he expects. And that's it. That seared me. Q That's what seared you? BY DETECTIVIE DAWSON: QQ) Pal she say (inaudible) or did she Gnandibie -- A Sav didn't have to say thesactly but she implied cing your clothes ulf and stuff like : Page G thal. BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: Q Okay. So you didn’t remove any of vour clothing? A No Qo. What were you wearing?) Can you remember? A Edon't knew [twas along time apo. | don't remember enactly. Q) Okuy. A T don't want lo tell you wrong. QQ TRnow. And Pknow vou already told vour moni what happened. And hike | said d know thos is hard for veau but... A dasas just scared. P just didn't want my name to hke -- Q Dovtworry, Youre not the only person [ve talked to. Okav? There's a tot of people that I've talked te and I'm going to talk to. Yow did vou gel to his house? A) Wih Q. Naley. m the kitchen. A Yeah, Q What about the second lime? A The second ume ! drove and she came with me. Bevanse [ didn't want to -- took vou the first time and you sat 3 {Pages 6 to 9) 02422 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012361

aa DINO fb We 9 10 il 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 wo 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q You drove. A Yeah. (2. Okay. What is it vou drive? A Lused to have a Cavalier. Q A Cavalier. Whal color? A Red. Q Okay. Can vou describe to me what Mr. Epstei looks like? Jeffrey looks like? A He's tal! and he has like grevish/black hair and he usually wears like glasses and he has bluc eves. : Q Okay. When you massaged him. you massaged his! back area? : No. Can you describe what his body looks like? He's not fat but he's not like thin. He's like normal like average. A Yes. And | did his fect too. Q And his fect. Okay. Did vou do his leps? A Yeah. like hts calves. Q His calves. Thigh arca’? A No. (9 No. His chest area? A No. Q A Q Average? Okay. Is he hairy? Is he not hairy? _Q Alte bit? A liule bit he's got hair on his Page Vt: back’? A Yeah. Q Yeah? How about hair on his chest? A Um-- Q You don'tremember? Okay. He did not touch vou inappropriately? A No. Q No. Did he masturbate? A No. Q No. Do you know what masturbate means? A Yeah. : Q Okay. Why don't you tell me what it means just so} I know so you know. A Plaving with vourself. i QQ) Okay. Okay. E have to make sure you understand : what i nicins. : A Yeah. Q. Okay? J know it's difficult, He didn't touch himsclf - A No. Q -- while you were massaging him? A No. Q No. Is there anything cise you'd like to add? A No. I mean I heard of other stories that he did DOMIH HAWN HY 11 :12 :13 :14 16 19 20 :22 25 QO Right A -- the stories that | heard. Q Rogbt Well. a lot of peeple that ve been talking to are about your uge and a couple younger than vou. So that's the part that | have serious problems with. A Yeah. DETROFEVE RECAREY. Do vou have any Questions? BY DETECTIVE DAWSON: Q Did vou see any others -- when vou were there you said vou talked to twa pirls in the kitchen. ‘he second ume vou went, vou went with -- A Paley. Q Haley. Were there any other pirts there? A Yeoh, there were the same ove girls that were there, QQ Sante (wo pirls? Okav. A Tm pretty sure they like live and travel with hin. DETECTIVE RECARLY: Okay. Ali right. Well at this time I'm gomg to conclude this statement. its P45 am. (Thereupon, the interview ended.) (Pages 10 to 13) 4 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012362 Page 12}: Page 13 02423

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IN RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN VZIDEOTAPED INTERVIEW as 060ml 02528 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012364

1 (Uhereupon, the following videotaped interview was 1 2 had:} : 2 4 BY DETECTIVE RECAREY: DA 5 Q. Allnght. Pappereciate you coming down again. 25 6 Altyight. The reason why T asked you lo come down was that! & 7 Tm nvestigating a case m winch my investigation, | i 7 8 beheve thal vou have information on Jeff Epstein. Okay’? : 8 9 A Okay. : 9 10 (9 First of all, before we even begin, Jet me just 1G 12 swear vou, Okav? Raise your right band forme. Doveu fit 12) sdlenmly swear te tell the uth, the whole truth and 212 13° nothing but the truth so help veu God? 13 14 A Yes, de. :14 15 Q. Okay. Do vou understand what tm saving? 1s 16 A Yeah, :16 17 Q. ] know veu're Spanish, i17 18 A Vknow Yeah. 18 19 Q > Tecan speak Spanish. :1¢ 20 A Yeah. i ge 2 Q. Allmght. [First of all, do vou remember Jett? : 21 22 A Yeh. i22 23 Q. Okav. Lives on [i] Brillo? i282 24 A {No audible response.) i 25 Q Okay. Why don't vou tefl me frem the beginning Page 3 : L how vou met him. Pa 2 A Okay. Itwas something in high school. Everybody 2 3 was like trying to make maney and at the time | had two jobs 3 4 Tpuess. That was like twe years ago. : 4 5 (About bvo years age? 5 6 A. Yeah. : 6 7 Q When vou first met him? i 7 8 A {Ne uudtble response ) 8 3 (QQ Okay. ig 10 A Yeah. [was 17. :10 Ll Q You were 1? then? : 11 12 A UW teluh. (Video at 1:37) i412 413 (2) What is dt that you were told vou would have to i143 14 do? 12 LS A Give him a rassape 15 16 QO Okay. : 16 1? A That was it i 17? 28 (Okay Who tovk you there? : 18 i9 A Her name i :19 29 Q Okay. Allright. And do vou have any formal 20 21) massage training? i 21 22 A No. 22 73 Q No. Did -- so BB 00 vou there. 223 24 A || didn't take me there. JJiook one of my 124 i) Page 4|- a couldn’ltike me. QO oOkn Ei A oe Okay. When you gol there. whot Q happened? A It sevens really weird, the whole situation. “There were more irs in the house and then they just saw me po upstairs. thes show me (be room, i was a massage room. Pretty nenmal Then he came und, you know, [ give him a Massage. Q Oke. [ve talked to a lot ol girls and a lot of girls have told me different things. A Uh-huh. Q Okay? So}'m very aware of what happens when vou provide a massage. Okav? A Yeati Q When you vot to the house you went here with A Yeah. Q. Okay. low did you come into the house? De yeu remember? A What do vou mean? Q Did vou ge into the front door? A Yeah. Q Did vou come through the garage? Page S|} A Well. when you vo inside there's like a door. 1 don't know if it's the front door. 1 don't know. QQ Isit a wood door? A A wood door, veah. Qt ts a wood door? A_ It's probably the back because it goes through the krichen. Q it goes through the kitchen? A Yeah. Q Okay. And you were brought into the kitchen. right? A. Yeah. QQ Who was in the kitchen there? A Oh. my God. it’s so long ago. Q So long ago? A Yeah. Q Okay. A I don't remember. Q Dovou remember any of his assistants? A Q ? A She was the one. Q She was the one that you met with? A And there was the one that cal] me and I told her { wasn't going to do it anymore. i think her name was 2 (Pages 2 to 5) 02529 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012365

Onn bd WwM re gol P Okay So when you come rite the house, : 2 you go mito the kitchen, you meet with some people there whe | 3 takes you up -- i 4 A Wii 5 Q You met with |g : 6 A Yeah. Therfkay sit down and tell sit down 7 and everything § go and call Jeffrey. That's what £ was : 8 confused when you say Jelf [don't know any Jel And 9 then she takes me upslits and stays there and Faith TO stays there like all the gme white I'm upstairs pil Q Okay Okay. Soljhakes vou upstairs. Did 12 you use the stairs -- : 13 A Yes. , 414 Q -- lo go upstairs? 25 Okay. De vou recall anything weird when you were | 16 going up the stairs? 217 A The pictures. 18 QQ Ohay. Pictures of what? :19 A Naked people. i206 Q Naked people. Okay. Okay. She brings vou inte i21 this you said it was a massage room? : 22 A Yes. Q Is Jeffrey aiready there? A No. Page Q No? Whit did vou do next? 1 A [sit down there and she tells ine just wait a i 2 second. Then she comes back and we put like the little bed = 3 for the massage and she's Dke okay, thete’s some lotions iq and he'll be right out. a) QQ Okay. 1 6 A Then he comes in, hes tike okay. Then he knows FF my tame already. [im Chen he’s like okay, just a : 8 Thassuge. _— Q Okay. When he came in wos he ina towel? Was be 10 ina robe? : 11 A No. He had like clothes. Ie was rimming or il2 something like that. 13 (2 Itacd regular clothes on? :14 A Yeah. 15 QQ And he got on the table with the clothes an? 16 A No. He took his efothes off and ke puts like a 217 towel, :18 Q He puta little towel over hits. Okay. So at any :19 point did you see him naked? : 20 A Noten the first ime. 2] Q No, Okay. So he lays on the bed, massape bed i 22 with his towel and vou start massaging him. Do vou remember! 23 where you provided the massage? 24 A On the back and his legs. P25 PhD te Pula Page QQ On his back and on bis Jugs. Ohaw Plow were sou dressed when you were giving the massage”? A | wasm yeans and a T-shirt Q Okay. Okav. At any pont did be ask vou to Temove your clothes’? A Yeah GQ Okay. This is during the first massape? A Yeah And f say no, @ And vou said ne, Okay. Okay. Do yott continue wilh the massage? A Yeah [twas kind of weird that he asked me take my clothes off. @ Okav. So take me through then from there. You're domg the massage? A: dothe massage. After | finish he's tke okav. Actually he pay me before | start domy tbe massage Q Tepaid Tow much did he pay vou? A $200, Q $200. Atany ime daring when vou're giving him the massage, did he ever turn over -- A Yeah. QQ -- onto his back? A Uh-huh. . Fell me what happened after that. Fage Gr Qin hts chest area? A On his chest. yeah. Q During the time you're massaging him on his chest, is he touching himself? A Yes. Q Okay. LiNplain, explain that to nic. A Well, he start geting a litle excited about it amd he start iouching himself and [told him stop, and that, that wars a, Q Okay. When vou mean by fouchmg himself, you mean be was masturbating? A Yes. Q And vou told him ta stop? A Nod didn't tell him to stop. Q Oh. okay. Okay. Su while you're rubbing his chest, did he ever take off hus towel? A No Q So how would he be able to masturbate if -- A Well. Hike he had his hand under the towel. Q Under. So vou never saw him. Did vou eves see Inm naked? A No. Not the first time but] saw him like the second ine. Q Okay. Okay. Okay. So then von did your ma -- continued wilh your mass assage like on [ don't know how vou sav ib : 3 (Pages € ta HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012366

f™ 12 13 14 ) 16 1? 18 12 20 oe) 23 ayn up wher oa Peer eee ere be 2 fa bo POs wh oe ba bs A Yes. Q Okay. What clse happened after that? A Nothing elsc. After | was finished. Actualls like it was supposed to be an hour. But the first time it was just 30 minutes. Q Okay. The time you were rubbing his chest and he : was masturbating, did he evcy climax? A No. Q You know what ! mean by that? A Yeah. Q Okay. How did vou cond the massage? Did he just say that's cnough? A Yeah. Q Okay. Okay. So then you went back downstairs? A Yeah. Andi say to kay. I'm done. and we Icft. Q Okay. Did he ever ask you to leave your tclephone wumnber to call vou back if von wanted to work? He — for my phone number. He asked for your phone number? Yeah. Did Mvive him your phone number? (Nods head yes.) Okay. Did Hf ect paid for taking you? OYvrOrea d& Page ll: Now much did she get paid? $200 Q She got paid $200 for taking you as well) Okay. So tell me about the second time. A Second tine | don’t remember who took me. f never wenl by mssel!. | was scared to go bul it was Kind of like the same. Same situation than the first one but he offer me more Money just lo luke my shirt eff and 7 didn't do dtand he was the same. [le did the same things and then he took his towel oll Q Okay. A And Ike after Ie was done hke he never like got tothe climax. [never saw him. Q You never saw him’? A (Shakes head no.) Q Okay. You were going eT de A Yeah. That's how evervthing started, Q That's how everthing started? A Fail of the school knew about it. Q. Half of the school knew about it? Let me, let me back up fer a second, You go the second time. Who calls you to go back to the house? A CONN ae Ow nD bw Ne foe, Q calls vou Now you make an appointment toe Page 12 go to go work. A Yes. (2 Okay. The same thing, you go into the back door to the kitchen arca? A Uh-huh. Q You meet with A Yeah. And she takes me upstairs. Q She takes vou upstairs. Okay. He offered you more moncy to gel naked? A Yes. Weill. he told me just to take my shirt off. He didn’t sav anything clse. Q) Okay. Okay. And did you? A No. Q No. But that's not the only two times vou'd gone. You've gone more times? A It was like around three. four times and then I Just -- | was just scared that he was gonna do something. Did he ever photograph you? No. Not thal | know. Did he ever take videos of you? No. Okay. Did you ever give the massage with any other woman? A No, OpPoryD Page 12f massage? Any of the massages? A Once. Q. Onee. A Bulit was in my undenvear, ft was never completely naked. Q Okay. You stayed your bottanr?) Under wear? A And my top. Q And your tep So vou slayed in bra and panties” A (No audible response.) Q Okay. A | think there was one that | lake un bra off but That was it. (QQ) Okey. And each time vou went did he offer you more Monies to do more things? A Yes, Actually [ knew that because of BB ste (inaudible). || ] don't know her last name. Q Okay, A Because she ask me. she savs he'd offer more money if] have sew wath him and f said that's never poime io happen. There's no way I’m going to da that for money. Q Okay. Aml by having sex means intercourse or -- A Yes. F guess. 1 don't know, [ don't like talking about, Q Okay. The second time, did he offer you more 4 (Pages 10 to 13: 0253] HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012367

WDIHDUOA WHE Ps 8 ha WD BIN Yeah. $100 more just to take my shirt off. A Es Q Okay. And you said you didn’t do it. 2 A No. 3 Q Okay. Did he masturbate on the sccond time? 4 A Yeah. ss) Q And did he ever climax? 6 A Actually the second time like it wasn't that bad a because he was like on the phone all the time and so he 8 wasn't paying attention to what was going on. 3 Q Didhe ever at any point masturbate the second 0 time? 1 A No. Not that J remember. i12 Q Did he cver ask vou any questions or speak lo you | 13 or ask you anything? 4 A Well. he tricd to talk to you just to make vou 215 comfortable with the situation like where do you work and : 16 like how much do youn make at your work and then he sta 7 saying vou can make snore with me. but E didn’t feel like i 8 was night. 9 Q Did he exer know your real age? 0 A After a while like because somebody told him. 1 Q That vou were -- 2 A Yeah. 3 Q +17) 4 _A, Like li told us. we wore supposed to say we | 25 Page l were 18. 1 And who told sou that to sav that? 2 A (Video at £4:57)) 3 Q 4 A Was the ong who brought everthing to 5 & everyone al school. That's how we know about st. Then she took ors Mhook me. dio 15:02) Q Okuy. So each ume vou did go, did Bel money Jor Gikiny vou en = A Well, went wilh me twice F guess. And that was it. Then [wont «ish Q Okay. And did she meke money? Did Bp make money for taking you lo dim: ww ~! Burl didn't get = £17 moncy out of that. :18 Q. Okay. (Did anvbody ever help vou di a massage with : 19 hin? : 20 A No. sted me to do it with ber and I didn't :21 feel comfortable. : 22 Q Allmeht. Allright. Talk tome about the third 23 lime vou went. 24 A don't remember i was like kind of always -- : H was always -- il was the same. Q lt was the sume? A ht was the same. : Q Obviously more stuff happened because. you know. he paid you more to do more things. right? A Yeah. The third tiie it was when T took my stiri off. Q Staved with your bra or were you -- A Stayed in my bra. Q Okay. A And that was when he paid me 300. Q He paid vou 300 for that? A Uhb-buh. @ And same thing -- A Yeah. Q Hecame in. Was he naked again? A Yeah. Q. Okay. You pave hin a uassage and al that point was he stil playing with himsclr? A Yeah. Q) Masturbating? A Uh-huh. Q Okay. Do you know if at any point did he ever climan during this? A No. “ Penne e ce teneeesetnene Page 17} Q. Okay. Plow would the massages end? Would he just sav that’s it, that’s enough? A Yeah, he would just stand up and take a shower and could grab my things and feave. Q Okay. Allright. Talk % me about the part when vou got down to vour undere var A That was the Jast ime that] saw hun, Q When wis the Just time?) Wis thal -- A It was Jorg ago, More than six months ago. Q You sure it's potuny time sconer than thal? A | don'tremember | the | old didy't want to do itanvmore } was scared he was poing lo do something. Q Okay Why de vou say vou were seared he was geing, todo something’? A Beeanse | tke know he has a fot of girls and I don’ know, Tike he was offering nore money for it. Like E think be beught ber a car er something like that. She just gota car and she told me he got it for her. Q BDoveu know what kind of car it was? A think it's a Dodee cr something. QA Dodpe? A And then she fike then had money for anything and she ended up going to Eurepe ror hke the summer. Q Did she go with hin? 5 (Pages 14 to 17) HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012368 02532

o 1 A ( 2 was -- 1] didn't like the whole situation. N. 3 QQ Okay. Did he ever touch you” 4 A ¥cah, 5 Q Inwhat way? 6 A My back and my butt. 7 Q Did he ever. did he ever take oul any tovs? B A No. 9 Q Did he ever touch your breast arca? 10 A (Nods head ves.) li Q Did he touch your vaginal arca? 12 A Yeah. 13 Q. Allright. Did he touch you with his hands or 14° with something else? 15 A With his hands. 16 Q Okay. Okay. Was this over your undenvcar or 1? under? 1.8 A Over ny underwear. 19 Q. Over or under? 20 A Over. 2] €) Over. Did be ever insert his fingers in you? 22 A (Shakes head no.) 23 Q And as he was doing this, he was paving more 24 money? 2D A The maximum that he pai was 3 Page 1° 1 @ Three hundred. And that was the last time vou 2 weul? - 3 A (Nods head ves.) : ( 4 Q > When he touched your breast area. you didn’t have : K 5 a bra on? ~ 6 A (didn’t have a bra on. 7 @ You didn't have a bra on. And vour buttocks? OPS > 13 A 14 Q Ss A 16 O 1? A 1&8 9 19 area’? } don't know. We never tatk about it because | Uh-huh. Was thal over your pantics or under your pantics” Like | have a thong on so... You had thongs. Okay. AH right. Did he pull 2 you close to him’? Yeah. And all this while he was masturbating? (Nods head yes.) Did he have you touch him” No. Astde from the massage. touch him in his penis (Video at 20:22) Iuh-huh. No. Did you bring anyone else other than -- ——— Do you know last name? CO Mm Ua WB Wh PR “A A Q i No. No tdea. 2 (2 Flow cbout IR 5 (Im! 4 Q Does she also gu to 5 A Uh-huh, 6 Q And what about | 7 A Yes, 8 (Did vou receive monies for inking | om 9 A : Q Did vou reccive money for Jor - 212 A I don'tremember. Pn pretty sure | didn't. :13 (2) Okay, When was the last ume you had contact with :14 apvone from the house? ils A Well, J don't know because she told me they were 216 poing to New York the last time we tulked. The last ime | P17 went, 18 Q What's a while ago” :19 A Probably two months or more. z Q Who called you? A Q And she said thal she was going where? A Thev were pong to New York, Q New York? Nobody else from the house has called you Co say the police are looking mo it? Page 215 (Shakes head ne.) Okuy. Tins case is basically an investigation, an open mvestigation. so f appreciate it what we discuss stays here. Okay? A 8) Q A Q A Q A Q Uh-huh. Don't tell anvborly (hat we thatwe talked Okay? Oka Dats ou ever have any intercourse with bin? No, (Video at 22:41) No oraf? i Shakes head no.) Nounng? Nothing else. Okay. Tm potny lo show vou a praup of photographs, I'm goiy to show vou a group of six photographs. Okay? I’m trying, trving to sec if this is in these six photos. Okav? It's important that vou look at all six of them and be sure who you pick as the person as || Okav? She may or may not be in these six photos but it’s aMportant for vou to pick the right one, Okav’? No. Uh-huh. ‘Take vour ime looking al those six photos there. (don’t see her. She's not im those photos there? 6 (Pages 18 to 21) 02533 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012369

MS RH fp — rows ~ ON ts dro nm ta Wey AOA SB Wh Woy nus wre mt OD we te ta th QQ How would you describe A She would be here bul she’s She's avi! She looks like her bot I'm not sure Q. Okay. That's why J needed vou te be absulutels sare. fappreciate ¥ou being honest and not picking anvone out because [hat's important Yon know? You have my card, : night? A No, Pfostat, Like DP thank [left it atimy jeb. Q Okay. F gave your sister one. That's my card. A You went back to my house? Q Yeah, ] went by Coday. She's the one who pave me your cell) Your sister A You tell her what it was? Q No. No. | jest told her that vou were a witness and [needed to talk fo you. A Ishe going to know anv ibing about any ef this? QQ About the mvestipgattun? Eventnally I'm sure he will find oul about the investigation. | would appreciate iL iF anvone did contact you that you call me and give me Just -- basically let me know that somebody called vou A §€they calf me? Q if they cali von. 1s there anything else you'd like to add to this statement or -- A No. I'm just seared Uhat he’s gonna know Q. Why are vou seared of hin? Page 23; A That he's gonna do something. (He's not gona do ans thing What did he tell you he did Jor a living? A He was in brain sumething. He studied the brain. Q Fle's an mvestor and that's it. Justa meney investor “That's it T's rot -- haif of the things that he totd some of these people. be’s just a money investor. That's i Su don't be afraid. And if they do call vot, just call me and let me know A Mf they ask me lo come over there sbould 1 just savno? Like Pdontwant to vo Q You haven't been there’? A (Shakes head no.) QQ Whenos [be Just lime you said vou were there’? A Like three. four months ago. Loaper than that. don't remember, Q [think it's about three or four mantis apo. T think it’s three or four months apo because -- 3s there any thing else you'd like to add? A) Not really. Q No” Okay. L appreciate vou coming down. And let mv walk vou oul. A Ts something going to heppen to me? Q No. No. Ejust, like P said, vou're not in any trouble whatsoever. J just wanted to talk to you. | Re 7 0 thee 2 P= onwn NOD Boo BO BO re ™m on Bm Ws ee Page 24 apprectalc vou coming down. Okay’? A Thank vou. QO Ali right. (Thereupon. the interview ended.) HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012370 02534

TAB 11 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012371

U.S. Departnent of Justice Office of Legislative Affairs i I i tt srs a Office of the Assistant Attomey General Washington, D.C. 20530 November 9, 2007 The Honorable John Conyers, Jr. Chairman Committee on the Judiciary U.S. House of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 Dear Mr. Chairman: This letter presents the views of the Department of Justice (the Department or DOJ) on H.R. 3887, the “William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2007,” as introduced by Congressman Lantos on October 18, 2007, The Department has significant concerns, which are detailed below in a section-by-section analysis. The proposed legislation, as drafted, would eliminate the Department’s role in several important steps in the victim identification process, and thereby negatively impact our ability to ensure the safety of victims and their families, rescue additional victims, and apprehend and prosecute human traffickers; it would broaden the criminal statutes regarding prosecution in a manner that detracts from effective enforcement efforts and raises serious federalism implications; and it would unconstitutionally intrude into Executive authority. 1. Sevtion 102 The provision in subsection (e)(2)(B) authorizing the Director of the Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons (G/TIP) at the Department of State to interview victims should clarify that the Director is authorized to do so only with the consent of the Attorney General in any case where an ongoing investigation or prosecution may exist. Otherwise, serious issues could arise that would complicate or even scutile prosecution. For example, any statements made to the Director would presumptively have to be turned over to the defense and any statements that contradict statements made to law enforcement or prosecutors would be required to be turned over to the defense. 2. Section 103 DOJ finds section 103 unnecessary and duplicative of existing efforts and, therefore, opposes its inclusion in the bill. DOJ and other Federal agencies are already offering the types of assistance that are described in the section. Furthermore, the new subsection (a)()(3) would require the United States Government to provide “technical assistance to provide legal frameworks and other programs to foreign governments and nongovernmental organizations to HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012372

ensure that foreign migrant workers are provided protection equal to nationals of the foreign country.” This provision does not differentiate between legal and non-legal migrant workers, nor does it distinguish between forced labor and non-coerced mi grant labor. DOJ believes that any international standard that we promote must mirror our domestic standards. Similarly, the new subsection (a)(i)(4) could be read as encouraging countries to loosen their immigration laws, ‘something that the United States Government might not be willing to do. Subsection (b) amends the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. § 2151 ef seq) to provide specific assistance for anti-trafficking investigation and prosecution units in foreign countries. This subsection could be construed as prioritizing sex trafficking over labor trafficking. As stated above, DOJ believes that any international standard that we promote musi mitror our domestic standards, which prioritize both sex trafficking and labor trafficking. Further, the amendment to 22 U.S.C. § 2152(d)(a)(2) should include a reference to labor trafficking and should, therefore, read “including investigation of individuals and entities that may be involved in trafficking in persons involving sexual exploitation or forced labor.” 3. Section 104 The Department objects to the language in this section that specifies the groups with which the United States Government must consult and coordinate in offering assistance and protection to victims of human trafficking. Such language both places undue restrictions on the United States Government and could limit the Government’s ability to deal with some necessary groups. It has been the consistent practice of the Department to consult widely with a range of stake holders and others before designing a program of foreign assistance on human trafficking, Such an additional requirement in the statutory language is unnecessary. We suggest that the language be amended to read, “[i]n cooperation and coordination with organizations which may include the [UNHCR], the International Organization [for] Migration, and other relevant organizations....” 4, Section 105 DOJ recommends that subsection (a) also require that the effectiveness of assistance programs be measured based on best efforts to facilitate cooperation with law enforcement, along with the other criteria. 5, Section 106 DOJ opposes the bar in subsection (b)(1) against including cases in which probation or low sentences are given. Some of the most important cases are the ones against cooperating defendants that result in minimal sentences in exchange for information or testimony. Embassies Should have the discretion to take such situations into account when evaluating foreign government efforts to combat trafficking. The Department recommends amending section (b)(1)(B) by striking “shall not be considered to be an” and inserting in its place “shall be considered on a case by case basis to determine if it will be considered an” so that it will give the tL Secretary of State greater flexibility in evaluating the efforts of other countries. 7 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012373

The Department also objects to the new paragraph (11), which lists as a criterion for ascertaining whether the government in question has made “serious and sustained” efforts to eliminate trafficking “[w]hether the government has made serious and sustained efforts to reduce demand for commercial sex acts and for participation in international sex tourism by nationals of the country.” We object to this language because it is vague and will, by implication, require the United States Government to evaluate itself under this “serious and sustained” standard. The Department prefers the language that was added by the 2005 reauthorization of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which evaluated whether countries “adopted measures” to reduce demand, 6. Section 107 Section 107(a) of the Act raises separation of powers and Chadha concerns. Section 107(a) would add a new 22 U.S.C. § 7107(b)(3)(D), which would limit the amount of time that a country could remain on the Tier IT Watch List to two years, “unless the Secretary of State provides to the appropriate congressional committees credible evidence that” the country had taken certain steps to make significant efforts to counter trafficking. That provision further requires that “[s]uch credible evidence” shall be provided to Congress in a report. To the extent that section 107(a) purports to give congressional committees authority to determine whether the Secretary’s decision to exempt a country from the watch list is based on sufficiently “credible evidence,” the provision would give the committees a role in executing the law that the Constitution does not allow. “{O]nce Congress makes its choice in enacting legislation, its participation ends. Congress can thereafter contro! the execution of its enactment only indirectly—by passing new legislation” —that complies with the bicameralism and presentment requirements of Article I. Bowsher v. Synar, 478 U.S. 714, 733-34 (1986); see also INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919, 951-52, 958 (1983). To avoid this concern, we recommend replacing “provides to the appropriate congressional committees credible evidence” with “determines;” and replacing “Such credible evidence” with “Such determination.” Ts Section 108 DOJ opposes the requirement in section 108 to create a database “combining all applicable data collected by each Federal department and agency represented on the Interagency Task Force to Monitor and Combat Trafficking.” The database would contain law enforcement sensitive information, which would prevent the data from being accessible to non-law enforcement agencies, many of which are a part of the interagency task force, Furthermore, such a database would be difficult to create, particularly within the timeframe provided in the statute, because it would require information from multiple agencies that collect data in varying forms and levels of specificity, 8. Section 109 This section authorizes the President to establish an award for efforts against trafficking and directs him to establish procedures for selecting recipients of the award. DOJ opposes this provision, as it interferes with the President’s policy-making authority. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012374

9, Section 110 The Department opposes the statutory language in subsection 1 10(a)(1)(B) that specifically mentions the U.S. Government sponsored hotlines for reporting instances of- trafficking in persons. Statutorily providing for the names of the hotlincs would interfcre with the President’s policy-making authority to change the hotline structure at a later date. Furthermore, the Act, as written, misnames the hotlines. 10. Section 201 In section 201, the Department objects to the new subsection “(bb).” To the extent that such a subsection is necessary, a question that we defer to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the decision regarding cooperation should include the Attomey General in addition to the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, as it does in Section 201(b). DOJ defers to DHS in regard to subsection (a)(1)(E), although we would note that by removing the “unusual and severe harm” standard, victims will be eligible for a T-visa upon a lower showing of “extreme hardship.” The Department also defers to DHS in regard to subsection (a)(2), which would extend T-visas to parents and siblings of trafficking victims. As a factual matter, however, the provision should be amended to strike any reference to “as a result of the alien’s cooperation with law enforcement.” Traffickers threaten victims to intimidate them into compliance with traffickers’ demands and to retaliate for victims’ escape, not because of law enforcement cooperation. It is counter-factual to describe the pattern of threats and retaliation as linked to law enforcement cooperation, and disregards the fact that threats often only subside when law enforcement takes measures to secure the family or punish the traffickers and their associates who threaten victims’ families, Furthermore, it is unclear whether the reference to siblings encompasses both minor and adult siblings, and whether spouses and children of adult siblings would be eligible for a T- visa, : In subsection (b), DOJ opposes the new subsection (8)(B), which grants sole authority to the Secretary of DHS to consider whether “extreme hardship” exists. The new section, however, also requires consultation with “prosecutors,” which presumably refers to prosecutors at DOJ, since DOJ is the lead prosecutorial agency for cases involving human trafficking. Since these prosecutors are under the Attomey General’s authority, the consultation requirement should include consultation with the Attorncy General. Subsection (c)(1), which creates the new subsection (3)(A)(i) in section 107(c) of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA), should limit applications for continued presence to those being made by “Federal” law enforcement officials, Limiting the applications to those submitted by Federal law enforcement assists in the victim identification process. The Department has established a memorandum of understanding with DHS that ensures that the Department’s prosecutors are informed when investigators apply for continued presence. Furthermore, limiting the applications to those submitted by Federal law enforcement ensures the uniformity of standards in making the determination as to whether an individual is a victim of a HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012375

severe form of trafficking in persons and eligible for continued presence. Finally, Federal law enforcement involvement in the process allows Federal prosecutors the ability to identify patterns of human trafficking activity that might span multiple local law enforcement jurisdictions. For these same reasons, the new subsection (3)(B) should add “Federal” before “law enforcement” to limit the authority to request parole for relatives to Federal law enforcement officials. The new subsection (c)(3)(A\{ii) should add “endeavor to” after “shall” so that a legally actionable obligation is not created as to Federal law enforcement’s role in protecting the safety of trafficking victims and family members. While the U.S. Government makes every effort to protect trafficking victims, the statutory language, as written, could be construed to create a legally cognizable right and could lead to litigation. In the new subsection (c)(3)(A)(iii), DOJ opposes extending continued presence for the duration of a civil suit. It also raises the potential for abuse because of the lengthy and plaintiff/victim-controlled delays in conducting civil litigation. Furthermore, physical presence in the United States is not necessary for the successful maintenance of a civil action. Victims have other options to obtain status in the United States, such as T- and U-visas. DOJ notes a technical change to subsection (d), which currently has two subsection (2)s. DOJ recommends striking the second “(2)” and replacing it with a “(3).” I. Section 202 The Department opposes the language in section (a) that legislates the existence of a specific task force, such as the Trafficking in Persons and Worker Exploitation Task Force. DOJ recommends deletion of this reference and the replacement of the cue task force with “the i Attorney General.” DOJ also opposes the 120 day deadline in subsection (f) as unreasonable due to language barriers and translation needs. 12. Section 203 In subsections (a), (b)(1-2), and (c), DOJ opposes the language removing the Attorney General’s role in determining whether the relevant applicant has complied with reasonable requests for assistance, an important factor in the decisions regarding T-visas, and that the investigation or prosecution is complete. Because the Department is involved in its prosecutorial as well as its investigative roles, DOJ participation is critical in assessing assistance with law enforcement, and it is well-situated to assess whether a victim has complied with reasonable requests for assistance that went through investigative agencies outside DHS, such as cases investigated by FBI or DOL. Therefore, a joint determination is appropriate because of the number of different law enforcement agencies that may be involved in a particular matter. i HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012376

13, Section 205 DOJ opposes the addition of the new subsection 240.A(b)(6)(A) of the Immigration and Nationality 21 Act (8 U.S.C. 1229b(b)) unless the word “Federal” is added before “law enforcement official.” The same proposed subsection currently states that the Secrctary of the Department of Homeland Security “shall grant parole” to the relatives of trafficking victims. DOJ recommends changing this language to read “may grant parole” so the Secretary has the latitude to make an appropriate decision, There may be reasons pertaining to the circumstances of the relatives of the trafficking victim for which the Secretary should have discretion to deny parole, Further, DOJ finds it necessary to strike any reference to “as a result of the alien’s cooperation with law enforcement” for the reasons noted above. In subsection, (6)(B)(i)(1, DOJ opposes a statutory requirement that parole be extended during pending civil actions. As indicated above, this action would create a potential for abuse because of the lengthy and plaintiff/victim-controlled delays in conducting civil Litigation. 14. = Section 211 The Department opposes the change of the “and” in subsection (1)(A) to an “or.” Both the Attorney General and the Secretary of DHS need to be involved in the certification process. The current certification process is well-established and needs no statutory revisions. DOJ also opposes the change in subsection (1)(B), which would remove the Attorney General's authority in stating whether a person’s presence is necessary in cnsuring an effective prosecution. As the agency that prosecutes cases of human trafficking, DOJ’s involvement is vitally important. The | Department has the same concern with the proposed change in subsection (2). 15. Section 213 We strongly oppose the language in this section that inappropriately removes law enforcement from any initial determination of victim status or benefits eligibility. DOJ and DHS play a critical role in protecting the safety of victims and service providers. Any failure to involve Federal law enforcement immediately upon suspicion that a crime has been committed _ could threaten the safety of the victim, impeded efforts to promptly rescue victims still in jeopardy, and possibly man that the offenders avoid apprehension. DOJ recognizes the important of including HHS at the initial stages for the purpose of facilitating prompt delivery of the full range of available benefits and services to trafficking victims. DOJ will continue to work with DHS and HHS to ensure that interagency procedures afford victims of trafficking prompt protection and access to these services. : The Department further objects to the provision set forth in paragraph (G), which would require both Federal and state law enforcement officials to inform the Department of Health and , Human Services (HHS) of the existence of a potential victim, but does not require HHS, other Government officials, or non-governmental service providers to inform Federal or state law enforcement of such a victim. To the extent that such a notification procedure must exist, it must also include notification to the Attorney General and the Secretary of DHS, who bear responsibility for prosecuting and investigating instances of human trafficking. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012377

oS DOJ also opposes subsection (b). Since the passage of the TVPA, DOJ has been one of the principal agencies conducting trainings for a multitude of audiences, including task forces and Federal, state, and local law enforcement, on the issue of trafficking in persons. The Department also has experience in conducting training on juvenile victims through the Innocence Lost National Initiative. Effective efforts to combat trafficking must mobilize the expertise of HAS, DHS, and DOJ. DOJ also notes a misspelling in the new subsection (F)(ii)— “edibility” instead of “eligibility”. 16. Section 214 Section 214 of the bill authorizes the Attorney General to make grants to assist victims of severe forms of trafficking up to $2.5 million in 2008, increasing to $15 million in 2011. The Department of Justice already has authority to make grants for the provision of services for crime victims and does so at a level in excess of $250 million a year. Also, the authorization of yet another grant program runs counter to the Administration’s proposal in the 2008 Budget to consolidate DOJ’s more than 70 grant programs, Moreover, any provision purporting to expand or alter definitions of individuals of qualifying for victim benefits must include the requirement that a Federal law enforcement agent must declare the individual to be a victim of a severe form of trafficking in persons, and that the victim agree to cooperate in the investigation and prosecution, or that the victim be under the age of 18, DOJ opposes the consultation requirement in subsection (a}(1) with the Secretary of State for establishing programs to serve domestic, U.S. citizen trafficking victims. Such domestic authority falls outside of the mission and expertise of the Department of State. DOJ also opposes the mandatory consultation with non-government organizations (NGOs) regarding the provision of services, This creates a conflict of interest since many of the NGOs will apply for and could receive grants under the program. Finally, any section regarding the provision of victim services must also contain language that includes organizations that provide services to “juveniles subjected to trafficking, as defined in section 203(g) of the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2005,” which would ensure that the funds authorized to the Attorney General for establishment of grants will go toward the work and development of the Innocence Lost Task Forces. DOJ opposes subsection (b) because it provides Victims of Crime Act of 1984 funds to prostitutes implicated in violations of the Mann Act (criminalizing transportation of prostitutes in interstate commerce), Such persons do not meet the legal definition of “victim” as that term is defined in the law, unless the person prostituted is under the age of 18 at the time the crime was committed or the petson, through the application of another Federal statute or regulation, satisfies the legal definition of a victim. Such persons are already eligibie under the Crime Victims Fund Act to receive benefits. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012378

DOJ opposes section 214(d), as it could be construed to require the Attorney General and the Secretary of Health and Human Services to make legislative recommendations to Congress in violation of the Recommendations Clause. To avoid this concern, we recommend inserting “, if any,” after “recommendations” in section 214(d)(2)(E). Further, DOJ finds subsection (d) redundant. A thorough study of services available to domestic and foreign victims was conducted by the Senior Policy Operating Group in 2005-2006 and found few statutory differences between the treatment of domestic and foreign victims. Subsection (d)(2)(C) contains a redundant statement. Victims of sex trafficking are victims of severe forms of trafficking in persons. 17. Section 221 In subscction (a), DOJ opposes the proposed change o This change of law would create a strict ability crime, similar to 18 U.S.C. § 2423{a), with a similarly severe 10 year } is exceedingly Therefore, the suggested subsection (a) would create a rare circumstance wherein there is a substantial mandatory minimum sentence for an already unusual strict liability crime. Accordingly, this provision is likely to face significant legal challenges. DOJ opposes subsection (b) in its entirety, The proposed language is both over-inclusive and under-inclusive of human trafficking activities, and the language is vague, Moreover, the provision is unnecessary because section 1589 already prohibits many of these activities when they result in “serious harm,” whether physical or emotional, to the victim. The Department opposes subsection (f)(1), which would expand the Mann Act to include cases “affecting” interstate commerce. The Department does not require any additional statutory authority or expanded jurisdiction in order to continue its successful prosecution of human <* The Department’s record during the last six years demonstrates its success gating prosecuting trafficking and related crimes and in convicting and securing appropriate sentences for traffickers. This allocation between state and Federal enforcement authority does not imply that these crimes are less serious, but rather rcflects important structural allocations of responsibility between state and Federal governments. The federalization of these crimes would treat them differently than other serious crimes such as murder and rape, which are prosecuted at the state level. Kidnapping, similarly, is a Federal crime only when it involves transportation “in” interstate commerce. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012379

a, ry. Finally, due to the high volume of prostitution-related crimes, the Federal government lacks the necessary resources and capacity to prosecute these offenses. Therefore, to the extent that thi DOJ also opposes subsection (g), which would expand the sex tourism offenses to include those who travel for purposes of illicit sexual activity with adults. The Department’s current efforts with regard to extraterritorial offenses focus on child sex tourism, which are very demanding and resource-intensive cases, requiring gathering evidence abroad, bringing victims to the United States to testify, and coordination with foreign law enforcement agencies and foreign governments generally, among other matters. Any expansion of authority would be a distraction from those priority cases and would exacerbate existing burdens on investigation and prosecution. The Department believes that the addition of 18 U.S.C. § 2423 is unnecessary and that 18 U.S.C. § 2423 does not need to be amended. Should Congress create 18 U.S.C. § 2423A, DOJ believes that language should be retained in 18 U.S.C. § 2423(e) that allows the Government to charge attempt or conspiracy for 18 U.S.C. § 2423{a) crimes. Finally, DOJ notes that the definition of illicit sexual conduct needs to be updated to include production of child pornography. 18. Section 222 AS a general matter, the Department opposes the expansion of jurisdiction over offenses involving non-American offenders or victims that are committed outside the United States. The expansion of jurisdiction in this section would place an enormous strain on available resources. In addition, this new section’s jurisdiction description overlaps with 18 U.S.C. § 3271. Should the choice be made to keep the jurisdictional provisions provided for in this section, perhaps it would be more effective to expand section 3271. 19, Section 223 These provisions are not directly related to trafficking. As this section is related to aliens brought into the country for the purposes of prostitution, without a showing of force, fraud, or coercion, and the International Marriage Brokers Act (IMBRA), this bill is not the vehicle for this language. Furthermore, subsection (a)(1) removes the requirement from section 278 of the Immigration and Nationality Act that such conduct be done in furtherance of the importation of the alien. By removing this requirement, the bill extends the statute to cover all instances of “pimping” an alien. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012380

f 20, Section 224 This section misunderstands the purpose and effect of the model Jaw and should be deleted. The Department’s model law was never designed to supplant pre-existing state laws which target pimping, pandering, or prostitution, but rather to supplement those laws. At the time that the Department’s model law was issued, most states had comprehensive laws addressing prostitution, pimping, and pandering. However, most states did not have laws focused on human trafficking. The Depattment’s law was designed to raise awareness of the issue of trafficking and to encourage states to closely examine cases to ensure that cases involving fraud, force, and coercion are not labeled as prostitution offenses. The Department believes the law has been successful in accomplishing this goal. 21. Section 231 The Department opposes any statutory changes to the annual report, The change in subsection (1) is unnecessary as this language is currently included in the annual report. The information requested in the new subsection (I) would be excessively burdensome to gather. 22, Section 232 DO3 opposes this addition as unnecessary. Human trafficking laws that do not require the proof of force, fraud, or coercion, namely laws that concern minor victims of severe forms of buman trafficking, are already discussed at the annual conferences. To the extent that this provision would require the Department to discuss human trafficking laws pertaining to adult victims that do not require the showing of force, fraud, or coercion, such laws would not fall under the definition of human trafficking and the annual conference would be an inappropriate venue for the discussion of such laws. However, DOJ trafficking prosecutors utilize a wide range of statutes in addition to Chapter 77 offenses to address all criminal conduct associated with human trafficking. This includes the Mann Act, money laundering, visa fraud, immigration offenses, criminal labor violations, and extortion, in addition to other criminal statutes, Accordingly, DOJ traiming at annual conferences, the National Advocacy Center, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and field training with the Department of Justice funded Human Trafficking Task Forces and provided through the Innocence Lost National Initiative include discussion on the importance of using all available criminal statutes as essential tools in charging decisions. Thus, this section is unnecessary. 23. Section 233 DOJ opposes the change to section 206 of the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2005, which would remove the discretion of agencies in informing the Senior Policy Operating Group (SPOG) of grants. Such a change could be read as giving the SPOG oversight authority over grants. It also fails to take into consideration situations where gtant-making agencies may be unable to notify the SPOG of the grant. i 10 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012381

24. Section 234 The Department opposes subsection (a) as an excessively burdensome and unnecessary creation of a new layer of bureaucracy within our agency. The Department does not believe that there is currently any lack of coordination, and a new position could lead to duplication of efforts. Furthermore, subsection (a}(2)(A} incorrectly lists the Civil Division and not the Civil Rights Division. 255 Section 236 In subsection (a), DOJ questions the reliability of the congressional findings, especially with respect to the estimated number of victims and the inference that the lack of child victims is directly related to a lack of education individuals who may come into contact with human trafficking victims. Such findings, without a full body of evidence, are counter-productive. The Department also opposes subsection (b). The Attorney General should be involved in any program that focuses on combating child trafficking at the border. We propose that section (b}(1} is amended fo read “The Secretary of Homeland Security, in conjunction with the Secretary of State, Attorney Genera], and the Secretary of Health and Human Services.” Further, most of the children interdicted at the border are used for smuggling and are not trafficking victims. In subsection (b)(5)(D), DOJ believes that the proceedings for removal to non- contiguous countries are problematic because DHS needs more flexibility to handle gang members, terrorists, repeat offenders, and state offenders. Furthermore, the terrorism exception provided is too narrow to protect the national security interests of the country. We oppose subsection (c)(1) to the extent that it limits the Administration's ability to determine the best arrangement for custody or various classes of UACs. The administration will work with DHS, DOJ, and HHS to refine and modify current detention practices where necessary. The interagency process is the best forum to consider the various interests of unaccompanied minors and law enforcement and to develop and adapt policies thai, among other things, provide for the safety of all concerned. We look forward to discussing these developments with Congress in the future. The Department opposes subsection (d)(2) as too narrowly construed. There are numerous reasons, outside of the child proving to be a danger to himself or others, that require children to be kept in a secure facility, including the safety of the child from danger that is not self-imposed. In addition, the standard for placing minors in “secure” care is too strict. It requires the “least restrictive setting that is in the best interest of the child.” HHS only places 1.4 percent of minors in its care into a “secure” custody arrangement. This could mean that minors who need this arrangement would instead be housed with children who have no history of violence or criminal behavior. HHS needs more flexibility and there should not, therefore, be required to make an “independent finding” of the child’s danger to self or others. DOJ opposes the language of subsection (d)(3)(c) that would afford HHS access to law enforcement sensitive databases. 1] HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012382

The language of subsection (d){5} must be changed from “shall ensure.” This implies a legal obligation on the Federal government to provide counsel and a concomitant right on behalf of victims to government-funded counsel, which is inappropriate and would subject the government to litigation over the nature and scope of the purported obligation and right. The Department also opposes subsection (d)(6), which creates a guardian‘ad litem program. Such program raises serious conflict of interest concerns, and DOJ has opposed similar language in the past. Establishment of a guardian ad litem program is also unnecessary in that 18 U.S.C. §3509(h) already sets forth detailed pracedures which provide for court appointed guardians ad litem for children who are victims of or witnesses to crimes involving abuse or exploitation. Subsection (d)(7) may result in pnintended consequences due to this confidentiality section. To effectively combat trafficking, relevant information must be transmitted to law enforcement. Law enforcement is well-equipped to preserve confidentiality concerns, The Department believes that subsection (e) undermines the 1997 Special Immigrant ij Juvenile reforms and opposes turning this back over to the states, where it was inherently flawed. In section 236(j), the effect of the apparent retroactivity of the general applicability of these amendments to “all aliens in the United States before, an, or after the date of enactment of this Act” raises serious concerns about the provision of benefits and services and has the potential to create serious problems for the Department ix its implementation of the programs ( described im this section. 26. Section 301 DOJ recommends striking the 2 percent cap on funding for training and technical assistance that is in 22 U.S.C, 7105(b)(2)(B). The unique’ complexity of the trafficking issue and the level of coordination necessary to effectively serve trafficking victims requires much more 4 training and technical assistance than a typical OJP program. Striking the cap on training and technical assistance will allow OJP to better allocate the trafficking funds it receives. The change could be implemented by the following statutory language: “Paragraph 107(b)(2)(B)of Pub. L. 106-386 is amended by: “{1) inserting ‘and’ after the first semicolon; “(2) striking ‘(ii)’ through *;and’; and “(3) striking ‘(iii)’ and inserting ‘{ii).”” 27. Section 302 Section 302 re-authorizes the $5,000,000 appropriation for the Pilot Program that was first authorized by Section 203 of the 2005 version of this Act. The 2007 version, therefore, should add language amending section 203 of the 2005 version to provide that HHS does not have the exclusive authority for development of the pilot program. DOJ and DHS must be included in the development of this program to ensure that the ability of Federal prosecutors and HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012383

. law enforcement to gain access to these victims is not negatively impacted. Moreover, the Departments’ knowledge about these victims, their behaviors, and the dangers that are inherent | in providing shelter and services to them would be instrumental to ensuring the success of the pilot program. This section should also amend subsection 203(a) of the 2005 reauthorization to include after “Secretary of Health and Human Services”, “in collaboration with the Attorney General and the Secretary of Homeland Security,” Subsection 203(c) should be likewise amended. The Office of Management and Budget has advised that there is no objection to the presentation of this Jetter from the standpoint of the Administration’s programs. Sincerely, San A. x. AGL a Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General cc: The Honorable Lamar S. Smith, Ranking Member, House Committee on the Judiciary The Honorable Tom Lantos, Chairman, House Committee on Foreign Affairs — The Honorable Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Member, House Committee on Foreign Affairs C The Honorable Patrick J. Leahy, Chairman, Senate Committee on the Judiciary The Honorable Arlen Specter, Ranking Member, Senate Committee on the Judiciary The Honorable Edward M. Kennedy, Chairman, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions The Honorable Michael B, Enzi, Ranking Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions The Honorable Joseph Biden, Chairman, Senate Committee on Foreign Relations The Honorable Richard Lugar, Ranking Member, Senate Committee on Foreign Relations 13 fo HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012384

TAB 12 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012385

PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY TO DECLINE TO EXECUTE UNCONSTITUTIONAL STATUTES This memorandum discusses the President's constitutional authority to decline to execute unconstitutional statutes. | November 2, 1994 MEMORANDUM FOR THE HONORABLE ABNER J. MIKVA COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT I have reflected further on the difficult questions surrounding a President's decision to decline to execute statutory provisions that the President believes are unconstitutional, and I have a few thoughts to share with you. Let me start with a general proposition that I believe to be uncontroversial: there are circumstances in which the President may appropriately decline to enforce a statute that he views as unconstitutional. __ First, there is significant judicial approval of this proposition. Most notable is the Court's decision in Myers v. United States, 272 U.S. 52 (1926). There the Court sustained the President's view that the ' ' Statute at issue was unconstitutional without any member of the Court suggesting that the President had acted improperly in refusing to abide by the statute. More recently, in Freytag v. Commissioner, 501 U.S. 868 (1991), all four of the Justices who addressed the issue agreed that the President has "the power to veto encroaching laws . . . or even to disregard them when they are unconstitutional." Id, at 906 (Scalia, J., concurring); see also Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 635-38 (1952) (Jackson, J., concurring) (recognizing existence of President's authority to act contrary to a statutory command). Second, consistent and substantial executive practice also confirms this general proposition. Opinions dating to at least 1860 assert the President's authority to decline to effectuate enactments that the President views as unconstitutional. See, e.g., Memorial of Captain Meigs, 9 Op. Att'y Gen. 462, 469-70 (1860) (asserting that the President need not enforce a statute purporting to appoint an officer); see also annotations of attached Attorney General and Office of Legal Counsel opinions. Moreover, as we discuss more fully below, numerous Presidents have provided advance notice of their intention not to enforce specific statutory requirements that they have viewed as unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court has implicitly endorsed this practice. See INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919, 942 n.13 (1983) (noting that Presidents often sign legislation containing constitutionally objectionable provisions and indicate . that they will not comply with those provisions). While the general proposition that in some situations the President may decline to enforce unconstitutional statutes is unassailable, it does not offer sufficient guidance as to the appropriate course in specific circumstances. To continue our conversation about these complex issues, I offer the following propositions for your consideration. 1. The President's office and authority are created and bounded by the Constitution; he is required to act within its terms. Put somewhat differently, in serving as the executive created by the Constitution, the President is required to act in accordance with the laws -- including the Constitution, which takes precedence over other forms of law. This obligation is reflected’ in the Take Care Clause and in the President's oath of office. 2. When bills are under consideration by Congress, the executive branch should promptly identify unconstitutional provisions and communicate its concerns to Congress so that the provisions can be corrected. Although this may seem elementary, in practice there have been occasions in which the _ President has been presented with enrolled bills containing constitutional flaws that should have been HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012386

corrected in the legislative process. 3. The President should presume that enactments are constitutional. There will be some occasions, however, when a statute appears to conflict with the Constitution. In such cases, the President can and should exercise his independent judgment to determine whether the statute is constitutional. In reaching a conclusion, the President should give great deference to the fact that Congress passed the statute and that Congress believed it was upholding ‘its obligation to enact constitutional legislation. Where possible, the President should construe provisions to avoid constitutional problems. 4. The Supreme Court plays a special role in resolving disputes about the constitutionality of . enactments. As a general matter, if the President believes that the Court would sustain a particular provision as constitutional, the President should execute the statute, notwithstanding his own beliefs about the constitutional issue. If, however, the President, exercising his independent judgment, determines both that a provision would violate the Constitution and that it is probable that the Court would agree with him, the President has the authority to decline to execute the statute. 5. | Where the President's independent constitutional judgment and his determination of the Court's probable decision converge on a conclusion of unconstitutionality, the President must make a decision about whether‘or not to comply with the provision. That decision is necessarily specific to context, and it should be reached after careful weighing of the effect of compliance with the provision on the constitutional rights of affected individuals and on the executive branch's constitutional authority. Also relevant is the likelihood that compliance or non-compliance will permit judicial resolution of the issue. That is, the President may base his decision to comply (or decline to comply) in part on a desire to afford the Supreme Court an opportunity to review the constitutional judgment of the legislative branch. 6. The President has enhanced responsibility to resist unconstitutional provisions that encroach upon the constitutional powers of the Presidency. Where the President believes that an enactment unconstitutionally limits his powers, he has the authority to defend his office and decline to abide by it, unless he is convinced that the Court would disagree with his assessment. If the President does not challenge such provisions (i.e., by refusing to execute them), there often will be no occasion for judicial consideration of their constitutionality; a policy of consistent Presidential enforcement of statutes limiting his power thus would deny the Supreme Court the opportunity to review the limitations and thereby would allow for unconstitutional restrictions on the President's authority. Some legislative encroachments on executive authority, however, will not be justiciable or are for other reasons unlikely to be resolved in court. If resolution in the courts is unlikely and the President cannot look to a judicial determination, he must shoulder the responsibility of protecting the constitutional role of the presidency. This is usually true, for example, of provisions limiting the President's authority as Commander in Chief. Where it is not possible to construe such provisions constitutionally, the President has the authority to act on his understanding of the Constitution. One example of a Presidential challenge to a statute encroaching upon his powers that did result in litigation was Myers v. United States, 272 U.S. 52 (1926). In that case, President Wilson had defied a statute that prevented him from removing postmasters without Senate approval; the Supreme Court ultimately struck down the statute as an unconstitutional limitation on the President's removal power. Myers is particularly instructive because, at the time President Wilson acted, there was no Supreme Court precedent on point and the statute was not manifestly unconstitutional. In fact, the constitutionality of restrictions on the President's authority to remove executive branch officials had been debated since the passage of the Tenure of Office Act in 1867 over President Johnson's veto. The closeness of the question was underscored by the fact that three Justices, including Justices Holmes and Brandeis, dissented in Myers. Yet, despite the unsettled constitutionality of President Wilson's action, ‘no member of the Court in Myers suggested that Wilson overstepped his constitutional authority -- or HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012387

even acted improperly -- by refusing to comply with a statute he believed was unconstitutional. The Court in Myers can be seen to have implicitly vindicated the view that the President may réfuse to comply with a statute that limits his constitutional powers if he believes it is unconstitutional. As Attorney General Civiletti stated in a 1980 opinion, Myers is very nearly decisive of the issue [of Presidential denial of the validity of statutes]. Myers holds that the President's constitutional duty does not require him to execute unconstitutional statutes; nor does it require him to execute them provisionally, against the day that they are declared unconstitutional by the courts. He cannot be required by statute to retain postmasters against his will unless and until a court says that he may lawfully let them go. If the statute is unconstitutional, it is unconstitutional from the start. The Attorney General's Duty to Defend and Enforce Constitutionally Objectionable Legislation, 4A Op. O.L.C. 55, 59 (1980). 7. The fact that a sitting President signed the statute in question does not change this analysis. The text of the Constitution offers no basis for distinguishing bills based on who signed them; there is no constitutional analogue to the principles of waiver and estoppel. Moreover, every President since Eisenhower has issued signing statements in which he stated that he would refuse to execute unconstitutional provisions. See annotations of attached signing statements. As we noted in our memorandum on Presidential signing statements, the President "may properly announce to Congress and to the public that he will not enforce a provision of an enactment he is signing. If so, then a signing statement that challenges what the President determines to be an unconstitutional encroachment on his power, or that announces the President's unwillingness to enforce (or willingness to litigate) such a provision, can be a valid and reasonable exercise of Presidential authority." Memorandum for Bernard N. Nussbaum, Counsel to the President, from Walter Dellinger, Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel at 4 (Nov. 3, 1993). (Of course, the President is not obligated to announce his reservations in a signing statement; he can convey his views in the time, manner, and form of his choosing.) Finally, the Supreme Court recognized this practice in INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983): the Court stated that "it is not uncommon for Presidents to approve legislation containing parts which are objectionable on constitutional grounds" and then cited the example of President Franklin Roosevelt's memorandum to Attorney General Jackson, in which he indicated his intention not to implement an unconstitutional provision in a statute that he had just signed. Id. at 942 n.13. These sources suggest that the President's signing of a bill does not affect his authority to decline to enforce constitutionally objectionable provisions thereof. In accordance with these propositions, we do not believe that a President is limited to choosing between vetoing, for example, the Defense Appropriations Act and executing an unconstitutional provision in it. In our view, the President has the authority to sign legislation containing desirable elements while refusing to execute a constitutionally defective provision. We recognize that these issues are difficult ones. When the President's obligation to act in accord ' with the Constitution appears to be in tension with his duty to execute laws enacted by Congress, questions are raised that go to the heart of our constitutional structure. In these circumstances, a President should proceed with caution and with respect for the obligation that each of the branches shares for the maintenance of constitutional government. Walter Dellinger Assistant Attorney General Brief Description of Attached Materials HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012388

Attorney General Opinions 1) Memorial of Captain Meigs, 9 Op. Att'y Gen. 462 (1860): In this opinion the Attorney General concluded that the President is permitted to disregard an unconstitutional statute. Specifically, Attorney General Black concluded that a statute purporting to appoint an officer should not be enforced: "Every law is to be carried out so far forth as is consistent with the Constitution, and no further. The sound part of it must be executed, and the vicious portion of it suffered to drop." Id. at 469. 2) Constitutionality of Congress' Disapproval of Agency Regulations by Resolutions Not Presented to the President, 4A Op. O.L.C. 21 (1980): In this opinion Attorney General Civiletti instructed Secretary of Education Hufstedler that she was authorized to implement regulations that had been disapproved by concurrent congressional resolutions, pursuant to a statutory legislative veto. The Attorney General’ noted that "the Attorney General must scrutinize with caution any claim that he or any other executive officer may decline to defend or enforce a statute whose constitutionality is merely in doubt." Id. at 29. He concluded, however, that "[t]o regard these concurrent resolutions as legally binding would impair the Executive's constitutional role and might well foreclose effective judicial challenge to their constitutionality. More important, I believe that your recognition of these concurrent resolutions as legally binding would constitute an abdication of the responsibility of the executive branch, as an equal and coordinate branch of government with the legislative branch, to preserve the integrity of its functions against constitutional encroachment." Id. . 3) The Attorney General's Duty to Defend and Enforce Constitutionally Objectionable Legislation, 4A Op. O.L.C. 55.(1980): Attorney General Civiletti, in answer to a congressional inquiry, observed that “Myers holds that the President's constitutional duty does not require him to execute unconstitutional statutes; nor does it require him to execute them provisionally, against the day that-they are declared unconstitutional by the courts." Id. at 59. He added as a cautionary note that "[t]he President has no “dispensing power,'" meaning that the President and his subordinates “may not lawfully defy an Act of Congress if the Act is constitutional. . . . In those rare instances in which the Executive may lawfully act in contravention of a statute, it is the Constitution that dispenses with the operation of the statute. The Executive cannot." Id. at 59-60. 4) Letter from William French Smith, Attorney General, to Peter W. Rodino, Jr., Chairman, House Judiciary Committee (Feb. 22, 1985): This letter discussed the legal precedent and authority for the President's refusal to execute a provision of the Competition in Contracting Act. The Attorney General noted that the decision "not to implement the disputed provisions has the beneficial byproduct of increasing the likelihood of a prompt judicial resolution. Thus, far from unilaterally nullifying an Act of Congress, the Department's actions are fully consistent with the allocation of judicial power by the Constitution to the courts." Id. at 8. The letter also stated that "the President's failure to veto a measure does not prevent him subsequently from challenging the Act in court, nor does presidential approval of an enactment cure constitutional defects." Id. at 3. Office of Legal Counsel Opinions 1) Memorandum to the Honorable Robert J. Lipshutz, Counsel to the President, from John M. Harmon, Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel (Sept. 27, 1977): This opinion concluded that the President may lawfully disregard a statute that he interprets to be unconstitutional. We asserted that "cases may arise in which the unconstitutionality of the relevant statute will be certain, and in such a case the Executive could decline to enforce the statute for that reason alone." Id. at 13. We continued, stating that "[uJnless the unconstitutionality of a statute is clear, the President Should attempt to resolve his doubts in a way that favors the statute, and he should not decline to enforce it unless he concludes that he is compelled to do so under the circumstances." Id. We declined to catalogue all the considerations that would weigh in favor of non-enforcement, but we identified two: first the extent of the harm to individuals or the government resulting from enforcement; and, HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012389

~ second, the creation of an opportunity for a court challenge through non-enforcement (e.g., Myers). 2) Appropriations Limitation for Rules Vetoed by Congress, 4B Op. O.L.C. 731 (1980): In this opinion we rejected the constitutionality of a proposed legislative veto, prior to the Court's decision in Chadha. We opined that "[t]o regard this provision as legally binding would impair the Executive's constitutional role and would constitute an abdication of the responsibility of the Executive Branch." Id. at 734. It should be noted that the legislation in question was pending in Congress, and the possibility that President Carter would sign the legislation did not affect our analysis of the constitutional issue. We simply stated that, "if enacted, the [legislative veto provision] will not have any legal effect." Id. 3) Issues Raised by Section 102(c)(2) of H.R. 3792, 14 Op. O.L.C. 38 (1990) (preliminary print): This opinion also addressed then-pending legislation, in this case the foreign relations authorization bill for fiscal years 1990 and 1991. The opinion found that a provision of the bill was unconstitutional and severable. Regarding non-execution, the opinion stated that "at least in the context of legislation that infringes the separation of powers, the President has the constitutional authority to refuse to enforce unconstitutional laws." Id. at 53. The opinion concluded that “if the President chooses to sign H.R. 3792, he would be constitutionally authorized to decline to enforce" the constitutionally objectionable section. Id. at 38. 4) Issues Raised by Section 129 of Pub. L. No. 102-138 and Section 503 of Pub. L. No. 102-140, 16 Op. O.L.C. 18 (1992) (preliminary print): This opinion concluded that two statutory provisions that limited the issuance of official and diplomatic passports were unconstitutional and were severable from the remainder of the two statutes. On the question of non-execution, the opinion rejected "the argument that the President may not treat a statute as invalid prior to a judicial determination." Id. at 40. The opinion concluded that the Constitution authorizes the President to refuse to enforce a law that he believes is unconstitutional. 5) Memorandum for Bernard N. Nussbaum, Counsel to the President, from. Walter Dellinger, Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel (Nov. 3, 1993): This opinion discusses different categories of signing statements, including those construing bills to avoid constitutional problems and those in which the President declares “that a provision of the bill before him is flatly unconstitutional, and that he will refuse to enforce it." Id. at 3. The opinion concludes that such "uses of Presidential signing statements generally serve legitimate and defensible purposes." Id. at 7. Presidential Signing Statements 1) Statement by the State Department (Announcing President Wilson's Refusal to Carry Out the Section of the Jones Merchant Marine Act of June 5, 1920, directing him to terminate treaty provisions restricting the Government's right to impose discriminatory tonnage dues and tariff duties )I7A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents 8871 (Sept. 24, 1920) (Pres. Wilson): The State Department announced that it "has been informed by the President that he does not deem the direction contained in Section 34 of the so-called Merchant Marine Act an exercise of any constitutional power possessed by the Congress." Id. The statement also defended President Wilson's — ‘decision to sign the bill and noted that "the fact that one section of the law involves elements of illegality rendering the section inoperative need not affect the validity and operation of the Act as a whole." 5.Green Haywood Hackworth, Digest of International Law 324 (1943). 2) Special Message to the Congress Upon Signing the Department of Defense Appropriation Act, Pub. Papers of Dwight D, Eisenhower 688 (July 13, 1955): President Eisenhower, in signing a bill (H.R. 6042) that contained a legislative veto, stated that the legislative veto "will be regarded as invalid by the executive branch of the Government in the administration of H.R. 6042, unless otherwise determined by a court of competent jurisdiction." Id. at 689.- HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012390

a 3) Memorandum on Informing Congressional Committees of Changes Involving Foreign Economic Assistance Funds, Pub. Papers of John F. Kennedy 6 (Jan. 9, 1963): President Kennedy stated that a provision in the bill he was signing contained an unconstitutional legislative veto. He announced that "[i]t is therefore my intention .. . to treat this provision as a request for information." Id. 4) Statement by the President Upon Approving the Public Works Appropriations Act, Pub. Papers of Lyndon B. Johnson 104 (Dec. 31, 1963): President Johnson also found that a legislative veto provision was unconstitutional and stated that he would treat it as a request for information. 5) Statement About Signing the Public Buildings Amendments of 1972, Pub. Papers of Richard Nixon 686 (June.17, 1972): President Nixon stated that a clause conditioning the use of authority by the executive branch on the approval of a congressional committee was unconstitutional. He ordered the agency involved to comply with "the acceptable procedures" in the bill “without regard to the unconstitutional provisions I have previously referred to." Id: at 687. 6) Statement on Signing the Department of Defense Appropriation Act of 1976, Pub. Papers of Gerald R. Ford 241 (Feb. 10, 1976): President Ford stated that a committee approval mechanism was unconstitutional and announced that he would "treat the unconstitutional provision . . . to the extent it requires further Congressional committee approval, as a complete nullity." Id. at 242. 7) Statement on Signing Coastal Zone Management Improvement Act of 1980, Pub. Papers of Jimmy Carter 2335 (Oct. 18, 1980): President Carter stated that a legislative veto provision was unconstitutional and that any attempt at a legislative veto would "not [be] regarded as legally binding." Id. 8) Statement on Signing the Union Station Redevelopment Act of 1981, Pub. Papers of Ronald Reagan 1207 (Dec. 29, 1981): President Reagan stated that a legislative veto was unconstitutional and announced that "[t]he Secretary of Transportation will not... regard himself as legally bound by any such resolution." Id. 9) Statement On Signing the National and Community Service Act of 1990, Pub. Papers of George Bush 1613 (Nov. 16, 1990): President Bush rejected the constitutionality of provisions that required a Presidentially appointed board exercising executive authority to include, among its 21 members, “seven members nominated by the Speaker of the House of Representatives... [and] seven members nominated by the Majority Leader of the Senate." Id. at 1614. He announced that the restrictions on his choice of nominees to the board "are without legal force or effect." Id. 10) 7 A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents 377 (Aug. 14, 1876) (Pres. Grant): This is one of the earliest of many instances of a President "construing" a provision (to avoid constitutional problems) in a way that seems to amount to a refusal to enforce a provision of it. An 1876 statute directed that notices be sent to certain diplomatic and consular officers "to close their offices." President Grant, in signing the bill, stated that, “[iJn the literal sense of this direction it would be an invasion of the constitutional prerogatives and duty of the Executive." Id. In order to avoid this problem, President Grant "constru[ed]" this provision "only to exercise the constitutional prerogative of Congress over the expenditures of the Government," not to "imply{] a right in the legislative branch to direct the closing or discontinuing of any of the diplomatic or consular offices of the Government." Id. at 378. _ Other Presidential Documents 1) A Presidential Legal Opinion, 66 Harv. L. Rev. 1353 (1953): This was a legal opinion from President Franklin Roosevelt to Attorney General Jackson. President Roosevelt stated that he was signing the Lend-Lease Act despite a provision providing for a legislative veto, "a provision which, in HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012391

my opinion, is clearly unconstitutional." Id. at 1357. The President stated that, "[i]n order that I may be on record as indicating my opinion that the foregoing provision of the so-called Lend-Lease Act is unconstitutional, and in order that my approval of the bill, due to the existing exigencies of the world situation, may not be construed as a tacit acquiescence in any contrary view, I am requesting you to place this memorandum in the official files of the Department of Justice. I am desirous of having this done for the further reason that I should not wish my action in approving the bill which includes this invalid clause, to be used as a precedent for any future legislation comprising provisions of a similar nature." Id. at 1358. 2) Message to the Congress on Legislative Vetoes, Pub. Papers of Jimmy Carter 1146 (Jun. 21, 1978 ): In this memorandum President Carter expressed his strong opposition to legislative vetoes and stated that "[t]he inclusion of [a legislative veto] in a bill will be an important factor in my decision to sign or to veto it." Id. at 1148. He further stated that, "[a]s for legislative vetoes over the execution of programs already prescribed in legislation and in bills I must sign for other reasons, the Executive Branch will generally treat them as 'report-and-wait' provisions. In such a case, if Congress subsequently adopts a resolution to veto an Executive action, we will give it serious consideration, but we will not, under our reading of the Constitution, consider it legally binding." Id. at 1149. Historical Materials 1) Statement of James Wilson on December 1, 1787 on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, reprinted in 2 Jonathan Elliot, Debates on the Federal Constitution 418 (1836): Wilson argued that the Constitution imposed significant -- and sufficient -- restraints on the power of the legislature, and that the President would not be dependent upon the legislature. In this context, he stated that "the power of the Constitution was paramount to the power of the legislature acting under that Constitution; for it is possible that the legislature . . . may transgress the bounds assigned to it, and an act may pass, in the usual mode, notwithstanding that transgression; but when it comes to be discussed before the judges,-- when they consider its principles, and find it to be incompatible with the superior power of the Constitution,-- it is their duty to pronounce it void . . . . In the same manner, the President of the United States could shield himself, and refuse to carry into effect an act that violates the Constitution." Id. at 445-46. 2) Letter from Chief Justice Chase to Gerrit Smith (Apr. 19, 1868), quoted in J. Schuckers, The Life and Public Services of Salmon Portland Chase 577 (1874): Chase stated that President Johnson took the proper action in removing Secretary of War Stanton without Senate approval, in light of Johnson's belief that the statutory restriction on his removal authority was unconstitutional. In this regard, Chase commented that "the President had a perfect right, and indeed was under the highest obligation, to remove Mr. Stanton, if he made the removal not in wanton disregard of a constitutional law, but with a sincere belief that the Tenure-of-Office Act was unconstitutional and for the purpose of bringing the question before the Supreme Court." Id. at 578. Congressional Materials 1) The President's Suspension of the Competition in Contracting Act is Unconstitutional, H.R. Rep. No. 138, 99th Cong., Ist Sess. (1985): The House Committee on Government Operations concluded thatthe President lacked the authority to refuse to implement any provision of the Competition in Contracting Act. The Committee stated that, "[t]o adopt the view that one's oath to support and defend the Constitution is a license to exercise any available power in furtherance of one's own constitutional interpretation would quickly destroy the entire constitutional scheme. Such a view, whereby the President pledges allegiance to the Constitution but then determines what the Constitution means, inexorably leads to the usurpation by the Executive of the others' roles." Id. at 11. The Committee also stated that "[t]he Executive's suspension of the law circumvents the constitutionally specified means for expressing Executive objections to law and is a constitutionally impermissible absolute veto HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012392

power." Id. at 13. 2) Memorandum from the Congressional Research Service to the Committee on Government Operations concerning “The Executive's Duty to Enforce the Laws" (Feb. 6, 1985), reprinted in Constitutionality of GAO's Bid Protest Function: Hearings Before a Subcomm. of the House Comm. on Government Operations, 99th Cong., Ist Sess. 544 (1985): This memorandum stated that the President lacks the authority to decline to enforce statutes. The CRS argued that "[t]he refusal of the President to execute the law is indistinguishable from the power to suspend the laws. That power, as is true of the power to amend or to revive an expired law, is a legislative power." Id. at 554. Cases (not included in the submitted materials) 1) Myers v. United States, 272 U.S. 52 (1926): The President refused to comply with -- that is, enforce -- a limitation on his power of removal that he regarded as unconstitutional, even though the question had not been addressed by the Supreme Court. A member of Congress, Senator Pepper, urged the Supreme Court to uphold the validity of the provision. The Supreme Court vindicated the President's interpretation without any member of the Court indicating that the President had acted unlawfully or inappropriately in refusing to enforce the removal restriction based on his belief that it was unconstitutional. 2) United States v. Lovett, 328 U.S. 303 (1946): The President enforced a statute that directed him to withhold compensation from three named employees, even though the President believed the law to be unconstitutional. The Justice Department argued against the constitutionality of the statute in the ensuing litigation. (The Court permitted an attorney to appear on behalf of Congress, amicus curiae, to defend the statute.) 3) INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983): This case involved the withholding of citizenship from an applicant pursuant to a legislative veto of an Attorney General decision to grant citizenship. Despite a Carter Administration policy against complying with legislative vetoes (see Carter Presidential memorandum, supra), the executive branch enforced the legislative veto, and, in so doing, allowed for judicial review of the statute. As with Lovett, the Justice Department argued against the constitutionality of the statute. 4) Morrison v. Olson, 487 U.S. 654 (1988): The President viewed the independent counsel statute as unconstitutional. The Attorney General enforced it, making findings and forwarding them to the Special Division. In litigation, however, the Justice Department attacked the constitutionality of the statute and left its defense to the Senate Counsel, as amicus curiae, and the independent counsel herself. , 5) Freytag v. Commissioner, 501 U.S. 868 (1991): A unanimous Court ruled that the appointment of special trial judges by the Chief Judge of the United States Tax Court did not violate the Appointments Clause. Five Justices concluded that the Tax Court was a "Court of Law" for Appointments Clause purposes, despite the fact that it was an Article I court, so that the Tax Court could constitutionally appoint inferior officers. Four Justices, in a concurrence by Justice Scalia, contended that the Tax Court was a "Department" under the Appointments Clause. The concurrence stated that "Court of Law" did not include Article I courts and that the Framers intended to prevent Congress from having the power both to create offices and to appoint officers. In this regard, the concurrence stated that "it was not enough simply to repose the power to execute the laws (or to appoint) in the President; it was also necessary to provide him with the means to resist legislative encroachment upon that power. The means selected were various, including a separate political constituency, to which he alone was responsible, and the power to veto encroaching laws, see Art. I, § 7, or even to disregard them when they are unconstitutional." Id. at 906 (Scalia, J., concurring). HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012393

6) Lear Siegler, Inc., Energy Products Division v. Lehman, 842 F.2d 1102 (9th Cir. 1988), withdrawn in part 893 F.2d 205 (9th Cir. 1990) (en banc): The President refused to comply with provisions of the Competition.in Contracting Act that he viewed as unconstitutional and thereby allowed for judicial resolution of the issue. The Ninth Circuit rejected the President's arguments about the constitutionality of the provisions. The court further determined that Lear Siegler was a prevailing party and was entitled to attorneys' fees, because the executive branch acted in bad faith in refusing to execute the contested provisions. In this regard, the court stated that the President's action was “utterly at odds with the texture and plain language of the Constitution," because a statute is part of the law of the land that the President is obligated to execute. Id. at 1121, 1124. On rehearing en banc, the court ruled that Lear Siegler was not a prevailing party and withdrew the sections of the opinion quoted above. HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012394

TAB 13 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012395

room. on OD oO FB WwW NH ~0929104. TXT IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO. 2006 CFOS454AXX STATE OF FLORIDA, -VS- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. / Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:00 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Palm Beach County Courthouse 205 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Judith F. Consor, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Consor & Associates Reporting and Transcription Phone - 561.682.0905 APPEARANCES: On behalf of the State: LANNA BELOHLAVEK, ESQ. ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY 401 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 561.355.7100 On behalf of the Defendant: MICHAEL R. TEIN, ESQ. KATHRYN A. MEYERS, ESQ. LEWIS TEIN, PL 3059 GRAND AVENUE, SUITE 340 Page 1 HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_012396