Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 101 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 70 of 100 risor & Associates Reportine bed Transcription. Inc. Page 44 1 BY MR. TEIN: 2 Q. And IIIIIIrbought a purse, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And you were with her the whole time at 5 Marshall's, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Now tell me about when the federal 8 prosecutors told you about getting reimbursed. 9 A. I have no idea what you're talking about. 10 Q. Tell me about when the federal prosecutors 11 spcke to you about getting money you feel you're entitled 12 to from Mr. Epstein. 13 A. I don't know what you're talking about. 14 Q. Do you know who Villafona is? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. Did you ever meet with any federal 17 prosecutors? 18 A. I think yeah. I think they were 19 think they were like FBI. 20 Q. tm-huh. Did you meet with federal 21 prosecutors? 22 A. They came to my house one time, yes. 23 Q. When did they come to your house? 24 A. Very long ago. 25 Q. Was it this year, 2008? 70 0116 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001276 EFTA00799705

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 102 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 sor EntAssociates ered on FLSDnocket 07/21/2008 Page 71 of 100 steponenindltrarscriptiokinc. Page 45 1 A. It was not this year, no. 2 Q. Was it 2007? 3 A. I'd have to say at least two years ago or a 4 year ago, yeah. So it would be 2007, 2006; but it was a 5 while ago. 6 Q. How many federal prosecutors or FBI agents came to your house? 8 A. I'm trying to remember. I want to say four 9 people came. 10 Q. Did they give you their business cards? 11 A. If they did, I don't remember, and they 12 weren't toward me. Maybe my parents have them. I don't 13 know. 14 Q. Did they give you their cell phone numbers? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you ever speak to them on their cell 17 phones? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Did they speak to your parents? 20 A. That's something you'd have to ask my 21 parents. 22 Q. Do you know whether they spoke to'your 74 oarapt'al 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. You have no idea? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 TI elite 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001277 EFTA00799706

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 103 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 72 of 100 sor & Associates Report's and Transalpine', Inc. Page 46 1 A. No, sir. 2 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Asked and 3 answered. 4 BY HR. TEIN: 5 O. So if I say the name to you 6 Villafona, you don't know who that is? 7 A. No, sir. 8 O. How many women and how many men came to 9 your house? 10 A. I want to say two ladies and two guys. 11 Q. Did someone named Jeffrey Sloman come to :2 you: house? 13 A. I don't know names, sir. 14 Q. Do you know who Jeffrey Sloman is? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. Do you know who Jeffrey Herman is? 17 A. Yes. 18 0. That's the lawyer who first sued Epstein on 19 your behalf, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Has Mr. Herman advanced your family any 22 money? 23 MR. LEOPOLD: Any conversations that you've 24 had with Mr. Herman regarding that issue, you are 25 not to disclose. If you've learned in some other 1 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 12 of 3111 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001278 EFTA00799707

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 104 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 73 of 100 nsor & Associates Ropaning Ind Transcripnen. Inc. 3 2 3 4 BY MR. TEIN: fashion, you may answer. THE WITNESS: Okay. I wouldn't know. Page 47 5 Q. You don't know? 6 A. No. 7 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Foundation. 8 Attorney/client privilege. 9 BY MR. TEIN: 10 Q. And you say you don't know who Jeff Sloman 11 is? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that he's 34 the number two prosecutor at the U.S. Attorney's Office? 15 A. No. 16 Q. That he's Villafona's boss? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Does it refresh your memory that he's the 19 ex-partner of Jeff Herman, the first lawyer, who sued 20 you -- sued Mr. Epstein on your behalf for fifty million 21 dollars? 22 A. No, sir. I don't know who he is. 23 O. Without telling me any conversations t at-- 2 4 you've had with your lawyers, how is it that you selected 25 Mr. Herman as your lawyer from the 81,000 members of the Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 7) 4311 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001279 EFTA00799708

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 105 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page74of100 nsor & Associates licpcinIng and Transctiptinm, Inc. Page 48 1 Florida Bar? 2 A. I did not select him. 3 Q. Who did? 4 A. My father. 5 Q. Did you ever meet Mr. Herman? 6 A. Once. 7 O. Don't -- don't tell me what you discussed 8 with him. Where did you meet him? 9 A. I was shopping in my -- he showed up at my 10 friend's house. 11 0. Whose house? 12 A. My friend 13 Q. Is that from the Quarterdeck 14 Tavern? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And did you have a meeting with him at 17 house? 18 A. Yes. I guess you could say that. 19 Q. And who else was there? 20 A. My Aunt 21 Q. And what was that meeting about? 22 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. That calls for 23 attorney/client privilege. 24 BY MR. TEIN: 25 Q. What discussions did you have with Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 II of 311 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001280 EFTA00799709

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 106 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 75 of 100 sor & Associates Reporting and laanscripnnn, Page 49 1 Mr. Herman in the presence of 2 A. None. 3 Q. What discussions did you have in the 4 presence of her aunt? 5 A. Of my aunt? 6 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's the witness's. aunt. 7 BY MR. TEIN: 8 Q. oh, of your aunt. 9 A. The only one that we've ever discussed or 10 ever had. 11 Q. And so you were in a conversation with 12 Mr. Herman and your aunt? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And you discussed privileged matters during 15 that conversation? 16 MR. LEOPOLD: Object to the form. I think 17 you might have to educate her on that question. 18 BY MR. TEIN: 19 Q. You discussed the lawsuit? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did tell you about any 22 conversations that she had with Mr. Herman? 23 A. As far as I'm concerned, she's never spoken 24 or she's never had a conversation. She only opened the 25 door and then left. She's the one who answered the door. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 75-3is 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001281 EFTA00799710

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 107 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 76 of 100 nsor & Associates Rapartino nail Triaratiptico, Page 50 1 Q. Why did the meeting take place ata 2 'l ouse? 3 A. I spent the night that night at her house. 4 Q. And when was this? 5 A. A while ago. 6 Q. How long ago? 7 A. A month and a half ago. I'm guessing. 8 Q. A month and a half ago? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. So was it before of after Mr. Herman filed 11 the fifty-million-dollar lawsuit against Epstein? 12 A. After. 13 Q. Did you meet with an FBI agent named 14 Nesbitt Kurkendall, a woman? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. Did Ms. Kurkendall speak to you about 17 getting reimbursed from Mr. Epstein? 18 A. I've never had a discussion with anyone 19 about getting reimbursed from Mr. Epstein. 20 Q. Have you met with an agent named Jason 21 Richards? 22 A. Not to my knowledge. 23 Q. How about an agent named Tim Slater? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. How about an agent named Junior Ortiz? MAIN Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001282 EFTA00799711

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 108 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 77 of 100 nsor & Associates Report' ng and Trassati Nino, Inc. Page 51 1 A. No. 2 Q. And we've learned that many of the girls, 3 some of whom are as old as 23, were told by the 4 government that they would get money at the end of the 5 criminal prosecution. Does that sound familiar to you?' 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Other than Mr. Leopold here -- I'm not 8 asking about Mr. Herman either 9 A. Oh-huh. 10 Q. -- did anyone ever discuss with you that 11 you could get reimbursement for your damages? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. Did you or any member -- 14 MR. LEOPOLD: Are you referring to a 15 criminal matter or a civil matter? 16 BY MR. TEIN: 17 Q. Did you or any member -- 18 MR. LEOPOLD: Excuse me. Let me object to 19 the form of the question. 20 BY MR. TEIN: 21 Q. Did you or any member of your family ever 22 get a victim notification letter from anyone? 23 A. I no longer live at that residence and 24 wouldn't know. 25 Q. So your testimony is that you have never Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 nom 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001283 EFTA00799712

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 109 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 sor & Associates Itoponiojt Ana 1 ranntiPier., 'kg • Page 78 of 100 8 or law enforcement in this case? letter, correct? rgpAwvtd a victim notification letter, correct? Q. Have you given any evidence to prosecutors Q. Correct. And your testimony is that you don't know rect. 3 Page 52 1 2 4 if your parents have ever received a victim notification 5 6 A. 7 9 A. What do you mean by evidence? 10 Q. Well. Anything that you can touch or feel. 11 A. No. 12 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection to the form of the 13 question. 14 BY MR. TEIN: 15 Q. So you haven't given anything physical 16 A. No. 17 Q. -- any item to any prosecutor, police 18 . officer or law enforcement agent, correct? 19 A. My cell phone four years ago or three years 20 ago, but that's it. 21 Q. You gave your cell phone to whom? 22 A. Pagan. 23 Q. Did she keep it? 24 A. Ask her. 25 Q. You gave it to her and then you didn't get 71 0131. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvrt)84Oa3g@v_Wfam Beach, FL 33401 001284 EFTA00799713

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 110 of 176 Case 9:08-ov-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 79 of 100 sor & Associates • Romomn, aid TransctIptiall. Inc. • - • nets* Page 53 1 it back at the end of the meeting? 2 A. No. They -- yeah. No. They have it. I'm 3 guessing. I don't have it. 4 Q. How much money are you hoping to get out Of 5 Mr. Epstein? 6 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection to the form of the 7 question. Attorney/client privilege. 8 BY MR. TEIN: 9 Q. How much money arc you hoping to get, you, 10 yourself, hoping to get out of Epstein? 11 MR. LEOPOLD: Same. Same objection, 12 attorney/client privilege. 13 Don't answer the question. 14 BY MR. TEIN: 15 Q. I'm not asking about what your lawyer told 16 you. 17 MR. LEOPOLD: I'm instructing her not to 18 answer the question, because any of those 19 conversations involve her counsel. 20 MR. TEIN: Certify that. 21 MR. LEOPOLD: Please. 22 CERTIFIED QUESTION 23 BY MR. TEIN: 24 Q. Now, you lied to get out of this 25 deposition, didn't you? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 . 1655 Palm Beath Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001285 EFTA00799714

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 111 of 176 50 el MI Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page8001100 *nsor & Associates Roprming and Transcription. Inc 1 A. No, sir. Page 54 2 Q. You didn't want to come to court today and 3 tell the story that you had told to the police under 4 oath, did you? 5 MR. LEOPOLD: Object to the form of the 6 question. Lack of foundation, predicate. 7 THE WITNESS: No. I have no problem coming 8 here and talking to you. 9 BY MR. TEIN: 10 Q. And to avoid getting served with a lawful 11 subpoena, you lied about your name, didn't you? 12 A. No. 13 Q. And in fact, just lying yourself wasn't 14 enough, was it? 15 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection to the form of the 16 question. 17 Don't answer it. It's not a question. 18 object. to the form of the question. Lack 19 of foundation. 20 MR. TEIN: Are you instructing her not to 21 answer? 22 MR. LEOPOLD: I am. L3 MR. TEIN: Certify it. 24 MR. LEOPOLD: Please. 25 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001286 EFTA00799715

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 112 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 81 of 100 *nsor & Associates koportins and Transcription, Inc. Page 55 1 CERTIFIED QUESTION 2 BY MR. TEIN: 3 Q. You asked your co-workers 4 MR. LEOPOLD: It's vague and ambiguous. 5 BY MR. TEIN: 6 Q. You asked your co-workers at the 7 Quarterdeck Tavern to lie for you, didn't you? 8 A. No. I informed my boss about what was 9 going on and he told me that he would help in any way 10 that he can. 11 Q. Okay. You got your friendillillippto lie 12 by switching name tags with you, correct? 13 A. Incorrect. It was a coincidence that same 14 night she was not wearing her name tag; she was wearing 15 mine. But I was also not wearing -- I was wearing my 16 name tag. Everyone switches name tags. It just so 17 happens it was a coincidence that same night the people 1$ came with the papers. 19 MR. TEIN: Will you put up Exhibit 18-001? 20 MR. GOLDBERGER: And mark 18-001 for 21 identification purposes to this deposition. 22 MR. LEOPOLD: None of them have been marked It ot 314 23 yet. Can we mark them and put them as attachment 24 to the depositions? Because I think you've shown 25 three photos now. And this is the only one that Ph, 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001287 EFTA00799716

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 113 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM p ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 82 of 100 . ni 1sor & Associates Ropo ng nad Transcngdon Inc Page 56 1 has been marked for identification yet. 2 BY MR. TEIN: 3 Q. -- 4 MR. LEOPOLD: Hold on just a second. Just 5 so the record is clear -- 6 MR. TEIN: I'm not speaking to you. 7 MR. LEOPOLD: Okay. Then don't speak to me 8 then. But I'll speak to Mr. Goldberger, perhaps. 9 But at least for the record, can we put on 10 the record what the previous two photographs were 11 marked for identification? 12 MR. GOLDBERGER: We will make sure that the 13 record is clear at the end of the deposition so 14 that there's no ambiguity. 15 MR. LEOPOLD: Thank you. 16 BY MR. TEIN: 17 Q. va I've put a photograph marked 18-001 18 up on the screen. Do you see that? 19 A. Yup. 20 Q. Who is that in the photo? 21 A. the left and me on the right. 22 Q. la right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. your friend at the 25 Quarterdeck Tavern, right? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001288 EFTA00799717

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 114 of 176 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 83 of 100 nsor & Associates Reporting nil TraliSCriplson.1M. 1 A. Yes. Page 57 2 Q. anour friend, who you say the day 3 that the process servers went to serve you with a 4 subpoena for this deposition, just happened -- just. by 5 coincidence, was wearing your name tag? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And just by coincidence, you were wearing her name tag, correct? 9 A. Yes. Q. Your testimony under oath is that's just a coincidence, right? A. Total honesty. Q. It just happens to be the day that you were going to be served with a subpoena, correct? A. That wasn't the first day that -- MR. LEOPOLD: just answer the question. It calls for a yes or no. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You said that wasn't the first day you were going to be -- you thought you were being served with a subpoena, correct? Oaf 1S 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. You knew before the day that you switched 25 name tags with that the process servers were Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682,1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd,, Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001289 EFTA00799718

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 115 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 84 of 100 sor & Associates . 1 Roponins and 1'ranscrlN•lne, inc. Page 58 1 looking for you, didn't you? 2 A. No. I knew -- 3 MR. LEOPOLD: Just answer it. It calls for 4 a yes or no. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. No. 6 BY MR. TEIN: 7 Q. Now you can explain the answer that your 8 counsel stopped you from explaining. 9 A. Okay. I work at Quarterdeck and people 10 were telling me that people were looking for me. So yes, 11 I was aware that people were searching for me. But I had 12 no :.dea who they were or what their intentions were. But 13 I thought they were just people I didn't want to talk to. 14 So I just didn't want to talk to them. And every time 15 they'd come to work I wasn't there. And so happens the 16 night that they came in me and my friend switched name 17 tags. No big deal. 18 Q. That's a lie, isn't it? 19 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Don't answer that 20 question. That's harassment and I will not allow 21 it. He could ask the questions and we'll allow a 22 jury to make that determination, but not counsel. 23 I will not allow her to answer that' 24 question. 25 MR. TEIN: Certify it. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001290 EFTA00799719

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 116 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 85 of 100 nsor & Associates Repletion? and Transcdpoon. Page 59 1 MR. LEOPOLD: I'll certify it. 2 CERTIFIED QUESTION 3 She's answered that question. She's explained it five 4 tines already. The fact that Counsel doesn't like the 5 answer, that's a different query. 6 MR. TEIN: Stop making speaking objections. 7 MR. LEOPOLD: I'm not. I'm not going to 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 put up with it, because it's in appropriate, Jack, and you know it. I will not allow Counsel to berate a witness, whether it's in a criminal case or a civil case, whether my client or -- MR. TEIN: Calm down. MR. LEOPOLD: Excuse me. No, I'm not going to allow it. That is not proper. MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. MR. LEOPOLD: If he wants to say that she's lying after asking it five times and her explaining in great detail, he can do that. But I'm not going to allow her to answer, nor be harassed by him. It's improper. MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. But your response 23 that Counsel doesn't like the question -- or 24 doesn't like the answer -- just let me finish. 25 MR. LEOPOLD: Absolutely. I wasn't going Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Sulte 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001291 EFTA00799720

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 117 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 86 of 100 nsor & Associates 'towns anti 7/ascription, Jac Page 60 1401 316 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to interrupt you. MR. GOLDBERGER: Just requires us to say we like the answer to that question. And it's not you and I or you and Mr. Tein who are testifying here. It's the witness. MR. LEOPOLD: Fine. But after the sixth time of asking the same question and then coming back and pointing a finger at her and saying, "You're a liar" -- MR. TEIN: That didn't happen. MR. LEOPOLD: That's fine. But I'm not going to allow her to answer that question, because she's answered that same question and has explained it. Now Counsel might be sitting there rubbing his head with a migraine. That's his problem. But if he can't ask a question appropriately in a professional manner, we will leave. I will not allow her to be berated like that. MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, we're very happy with the answer. MR. LEOPOLD: That's great. MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you want us to get into that? MR. TEIN: Ted -- Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001292 EFTA00799721

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 118 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80804-KAM cumentl Entered on FLSDIDocket07/21/2008 Page 87 of 100 nsor & Associates Reporting 4nd Tranteriptino. Inc.. . II? el 311 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 8 19 20 21 22 Page 62 MR. LEOPOLD: This is really big stuff that you're going through. But that's fine; just ask your question and move on. But do it one time. If you don't understand it, I'll let you follow up, but I'm not going to allow you to ask the same question time and again and then call her a liar. Just ask the question, get the answer and move to the next subject matter. MR. TEIN: Ted, I'm sitting right across the table from you. MR. LEOPOLD: Yes, sir. MR. TEIN: Please be quiet. Don't yell. MR. LEOPOLD: I will not be quiet. MR. TEIN: Stop yelling. MR. LEOPOLD: Lewis, when I'm yelling you'll know it. I will not -- MR. TEIN: My name is not Lewis. MR. LEOPOLD: I thought your first name was Lewis, Mr. Tein. MR. TEIN: You watched me for three days at the evidentiary hearing where you sat in the back of the courtroom. You should know who I am. 23 MR. LEOPOLD: Well, that's the impressibm 24 you must have made in the courtroom. 25 I will not be quiet. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001293 EFTA00799722

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 119 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Do ument 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 88 of 100 sor & Associates FterinninA end Tunectipana, Inc Page 62 1 MR. TEIN: That's obnoxious. Stop being 2 obnoxious. It's stupid. Let's go ahead with the 3 questions. 4 MR. LEOPOLD: I will make the record. 5 MR. TEIN: Let's get on with the questions. 6 MR. LEOPOLD: Do you need a break? 7 (Thereupon, a recess was takeh.) 8 BY MR. TEIN: 9 Q. Okay. 'WAIF after you told your manager 10 11 at the Quarterdeck Tavern everything that was going on and he told you he would help you any way he could, he 12 hid you in the kitchen from the process servers, correct? 13 A. Incorrect. 14 Q. Isn't it true that lying to avoid service 15 is a meaningless lie to you, 16 A. Incorrect. 17 Q. What is your manager's name? 18 A. I have three. Would you like to know 19 all -- 20 Q. Who's the one who lied for you? 21 A. 22 Q. And what did do to lie for you? 23 A. Said I wasn't there. 24 Q. And who did he tell wasn't there? 25 A. Ask him. of3111 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001294 EFTA00799723

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 120 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 EnteredonFLSDDocket07121/2008 Page 89 of 100 $nsor & Associates Ropnaing and Trascripcion. inc. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 you? 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Page 63 Q. Where were you when IIIIII,told this someone that you were not at the Quarterdeck Tavern? A. Eating nachos. Q. At the Quarterdeck Tavern? A. Yes. Q. What did you do so that IIIIIIPwould lie to the process servers for you? A. Nothing. Q. You just got him to lie for you, didn't A. No. I had no influence on him saying I wasn't there. Q. He took that upon himself? Isn't it true that Mr. Epstein's process servers had to ask the police to get you out of the restaurant so that they could serve you? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Lack of foundation, predicate. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You can answer the question. MR. LEOPOLD: If you know. Don't guess. TEE WITNESS: No. Can you repeat the 00 of 315 23 question? 24 MR. TEIN: Don't coach. 25 MR. LEOPOLD: Don't guess. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001295 EFTA00799724

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 121 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Do ment 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 90 of 100 nsor & Associates Ftoponitp and Transcription. Inc. SO of 316 Page 64 1 MR. TEIN: That's a coaching. 2 MR. LEOPOLD: No. That's an instruction to 3 the client. 4 MR. TEIN: No. You don't do that. 5 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question? 6 MR. LEOPOLD: Let me just state for the 7 record -- 8 BY MR. TEIN: 9 Q. Once the police -- isn't it true that 10 Mr. Epstein's process servers had to ask the police to 11 get you out of the restaurant so that they could serve 12 you? 13 A. Incorrect. My boss called the police. 14 Q. And once the police showed up, to stop you 15 from lying to avoid service, you made up another lie that 16 the process servers had harassed you. Isn't that 17 correct? 18 A. Incorrect. 19 Q. You lie all the time, don't you? 20 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. 21 THE WITNESS: Incorrect. 22 BY MR. TEIN: 23 Q. You have a MySpace page, don't you? 24 A. No longer do I have a MySpace page. I 25 deleted it. • Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001296 EFTA00799725

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 122 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D merit 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 91 of 100 l ii i nsor & Associates Ropaning and Transcliptice, km. Page 65 1 Q. When did you delete your MySpace page? 2 A. A couple days ago. 3 Q. Who told you to take your MySpace page down 4 a couple of days ago? 5 A. Nobody. I'm sick and tired of MySpace. 6 Q. You all of a sudden got sick and tired of 7 MySpace and just a few days before this deposition you 8 decided to delete your MySpace page, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Is that your testimony under oath? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you take your MySpace page down because 13 you thought the government might subpoena it? 14 A. Incorrect. 15 Q. Hadn't your MySpace page been up for over 16 three months before you took it down? 17 A. Correct. But I also had made tons of I8 MySpaces over the last years. I just get tired of them 19 and delete them because -- drama -- and make new ones. 20 Q. We're going to talk about that. 21 So you deleted your MySpace page after you 22 were already under subpoena for this deposition, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. What about the MySpace page didn't you want 25 us to see, us Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 II of 310 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001297 EFTA00799726

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 123 of 176 92 01711 9 10 11 you? 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 right? 22 23 24 25 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 92 of 100 sor & Associates iteportinkaad Transcrip:Ion. Inc. Page 66 1 A. Nothing. 2 Q. Well, we're going to come back to MySpace 3 in a second. 4 A. You do that. 5 Q. going to ask you some questions 6 abaft why you lie about your age so often, okay? 7 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection to the form. 8 Argumentative. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You lie about your age all the time, don't MR. LEOPOLD: Objection, argumentative. THE WITNESS: Incorrect. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You lie about your age to get body piercings, don't you? A. Incorrect. Q. You have body piercings, don't you? A. Yes. Q. You have four body piercings; isn't that A. Five. Q• Other than the piercings on your ears I'm not talking about that -- A. Oh, then no; just one. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001298 EFTA00799727

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 124 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM DQCyment 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 93 of 100 nsor & Associates Jur/toning aad leascrialesOric. Page 67 Q. And where is the one body piercing? 2 A. Belly. 3 Q. When did you get that? 4 A. For my birthday, with my stepmother and my 5 father. 6 Q. And when was that? 7 A. When I was 14. 8 Q. Okay. So you had that body piercing when 9 you met Epstein, correct? 10 A. It might have been, or maybe that -- yeah, 11 either my 14th birthday or my 15th. I honestly don't 12 remember. 13 Q. Now you've lied about your age to get into 14 bars by using driver's licenses that aren't yours, 15 correct? 16 A. Incorrect. 17 Q. Are you swearing under oath that you've 18 never done that? 19 A. Yes, I swear under oath. 20 Q. And you've lied about your age to buy beer, 21 correct? 22 A. Incorrect. 23 0. You're swearing under oath that you've 24 never lied to stores about your age? 25 A. I've never lied to a store about my age or Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Pan Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 93 of 316 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001299 EFTA00799728

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 125 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ment 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 94 of 100 . sor & Associates RoptinunE and Tcomscriptico, Inc. Page 68 1 anything. 2 O. You try to look much older than you are, 3 don't you? 4 A. Incorrect. 5 6 8 Q• And you've lied about your age on your MySpace pages, don't you? A. Incorrect. Q. All right. Let's look at Exhibit 26-01 9 one. 10 MS. BELOHLAVEK: 26-001? 11 MR. TEIN: Yes. 12 BY MR. TEIN: 13 Q.. On this page you lied to everyone that you 14 were 1B, didn't you? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Let's go to Exhibit 33. 17 MS. BELOHLAVEK: That's 33-001? 28 TEIN: Correct. 19 BY MR. TEIN: 20 Q. On this page you lied to everyone that you 21 were 19, didn't you? 22 A. Incorrect. 23 MR. LEOPOLD: Just answer the question. 24 THE WITNESS: Oh, incorrect. 25 BY MR. TEIN: Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001300 EFTA00799729

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 126 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ument 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 95 of 100 nsor & Associates Ho jinni'', and TranseFlptural, Inc. Page 69 1 Q. Now you can explain your answer. 2 A. I know that I have seen all of these and I 3 know that this one is mine. 4 Can you go down? 5 MR. LEOPOLD: Just for the record, you're 6 pointing to the photo. 7 THE WITNESS: I'm pointing to -- 8 BY MR. TEIN: 9 Q. You're pointing to the one where it says 10 your age is 18? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. That's yours, right? 13 A. Correct. That's mine from a couple years 14 ago that I have not been on, because I don't use that. 15 Please keep going down, please. And I think that's it, 16 because there's no one -- just that one is mine. 17 Q. So the one you pointed to where it says 18 your age is 18, that's yours, correct? 19 A. Correct. L0 Q. And when you wrote 18 as your age on your 21 MySpace page, that was a lie, wasn't it? 22 A. Correct. 95 ol 316 23 Q. Did you lie about your MySpace page back 24 then because you couldn't post on MySpace unless you were 25 18? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Sulte 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001301 EFTA00799730

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 127 of 176 NorMs Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ment 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 96 of 100 nsor & Associates Hoponiftsand Traractipuon, Page 70 1 A. Correct. There was a rule many years ago 2 that you had to be 18 to have a MySpace. 3 Q. So you lied about your age so you could 4 post on MySpace, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Let's go back to the top one on this page, 7 33-01. 8 Are you testifying now under oath that this 9 MySpace page where the headline says, "Twins do have more 10 fun," and the location is given as Lox, abbreviation for 11 Loxahatchee, and the age is 19, and it says 12 it your testimony that you did not post 13 that? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Now let's go back to the one that you were 16 pointing to before on this page, where it says your age 17 is 18 and you lied about your age to post MySpace, okay? 18 A. Uh-huh, yes. 19 Q. All right. Why did you finally put your 20 true age on your MySpace profile four days before you 21 were scheduled to testify before the Grand Jury? 22 A. I don't know what you're talking about. 23 MR. LEOPOLD: If you don't understand, ask 24 him to ask the question again. 25 MR. TEIN: Don't coach. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Sulte 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001302 EFTA00799731

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 128 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Dg rpent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 97 of 100 nsor & Associates its:proms and Trawactiplicm, loc. Page 71 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know which MySpace 2 you're talking about. 3 BY MR. TEIN: 4 Q. The MySpace page that you're just pointing 5 to, where it says you were 18. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you were lying about your age, right? A. Dh-huh. 9 Q. Why did you finally post your true age on 10 your MySpace profile -- 11 A. Uh -- 12 Q. -- four days before you were scheduled to 13 testify before the Grand Jury? 14 A. I honestly don't know which MySpace, 15 because I've had like a bazillion MySpaces, and in that 16 year, I had two, that one and another one, and that one's 17 been deleted. So I don't know which one you're referring 18 to. 19 Q. You remember that you changed your age on 20 your MySpace page from 18 to your true age just four days 21 before you went and testified in the Grand Jury? 22 A. No. 23 Q. You don't remember that. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Do you remember Detective Recarey? Did you Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 sf of 31S 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001303 EFTA00799732

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 129 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D u ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 98 of 100 m o nsor & Associates Rept-winsAnd Transceiption. inc. 1. 2 ever meet a Detective Recatey? A. I don't know the names. Page 72 3 Q. How many different detectives have you met 4 with on this case from Palm Beach? 5 A. Probably a good six or seven, maybe. 6 Q. Did one of the detectives tell you before 7 you testified in the Grand Jury that you should take your 8 MySpace age and put your true age? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Didn't Detective Recarey have to come to I1 your house to pick you up to get you to testify in front 12 of the Grand Jury? 13 A. Possibly; maybe because I didn't have a 14 ride; I was only 14 or 15 at the time. 15 Q. Your mom didn't drive you? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Stepmom didn't drive you? 18 A. I think my dad. Oh, my dad; my dad drove 19 me. 20 Q. Your dad drove you? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. So your testimony is Detective Recarey did 23 not drive you, correct? 24 MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. /asked and 25 answered. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 ot3i0 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001304 EFTA00799733

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 130 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM DgFyrnent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 99 of 100 nsor & Associates Itopnoing and Tranictiptinn. inc. Page 73 1 THE WITNESS: No. I'm pretty sure my dad 2 drove me, because he was there with me. 3 BY MR. TEIN: 4 Q. Did any detective tell you to change your 5 age on your MySpace page, to put your true age? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Now you also lied on your MySpace page 8 about your income, didn't you? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And you lied, saying that you made a 11 quarter million dollars a year and higher, correct? 12 A. As a joke, yes. 13 Q. That was a lie, wasn't it? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And you also lied on your MySpace page, 16 saying that you were married, didn't you? 17 A. Possibly. And that might have been an 38 error on my part. 19 Q. Now you also lie to the police, don't you? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Well, you lied to the police in your 22 tape-recorded statement that you gave to Detective 23 Pagan three years ago, didn't you? 24 A. To my knowledge, no, I did not. 25 Q. Well, you lied to the police when you Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 19 c4 316 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001305 EFTA00799734

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 131 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM D ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 100 of 100 o n sor & Associates Repro:IQ. and Triescri piton lbc. • Page 74 1 accused Mr. Epstein of attempting to murder your father, 2 didn't you? 3 A. No. I never heard a statement saying that 4 Mr. Epstein tried to murder my father. 5 Q. You made that statement, didn't you? 6 MR. LEOPOLD: Do you have a statement to 7 show her? That's been asked and answered. 8 MR. TEIN: I'm sorry. I didn't hear the 9 witness' answer, Mr. Leopold. 10 BY MR. TEIN: 11 O. Vari you told the police, didn't you, 12 that Mr. Epstein almost killed your father, didn't you? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Three years ago, before Mr. Epstein even 15 knew about this investigation, you told the police that 16 Epstein had "already come to my dad's house and did 17 something to my dad's tires and my dad almost died. I 18 didn't want my dad to get hurt, because Jeff already ?9 almost killed him." 20 Didn't you say that? 21 A. Not to my knowledge or recollection. I 22 have never said anything like that. 23 Q. That would have been a complete lie, 24 wouLdn't it have been? 25 A. Yeah. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Sulte 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 100 01314 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001306 EFTA00799735

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 132 of 176 Exhibit 10 EFTA00799736

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 133 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 1 of 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA WEST PALM BEACH DIVISION CASE NO. 0B-80119-CIV-MARRA JANE DOE, et al., Plaintiffs, vs. JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA JUNE 12, 2009 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF MOTION HEARING 11 BEFORE THE HONORABLE KENNETH A. MARRA, UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE 12 APPEARANCES: 13 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: ADAM D. HOROWITZ, ESQ. 14 Mermelstein & Horowitz 18205 Biscayne Boulevard 15 Miami, FL 33160 305.931.2200 For Jane Doe 16 BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, ESQ. 17 Rothstein Rosenfeldt Adler 401 East Las Olas Boulevard 18 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 Jane Doe 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 19 954.522.3456 20 ISIDRO M. GARCIA, ESQ. Garcia Elkins Boehringer 21 224 Datura Avenue West Palm Beach. FL 13 22 Jane DOE II 561.832.8033 23 RICHARD H. WILLITS, ESQ. 2290 10th Avenue North 2411 Lake Worth, FL 33461 For C.M.A. 561.582.7600 25 ! GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT /o TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001810 EFTA00799737

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 134 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 2 of 51 2 1 ROBERT C. JOSEFSBERG, ESQ. 2 Podhurst Orseck Josefsberg 25 West Flagler Street 3 Miami, FL 33130 For Jane Doe 101 305.358.2800 4 (Via telephone) 5 KATHERINE W. EZELL, ESQ. Podhurst Orseck Josefsberg 6 25 West Flagler Street Miami, FL 33130 7 For Jane Doe 101 305.358.2800 8 FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT D. CRITTON, JR., ESQ. MICHAEL BURMAN, ESQ. 9 Burman Critton, etc. 515 North Flagler Street 10 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 561.842.2820 11 JACK A. GOLDBERGER, ESQ. 12 Atterbury Goldberger Weiss 250 Australian Avenue South 13 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 561.659.8300 14 As At-ircas cwc VILLAFANA, ESQ. 15 Assistant U.S. Attorney 500 East Broward Boulevard 16 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33394 For U.S.A. 954.356.7255 17 MARTIN G. WEINBERG, ESQ. 18 20 Park Plaza Boston MA 02116 19 (Via telephone) 617.227.3700 20 JAY LEFKOWITZ, ESQ. (Via telephone) 21 REPORTED BY: LARRY HERR L RPR-RMR-FCRR-AE 22 official United States Court Reporter Federally Certified Realtime Reporter 23 400 North Miami Avenue, Room 8N09 Miami, FL 33128 305.523.5290 24 25 TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001811 EFTA00799738

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 135 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 3 of 51 3 1 THE COURT: We are here in the various Doe vs. Epstein 2 cases. 3 May I have counsel state their appearances? 4 MR. HOROWITZ: Adam Horowitz, counsel for plaintiffs 5 Jane 2 through Jane Doe 7. 6 THE COURT: Good morning. 7 MR. EDWARDS: Brad Edwards, counsel for plaintiff Jane 8 Doe. 9 THE COURT: Good morning. 10 MR. GARCIA: Good morning, Your Honor. Sid Garcia for 11 Jane Doe II. 12 THE COURT: Good morning. 13 MR. WILLITS: Good morning, Your Honor. Richard 14 Willits, here on behalf of the plaintiff C.M.A.. 15 THE COURT: Good morning. 16 MS. EZELL: Good morning, Your Honor. I'm Katherine 17 Ezell from Podhurst Orseck, here with Amy Adderly and Susan 18 Bennett, and I believe my partner, Bob Josefsberg, is going to 19 appear by telephone. 20 THE COURT: Mr. Josefsberg, are you there? 21 MR. JOSEFSBERG: I am, Your Honor. THE COURT. -GUud muLui-ny. 23 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Good morning. 24 THE COURT: All right. Do we have all the plaintiffs 25 stated their appearances? Okay. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001812 EFTA00799739

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 136 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 4 of 51 4 1 Defense? 2 MR. CRITTON: Your Honor, Robert Critton on behalf of 3 Mr. Epstein, and my partner, Michael Burman. 4 THE COURT: Good morning. 5 MR. GOLDBERGER: Good morning, Your Honor. Jack 6 Goldberger on behalf of Mr. Epstein. 7 THE COURT: I see we have some representatives from 8 the United States Attorney's Office here. 9 MS. VILLAFANA: Good morning, Your Honor. 10 Villafana for the U.S. Attorney's office. 11 THE COURT: Good morning. 12 Who else do we have on the phone? 13 MR. CRITTON: Your Honor, we have two members of the 14 defense team are on the phone, also. 15 THE COURT: Who do we have on the phone? 16 MR. WEINBERG: Martin Weinberg. Good morning, Your 17 Honor. 18 MR. LEFKOWITZ: Jay Lefkowitz. Good morning, Your 19 Honor. 20 THE COURT: Good morning. 21 I scheduled this hearing for very limited issues wnich, as you all xnow, chete•s been a m Cion by Mr. Epstein 23 stay the civil proceedings against him. The one issue I have 24 concern about is Mr. Epstein's contention or assertion that by 25 defending against the allegations in the civil proceedings, he TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001813 EFTA00799740

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 137 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 5of51 5 1 may expose himself to an allegation by the United States in the 2 non-prosecution agreement that he's violated that agreement and 3 therefore would subject himself to potential federal charges. 4 I had asked for some briefing on this. I asked the 5 United States to present its position to me. And I received 6 the Government's written response, which I frankly didn't find 7 very helpful. And I still am not sure I understand what the 8 Government's position is on it. 9 So first let me hear from Mr. Epstein's attorneys as 10 to what do you believe the concern is. I don't believe the 11 non-prosecution agreement has ever been filed in this Court; am 12 I correct? 13 MR. CRITTON: To my knowledge, Your Honor, it has not. 14 THE COURT: So I don't believe I've ever seen the 15 entire agreement. I've seen portions of it. 16 MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, I believe that it was filed 17 under Jane Doe 1 and 2 vs. United States of America, case under 18 seal in your court. 19 THE COURT: Okay. 20 MR. EDWARDS: In a separate case. 21 THE COURT: In that case, okay. Was it actually filed in -Mt case( 23 MR. EDWARDS: I filed it under seal. 24 THE COURT: In any event, what's Mr. Epstein's concern 25 about if you defend the civil actions, you're going to expose TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001814 EFTA00799741

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 138 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 6 of 51 6 1 yourself to a claim for a breach by the United States of the 2 non-prosecution agreement? 3 MR. CRITTON: Robert Critton. 4 Your Honor, our position on this case is, I'd say is 5 somewhat different. When this issue originally came before the 6 Court, as you are aware prior to my firm's involvement in the 7 case, there was a motion filed on behalf of Mr. Epstein seeking 8 a stay. And I think it was in Jane Doe 102 and then 9 subsequently Jane Doe 2 through 5 because all of those cases 10 were filed on or about the same time. 11 And at that time the Court looked at the issue and it 12 was based upon a statutory provision at that time. And the 13 Court said I don't find that it's applicable, or for whatever 14 reason I think the Court said I don't consider that to be a 15 pending proceeding or a proceeding at that particular time. 16 In that same order, which was in Jane Doe 2, I 17 believe it's -- not I believe, I know it's docket entry 33, the 18 Court also went on to talk about at that particular point in 19 time dealt with the issue of the discretionary stay. 20 And the Court said at that time, I'm paraphrasing, but 21 the Court also does not believe a discretionary stay is tett.---parcrwtrat—tinot t went --oTrTo -s-ay IS 23 defendant does not breach the agreement, then he should have no 24 concerns regarding his Fifth Amendment right against 25 self-incrimination. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001815 EFTA00799742

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 139 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page7of51 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 The fact that the U.S. Attorney or other law enforcement officials may object to some discovery in these civil cases is not in and of itself a reason to stay the civil litigation, so that any such issue shall be resolved as they arise in the course of the litigation. And I would respectfully submit to the Court that the position that the Government has taken in its most recent filings changes the playing field dramatically. Because what 9 the Government in essence has said as distinct from the U.S. 10 saying is, well, we object to some discovery, or we may object 11 to some discovery in the civil cases. 12 what they have, in essence, said is if you take some 13 action, Mr. Epstein, that we believe unilaterally, and this is 14 on pages 13 and 14 of their pleading or of their response memo 15 to the Court's inquiry, they say if Mr. Epstein breaches the 16 agreement. They said it's basically like a contract, and if 17 one side breaches, the other side can sue. 18 In this instance what the Government will do is if we 19 believe that Mr. Epstein has breached the agreement, we'll 20 indict him. We will indict him. And his remedy under that 21 circumstance, which is an incredible and catastrophic catch 22 22 s, we tct—him and then fte—Can move to dismiss. at. s a 23 great option. 24 In this particular instance my mandate in defending -- 25 and that's a dramatic change in the Government's position, TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001816 EFTA00799743

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 140 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page8of51 8 1 because the Government is not saying, and the Court was pretty 2 specific in what you asked the Government for in its response 3 is, in essence, and it's the same question in a more limited 4 fashion you're posing today is whether Mr. Epstein's defense of 5 the civil action violates the NPA agreement, the 6 non-prosecution agreement, between the U.S. and Mr. Epstein. 7 And the Government refuses to answer that question. 8 They won't come out and say, yes, it will, or no, it won't. 9 What they're doing is they want to sit on the sideline, and as 10 their papers suggest is, they want us to lay in wait and that 11 if, in fact, they believe he violates a provision of the NPA as 12 it relates to the defense of this case or these multitude of 13 cases, then they can come in and indict him -- no notice, no 14 opportunity to cure. li 15 We don't think that's what the NPA says, but that's 16 certainly what their papers say. We'll indict him, no notice, 17 no opportunity to cure. We will indict him, and his remedy 18 under that circumstance is that he can move to dismiss the 19 indictment. 20 Well, that's great except Mr. Epstein, his mandate to 21 me and I know his mandate to his criminal lawyers, is: Make ce-reain's on t. do anyci ny, ILL pattratilst In—these 23 that would in any way suggest that I am in willful violation of 24 the NPA. 25 Now, in the Court's prior ruling in the docket entry TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001817 EFTA00799744

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 141 of 176 Case 9:08-cv 80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page9of51 g 1 33, certainly some aspects of the NPA are within Mr. Epstein's 2 control. There's no question about that. But aspects that 3 relate to the defense of these cases, either in terms of the 4 civil lawyers who are defending these, I think there's 12 or 13 5 pending cases in front of you, there's another Eour cases in 6 the state court, is the risk is substantial, it's real, and it 7 presents a chilling effect for the civil lawyers in moving 8 forward to determine whether or not we're taking some action 9 that in some way may be a violation of the NPA. 10 And the Government's, again, refusal or non-position 11 with regard to past acts that have been taken in the civil case 12 with regard to the defense or future acts that we may take with 13 regard to these contested litigation casts an extraordinary 14 cloud of doubt and uncertainty and fear that the defense of 15 these cases could jeopardize Mr. Epstein and put him in the 16 irreparable position of violating the NPA and then subsequently 17 being indicted. 18 In this particular instance, again, Mr. Epstein has no 19 intention of willfully violating the NPA, but it's of great 20 concern to him. And I'd say with the position that the 21 Government has taken, no notice, no cure period, no opportunity Co discuss. Agatir, wechink—ti 6 'sot wlsairtlreneKTrovtder, 23 it's not what the deal was between the two contracting parties, 24 the United States and Mr. Epstein. But that's clearly what 25 their papers say under the circumstances, and it would create TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001818 EFTA00799745

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 142 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page100151 10 1 this irreparable harm to Mr. Epstein under the circumstances. 2 In essence, we're left with a catch 22 in defending 3 the civil cases. We have a mandate to take no action, to take 4 any action which may be deemed to be a violation of the NPA, 5 either in the past or in the future, which would in any way 6 risk Mr. Epstein being indicted by the United States. 7 He has the clear risk of an indictment based upon the 8 papers that the Government filed. It's real, it's not remote, 9 and it's not speculative. It chills the action of the defense 10 in this instance of both Mr. Epstein and his attorneys in 11 trying to defend these cases and decide under the circumstances 12 can we do this, can we take this position with regard to 13 depositions, can we take this legal position with regard to 14 motions to dismiss, with regard to responses, with regard to 15 replies? 16 And we send out paper discovery. Is this in some way 17 if we contact someone who may be an associate of these 18 individuals as part of our investigation, is that potentially 19 in any way a violation of the NPA? Again, we don't think so. 20 And, obviously, again, my direction has been from my 21 client: Don't take any action that would result in me being -i-ndi-cted under—the-NPA. Well, 14 . But., general , 23 civil lawyers or civil lawyers in defending a personal injury 24 case or a tort case, which is exactly what these are, and from 25 a practical standpoint, we use various tools to do discovery. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001819 EFTA00799746

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 143 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 11 of 51 11 1 They're standard. They're specific. They're very temporary. 2 Very typical. 3 But in this instance, as the Court knows, things are 4 not typical with regard to this case in any way, shape or form. 5 We can't even serve subpoenaes, there's objections and there's 6 -- we can't even serve objections to third parties so we can 7 obtain documents unless we have to filter it through the 8 plaintiffs' attorneys. They won't allow us to use their 9 clients' names, even in a subpoena that would never be filed in 10 the court. 11 How do we do a deposition of a third party? We wanted 12 to take the deposition of Jane Doe 4. Well, who is she? Well, 13 we can't tell you that. Well, who's the defendant? Well, we 14 can't tell you that because nobody wants anybody to know 15 anything about the case. They want to present it strictly 16 through rose-colored glasses. 17 And in this particular instance, we simply can't 18 defend this case or take certain action with the Spector 19 hanging over us that, in fact, the Government may deem it to be 20 a violation of the NPA, because very clearly in their response 21 papers, they don't say. They say we don't take the position, 22 and—then y - take substantial position to we thtnk h 23 not all that substantial factors that would entitle him to a 24 stay. 25 Except for the one major issue which the Court posed TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001820 EFTA00799747

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 144 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 12 of 51 12 1 in the question is, is can he defend these cases? That's what 2 I really want to know. Can he defend these cases and, in 3 essence, what he has done in the past or what his defense team 4 has done in the past and what they're going to do in the 5 future, can you give him, Epstein, assurances that the 6 Government under this situation, whatever he does, based on 7 advice of counsel, that that cannot be a willful violation of 8 the NPA, which they can -- they, the U.B. -- can then turn 9 around and say that's a violation of the agreement and, 10 therefore, we're going to go proceed to indict you under the 11 circumstances. 12 Our position is, Your Honor, is that the U.S. has now 13 cavalierly suggested that, as they did in picking up on the 14 court's docket entry or prior order, is, look, compliance with 15 the NPA is solely up to Mr. Epstein. In this type of balance 16 of equities, it doesn't speak in favor of a stay. 17 Well, that's great. And maybe that was the position 18 back in '08, on August 5th of '08, when the issue came up in 19 front of the Court with regard to the initial stay. 20 But the Government's papers under these circumstances 21 suggested a very different set of circumstances. Their own 2 -ate , h'-iis- th -we—argued—in—t1 a n,ut7:on for` 23 stay, is that the Government's position is that we can 24 unilaterally indict this man if we think he's breached the NPA. 25 we don't think that's right, but we have no buffer TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001821 EFTA00799748

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 145 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 13 of 51 13 1 between us and the Government. They'll say, and as the Court 2 knows, the Government has substantial power. The Government 3 does what it wants. Most of the time hopefully they're right. 4 Sometimes they make mistakes. 5 But in this particular instance, my client has rights. 6 We think that there's notice provisions, we think there's cure 7 provisions under the NPA. That's not what their paper says 8 under the circumstances. 9 And what we'd like to know from the Government, and 10 maybe the answer is basically what the Court asks is, let the 11 Government come forward today and say, based on the knowledge 12 that we have, or as of today's date, June 12th, 2009, we, the 13 Government, agree that there is no set of circumstances, not 14 that we're not aware of, but as of today's date, there is 15 nothing that exists that would be a violation of the NPA. 16 THE COURT: Well, that's way beyond what I'm 17 interested in. I don't know what Mr. Epstein may have done 18 outside the context of defending this case that may constitute 19 a violation. And if he has done something outside the context 20 of defending this case that's a violation, I don't care. 21 That's between the United States and Mr. Epstein. only canoe out—whettrera ty t y Ice does 23 defending these civil actions is going to be a violation of the 24 non-prosecution agreement. If he has done something else, it's 25 none of my business, and I don't care, and I'm not going to TOTALAccEsscourRocsiNEnvoaKREAcnmETRANsumrnoN 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001822 EFTA00799749

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 146 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119.-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 14of51 14 1 even ask the Government to give you an assurance that he hasn't 2 done anything that might have violated the agreement up till 3 today. I'm only interested in defending these civil actions. 4 MR. CRITTON: Then I would respectfully submit to the 5 Court that the Government be asked in that limited context, are 6 they as of today, whether there were or not, but as of today is 7 there anything that has been done or will you take the 8 position, the United States, that any position that Mr. Epstein 9 has taken with regard to defending these civil cases is in any 10 way a violation of the NPA? 11 THE COURT: Well, I'm not sure what they're going to 12 say, but that might -- that cures the problem up to this point. 13 But then we have to deal with what's going to happen from here 14 on in. And that's another issue that we have to deal with. 15 So I understand your position. 16 But has anyone suggested to you on behalf of the 17 United States that there is something that you've done in 18 defending this case that they believe may or could be construed 19 as a violation of the non-prosecution agreement? Has anyone 20 pointed to anything that you've done? For example, the fact 21 that you've wanted to take their -- I don't know if you've uLS(.eU UepusILiUlla VI 11VL 111 -case;-but you've—sent- 23 notice of taking deposition, if you sent requests for 24 production of documents, if you sent interrogatories, if you 25 issued third party subpoenas? Is anything you've done thus far TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001823 EFTA00799750

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 147 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 16of51 15 1 in the context of this case been brought to your attention as a 2 potential violation? 3 MR. CRITTON: I have received no notification nor am I 4 aware that we've received any notification of any action that 5 we have taken today. As I suggested to the Court, I don't know 6 when they've done or not. And in their papers they suggested, 7 well, we don't know everything that's gone on in the civil 8 litigation. 9 But from a practical standpoint, it was a number of 10 comments that were made in their papers is, we can indict, we 11 can see if there's a breach. 12 Judge, I may have some -- 13 THE COURT: Before you go on. 14 MR. CRITTON: I'm sorry. 15 THE COURT: You've focused a great deal on the 16 Government's response to my inquiry as supporting your position 17 that you're in jeopardy. But you've made the suggestion, even 18 before this brief was filed, that defending the case was going 19 to potentially result in an assertion or allegation that you 20 breached the non-prosecution agreement. 21 So what was it that caused you to make that initial 221 aws u —Bee s- what 9 y art-entianT-wa-s-not 23 this brief that the Government has filed was in response to 24 something that you filed initially in your most recent motion 25 for a stay which raised the issue. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001824 EFTA00799751

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 148 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 160151 16 1 So what was it that gave you some concern to even 2 raise the issue that defending this case is going to constitute 3 a breach? 4 MR. CRITTON: Because there are other instances where 5 counsel other than myself, not in the civil aspects, where 6 allegations have been made and letters have been sent by the 7 United States suggesting that there's been a violation of the 8 NPA. And under those circumstances, some notification was 9 provided. 10 THE COURT: Did it have anything to do with defending 11 the civil actions? 12 MR. CRITTON: It did not. 13 THE COURT: So then why was that issue raised by you 14 in the first instance? 15 MR. CRITTON: Because of the prospect that the 16 defendant could take, that the U.S. would take the position 17 under the circumstances that a position that we took with 18 regard to the contested litigation may well impact, that the 19 Government may have a very different view of what the 20 interpretation of the agreement is. 21 And as an example is a number of the parties, and I z2- -du 9 u--a- -dtacusEriarc-the raue 23 is, is under 2255 is that from the defendant's perspective the 24 deal that was cut on that, it was a very specific deal. It 25 dealt with both consensual and contested litigation. It dealt TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001825 EFTA00799752

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 149 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 17of51 17 1 with a secret list of individuals who we had no idea who was on 2 the list, and a commitment that he would under certain 3 circumstances be required to pay a minimum amount of damages, 4 which our position is under 2255 based upon the statute that 5 was in effect at the time, a $50,000 as to anyone who wanted -- 6 who came forward who was on the list and met certain criteria. 7 The position that now has been asserted by a number of 8 the plaintiffs under the circumstances, and it's been pled, and 9 actually a number of the complainants is, is Epstein agreed, 10 and they cite to a letter that was sent by Ms. Villafana from 11 the Government, that says he has to plead guilty or he can't 12 contest liability. That may be true under very, very limited 13 or specific circumstances. 14 But what the plaintiffs have done in a number of the 15 cases, and these are pending motions, is they've said is, well, 16 we think C.M.A. cases is a good example, they've pled 30 17 separate counts of 2255 alleged violations. And they're saying 18 under the circumstances is, therefore, we have 2255 violations, 19 there's 30 of them, so 30 times 150, or should be, or whether 20 it's 150, that's the amount of money that we want, so maybe $15 21 million, or whatever the number is. Some- tawyers—have beect even 23 more creative. They've said is, well, we'll agree that it's 24 only one cause of action but that each number of violations; 25 that is, if 20 alleged incidents occurred, that we would TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-C V-MARRA 001826 EFTA00799753

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 150 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 18of51 18 1 consider to be, or that we will argue are violations, then we 2 can take 20 times the 50, or the 150, depending on which 3 statute is applicable. 4 So the Government under that set of circumstance could 5 say, and, again, this is one of the reasons that we raised it, 6 they could say, look, our deal with you was that you couldn't 7 contest liability, that you were waiving liability, or your 8 ability to contest an enumerated offense under 2255. 9 Again, part of the deal was as to an enumerated 10 offense. Okay. Well, what's that mean? What did he plead to? 11 Well, he really didn't plead to anything, which is another 12 issue associated with the 2255. But if the Government comes in 13 and says, no, wait a minute, our position was, is that you're 14 stuck with 2255 and the language within the NPA. And, 15 therefore, whether it's an offense or whether it's multiple 16 offenses or violations or each one represents an individual 17 cause of action, if the Government takes the position that's 18 adverse to what we think the clear reading of the agreement was 19 under those circumstances, they could claim a violation. 20 And as a result -- and that's one of the reasons we 21 put -- that was the most glaring one to us, so we raised that sue-. -And—th c c thw pu sn-ame —with 23 regard to, is we can just proceed to indict if we think that 24 there's been a breach of the agreement. 25 That puts us at substantial risk and chills our TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 088073642V-NtARRA 001827 EFTA00799754

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 151 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 19of51 19 1 ability to move forward. Thank you, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Thank you. Who wants to be heard from the 3 plaintiffs first? 4 Is there any plaintiff's attorney who is contending 5 that the defense of these civil actions by Mr. Epstein is going 6 to constitute a breach of the non-prosecution agreement? 7 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Your Honor, this is Bob Josefsberg. 8 May I speak? 9 THE COURT: Yes, sir. 10 MR. JOSEFSBERG: We're not quite confident that any 11 breaches of any agreement, which were third-party 12 beneficiaries, should be resolved by you. We're not saying it 13 shouldn't. But we have not raised any breach of agreement. We 14I think that is between the United States and Mr. Epstein. 15 What I find incredulous and disingenuous is that 16i Mr. Epstein is saying that he wants a stay because he may be 17 forced into taking actions in the defense of this case that 18 would violate the agreement. 19 And let me make our position clear on that. If he 20 wants to move to take depositions, interrogatories, production, 21 and they are according to your rulings appropriate, not -invasive- crf--the- p-rivacy-crf- someone-, -and-they-are- tel 23 I don't know how those could in any way be violations of the 24 agreement. 25 What I find hypocritical is that there are two parts TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001828 EFTA00799755

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 152 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page20of51 20 1 to the agreement that I am a beneficiary of. One of them is 2 that he has agreed that on any action brought in the 2255, he 3 will admit to liability. 4 And I received on May 26 a motion to dismiss, which 5 we're prepared to respond to and disagree with, but totally 6 contesting liability, saying that the statute doesn't apply 7 because the girls are no longer minors and saying, and this is 8 the great one, saying that the predicate of the conviction 9 under 2255 has not been satisfied. 10 Now, the understanding that I have is the agreement 11 between the Government and Mr. Epstein was that the Government 12 desired to see these victims made whole, and wanted them to be 13 in the same position as if Mr. Epstein had been prosecuted and 14 pled or convicted. And they would be able to have the 15 predicate of that criminal conviction, which just as a matter 16 of liability would just be introduced as proof that he's done 17 this. 18 They, under the agreement, are supposed to admit to 19 liability on limited something that's under 2255. He has 20 filed, but since there is no conviction, there can be no civil 21 suit under 2255, with which we disagree. But it is totally in 23 The second part is there are many young ladies, and 24 this perhaps he can use this to his great advantage, who are 25 humiliated about this entire situation. Some of them won't TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001829 EFTA00799756

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 153 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page210f51 21 1 come forward. 2 We were appointed by Judge as a Special Master 3 to represent these young ladies. And some of them don't even 4 want to file suit. They don't even want to be known as Jane 5 Doe 103. They don't want any of the risks for these motions 6 that are pending. 7 And part of the agreement was that if we represented 8 them and they settle, Mr. Epstein would pay our fees. And he 9 has written us as of yesterday that he is under no obligation 10 to pay our fees on settling cases. 11 Now, those two matters, I believe, may be breaches. 12 But I am not asking this Court at this time to do anything 13 about them. Nor am I telling the Government, I'm not running 14 to the Government and saying indict him because I want you to 15 pressure him to do what he agreed to. 16 I'm a third-party beneficiary for that agreement, and 17 I may move to enforce certain parts of it. But as far as the 18 issue of staying the litigation, that is the exact opposite of 19 the intent and the letter of the NPA. The purpose of the NPA 20 was so that these 34 young ladies, these victims who have been 21 severely traumatized, may move on with their lives. An -to tad}, this ac,tiuu wu d 'be-the- Exact oppusile 23 the purpose of that agreement and would be horrible 24 psychologically for all of my clients. 25 THE COURT: Mr. Josefsberg, I understand your TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001830 EFTA00799757

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 154 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page22of51 22 1 position. And I don't want to argue the merits of whether a 2 stay should or should not be granted. 3 I'm just trying to understand what the ground rules 4 are going to be if I grant a stay or if I deny a stay. And 5 I've already denied a stay once. I have to decide this current 6 motion, and I just want to know what is going to happen if I 7 deny the stay in terms of Mr. Epstein's exposure under the 8 non-prosecution agreement. That's my concern. 9 So if you're telling me that you're not going to urge 10 the United States, on behalf of any of your clients, to take 11 the position that he's breached the agreement because he's 12 taking depositions, because he's pursuing discovery, because 13 he's conducting investigations that anyone in any other type of 14 civil litigation might conduct with respect to plaintiffs that 15 are pursuing claims against a defendant, that those typical 16 types of actions, in your judgment, are not breaches of the 17 agreement and that he can go forward and defend the case as any 18 other defendant could defend, and you're not going to run to 19 the United States and say, hey, he's breaching the agreement by 20 taking depositions and he's breaching the agreement by issuing 21 subpoenas to third parties in order to gather information essary Lu defend, then p u tem7--But 23 going to be accused of breaching the agreement because he sends 24 out a notice of deposition of one of your clients, how is he 25 supposed to defend the case? TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001831 EFTA00799758

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 155 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 23 of 51 23 1 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Your Honor, you're totally correct. 2 He can depose my client. That's not a problem. But the 3 problem is that these are not typical clients and this is not a 4 typical case. He has written in his pleadings that he wants to 5 publish the names of these girls in the newspapers so that 6 other people may come forward to discuss their sexual 7 activities with these different plaintiffs. That's not your 8 typical case. But are rulings that you'll make in this case, 9 and they're not part of the NPA. 10 As far as my going to the Government is concerned, I 11 find it very uncomfortable for me to use the Government to try 12 to pursue my financial interest in litigation. And I know that 13 Mr. Epstein and his counsel will make much ado about it. So I 14 am not going to be running there. 15 However, if they start taking depositions regarding 16 liability, I will consider that to be a breach because they're 17 supposed to have admitted liability. 18 THE COURT: But, again, I don't have the agreement and 19 I don't remember reading the agreement. But what I'm being 20 told is the part of the agreement that admits liability is only 21 as to a 2255 claim, and there are numerous other personal tnjury Lull claims other Ida 2455 -claim. And there's a limit of damages on the 2255 claim, as I 23 24 understand it, but I presume that all the plaintiffs are going 25 to seek more than the limited or capped amount of damages in TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001832 EFTA00799759

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 156 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 24 of 51 Y4 1 the non-prosecution agreement as to the other claims. 2 And so why aren't they entitled to defend and limit 3 the amount of damages that your client is seeking on the 4 non-2255 tort claims? 5 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Your Honor, you are correct. On 6 non-2255 tort claims, they are permitted to do the defense, 7 whatever is appropriate. 8 My cases are pure 2255 on which liability under the 9 agreement is supposed to be admitted. Now, as to the amount of 10 damages, there are legal issues that will be before you and 11 under the C.M.A. cases that are getting before you, as to 12 whether it is 50 or 150. That has nothing to do with the NPA. 13 There are legal issues that are before you as to 14 whether it is per statute, per count. or per incident or per 15 plaintiff. Those have nothing to do with the NPA. There is no 16 amount in NPA. Those will be resolved. 17 Anyone who has brought a case that is outside of 2255, 18 the defense is permitted to contest liability under the NPA. 19 That's no violation. 20 Under the NPA if someone brought a case under just 21 2255, Mr. Epstein, if he is to keep his word, cannot contest —2 tic AndLtttLe would—no—need to s ay L1iiu. ecause- it- 23 is a self-fulfilling agreement. He can contest liability. And 24 as far as the amount of damages, anyone that wants to go over 25 the statutory minimums, of course, he can contest that in any TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001833 EFTA00799760

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 157 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page25of51 2 1 way that is proper under the Rules of Evidence and your 2 rulings. The NPA has no limitation on his contesting damages 3 above the minimum statutory amount. 4 The only thing that he has done is in his actions of 5 refusing to pay for settling defendants, and in his saying that 6 he has no liability under 2255, those appear to be contrary to 7 what's in the NPA. 8 But I'm not in any position right now to claim a 9 1. breach, and I don't know whether I'd be claiming a breach or 10 enforcing it in front of you, suing him for fees, asking you to 11 have him admit liability, or complaining to the Government. 12 And that's why I'm not that helpful in this situation because I 13 think it's the Government's role. 14 But I do not waive the right to be a third-party 15 beneficiary because pursuant to my appointment, which was 16 agreed to by Mr. Epstein, I and my clients have certain rights, 17 and we want to enforce them. 18 But his defending this lawsuit will not in any way be 19 a violation. His getting this lawsuit stayed would be a 20 violation of the spirit of taking care of these girls, and 21 there would be other issues. Like if there is a stay, Your -1115- be pObLiug a bunch 23 THE COURT: We don't need to talk about those issues. 24 That's not my concern. 25 MR. JOSEFSBERG: I agree, Your Honor, we don't. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001834 EFTA00799761

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 158 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page26of51 26 1 THE COURT: That's not my concern. So, again, I just 2 want to make sure that if the cases go forward and if 3 Mr. Epstein defends the case as someone ordinarily would defend 4 a case that's being prosecuted against him or her, that that in 5 and of itself is not going to cause him to be subject to 6 criminal prosecution. 7 MR. JOSEFSBERG: I agree, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: Any other plaintiff's counsel want to 9 chime in? 10 MR. WILLITS: Richard Willits on behalf of C.M.A.. I 11 would join, to weigh in on what Mr. Josefsberg said. 12 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Your Honor, I could not hear. 13 THE COURT: We'll get him to a microphone. 14 Mr. Willits is speaking. 15 MR. WILLITS: On behalf of my client, C.M.A., we join 16 in what Mr. Josefsberg said, and we also want to point out 17i something to the Court. 18 First, we want to make a representation to the Court, 19 we have no intention of complaining to the U.S. Attorney's 20 Office, never had that intention, don't have that intention in 21 the future, but, of course, subject to what occurs in the 23 I want to point out to the Court that Mr. Epstein went 24 into this situation with his eyes wide open, represented by 25 counsel, knowing that civil suits had to be coming. If he TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001835 EFTA00799762

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 159 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 27 of 51 27 1 didn't know it, his lawyers knew it. 2 He appears to be having second thoughts now about he 3 could have negotiated this way or he could have negotiated that 4 way with the U.S. Attorney's Office. And they want to impose 5 their second thoughts on the innocent plaintiffs. We don't 6 think that's fair. We think it's in the nature of invited 7 error, if there was any error whatsoever. 8 Thank you. 9 THE COURT: You agree he should be able to take the 10 ordinary steps that a defendant in a civil action can take and 11 not be concerned about having to be prosecuted? 12 MR. WILLITS: Of course. And we say the same thing 13 Mr. Josefsberg said. It's all subject to your rulings and the 14 direction of this Court as to what is proper and what is not 15 proper. And we're prepared to abide by the rulings of this 16 Court, and we have no intention of running to the State's 17 Attorney. 18 THE COURT: The U.S. Attorney? 19 MR. WILLITS: I'm sorry. The U.S. Attorney. 20 THE COURT: Mr. Garcia. 21 MR. GARCIA: Thank you, Your Honor. efly, I L1,an1. pt. ps-defenercounsel 23 forgot about this, but on pages 17 and 19 of my memorandum of 24 law in opposition to the motion to dismiss, I did make 25 reference to the non-prosecution agreement, and I did say that TOTALACCESSCOURTROOMNETWORKREALTIMETRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001836 EFTA00799763

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 160 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page28of51 28 1 the contesting of the jurisdiction of this Court was a 2 potential breach of the non-prosecution agreement. 3 So my client happens to have, and they have filed with 4 the Court a copy of her state court complaint, given the fact 5 that the non-prosecution agreement limits the non-contesting of 6 jurisdiction to claims exclusively brought under the federal 7 statute. 8 I'm going to go ahead and withdraw those contentions 9 on pages 17 and 19 of my memo of law because it doesn't apply 10i to my case. So to the extent that I raised this issue with 11 defense counsel and the Court, I'm going to withdraw that 12 aspect of it. 13 THE COURT: Can you file something in writing on that 14 point with the Court? 15 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 16 THE COURT: What do you say about this issue that 17 we're here on today? 18 MR. GARCIA: I think that the problem that I have with 19 it is that this non-prosecution agreement is being used by 20 defense counsel for the exact opposite purpose that it was 21 intended. My perception of this thing, and I wasn't around, is essentially •grEilf bought his wartnlr of a criminal 23 prosecution, which is wonderful for the victims in a way, and 24 wonderful for him, too. 25 Now he's trying to use the non-prosecution agreement TOTALACCESSCOURTROOMNETWORKREMJIMEIRANSGUPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001837 EFTA00799764

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 161 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page29of51 29 1 as a shield against the plaintiffs that he was supposed to make 2 restitution for. 3 And, certainly, he can take my client's depo. He's 4 done extensive discovery in the state court case -- very 5 intrusive, I might add. And we don't care, because we can win 6 this case with the prosecution agreement or without the 7 prosecution agreement. We are ready to go forward. 8 THE COURT: You're not going to assert to the United 9 States Government that what he's doing in defending the case is 10 a violation for which he should be further prosecuted? 11 MR. GARCIA: Absolutely not. 12 THE COURT: Anyone else for the plaintiffs? 13 MR. HOROWITZ: Judge, Adam Horowitz, counsel for 14 plaintiffs Jane Doe 2 through 7. 15 I just wanted to address a point that I think you've 16 articulated it. I just want to make sure it's crystal clear, 17 which is that we can't paint a broad brush for all of the 18 cases. 19 The provision relating to Mr. Epstein being unable to 20i contest liability pertains only to those plaintiffs who have 21j chosen as their sole remedy the federal statute. My clients, ane Due 2 through 7, helve elecued to--bring -additional cause 23 of action, and it's for that reason we were silent when you 24i said does anyone here find Mr. Epstein to be in breach of the 25 non-prosecution agreement. That provision, as we understand TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80730-CV-MARRA 001838 EFTA00799765

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 162 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page3Ocg51 30 1 it, it doesn't relate to our clients. 2 THE COURT: Okay. But, again, you're in agreement 3 with everyone else so far that's spoken on behalf of a 4 plaintiff that defending the case in the normal course of 5 conducting discovery and filing motions would not be a breach? 6 MR. HOROWITZ: Subject to your rulings, of course, 7 yes. 8 THE COURT: Thank you. 9 Anyone else have anything to say from the plaintiffs? 10 Ms. Villafana, if you would be so kind as to maybe 11 help us out. I appreciate the fact that you're here, and I 12 know you're not a party to these cases and under no obligation 13 to respond to my inquiries. But as I indicated, it would be 14 helpful for me to understand the Government's position. 15 MS. VILLAFANA: Thank you, Your Honor. And we, of 16 i, course, are always happy to try to help the Court as much as 17 possible. But we are not a party to any of these lawsuits, and 18 in some ways we are at a disadvantage because we don't have 19 access. My access is limited to what's on Pacer. So I don't 20 really know what positions Mr. Epstein may have taken either in 21 correspondence or in discovery responses that aren't filed in Labe fale. 23 But your first order was really just what do you think 24 about a stay, and then the second order related to this hearing 2Sj and asked a much more specific question, which is whether we TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001839 EFTA00799766

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 163 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page31of51 31 1 believe that Mr. Epstein's defense was a breach of the 2 agreement. 3 And I've tried to review as many of the pleadings as 4 possible. As you know, they're extremely voluminous. And I 5 haven't been through all of them. But we do believe that there 6 has been a breach in the filing that Mr. Josefsberg referred 7 to, and contrary to Mr. Critton, we do understand that we have 8 an obligation to provide notice, and we are providing notice to 9 Mr. Epstein today. 10 The pleading that we found to be in breach -- the 11 non-prosecution agreement, sought to do one thing, which was to 12 place the victims in the same position they would have been if 13 Mr. Epstein had been convicted of the federal offenses for 14 which he was investigated. 15 And that if he had been federally prosecuted and 16 convicted, the victims would have been entitled to restitution, 17 regardless of how long ago the crimes were committed, 18 regardless of how old they were at the time, and how old they 19 are today, or at the time of the conviction. 20 And it also would have made them eligible for damages 21 under 2255. 22- - And-s r-our- hoper Was t- we-c 23 a system that would allow these victims to get that restitution 24 without having to go through what civil litigation will expose 25 them to. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001840 EFTA00799767

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 164 of 17W Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 32 of 51 32 1 You have a number of girls who were very hesitant 2 about even speaking to authorities about this because of the 3 trauma that they have suffered and about the embarrassment that 4 they were afraid would be brought upon themselves and upon 5 their families. 6 So we did through the non-prosecution agreement tried 7 to protect their rights while also protecting their privacy. 8 So, pursuant to the non-prosecution agreement -- on the other 9 hand, we weren't trying to hand them a jackpot or a key to a 10 bank. It was solely to sort of put them in that same position. 11 So we developed this language that said if -- that 12 provided for an attorney to represent them. Most of the 13 victims, as you know from the pleadings, come from not wealthy 14 circumstances, may not have known any attorneys who would be in 15 a position to help them. 16 So we went through the Special Master procedure that 17 resulted in the appointment of Mr. Josefsberg, and the goal was 18 that they would be able to try to negotiate with Mr. Epstein 19 for a fair amount of restitution/damages. And if Mr. Epstein 20 took the position, which apparently he has, which is that the 21 $50,000 or $150,000 floor under 2255 also would be a cap. That 22 if they were to proceed to file suit in Federal Court to get 23 fair damages under 2255, Mr. Epstein would admit liability, but 24 he, of course, could fight the damages portion, which means 25 that, of course, he would be entitled to depositions; of TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001841 EFTA00799768

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 165 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page33of51 33 1 course, he would be entitled to take discovery, and we don't 2 believe that any of that violates the non-prosecution 3 agreement. 4 The issue with the pleading that he filed, the motion 5 to dismiss the case, I believe it's Jane Doe 101, represented 6 by Mr. Josefsberg, is that that is a case that was filed 7 exclusively under 18 U.S.C., Section 2255. She met that 8 requirement. Mr. Epstein is moving to dismiss it, not on the 9 basis of damages, he is saying that he cannot be held liable 10 under 2255 because he was not convicted of an offense. 11 The reason why he was not convicted of an offense is 12 because he entered into the non-prosecution agreement. So that 13 we do believe is a breach. 14 The issue really that was raised in the motion to stay 15 and that I addressed in our response to the motion to stay is 16 that Mr. Epstein's -- Mr. Epstein wants to stay the litigation 17 in order to leave, in order to sort of attack the cases of the 18 victims whether they are fully within the non-prosecution or 19 not, non-prosecution agreement or not, and leave the Government 20 without a remedy if he does, in fact, breach those terms. And 21 that is why we opposed the stay. -THE-eOUR-T-r---I-Lnot—sure-what---yotr-mearby-that---lazt--- 23 statement. 24 MS. VILLAFANA: Well, because this issue related to 25 the motion to dismiss on Mr. Josefsberg's client came up after TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001842 EFTA00799769

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM 1 2 3 Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 166 of 176 Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 34of51 34 we had filed that response. And what we said in the response to the motion to stay is that the reason why he wants to stay the litigation is so that the non-prosecution agreement 4 terminates based on a period of time, as he puts it. And then 5 afterwards he would be able to come in here and make all of 6 these arguments that clearly violate the non-prosecution 7 agreement but we would be without remedy. 8 THE COURT: But you're not taking the position that 9 other than possibly doing something in litigation which is a 10 violation of an express provision of the non-prosecution 11 agreement, any other discovery, motion practice, investigations 12 that someone would ordinarily do in the course of defending a 13 civil case would constitute a violation of the agreement? 14 MS. VILLAFANA: No, Your Honor. I mean, civil 15 litigation is civil litigation, and being able to take 16 discovery is part of what civil litigation is about. And while 17 there may be, for example, if someone were to try to subpoena 18 the Government, we would obviously resist under statutory 19 reasons, all that sort of stuff. But, no, Mr. Epstein is 20 entitled to take the deposition of a plaintiff and to subpoena 21 records, etc. -22 "ME COURT: And even it he seeks dicovery rom a 23 Government agency, you have the right to resist it under the 24 rules of procedure but that would not constitute a violation, 25 again unless there's a provision in the prosecution agreement TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001843 EFTA00799770

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM 1 2 3 Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 167 of 176 Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page35of51 35 that says I can't do this? MS. VILLAFANA: Correct. THE COURT: That's your position? 4 MS. VILLAFANA: Yes. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. 6 MS. VILLAFANA: Thank you, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: Mr. Critton, did you want to add anything? 8 MR. CRITTON: Yes, sir. Just a few responses to some 9 of the issues that have been raised. 10 The most glaring, at least from our perspective, is 11 both Mr. Josefsberg's comments that he believes that there's a 12 violation of the NPA as well as Ms. Villafana with regard to 13 Jane Doe 101. 14 Mr. Josefsberg, while he was the attorney rep who was 15 selected by Judge to represent a number of individuals, 16 alleged victims that may have been on the list, he represents 17 many of them. And the type of response that was filed in 101 18 would probably be very similar to what we will file if he 19% files -- and he filed 102 as well. But if he files 103, 104 20 and 105, or whatever number he files, we may well take that 21 same legal position in our motions and in our response or in rep y. 23 And what we've been, in essence, told today is we 24 consider that to be a violation of the NPA under the 25 circumstances. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001844 EFTA00799771

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 168 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page36of51 36 1 102 is a perfect example that he filed is, we have 2 e-mails going back and forth between the Government and my 3 clients' attorneys at the time that suggested that 102 probably 4 doesn't even fit within the statute of limitations. 5 So under Mr. Josefsberg's argument is as well, we've 6 only brought a 2255 claim. We don't care whether she's within 7 or is outside the statute of limitations. Because she was on 8 the list and under the circumstances, he has to admit 9 liability, which we contest is under that set of circumstances 10 you're stuck with it. You can fight damages if you can, but 11 she's a real person and you can't raise statute of limitations. 12 The other point that kind of strikes out is there's 13 probably a difference. And I'm happy to provide a copy of the 14 NPA or a redacted portion of the NPA which deals with the civil 15 issues, which are paragraphs 7, 8, 9 and 10, and the entire 16 addenda in camera for the Court to look at, if plaintiff's 17 counsel and the Government, I guess, really, because they're 18 not a party, is if they have no objection because they all have 19 access based on a prior court order to the non-prosecution 20 agreement. 21 So I'm happy to provide that to the Court today and effeiWit- to counsel so that the Court can review that. 23 But our position with regard to the 2255 claims is 24 that -- there were two types of claims that could be filed, one 25 was consensual litigation, the second was contested litigation. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001845 EFTA00799772

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 169 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page37of51 37 1 And under the consensual, in essence, which Mr. Epstein did, is 2 he's offered $50,000 of the statutory minimum for that time 3 period to all of those individuals. 4 THE COURT: Can I interrupt you a second? 5 MR. CRITTON: Yes, sir. 6 THE COURT: I'm not here, and I don't believe it's my 7 role to decide whether or not there is or is not a breach of 8 the agreement. I'm just trying to understand what the 9 Government's position is regarding your defending these cases. 10 Now, I'm just saying this as an example. If, for 11 example, in the non-prosecution agreement there was a provision 12 that said explicitly: Jeffrey Epstein shall not move to 13 dismiss any claim brought under 2255 by any victim no matter 14 how long ago the allegations or the acts took place, period. 15 If that was in the agreement and you filed a motion to 16 dismiss by someone who brought a claim, it might sound like it 17 might be a violation. 18 MR. CRITTON: I agree. 19 THE COURT: So you would know that when you filed your 20 motion because it was right there for you to read. 21 And so to stay the case because I want to do something 22 t at t e contract expressly prohibits me from doing, so stay 23 the case until the agreement expires so then I can do something 24 that the agreement said I couldn't do so you won't be in fear 25 of prosecuting, I'm not sure that that is what I'm concerned TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001846 EFTA00799773

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 170 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 38of51 38 1 2 3 4I 5 6 7 about. I'm concerned about discovery, investigation, motion practice, that's not prohibited by a provision of the agreement. If there's something that's prohibited by the agreement that you, knowing what the agreement says, go ahead and do, anyway, I guess that's a risk you're going to have to take. If there's a legitimate dispute about it, I guess some 8 arbiter is going to decide whether it's a breach or not. 9 But, again, that's something you and Mr. Burman, 10 Mr. Goldberger, and you are all very good lawyers, and he's got 11 a whole list of lawyers representing him, and you've got the 12 agreement and you're going to make legal decisions on how to 13 proceed, and you're going to have to go and make your own 14 decisions. 15 I'm concerned about things that aren't in the 16 agreement, that aren't covered, that you're going to be accused 17 of violating because, again, you take depositions, you send out 18 subpoenas, you file motions that are not prohibited by the 19 agreement. And that's what I'm concerned about. 20 MR. CRITTON: And I understand that, Your Honor. 21 But at the same time, it's as if the lawyers and the c rents, based upon our interpretation orme agreemen , an• 23 believe me, we would not have filed 101, the motion to dismiss, 24 but for believing that there was a good faith basis to do that 25 under the circumstances. TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001847 EFTA00799774

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 171 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 39 of 51 n 1 And now, in essence, we're being accused not only by 2 -- not accused, but it's been suggested that there's a breach 3 of the NPA, not only by Mr. Josefsberg on behalf of 101, but as 4 well Ms. Villafana on behalf of the United States. 5 That's the perfect example. They're basically saying 6 we think you violated. We may send you notice under the 7 circumstances. So does that mean that on 101 we have to back 8 off of it because we think in good faith that it's a motion and 9 is that something that this Court ultimately will rule? 10 THE COURT: I don't know that I'm the one who is going 11 to make that decision. Again, that's not the kind of thing 12 that I was concerned about. I was more concerned about the 13 normal, ordinary course of conducting and defending a case that 14 would not otherwise expressly be covered under the agreement, 15 that you're going to then have someone say, ah, he's sent a 16 notice of deposition, he's harassing the plaintiffs. I don't 17 know if there's a no contact provision in the agreement or no 18 harassment type of provision in the agreement. Ah, this is a 19 breach because you sent discovery, or he's issuing subpoenas to 20 third parties trying to find out about these victims' 21 backgrounds, he's breaching the agreement. Those are The kind of things th-a-E 3 was worried about. 23 MR. CRITTON: The concern that we have is as part of 24 doing this general civil litigation, it's not just the 25 discovery process. And I understand the issues that the Court TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001848 EFTA00799775

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 172 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page40of51 40 1 has raised. 2 But part of it is that often cases are disposed of 3 either on a summary basis or certainly legal issues that come 4 before the Court during the course of the case, just like in a 5 criminal case. That's clearly part of the, I'd say the defense 6 of the case under the circumstances; and if, in fact, an 7 individual can't legally bring a cause of action for certain 8 reasons, such as has been suggested in 101, and may be 9 suggested in 102 when that pleading is filed, that certainly is 10 a position that puts my client at risk. 11 As another example that I use with C.M.A., that they 12 filed this 30-count complaint. Now, they have the state court 13 claims as well. But they, in essence, have said they filed 14 another pleading with the Court that says depending on what the 15 Court rules, in essence, on whether we can file multiple claims 16 or one cause of action with multiple violations, we may dump 17 the state court claims and, therefore, we'll just ride along on 18 that. That's a very different -- 19 Mr. Epstein would never have entered into, nor would 20 his attorneys have allowed him to enter into that agreement 21 under those circumstances where he had this unlimited lability. Tom£ clearly was never envIslonea- by any of the 23 defendants -- by the defendant or any of his lawyers under the 24 circumstances. 25 And if that's claimed to be a violation, either by the TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 001849 08-80736-CV-MARRA EFTA00799776

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 173 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 41 of 51 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 attorneys; i.e., he's not recapitulating on liability under the 2255, and that's all we have now. That's our exclusive remedy. And the Government says, yeah, that's right, that's a violation of the NPA. It again chills us from moving forward, filing the necessary motion papers and taking legal positions that may put my client at risk for violating the NPA and then creating the irreparable harm of, after having been in jail, after having pled guilty to the state court counts, after registering on release as a sex offender, he's complied and done everything, taken extraordinary efforts to comply with the NPA, puts him at substantial risk. And that's what our worry is moving forward. MR. JOSEFSBERG: Your Honor, may I be heard. May I make three comments? It will take less than a minute. THE COURT: Yes, sir. MR. JOSEFSBERG: Mr. Critton refers to the alleged victims. I want you to know that our position is that pursuant to the NPA they're not alleged victims. They are actual, real victims, admitted victims. Secondly, he argues about the statute of limitations on 102. I know that you don't want to hear about that, and I'm not going to comment about it. But please don't take our lack of argument about this as being we agree with anything. Last and most important, we totally agree with Mr. Critton in his suggestion that he hand you a copy of the TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001850 EFTA00799777

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 174 of 176 Case9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 42 of 51 42 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 NPA. I think that many of the questions you asked will be answered when you read the NPA, and I think it's very unfair of everyone who is sitting in front of you who have the NPA to be discussing with you whether it's being breached, whether there should be a stay when you're not that familiar with it. if we would give you a copy of it, I think it would be much more helpful in making your ruling. THE COURT: Maybe Judge Colvat will resolve this issue 9 for me. 10 MR. JOSEFSBERG: Even if he doesn't, Your Honor, 11 believe we are allowed to show it to you. 12 THE COURT: I'll tell you what: I'll wait for Judge 13 Colvat to rule, and then if he rules that it should remain 14 sealed, then I'll consider whether or not I want to have it 15 submitted to me in camera. 16 Anything else, Mr. Joscfsberg? 17 MR. JOSEFEBBRG: No. I thank you on behalf of myself 18 and the other counsel on the phone for permitting us to appear 19 by phone. 20 THE COURT: All right. Anyone else have anything they 21 want to add? MIUMMITAIMS-: -Brad BeWards on—bEhalt or Jane Doe. 23 I only had one issue here, and when I read your motion 24 that you wanted to hear on the narrow issue of just defense in 25 the civil actions filed against him violates the TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001851 EFTA00799778

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 175 of 176 Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page43of51 43 1 non-prosecution agreement, I was expecting that we were going 2 to hear something from the Government similar to the affidavit 3 that was filed by Mr. Epstein's attorneys wherein he indicates 4 as of the day of this affidavit attached to the motion to stay, 5 the U.S. Attorney's Office has taken the position that Epstein 6 has breached the non-prosecution agreement and it names 7 specifically investigation by Epstein of this plaintiff and 8 other plaintiffs, Epstein's contesting damages in this action. 9 Epstein, or his legal representatives, making statements to the 101 press. And we didn't hear any of those things. 11 So that's what I was expecting that the U.S. 12 Attorney's Office was going to expound on and say, yea, we've 13 made some communications to Epstein. He's violating. 14 what we're hearing right now, today, just so that I'm 15 clear, and I think the Court is clear now, is that the 16 non-prosecution agreement is what it is. There have been no 17 violations, but for maybe what Mr. Josefsberg brought up. 18 But there are very few restrictions on Mr. Epstein. 19 He went into this eyes wide open. And whether or not I agree 20 with the agreement, how it came to be in the first place, is 21 neither here nor there. - S-4E—thre have been no violations or bleacheo up to 23 this point. And his affidavit that was filed, I'm just 24i troubled by where it even came from. I mean, it's making 25 specific allegations that the U.S. Attorney's Office is TOTAL ACCESS COURTROOM NETWORK REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001852 EFTA00799779

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Case 9:08-cv-80119-KAM 1 2 3 4 Document 403-19 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/02/2017 Page 176 of 176 Document 180 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/24/2009 Page 44 of 51 44 threatening a breach, and this is part of the motion to stay, which we're all battling here. So I just wanted to indicate to the Court or remind the Court that there have been specific allegations made, the 5 United States Attorney's Office is making these allegations of 6 breach, which we haven't heard any of the evidence of. 7 Thank you. 8 THE COURT: All right. 9 Ms. villafana, did you want to respond to that 10 suggestion that there were other allegations of breach besides 11 the one that you've just mentioned today? 12 MS. VILLAFANA: No, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Thank you. I appreciate your giving me 14 the information, which I think has been very helpful today, and 15 I'll try and get an order out as soon as possible. 16 (Court adjourned at 11:10 a.m.). 17 CERTIFICATE 18 I hereby certify that the foregoing is an accurate 19 transcription of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. 20 s/Larry Herr 21. DATE LARRY HERR, RPR-CM-RMR-FCRSC 22 Official United States Court Reporter 400 N. Miami Avenue 23 Miami, FL 33128 - 305/523-5290 (Fax) 305/523-5639 24 email: [email protected] 25 Quality Assurance by Proximity Ungulbase Technologies 08-80736-CV-MARRA 001853 EFTA00799780