LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 201 1 even - that's - I don't remember. 2 MR. : Do you know if a camera 3 in the SHU was ever down? 4 MR. : Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. What camera? 6 MR. : I know that there were issues 7 with the cameras because we had done a program 8 review before then, and there was cameras down 9 in Ten South. So, we had got those fixed. You 10 know, in the -- 11 MR. : Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : -- in the individual cells. 13 MR. : Yup. 14 MR. : And then, there was a camera 15 system that was down because I believe they was 16 doing some type of maintenance on the ranges, 17 or something like that, that everyone was aware 18 of. That's all I can remember. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : And I don't remember 21 specifics and timeframes, but -. 22 MR. : All right. But you don't 23 know specifically if, like, for instance, the 24 range that Epstein was on, that camera was out 25 or not? EFTA00126562

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 202 1 MR. : That, I don't know that for - 2 - 3 MR. : You're not sure? 4 MR. : -- yeah, no. 5 MR. : Okay. But again, if it 6 was, it would have been Daniels and - what did 7 you say the last name was? ? 8 MR. •. . 9 MR. : And how do you spell that 10 last name? 11 MR. •. i_ . 12 MR. : Can you say that one more 13 time? 14 MR. : ,- -. 15 MR. : Perfect. 16 MR. •. . 17 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 18 MR. : Just had a quick question. 19 Who was that conversation about, the 20 discussion? You mentioned there was a 21 discussion -- 22 MR. : Mr. Daniels. 23 MR. : no, you -- 24 MR. : You say -. 25 MR. : -- when that discussion would EFTA00126563

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 have happened. 2 MR. : Oh. 3 MR. : Right? I think that's the 4 date of (Indiscernible *00:55:07). 5 MR. : Well, no, it says, "Mr. 6 Daniels, the Camera Technician, notified 7 that he was working on the system earlier that 8 week." He's saying that he left early 9 Thursday, when the discussion about the camera 10 system would have occurred. 11 MR. : Would have. So, he should 12 known -- 13 MR. : If there was a 14 conversation. But you don't know that there 15 was? 16 MR. : No. 17 MR. : Okay. Sorry. 18 MR. : Because, like, in close out, 19 or if there was something with the Warden that 20 day, normally on Thursdays, at times, you know, 21 it was for my - I have a disease. So, I would 22 go for blood work on Thursdays, when I could, 23 if an institution emergency, you know, but 24 normally, on Thursday, I would leave early on 25 Thursdays. I would take a half a day. EFTA00126564

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 204 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : To go to my medical 3 appointments. So, if there was a meeting that 4 was convened about the camera systems, I wasn't 5 present at that meeting. 6 MR. : But whatever 7 MR. : However, I know that a camera 8 project was going on during that time, which 9 Mr. Daniels was responsible for installing the 10 new - I don't know what - I can't remembering 11 what you call it - but it's a system, because 12 our system was antiquated, so they was doing 13 camera repairs. So -- 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : -- there was certain cameras 16 down, in certain areas of the institution. But 17 he was actively working on that. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : So. 20 MR. : So, if there was a 21 meeting, that you are not aware of, on 22 Thursday, who would have been present for ltf 23 MR. : For a meeting with the 24 Warden? 25 MR. : It would have been with EFTA00126565

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 205 1 the Warden? 2 MR. : Yeah. It would have been - I 3 mean, the Warden would have known if someone 4 had a meeting about the camera system being 5 down, and then, probably the Facilities 6 Manager, which is It would have been 7 the AW of Custody, at that time, which would 8 have been Ms. . And of course, it 9 would have been the Warden. 10 MR. : Didn't you say it was 11 actually somebody else? was no 12 longer the custody? 13 MR. : Ms. Ms. was 14 there, but she had just got there. So -- 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. -- she was over another 17 discipline. So, that would have been the 18 meeting with the executive staff. 19 MR. : Okay. So, it was the 20 executive staff meeting. Would that meeting 21 also have taken place if the cameras are still 22 down on Friday? Would it have taken place on 23 Friday, as well? 24 MR. : That would have been Friday, 25 as well. EFTA00126566

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 206 1 MR. : But you weren't involved 2 with a meeting like that? 3 MR. : No. 4 MR. : And you don't know of a 5 meeting taking place? 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. : Okay. Would it have 8 taken place every day that the camera was down, 9 or just the first day? 10 MR. : There would have been an 11 update because the person that falls under 12 that, the contact, is . So, the AW over 13 Facilities would have wanted an update, weekly 14 report, as well as the Captain. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : Because that's a Security 17 issue. So, we would have wanted - but the 18 camera system was down because of - I think it 19 was some routine maintenance that they was 20 doing anyway. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : So -. 23 MR. : Now, would any 24 Lieutenants or SHU staff have known that the 25 camera was down? EFTA00126567

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 207 1 MR. : Some - I mean, they don't 2 have the ability to monitor. 3 MR. : Right. 4 MR. : But, you know, of course, the 5 ones in Ten South, you know -- 6 MR. : Yeah, where they are live 7 monitoring. 8 MR. : Yeah. The live monitoring. 9 So, of course. 10 MR. : And do you know - and you 11 don't know, though, even to this date, if a 12 camera was, in fact, down? 13 MR. : I can't remember. 14 MR. : In fact? 15 MR. : I don't know. 16 MR. : Okay. No. That's fine. 17 I was just going to ask, even if it wasn't 18 recording, do you know if it was, like, being a 19 live monitor, or anything like that -- 20 MR. : Right. 21 MR. : -- or it could have been. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : But you're unaware? 24 MR. : III unaware. 25 MR. : Okay. Okay. So, "After EFTA00126568

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 208 1 receiving the phone call from on the 2 morning of Saturday, August 10, 2019, 3 notified Associate Warden, , who 4 informed the Warden. also attempted to 5 call Institution Duty Officer, 6 7 MR. Yup. 8 MR. : To Chaplin, and in the 9 building, to get more information." What does 10 that mean by, "In the building"? Do you know? 11 MR. : So, basically, you know, it 12 was just -- 13 MR. : Like, the main number? 14 MR. : -- it was just a bunch of, 15 you know, people that we tried to notify, 16 tried to notify. So, I think I notified Ms. 17 of course. She notifies the 18 Warden. I notified the IDO. I said, hey, 19 because inmate death, they needed me coming 20 into the institution, because that's one of 21 their off times, so they needed to be making a 22 - because they're going to be responsible for 23 making certain calls to the Region. I notified 24 the Chaplin, because Chaplin made sure, 25 (Indiscernible *00:59:19) also, I believe EFTA00126569

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 209 1 informed them to call Mr. Plord (Phonetic Sp. 2 *00:59:25), which was the Executive Assistant. 3 I think Mr. Plord or I may have called Mr. 4 Johnson, the Attorney, for MCC. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : And III trying to think who 7 else. 8 MR. : No, that's fine. 9 MR. : Was there. 10 MR. : And it says that, 11 went to the MCC, arriving before 8:00 III. 12 approximately." 13 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : "Upon arrival, 15 screened in and retrieved his gear from the 16 third floor. He went to the SHU and signed the 17 logbook. He gathered any records pertaining to 18 Epstein, including the 30-minute round logbook, 19 the Attorney conference logbook, count slips, 20 and E-ls." What are E-ls? 21 MR. : So, all this stuff right 22 here. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : So, you basically, I walk 25 through the building, I know the protocol, EFTA00126570

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 210 1 because what happens is, these things will come 2 up missing, then you have no evidence. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : So, I secured count slips, 5 the E-ls. I went to SHU. I got all of the 6 logbooks that I knew where Epstein had been. 7 grabbed those logbooks. I went to SHU. I took 8 his inmate SHU file from the Special Housing, 9 plus all of the round sheets (Indiscernible 10 *01:00:34). 11 MR. : This actually says "He 12 could not locate Epstein's inmate file." Do 13 you remember that? 14 MR. : It was a file, but it had 15 limited stuff in there. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : So, his actual file, yeah, is 18 had his picture, had a couple things on there, 19 but it wasn't anything in it. 20 MR. : So, when this says, "Not 21 locate a file," you located the file, it was 22 just a -- 23 MR. : It was empty. 24 MR. : -- it was empty. And is 25 that abnormal? EFTA00126571

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : No. It is not normal. 2 MR. : Oh, it's not normal? 3 MR. : It's not normal. No. 4 MR. : And do you think that 5 somebody removed things from it? 6 MR. No, III not going to make 7 that accusation. I don't know. I would just 8 say, that's not a normal instances, that being 9 working as a former OIC, being a Correctional 10 Officer, and all of that stuff, that's not 11 normal. 12 MR. : What stuff is usually in 13 there? 14 MR. : I can tell you, it would be 15 his - all of the intake screening stuff that we 16 do on the inmates, the expectations, the cell 17 assignment things that the inmate is supposed 18 to sign, the clothing issue forms. It would be 19 292s in there. It would be a - the SROs. It 20 would also be the Psychology, where Psychology 21 comes to see these guys, that those notes 22 should be placed in there. 23 MR. : And none of that was In 24 there? 25 MR. : None of that was in there. EFTA00126572

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 212 1 MR. : And where is that file 2 located? 3 MR. : It's supposed to be located 4 in the OIC, right there -- 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. -- in the OIC. 7 MR. : When you say "The OIC," 8 is that the SHU, where the OIC sits? 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : And so, anyone could have 11 had access to that? 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : And had you ever seen the 14 file before that time? 15 MR. : I would - no. 16 MR. : Did you ever locate it 17 after that time? 18 MR. : No. 19 MR. : So, it's likely that 20 someone took documents out? If they should have 21 been in there and they're not in there, is that 22 23 MR. : Correct. 24 MR. : -- so, someone likely - 25 III not saying -- EFTA00126573

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 213 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : -- who did it, but 3 someone likely did? 4 MR. : In my belief, yes, those 5 documents were purposefully taken. 6 MR. : And can you think of a 7 reason why they would have been taken? 8 MR. : I don't know, sir. 9 MR. : All right. But you had 10 never seen them before? 11 MR. : No, sir. That was -- 12 MR. : And who would be the 13 MR. -- that wouldn't be my 14 purview to go through, to audit those files. 15 MR. : Who would be -- 16 MR. : That's the -. 17 MR. : -- the person to ask 18 about that? 19 MR. : That would have been the 20 Lieutenant. 21 MR. : So, Lieutenant 22 MR. : Lieutenant . Or the 23 Lieutenant -- 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : -- he would have been the one EFTA00126574

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 214 1 that would have audited those files. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Because they do the SROs. 4 MR. : And did you ask him where 5 the file was? 6 MR. : Of course. I called him. 7 MR. : And what did he say? 8 MR. : He didn't know. He had no 9 knowledge. 10 MR. : All right. So, he 11 claimed he doesn't know 12 MR. : Right. 13 MR. : -- anything about it. 14 MR. : Because -. 15 MR. : Did he ever say he looked 16 at the file before? 17 MR. : No. No. I don't remember 18 him saying that. But when I called him that 19 Saturday, because I had conversations with 20 Lieutenant on that Saturday and that 21 Sunday, because he was supposed to come to work 22 that Sunday. So, once he found out about the 23 situation with Epstein, because I had called 24 him, and I said, hey, man, where is his inmate 25 file? What are you talking about? I said, his EFTA00126575

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 215 1 SHU file is not up there. X, Y, Z. So, I 2 informed him of what happened. Sunday, I get a 3 call that he broke his leg. And then, 4 Lieutenant was out for, like, six months. 5 MR. : And did he really break 6 his leg? 7 MR. : I wouldn't know. 8 MR. : Is there any reason to 9 believe, or had you heard that he actually 10 didn't? 11 MR. : Again, he was supposed to be 12 in that training, like I said, right? That - 13 what do you call it? 14 MR. : I can look it up. 15 MR. when you go for reserves 16 training. 17 MR. : Oh, yeah. 18 MR. : What you do -- 19 MR. : Correct. 20 MR. you do it every month. 21 MR. : Yup. He was in military 22 23 MR. : Right? 24 MR. : training. 25 MR. : Because of his military EFTA00126576

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 216 1 2 3 4 5 6 training. So, he tells me they're doing the PT that next day, which was Sunday, he broke his leg. MR. kind of -- MR. : Did he ever provide any : Or he injured his leg. 7 MR. : -- did he ever provide 8 any documentation? 9 MR. : Hmm-mm. 10 MR. : No? 11 MR. Hmm. He did provide 12 something, but it was from a . I mean, 13 and that was sent through - he provided 14 documentation, but -- 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. -- I can't - I don't - III 17 not a - so, I can't tell you what it is, 18 and III not going to call the to verify 19 if that was the situation, but basically, it 20 said that he had a substantial leg injury that 21 prevented him from coming to work. 22 MR. : So, have you had any 23 conversations with him since? 24 MR. : Oh, he came back - so then, 25 so went out in August - September, EFTA00126577

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 217 1 October, November, December - I think he came 2 back either December or January. 3 MR. : Of 2019? 4 MR. : Of 2020. 5 MR. : Or 2020. 6 MR. : Of 2020. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : Somewhere in that timeframe. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : So, he came back. And he 11 went back up to SHU as the OIC. 12 MR. : And ever any 13 conversations about this matter? 14 MR. : I had discussed it with him 15 on the phone twice. 16 MR. : And tell me about those 17 discussions. 18 MR. : Those discussion. So, 19 basically, I asked him about the inmate file. 20 I had talked to him about, that Sunday, he 21 alerted me that he was injured. When he came 22 back, we had discussions that the staff, when 23 he would - me and were - I go - I would 24 say out of all the Lieutenants - me and 25 we spoke a lot. I thought very highly of him. EFTA00126578

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 1 And he would talk, and he was saying that he 2 was having difficulties with the staff, and his 3 other peers, because he, you know, the 4 appearance was that he faked the injury, and -- 5 MR. : Oh, so there was rumor 6 MR. : -- and not to be a part of 7 what everybody else was going through, during 8 that Epstein situation. So, he was getting it 9 from the Lieutenants, and he was also getting 10 it from the line staff. 11 MR. : Okay. So, on him, is 12 there anything that you know - I know he wasn't 13 there those days - but if there's anything 14 there that he did wrong? 15 MR. Hmm. What - being 16 wrong, III not going to say he did something 17 wrong or purposeful, you know, to say that, you 18 know, to cause the death of inmate Epstein. Of 19 course not. III not going to say that. 20 MR. : Yeah, and III not saying 21 that. III just saying -- 22 MR. But III saying -- 23 MR. : -- it's, like 24 MR. : -- this is, in my opinion, if 25 III a third party, if III a third party - and EFTA00126579

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 219 1 III going to be honest - if III a third party, 2 looking at this, somebody would say, III wrong. 3 They would say, you failed to supervise your 4 staff. You should have been auditing all of 5 the paperwork. You should have been more 6 responsive, or you should have been more 7 responsible, and been in the unit more. You 8 should have done more rounds. You should have 9 did more training. You understand what III 10 saying? 11 MR. : Sure. 12 MR. : But guess what? That's not my 13 purview. As the Captain, Security, I did this, 14 this, that, and the third. But everybody has a 15 job to do in a prison. 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : The Officers have a job, to 18 count, maintain accountability, for the inmate 19 population. The Lieutenants all oversee the 20 staff, and make sure they're doing their jobs 21 right. And then, ultimately, me as the 22 Captain, over the Lieutenants, I have to 23 reassure that they're doing their jobs right. 24 But when you go back and you start going 25 through fine tooth combingthrough documents EFTA00126580

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 220 1 that you thinking that, you know, your staff 2 are doing the right thing, and now you finding 3 out that people are fudging documents, and 4 creating documents that - or counting inmates 5 that wasn't in the institution. 6 MR. : Well, in this instance, 7 it sounds like somebody removed -- 8 MR. : And removed -- 9 MR. : -- files. 10 MR. -- for doing all of these 11 things that, after the fact, you're, like, I 12 can't believe this is happening. 13 MR. : So, if someone removed 14 files, though, III assuming if they're trying 15 to cover something up, it would have happened 16 on, like, the 10th, the 9th or the 10th. 17 MR. : It would have b been -- 18 MR. : Correct? 19 MR. : -- the 10th, as soon as they 20 found out he passed away. 21 MR. : And well, did a lot of 22 people have access to that room, at that time? 23 MR. : It was - at that time - it 24 would have been - and it's not a room. You're 25 talking about for EFTA00126581

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 221 1 MR. : Wherever these -- 2 MR. : -- Epstein? 3 MR. : -- wherever this file was 4 located. 5 MR. : That file. It's, like -- 6 MR. : (Indiscernible 7 *01:08:42). 8 MR. : -- when you come into the 9 unit, you walk into the unit. 10 MR. : All right. This is a 11 good transition. 12 MR. : All right. 13 MR. : I believe that this is a 14 map of the SHU. 15 MR. : Right. 16 MR. : Can you tell me what 17 we're looking at here? Where are the staff 18 located, and where would this file be? And 19 then, where would Epstein's cell be, if you 20 know? My understanding is that his cell was the 21 closest to them, and approximately 15 feet 22 away. 23 MR. : Shit. 24 MR. : But that's without ever 25 putting eyes on it. EFTA00126582

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 MR. : Right. All right. 2 MR. : Aside from video. 3 MR. : So, the office. Bird cage. 4 Office. III trying to figure out which one is 5 the entrance into the unit. 6 MR. : Speaking of entrance into 7 the Unit, my understanding is that there are 8 two ways - two doors that you've got to go 9 through. One is the Control -- 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : -- accesses, and then, 12 the interior is what the SHU staff -- 13 MR. : Yes. 14 MR. : -- and how do they open 15 it from the SHU staff? Is it -- 16 MR. : By a key. 17 MR. -: -- by a key? 18 MR. : By a key. 19 MR. : And what is the key 20 called? Is it a gate key? 21 MR. : It's a prison key. 22 MR. : Oh, just a prison key. 23 It's not a special name? 24 MR. : Folger (Phonetic Sp. 25 *01:09:52). EFTA00126583

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Excuse me? 2 MR. : It's a Folger key. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : It's a prison key. 5 MR. : But it's not, like, a 6 special name that you call it in the SHU? 7 MR. : No. It's the OIA number 8 one's keys. 9 MR. : Okay. But so, they 10 physically have to open the - in order to get 11 anyone in or out of the SHU - they physically 12 have to open the -- 13 MR. : After they open it. 14 MR. : -- and there's only one 15 way in and out? 16 MR. : Right. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : No, but I mean, yeah. Yes. 19 Precisely. III trying to figure out - even 20 this is orientation of me looking at this - is 21 III trying to figure out because I know this is 22 - this is the floor. 23 MR. : III assuming there's a -- 24 MR. : There's your stairs. So, III 25 trying to figure out, this is L. Yeah, that's EFTA00126584

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 224 1 L. Then you've got J. So, he was on L-tier, 2 right? 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : So, L-tier, it wouldn't be 5 like this. And then, you would have had the 6 Officer Station, which, this would have been 7 the Officer Station. And that's going to the 8 Officer Station. There would have been a file 9 cabinet because the desks go around like so. 10 MR. : Have you ever seen the video 11 of the SHU? Where the Officer Station is. 12 MR. : You're talking about when the 13 staff -- 14 MR. : The camera. The camera. 15 MR. : -- so, that camera is by the 16 27 door, I believe. And that shines from where 17 the entrance of ZB, of -- 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : -- that shines down like 20 that. 21 MR. : Is that -- 22 MR. : And then, L-tier is right 23 here. 24 MR. : -- yeah. Is that pointed 25 right behind the desk, to the left of the desk? EFTA00126585

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 225 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : Okay. That's what you 3 pointed at? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : So, that's what I was showing 7 you. So, that camera - in essence - that 8 camera would be right there. 9 MR. : So, it would be clearly 10 showing that file cabinet, if we reviewed that 11 camera? 12 MR. Yup. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : So, that file cabinet sat 15 right behind the desk. So, hopefully that's 16 better orientation. And then, the cell, I 17 think is L-tier, that Jeffrey Epstein was 18 assigned to was 16. 19 MR. : When you say "assigned to 20 21 MR. : Or something like that. 22 MR. : -- it sounds like, was he 23 not in that cell? 24 MR. : He wasn't in the right cell. 25 He was not there. EFTA00126586

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 226 1 MR. : He was in a different 2 cell than he was assigned? 3 MR. : You didn't know that? 4 MR. : No. Well, tell me about 5 this. So, where -? So, is this the first time 6 that he was ever not in the right cell? 7 MR. : He was not in the right cell, 8 sir. After we went back and we started looking 9 at the Sentry paperwork and all that stuff, 10 that inmate was not in the right cell for six 11 days. So, that mean 12 MR. : For six days, he was in 13 the wrong -- 14 MR. : -- so, basically, he was 15 assigned to this cell, he died in this cell. 16 MR. : But for six days, he was 17 going to the wrong cell? So, it wasn't, like, 18 just the one day he was found dead? 19 MR. : Right. So, they had him 20 quartered over here, but it was inmates already 21 over there. And then, you understand what III 22 saying? But he was found in this cell. 23 MR. : I don't understand when 24 you say -- 25 MR. : Wait. Let's point to the EFTA00126587

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 227 1 cell. Because I just want to get an idea. 2 MR. : But I think it's L-. I think 3 he was found on L-tier. Right? Do you know 4 that? 5 MR. : That's my understanding. 6 MR. : Yeah. That's my 7 understanding, too. 8 MR. : -- is L-tier. 9 MR. : L-tier. 10 MR. : Again, I don't know the 11 layout. There's got to be somewhere where it 12 says it on this. 13 MR. : I think it -. 14 MR. : Because that's G. Yeah. 15 That, it should be J and L. So, when you come 16 up the steps, I think this was supposed to be - 17 that's his assignment, this cell over here, but 18 he was found in one of these cells over here. 19 MR. : Now, do you know why? Did 20 you ask that question? 21 MR. : Because what they were doing 22 consistently is, is that when we do cell 23 rotations, which is supposed to be done between 24 every 30 days. Okay? 25 MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00126588

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 228 1 MR. : They may have moved the 2 inmates, but they weren't changing the PP-34 3 transaction in Sentry. 4 MR. : All right. So, what -. 5 MR. : So, the inmates were moved, 6 right? Physically, but the Sentry paperwork 7 would never be done. 8 MR. : So, he was supposed to be 9 moved, they just didn't follow with what their 10 necessary paperwork? 11 MR. : No. He was in this cell. 12 They must have moved him in Sentry. They must 13 have moved him, right? But he - when the Sentry 14 assignment came up - it showed that he was 15 still remained assigned to that cell, instead 16 of him being physically found in this cell. 17 MR. : But what III saying is, 18 like, it sounds, like, they were supposed to 19 move him, they just never did the paperwork to 20 say that he was moved? 21 MR. : Correct. 22 MR. : Okay. So, it's not, 23 like, I mean, I guess they technically put him 24 in the wrong cell because he wasn't technically 25 assigned to that, but the move was supposed to EFTA00126589

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 229 1 happen, they just didn't follow with the 2 administrative part of it. 3 MR. : Right. 4 MR. : Okay. So -- 5 MR. : So, you -. 6 MR. : -- so, aside from the 7 administrative failure, is there any other 8 suspicion about the fact that he wasn't in the 9 assigned cell? 10 MR. : It was, and also, the 11 suspicion was, why did he have so much linen? 12 And so many t-shirts, and so many blankets. 13 No. We're taught you get one blanket, maybe 14 two. 15 MR. : And what -. 16 MR. : You get one, two, until you 17 get two t-shirts, two boxers, two pairs of 18 socks. 19 MR. : Was that question asked? 20 I mean, did you ask, like, , or any of the 21 SHU staff since then? 22 MR. : Of course. 23 MR. : And what did they say? 24 MR. : I mean, they're going to be, 25 like, I don't - how would I know? EFTA00126590

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 230 1 MR. : Who was responsible? 2 MR. : But you know what? That 3 happens all the time, sir. Because I will tell 4 you, I could clean out SHU. I've done it. And 5 they could say, I've went up there physically, 6 supervisors going in there, cleaning out the 7 SHU. I think I did it three or four times. 8 Well, and then, less than a week, I could go do 9 rounds, and inmates got all the stuff back. 10 MR. : Who was responsible for 11 giving it to them? 12 MR. : The staff because staff have 13 the keys. 14 MR. : And they just say, you 15 need more, here you go? 16 MR. : Here you go. 17 MR. : Well, would the staff do 18 it, or would the Lieutenant do it, or -? 19 MR. : I don't think Lieutenants 20 would do it. 21 MR. : So, the -- 22 MR. : It's more of a staff. 23 MR. : -- okay. 24 MR. : Because they don't want to 25 hear an inmate crying. EFTA00126591

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 231 1 MR. : Now, is -. 2 MR. : Kicking on the door. 3 MR. : Is having those extra 4 linens, and those extra, you know, boxers or 5 whatever, is that a security issue? 6 MR. : Yes. 7 MR. : And why is that a 8 security issue? 9 MR. : Because ultimately, that 10 gives the inmates the materials to be able to 11 make homemade fashioned and improvised nooses. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Or they'll build a TT, and 14 use it as escape paraphernalia, just like they 15 did in Chicago. Tie that stuff together, they 16 broke out the window, and the inmate had a 17 rope. That's why we don't give inmates excess 18 clothing. 19 MR. : Okay. Now, as far as 20 this file, though, you never found out where 21 those -- 22 MR. : No. 23 MR. : -- documents went? 24 MR. : I couldn't find them. 25 MR. : Okay. And when we were EFTA00126592

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 232 1 saying people that had access to this room, was 2 it just a flood of people at that point, coming 3 out? 4 MR. : Anybody that - the people who 5 would be most would know about those files 6 would be the SHU staff. 7 MR. : The SHU staff. 8 MR. : And the Lieutenants. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : Of course. 11 MR. : And what would be in 12 those files that possibly people wouldn't want 13 people to see? 14 MR. : I mean, the only thing, I 15 mean, that would be in there, like I said, 16 292s, because you're supposed to do them every 17 day. 18 MR. : And what are 292s? 19 MR. : 292s basically are, it shows 20 the inmates activities in the unit, daily. It 21 talks about if the inmate - any time the inmate 22 is out of the SHU time, out of cell time, it's 23 annotated on the 292. When the inmate showers, 24 when the inmate exercises, when the inmate 25 eats. Every meal. EFTA00126593

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 1 MR. : Now, in your opinion, 2 would it be 3 MR. : For a 24-hour period. 4 MR. : -- would these documents 5 be missing because they were potentially 6 falsified, or because they might show something 7 about the death of Epstein? 8 MR. : It would show if he wasn't 9 taking meals. And they didn't report it. It 10 would show if the inmate wasn't afforded any 11 outside recreation time. Or any out of cell 12 time. But we know he wasn't getting that 13 because he was going to Attorney conference. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : But those forms, no, they 16 wouldn't show that the inmate, you know, all of 17 that stuff is just administrative stuff that we 18 track for every inmate. 19 MR. : That's why III just 20 trying to figure out what would be the purpose 21 of taking those files? 22 MR. : Is there a possibility the 23 file was never updated? 24 MR. : I don't believe that. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00126594

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 234 1 MR. : And who would be updating 2 the files? Just anybody in SHU? 3 MR. : That would be the OIC. Every 4 Sunday. You're printing out all the 292s, then 5 you put them in the file. 6 MR. : So, on Sundays. Is it 7 one person that typically -? 8 MR. : The OICs. Normally, the OIC 9 on morning watch would do that. They would 10 print out all of the 292s, and they would put 11 them all in each file. 12 MR. : Do you know, at this 13 time, around the August 9th and August 10th, 14 who would have been responsible for those 15 files, and printing those out, and putting them 16 in? 17 MR. : That would have been either 18 the - that would have probably been the SHU 19 staff - it would have been either, it would 20 probably be 21 MR. would have been? 22 MR. : Because she was assigned as 23 the - that would have been one of the 24 responsibilities of the SHU One. But that 25 would have been on Sunday. EFTA00126595

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 235 1 MR. : Yeah. Sunday. That's 2 what III saying. Do you know, up until this 3 point, though? Like, so, if the file is gone, 4 he's now there for, what? Almost two months. 5 MR. : (Indiscernible *01:19:43). 6 MR. : Would it be one person 7 responsible, or -- 8 MR. : Right. 9 MR. : -- whoever is there on 10 Sunday? 11 MR. : She wouldn't have known. So, 12 I mean, she wouldn't have - that's something, 13 unless you're the full-time SHU OIC, that you 14 would be cognizant of. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : She wouldn't know that. 17 MR. : So, there's that. 18 MR. : Question for you. If he was 19 put on suicide watch, or psych observation, 20 would that file be moved with him? 21 MR. : When the inmate goes on 22 suicide watch, they create another 292 because 23 he's not in the unit. So, that 292 goes down 24 with - and is put on the door. Right? So, that 25 copy of that 292, yeah, that's supposed to go EFTA00126596

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 236 1 to psychology, and the copy is supposed to go 2 back to Correctional Services, to put in his 3 file, to be maintained that, yeah, he was on 4 suicide watch. This would happen. You know, 5 you tell the story. So, yeah. Yeah. It would 6 - all of that information would be in there. 7 MR. : No. But III just asking, is 8 it possible it went to psych observation or 9 wherever that unit is, and never made it back? 10 MR. : It's a possibility. 11 MR. : But then, he's made there 12 since - but it should - like you were saying - 13 it should have been constantly updated. So, 14 from July 30th through August 9th or 10th, 15 there should still be extra stuff in there. 16 Correct? 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : All right. So, let' - 20 keep going here. expressed to 21 that the staff admitted to her they did not: 22 complete rounds, the 3:00 III. and 5:00 III. 23 counts." And that, so, and that's all they 24 admitted to, was those two? Not the ones prior 25 to that? EFTA00126597

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 237 1 MR. : Right. So, when I talked to 2 on the phone, that's what he told me on 3 the phone. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : He said, hey, Cap, the staff 6 told me they didn't do the rounds. 7 MR. : All right. 8 MR. : And I said, okay. 9 MR. : And that, "Officer 10 entered Epstein's cell without supervision." 11 Now, what does that mean? 12 MR. : That means that any time - 13 especially in the Special Housing Unit - any 14 time that cell, it should have been - 15 especially after hours - a Supervisor should 16 have been present. 17 MR. : When he went in to do the 18 life-saving measures, right? 19 MR. : Yup. 20 MR. : Now, do you know if - was 21 and , were they together, and he 22 walked in, or was she, like, down the range? 23 MR. : I believe she was on the 24 down, she was off the tier, and he probably 25 went to go do - doing the breakfast carts, and EFTA00126598

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 238 1 by the time he comes down the tier, and he 2 comes through - so, that means he didn't do a 3 round, because he would have saw him. Right? 4 So, that means he's going around, because 5 that's how feed, as soon as we come on, we 6 don't go this way. We go this way. So, that 7 cell that Epstein was found in, I think it's, 8 like, the second from the in. And so, it's, 9 like, the last cell, and then he was in that 10 next cell. Right? So, they come around the 11 whole area, and when he get to his cell, you 12 observe the inmate unresponsive. So, what 13 you're supposed to do is, you call Control. 14 Control, hey, I've got an unresponsive inmate. 15 Send staff to SHU. Or I've got an unresponsive 16 inmate, please state the medical emergency, 17 send someone to SHU. to Ops, hey, I 18 need you come to the Special Housing Unit. 19 Boom. You come up there. You've got a staff 20 because you don't know if it's a rouse. You 21 just popped down the door and just go in there. 22 You're putting yourself in jeopardy. 23 MR. : Now, does this create 24 suspicion for you, the fact that he went in 25 there by himself? EFTA00126599

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 239 1 MR. : I've seen a lot of stuff at 2 MCC, as far as with security protocols. I've 3 written staff up for violation of security 4 protocols. That instance right there, what he 5 did, wouldn't be uncommon. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Because you try to tell 8 people how to react in an emergency situation, 9 and guess what? Everybody is not going to say 10 how they're going to react. But we do tell 11 them, if you're in the Special Housing Unit, 12 you need to wait until a Supervisor comes on 13 the scene before you pop a door in SHU. 14 MR. : Now, do you know how 15 MR. : Period. 16 MR. : -- he was found? Was he 17 hanging? 18 MR. : I don't know how he was 19 found. 20 MR. : -- was he on the floor? 21 No? 22 MR. : Don't know. I didn't read 23 the autopsy report. I don't know. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : I only know what the news had EFTA00126600

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 240 1 reported. 2 MR. : Okay. It says, "Epstein 3 was placed on the floor to administer life- 4 saving efforts," and that's why I asked, I 5 didn't know if he was still hanging -- 6 MR. : I don't know. 7 MR. : -- he took them off. All 8 right. informed Associate Warden 9 about what Officers and 10 admitted to had concerns 11 about the whereabouts of Epstein's cell mate. 12 Some of his staff were under the impression 13 that Reyes was released from the SHU, which 14 later confirmed was not true." Was not 15 true or was true? You confirmed that -? 16 MR. : He wasn't released from SHU. 17 He wasn't released from SHU. 18 MR. : He was released? 19 MR. : He was released from court. 20 MR. : Oh, okay. 21 MR. : He wasn't released from the 22 institution. Usually, it's from court. 23 MR. : Oh, okay. So, what 24 they're trying to say here is that you guys 25 didn't release him. He went to court, and they EFTA00126601

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 241 1 released him, he never -- 2 MR. : That's right. 3 MR. : -- he never came back. 4 MR. : He never came back. 5 MR. : Okay. But he was 6 released from custody? 7 MR. : Yes. He was released in 8 custody when he went to court 9 MR. : Gotcha. 10 MR. : -- that day. 11 MR. : All right. So, this is 12 worded weird. "The purpose of the 3:00 and the 13 5:00 III. count is to physically count and 14 confirm each person is in their cell. There 15 were no entries of counts in TRUSCOPE the 16 entire night. If technology is down, the 17 Correctional Officers also have the option to 18 document the count on a hard copy form. 19 Although there are no electronic records of 20 counts, hard copies must have been retained." 21 MR. : That is correct. 22 MR. : Is it odd that they 23 didn't enter it into the TRUSCOPE that night? 24 MR. : No, it's not odd. Because I 25 told you, on occasion, the staff member would EFTA00126602

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 242 1 say, oh, I don't have access to TRUSCOPE, but 2 however, they are given hard copies of the 3 count slip, which continues for the 24-hour 4 period. 5 MR. : Right. Yeah. 6 MR. : So, you're continuing to do 7 your rounds. And then, at the end of the 8 rounds, at the end of the week, this is how 9 it's supposed to happen. Because I actually 10 put this in place, because that was one of the 11 vitals that we had during our program review, 12 which we got a hit on. At the end of the week, 13 the Lieutenant is supposed to get them, and he 14 will audit them, to make every sure all of your 15 rounds was conducted in the 40-minutes 16 irregular. If it's not, that staff member is 17 identified, and then, they're given counseling. 18 So, we're trying to stop staff, you know, we 19 try to encourage staff to do the right thing, 20 but if they're not, we're trying to catch it on 21 our level, before it gets reported out. So, 22 even then, you know, the Lieutenants there was 23 sign put up there that it wasn't getting done 24 on a regular basis. 25 MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00126603

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 243 1 MR. : When I input, when I - and 2 then, I have to counsel them, where is my stuff 3 weekly? So, I've counseled them. I've got 4 counseling's for that. 5 MR. : Did you ever counsel 6 either or 7 MR. : No. I don't know if I have a 8 counseling on them. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : No, but before this incident, 11 but no. 12 MR. : It says, "All inmate 13 phone calls in the SHU are monitored, and 14 inmates have limited access to phone calls. 15 All calls should be recorded. was not 16 aware of any issues or complaints with Epstein, 17 related to phone calls. On Saturday, August 18 10, 2019, was told that Epstein made a 19 phone call at approximately 7:00 III. on the 20 evening of Friday, August 9, 2019. It is 21 uncommon to make an unrecorded phone call in 22 the SHU, and would advise against it 23 because calls should be surveilled. Inmates 24 can make a recorded phone call in the 25 Lieutenant's Office, where it is documented in EFTA00126604

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 244 1 a monitored logbook. In the SHU, Correctional 2 Officers are not permitted to give inmate phone 3 calls, but a Unit Task Team member, or the 4 Chaplin can take the inmate to the Lieutenant's 5 Office and make a call. is not briefed 6 on phone calls in the SHU generally." But in 7 this case, you said that you did advise 8 that he could. And where did the call take 9 place? 10 MR. : Well, because I know between 11 that time, we had installed a jack. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : In SHU, in order to do the 14 outgoing calls. So, they could actually do 15 those calls in SHU. Though, before the 16 Chaplin, of course. So, if you had a SHU 17 inmate, he didn't have to bring the inmate all 18 the way down to the Lieutenant's Office to do a 19 call. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : So, there was a jack up there 22 in the - I can't remember where it is. III 23 sorry. 24 MR. : It's near the shower 25 room? EFTA00126605

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 245 1 MR. : Yeah. Something like that. 2 But so, we actually had the ability to have 3 that outgoing call capability for those inmates 4 in SHU. Because you can't bring them down to 5 the Lieutenant's Office. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : So, you could do an outgoing 8 call capability in the SHU. 9 MR. : Okay. And so, you did 10 approve that call, and then, just log it? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And take care of 13 all that? 14 MR. : Yes, I did. And that was 15 something that Mr. said, and Mr. 16 was, actually, I believe he was the 17 IDO. 18 MR. : And again, what is the 19 IDO? 20 MR. : The Institutional Duty 21 Officer. 22 MR. : And what does that mean? 23 MR. : That means is that every 24 week, for a seven-day period, normally, people 25 with a grades of just 12 and above, 12, 13s, EFTA00126606

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 246 1 would be the Institutional - or 14s - would be 2 the Institutional Duty Officer. Right? So, 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that means they go around, and they check all of the institutional - that they're taking calls after hours, from Correctional Services. They're reporting certain stuff to the Region. They're doing rounds in SHU. They're doing rounds throughout the institution, in all the areas of the institution, and the accumulated report, which is given to the Warden for their review, about the daily operations of the institution during that week. Also, a part of that is SHU rounds. You know, they make sure that SHU rounds, everybody that's supposed to do rounds within a week, you have to do them, or you get notified, and then you notify that Thursday or Friday, and you're supposed to go do your rounds. By the close out. You only have to do it there once a week. So, that's just part of the duties. But they bring the report, they create a report of operations. Any incidents that counts in SHU, if they was bad. the total occurred. The Anything that was going on in Food Service, or if they observed certain instances during the - in EFTA00126607

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 247 1 general population that should be addressed by 2 the Unit Team or Correctional Services, and 3 stuff like that. And so, that's what they do. 4 MR. : Okay. And then, this 5 concludes, " wholeheartedly emphasized 6 that he and his staff at MCC did their best to 7 supervise, safeguard, and ensure the protection 8 of Epstein and all inmates effectively. His 9 staff is aware of the seriousness of the 10 investigation into Epstein's death." 11 MR. : Right. 12 MR. : Now, as far as what I 13 just read you, I know it was over the course of 14 two hours, but - I mean, four hours - but is 15 there anything else you told the FBI or the OIG 16 that wasn't included in this report? 17 MR. : Yeah. 18 MR. : And what was that 19 regarding? 20 MR. : I talked about that, when I, 21 it was brief in there, but I talked about 22 Lieutenant actions. Talked about 23 that, one) she didn't do physical rounds in the 24 unit because, as I said, I went into TRUSCOPE, 25 because I wanted to know, because I did all EFTA00126608

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 248 1 this within the time that I got to the 2 institution, I pulled up TRUSCOPE, and I can 3 actually go in, and I get to see where they're 4 logging in and doing rounds because once I pull 5 up those reports, because the two I verify off 6 of, I pull those reports up, I can show where 7 the computer terminals are. And all of her 8 rounds was done from the Lieutenant's Office. 9 MR. : Okay. I thought - so -- 10 MR. : Because you -. 11 MR. - aside from 12 the bad count, where she should have went - she 13 should have, even with the bad count, she 14 should have been there, observing an actual 15 count? 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : In the SHU? 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : And what count? 20 MR. : No. No, no, no. What she 21 should have done is then done rounds. 22 MR. : Oh. 23 MR. : In the SHU that night. So, 24 between 10:00 and 6:00, she should have done a 25 round in SHU. Well, any time after 12:00 III. EFTA00126609

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 249 1 to 6:00, she should have done a round in SHU. 2 There was no rounds. All of the rounds were 3 done from the Lieutenant's Office. 4 MR. : Well, if she did - I 5 think we do believe that she did conduct a 6 round at 4:00 III. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : So, she actually 9 physically went into the SHU at 4:00 III. -- 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : -- and spoke with them. 12 And then, potentially even came back, and 13 checked in a little while later. 14 UNKNOWN MALE: Dude, it's been a while. I 15 got a little busy. 16 MR. : Thank you, sir. And so, 17 if she did that one time, at the 4:00 18 possibly another check-in ten or 15 minutes 19 later, would that be sufficed for whatever her 20 duty and responsibility was? 21 MR. : Well, that means, if you sat 22 there and you did all your rounds, so, I did 23 all of my rounds at the computer office. 24 MR. : And never went -- 25 MR. : In the computer EFTA00126610

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 (Indiscernible *01:32:56). 2 MR. : -- and she never - she 3 was supposed to go to the Control Center, and 4 actually do the counts from there, right? 5 MR. : Well, you're supposed to take 6 - yeah - one of the counts. So, normally, we 7 would take the 3:45 count or the 5:00. Either 8 one. You could take one of the counts. It 9 don't matter which one you take. You've just 10 got to take one. The 12:00, the 3:00, or the 11 5:00. Right? You've got to take a count. 12 You've got to go through, go do a round in SHU. 13 A round in SHU. So, you have to go, actually, 14 go physically to the unit. And then, you're 15 supposed to do rounds throughout the entire 16 institution. So, if III at the Lieutenant's 17 desk, and I say that all my rounds was done 18 from this one terminal, because you're actually 19 supposed to go in, I provide it in card 20 readers. 21 MR. : So, they're supposed to - 22 when they do a round there - so, they're 23 supposed to log it in from the unit? 24 MR. : From that terminal. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00126611

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 251 1 MR. : So, that means they can go on 2 a floor, and they don't have to go log into 3 both computers on the floor, as long as you log 4 into one on the floor, you're good. That's the 5 policy. 6 MR. : And is that just to show 7 that they are physically there, and they're not 8 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. -: -- falsifying the rounds? 11 MR. : There is. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : So, you just can't just sit 14 at the desk, and say, I did all the rounds. 15 MR. _: III going to investigate the 16 (Indiscernible *01:34:05) of what the 17 Lieutenant rounds entails. 18 MR. : You can ask again, if you 19 want. Go ahead. (Indiscernible *01:34:09). 20 MR. : I don't remember if you did. 21 I apologize if you answered it already. When a 22 Lieutenant has to do a round in a - let's say 23 any tier - and let's say the SHU, what does 24 that entail? What (Indiscernible *01:34:19)? 25 MR. : They're supposed to go door EFTA00126612

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 252 1 by door, just like I explained to you before. 2 You're supposed to go in the unit, go on the 3 tier, and you're supposed to walk and look at 4 every cell. 5 MR. : And what'd he saying, he 6 just - to clarify - he wants to make sure it's 7 the Lieutenants that are also supposed to do 8 that. 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : Not just the staff. And 11 is that - and again, for clarification, I 12 apologize, but it's so much, we've got to 13 dissect, you know, we're going to have to 14 digest what you told us, and listen to it again 15 - but is it every shift, a Lieutenant should do 16 that? 17 MR. : Yes. Every shift, in the 24- 18 hour period, rounds have to be conducted by a 19 Lieutenant. In SHU. 20 MR. : And so, if Lieutenants 21 are telling us that they don't think that 22 that's part of their duties, they're supposed 23 to do just rounds -- 24 MR. : They're wrong. 25 MR. : -- of staff, and is that EFTA00126613

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2r- 1 policy that says 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : -- that they need to do 4 that? 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : So, and if they're 7 telling us that, are they lying to us, or are 8 they just -? 9 MR. : I think just think they're 10 unaware or confused. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : I really do. If it says that 13 a Lieutenant will perform a round in the 14 Special Housing Unit, once on their shift. 15 MR. : And then, and that means 16 an actual, not a round to check in with the 17 staff, but a round -- 18 MR. : No. That's a -- 19 MR. : -- to actually looking at 20 the -? 21 MR. : -- round to walk around the 22 unit. 23 MR. : So, in this matter, when 24 you're looking at these 4:00, 10:00 III., 12:00 25 III., 3:00, and 5:00, which - on our duty EFTA00126614

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 roster, on both August 9th and August 10th - 2 which Lieutenant should have conducted rounds? 3 MR. : Okay. So, on -- 4 MR. : With the inmates. 5 MR. : -- on August 9th, 6 should have done a round in SHU. 7 MR. : But what, approximately 8 what time? 9 MR. : It's going to be from 1000 10 hours, only 2200 hours, to 06. 11 MR. : So, the day before 12 MR. : Right. 13 MR. -- for August 8th -- 14 MR. : So, that means -- 15 MR. : -- 2200. 16 MR. : -- she would have done 17 anything after 12:00. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. -: or would have 20 done them. So, I don't know who would have 21 done them on that day, and especially since we 22 didn't have a SHU Lieutenant, they should have 23 done a round in SHU. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Because just like we had the EFTA00126615

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 255 1 PC unit, that was on the third floor 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : -- you was responsible for 4 doing a round in the PC unit. 5 MR. : And are you aware if 6 or , they were there? Do you know 7 if either of them are aware that they needed to 8 do rounds of inmates in the SHU? 9 MR. : Yeah, they knew. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : Either one of them would have 12 done it. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : So, I would say, normally, 15 when I was the Operations Lieutenant, I would 16 have sent the Activity, hey, go to SHU, go 17 knock out the round. 18 MR. : So, , probably, 19 would have been the one there? 20 MR. : And then, for , I 21 would have sent up there. 22 MR. : All right. So, 23 or should have done a round. Okay. And 24 it doesn't have to be - so, when you're saying 25 a round, are you talking about the counts or EFTA00126616

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 256 1 the rounds? It could have been any round, 2 because rounds are 30, it would be 30-minutes 3 or so -- 4 MR. : Right. 5 MR. : -- are you talking about 6 one of the main counts? 7 MR. : So, just like a Correctional 8 Supervisor, a Lieutenant, is supposed to make a 9 round in SHU. 10 MR. : I know, but what - I just 11 want to make sure we're clarifying the 12 difference between the 30-minute round and the 13 - because you said they should have conducted 14 one of the 4:00, 10:00, 12:00 -- 15 MR. : That's a count. 16 MR. : -- that's a count? So, 17 are they supposed to conduct a count, or just 18 one of the regular 30-minute rounds? 19 MR. : No. On every shift, within a 20 24-hour period, a Lieutenant is supposed to 21 make a round in SHU. 22 MR. : A round. So, not -- 23 MR. : A Lieutenant. That's why I 24 would say a Lieutenant. 25 MR. : Yup. EFTA00126617

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 257 1 MR. : It specifies to a - because I 2 can't say the Operations, the Activities, the 3 Admin. No. A Lieutenant. So, that's why we 4 get by on day watch because you have the 5 assigned Lieutenant in the unit, that's going 6 to make the said round. 7 MR. : Okay. And so, when 8 MR. : Or day watch. 9 MR. : -- so, when went 10 to - at 4:00 - to the SHU, she should have 11 conducted a round of the inmate -- 12 MR. : Of the entire Unit. 13 MR. : -- not just checked in 14 with the staff? 15 MR. : No. She should have made a 16 round. 17 MR. : Okay. And then, that's 18 what I wanted to clarify a round versus count. 19 Because that could have happened any time in 20 between - you know, for these people - any time 21 in between any of the counts, at any time they 22 could have showed up and said, let's do a 23 round. 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Real quick. Okay. EFTA00126618

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 258 1 MR. : And when she made that round, 2 she just sees the person, she doesn't have to 3 talk to them? 4 MR. : You walk around, and if it's 5 at night, you're going to take and shine your 6 light in there, because you're not doing a 7 count. So, as Correctional Officers, you know, 8 over the years, you're taught to look at 9 certain things in a cell. When I shine that 10 light in there, III shining, I make sure, 11 because normally inmates will move their foot 12 or move their leg, or arm, or leg, so I would 13 count flesh when I see flesh. I could check 14 the windows real quick, or if they got stuff in 15 hanging, that's restricting my view, I could 16 correct it at that time, hey, take that down, 17 hey you, so and so, get up, take the covering 18 down. That's doing an effective round. And 19 you do that for every cell in the block. 20 MR. : What about when the SHU 21 Lieutenant is on duty, is he the one 22 that's doing the rounds? 23 MR. : Yeah. No. No, no. Officers 24 are doing the rounds. So, when he does his 25 rounds, it's normally with a status report. EFTA00126619

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 259 1 You understand? 2 MR. : So, not only -- 3 MR. : So, he'll do -- 4 MR. : -- is he doing it, but 5 also one of the Activities or Ops Lieutenant is 6 also doing one? 7 MR. : No. If is in there, 8 he's the one to do that round. 9 MR. : And then -. 10 MR. : He's going to do the round, 11 because he's in the Unit all day. 12 MR. : Right. And he's actually 13 physically in the Unit, when he's there? 14 MR. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's his 15 place of duty. 16 MR. : All right. So then, the, 17 you know, the Ops or the Activities 18 Lieutenants, they don't need to then go to the 19 SHU -- 20 MR. : No. 21 MR. : -- and do rounds on that 22 day? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : It's only when he's not 25 there? EFTA00126620

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 260 1 MR. : Correct. 2 MR. : Okay. And then, 3 obviously, he's only there in the day, right? 4 He's not there at night? 5 MR. : Right. 6 MR. : So, whoever the Ops 7 Lieutenant is at night, always needs to go do 8 it. 9 MR. : Got to do go a round. 10 Yeah. 11 MR. : And that's what you meant 12 when you said didn't conduct a 13 round, you're talking about, she didn't 14 actually do the inmate round? 15 MR. : Right, because then, she 16 probably would have probably seen the inmate in 17 distress, or -- 18 MR. : Right. 19 MR. something like that. 20 MR. : And do you know anything 21 about when Epstein actually died versus when he 22 was found? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : I heard it was hours before. EFTA00126621

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 261 1 MR. : Okay. Where the SHU 2 staff are located in the map that you just drew 3 4 MR. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : -- could they see into 6 Epstein's cell from there? 7 MR. : No. But you could see, like, 8 if the lights was on, you know, so, if III 9 standing down by the Officer's Station, I could 10 look up on the tier, and I could look down, and 11 if the lights are on, I could definitely see if 12 the light was on in the cell or not. 13 MR. : About how big are the 14 windows of the doors? 15 MR. : I would say they are probably 16 like this. 17 MR. : About that? Okay. So -- 18 MR. : But -- 19 MR. : -- about, like 20 MR. and then -. 21 MR. : -- 24 inches by, like, 22 ten inches? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : Or something. 25 MR. : Something like that. EFTA00126622

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 262 1 MR. : Okay. And they're always 2 open? 3 MR. : Yes. 4 MR. : There's nothing that 5 covers them, or -? 6 MR. : We do have the ability to 7 close, like, when we have an incident on the 8 tier, we have an unresponsive inmate, or 9 MR. : Yup. 10 MR. -- we were giving medical, 11 you know, if we're doing anything that deals 12 with the inmate specifically, we'll block those 13 other observation windows off, so the inmates 14 can't see. 15 MR. : Now, when the staff are 16 doing an overnight, the early morning watch, 17 from zero, from 12:00 III. and through 8:00 18 are they allowed to sleep? 19 MR. : No. You can't sleep. 20 MR. : So, if the SHU, if 21 they're in the SHU, can one sleep while the 22 other stays awake? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : So, no one is allowed to 25 sleep? EFTA00126623

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 263 1 MR. : No. 2 MR. : Have you heard that they 3 were sleeping on this shift? 4 MR. : I heard that, and what camera 5 footage I saw, I could physically observe them 6 sleeping. 7 MR. : So, did you see them both 8 sleeping? 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. : So, you did actually 11 review the video? 12 MR. : I saw - I did see that video. 13 MR. : Okay. You did. And you 14 saw both of them asleep? Do you know about how 15 long they were sleeping? 16 MR. : I can't remember that. 17 MR. : Sure. And is that a big 18 problem? 19 MR. : That is a very big problem. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : I mean, my thing is, is that 22 I understand that, you know, you worked 23 overtime, or you was mandated to work another 24 time. When I was a Correctional Officer, guess 25 what? I'll go get on the tier, I'll go do EFTA00126624

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 264 1 rounds. I would just stay walking in the unit. 2 You know? It's nothing wrong to get on the 3 internet. But between that time you're on the 4 internet, you need to shut it off, and go do 5 rounds. If that's the way you stay awake at 6 night, or do your OIC duties. Audit the - what 7 they're told to do - audit the bed book. Audit 8 the - make sure all the 292s is done for the 9 previous shift. You know, do all the stuff 10 that's mandated on your watch as you're 11 supposed to do, then do those functions. That 12 will keep you awake. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : If you're doing the work. 15 MR. : Were they allowed -- 16 MR. : Do you -- 17 MR. : -- yeah. 18 MR. : -- do you know if either 19 of these individuals, in this instance - 20 or - were on mandatory overtime? 21 MR. _: was. I believe she was 22 going from evening watch to morning watch, and 23 I believe that came into work that as 24 overtime. 25 MR. : Now, was mandatory EFTA00126625

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 265 1 overtime, though? She didn't -- 2 MR. : Yeah. She was a mandated. I 3 think she was mandated because if you see here, 4 she was - her shift was 4:00 to 12:00. Right? 5 And then, if you see here, as TO - 6 overtime. So, if you go here, it's going to 7 show, go to SHU One. Yeah. So, basically, if 8 she - yeah, it says, yeah - if she was SHU One, 9 had hired her on 05/19. So, it doesn't 10 show if she was mandatory, or whatever. 11 MR. : So, it could have 12 voluntary? 13 MR. : It could have been voluntary. 14 MR. : Okay. Okay. Great. And 15 the last thing I want to ask you about, and 16 then I'll turn it over to . Here's an e- 17 mail that was sent out on 07/30/2019, from a 18 . Do you know who that is? I-I-E- 19 R-I. 20 MR. -: . That sounds -- 21 MR. : I think it's 22 MR. -- I think Ms. - hold 23 on - she works in Psychology. 24 MR. : Yeah. And it says, 25 "Inmate Epstein, number 76318-054, is being EFTA00126626

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 266 1 taken off psych observation, and needs to be 2 housed with an appropriate cell mate. Do you 3 recall getting that at all? 4 MR. : So, "At 07/30, inmate Epstein 5 is going to be taken off of psychological, and 6 needs to be housed with an appropriate inmate." 7 I probably did. Yeah. 8 MR. : Now, can you flip over 9 you're going to see all, like, the Lieutenants 10 and everybody in there. If your Lieutenants 11 received this -- 12 MR. : It would have said "Read." 13 MR. : -- so, do they have to 14 click on a - do they have, like, for me, I can 15 say, like, do I want to send a response or not? 16 MR. : No, they have to click on it. 17 MR. : Right. So, if they don't 18 click on it, they could still have read it? 19 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : And it wouldn't say "Read 21 response"? 22 MR. Mm-hmm. You would have to 23 click on it to read it. 24 MR. : Do you know what III 25 saying? So, like, if I open an e-mail, it gives EFTA00126627

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 267 1 me the -- 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : -- it gives me an option 4 - in my e-mail at least - do you want to send a 5 read response? 6 MR. : No, it's different -- 7 MR. : Or not. 8 MR. like, on mine, how I got 9 mine set up, I could see the e-mail message. 10 You know you can do that, right? Like, on my 11 mine, like, when my emails come up -- 12 MR. : Yeah, yeah. 13 MR. : I can read what it is 14 without actually clicking on it. 15 MR. : So, there's a ton of 16 people on there that it doesn't say "Read." 17 MR. : Right. 18 MR. : Do you think that they 19 actually didn't see this e-mail, or didn't 20 actually read it? 21 MR. : I mean, I believe it. 22 MR. : So, are a lot of BOP 23 employees, then, not reading their emails? 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. : So, if it doesn't "Read" EFTA00126628

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 268 1 on there, you believe that some of these 2 Lieutenants actually may not have seen that e- 3 mail? 4 MR. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Okay. That's fair 6 enough. 7 MR. : And that's fair. Because I 8 know, if you look at mine, like, I can actually 9 monitor emails, so you don't know if I read, if 10 I seen it. 11 MR. : Well, that's kind of my 12 point. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : Is that, like -- 15 MR. : Yeah. I have. Yeah. 16 MR. : -- you can read it 17 without actually it showing that it was read. 18 MR. : Yes. I can do it. 19 MR. : So, that's what III 20 saying. So, in this case -- 21 MR. : Yeah. 22 MR. : -- do you think that, 23 just because it says -- 24 MR. : Yeah, because, like, 25 read it. read it. read it. SHU EFTA00126629

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 269 1 staff. The AW read it. III just looking at 2 all of the Lieutenants. Lieutenant read 3 it. The Warden read it. (Indiscernible 4 *01:47:41) read it. So, yeah, there was a few 5 Lieutenants that actually read it. 6 MR. : Okay. But just because 7 it says that they didn't read it, doesn't mean 8 they necessarily - like you - they could have 9 had something -- 10 MR. : Right. 11 MR. : -- set up where it 12 doesn't even show that they read it. 13 MR. : Right. 14 MR. : All right. Before I turn 15 it over, can you just - just so we know what 16 documents - can you just initial and date the 17 top of each of these sets of documents that I 18 gave you? 19 MR. : Yeah. Right here? 20 MR. : Yeah. Just all on top. 21 Yup. Just your initial and date. Today's date 22 is -- 23 MR. : What is today? 24 MR. : 06/15. 25 MR. : -- 06/15/21. EFTA00126630

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 270 1 MR. : Oh. 2 MR. : 06/15/21. 3 MR. : 06/15? 4 MR. : Yeah. 06/15/21. 5 MR. : 06/15/21. Sorry about that. 6 MR. : And just for all the 7 counts and stuff, too. It was the sheet -- 8 MR. : So, I got to do it 9 MR. : No, no. Just -- 10 MR. : -- no, no, no, no -- 11 MR. -- for all of these? 12 MR. : -- just the top of each, 13 like, so, there's the staple. Just on each one 14 that's stapled. 15 MR. All right. 06/15/21? 16 MR. : Yeah. This is just the 17 way we keep records of what we actually talked 18 about. 19 MR. sorry. You know, 20 taking all day. 21 MR. : No. We really - it's 22 super helpful. There's a lot of stuff that you 23 told us that we didn't know about, so. 24 MR. : I was surprised you didn't 25 know about him being in the wrong cell. EFTA00126631

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 271 1 MR. : Yeah. No. That's - did 2 you know anything about that? 3 MR. : No. 4 MR. : But again, that's an 5 administrative error, as opposed to any kind of 6 suspicion related to his death. Correct? 7 MR. : Right. 8 MR. : And then, just the duty 9 Agent rosters, or the schedules. Thank you, 10 sir. 11 MR. : You're welcome. 12 MR. : All right. 13 MR. : Just a couple of follow up 14 questions. 15 MR. : Sure. 16 MR. : Was Epstein given special 17 privileges, anything like that? 18 MR. : No. I don't believe so. No. 19 MR. : You mentioned that he was 20 meeting with his Attorneys seven days a week? 21 MR. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : And was that allowed for any 23 other the inmates? 24 MR. : I mean, all the inmates are 25 afforded that because while they're pre-trial EFTA00126632

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 inmates, they have that right, to seek the 2 legal counsel. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : So, it's up to the legal 5 counsel when they want to go see them. If they 6 don't want to go see them every 90 days, 7 that's, you know, but his legal counsel came 8 quite often. 9 MR. : Okay. The phone call. The 10 instruction you gave You told him 11 that had made the phone call, record it. Now, 12 if Epstein mentioned that he wants to make the 13 phone call to a certain person, and if 14 dialed that number, is he supposed to identify 15 that that's the person who answered the phone? 16 MR. : Yeah. Like I told you 17 before, that's part of the process. So, 18 that's, like, if I call you, and you say, well, 19 III so and so, and III his Attorney. Okay. 20 Fine. 21 MR. : Now, if that person wasn't 22 the person who answered the phone, what was 23 supposed to do? 24 MR. : Then he was supposed to not 25 give and allow him to - like, if he was trying EFTA00126633

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 273 1 to call a male and a female answered the phone, 2 if that meant, is so and so available? No. 3 Then he wouldn't have gotten - been able to 4 speak to the female person that answered the 5 phone. No. 6 MR. : According to the records, I 7 think Epstein mentioned he wanted to speak to 8 his mother. 9 MR. : Okay. I don't know. 10 MR. : Is there, like, a list that 11 they need to go by, or just Epstein would 12 provide the number, and that was it? 13 MR. : Basically, inmates are 14 supposed to supply certain people their 15 supposed to call. So, like, on their phone 16 list, there's certain people that we vet, that 17 the inmates can call. So, normally, it's, 18 like, over in - a religious person, your 19 immediate family members, a girlfriend, a wife, 20 a spouse, children, stuff like that, past or 21 whatever. But then, legally, if your legal 22 contact or your Attorney, it's different. You 23 know, you can - that's a totally different type 24 of call. Outside of what the inmates get. 25 Like, if they pick up the commissary phone, and EFTA00126634

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 274 1 try to call, it's only going to allow them to 2 call those numbers off of the phone list. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : You know what III saying? The 5 proof form is the green form. But over here, 6 they say, well, I need to speak to my Attorney. 7 Okay, I'll give you the Attorney call. But if 8 that was the case, he could have been afforded 9 or given, if he was calling his mother, if he 10 had time on the books, because he went back to 11 his cell prior to - I think the cell, the SHU, 12 the cell, the phones in SHU cut off at 9:00 13 III. III not certain. I can't remember. He 14 could have called his mother at that time. And 15 we wouldn't have had to facilitate the call. 16 He could have called her right from the thing. 17 MR. : So, I just want to - should 18 have checked that list before he made 19 that phone call? 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Okay. And the last question 22 is, if the order came from Psych, right? - It 23 was just a question - if the order came from 24 Psych, that Epstein needed a cell mate, should 25 they have come down to the Unit and made sure EFTA00126635

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 275 1 that everyone else knew about it, that 2 requirement? 3 MR. : No. Well, what do you mean? 4 MR. : Let's say, at Psych, that 5 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. -- e-mail came out saying 8 that, Epstein required a cell mate. 9 MR. : Okay. So, what would have 10 happened is, if he would have been released - 11 because she would put that out. So, if the 12 inmate was being released from suicide watch, 13 prior for him being released from suicide 14 watch, that would have went to the exec staff, 15 that would have went to the SHU OIC, the 16 Operations Lieutenant, to inform him that he 17 needs - before place him in SHU - he needs to 18 have an appropriate cell mate. Not a vetted 19 one. Just someone because of what the SHU 20 policy says, that an inmate must have a cell 21 mate. 22 MR. : Okay, but it's on -- 23 MR. : But it doesn't say a vetted 24 cell mate. It doesn't say all these protocols. 25 But with her, that's a general statement that EFTA00126636

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 276 1 would be made for any suicide watch inmate 2 coming off of suicide watch. 3 MR. : Oh so, she sent that e-mail? 4 MR. : That's it, if you pull up any 5 other e-mail dealing with an e-mail coming from 6 suicide watch, back to SHU, that would be for 7 any inmate. But however, with him, you 8 couldn't necessarily do that because he would 9 have to have a vetted cell mate. He would have 10 to have somebody appropriate for him. Not just 11 any cell that was open. That, you know, if it 12 was a -- 13 MR. : I see. 14 MR. : -- single occupancy, then you 15 could put him in there. But no, he had to be 16 vetted before he could go in with anybody. 17 MR. : That's all I had. 18 MR. : Is there anything we're 19 missing? Anything we didn't cover? 20 MR. : That's it. 21 MR. : Let me see this form 22 right here. Yeah, we covered that. All right. 23 So, yeah. If there's nothing else on your end, 24 then just we'll wrap it up. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00126637

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2-- 1 MR. : And there's - again - 2 there's nothing that you discussed with the 3 FBI, or the OIG, previous, that we didn't 4 cover? On this. 5 MR. : No. That's pretty much 6 everything. 7 MR. : That's it. Perfect. It 8 sounds like you were with . Was 9 there anything else that she didn't do, that 10 she should have? Aside from that round. 11 MR. : I mean, with 12 I believe that it was the issue with the log. 13 I think it was a log issue that we had talked 14 about, that when I pulled up the initial log, 15 after I got there, when I pulled up the 16 Lieutenant's log, it appeared that it was two 17 different logs in the system. And then, within 18 45 minutes, one log had disappeared out of the 19 system, and then, I see her leaving at about 20 9:15 III., out of the building. I don't know 21 where she was in the building, but at 9:15 22 III., she comes walking out of the building. 23 And I reported that to OIG when I talked to 24 them. I talked to them about that log being -- 25 MR. : And what was the log? EFTA00126638

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 278 1 MR. : -- the daily log. 2 MR. : The daily log. 3 MR. : The Lieutenant's log. So, 4 there was two different logs, and then, one of 5 the logs wasn't right. And then, when I went 6 back, it had been deleted. And then, I see her 7 leaving out the building at 9:15 III. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : On that Saturday morning. 10 MR. : And when should have she 11 left? 12 MR. : She should have left at 6:00. 13 Why was she in the building for another three 14 plus hours? And I brought that up to the 15 investigators, to the OIG. 16 MR. : Can I see that timeline? 17 MR. : Do you have any reason to 18 believe - obviously, there looks like there was 19 some people that dropped the ball here, there's 20 some, like we talked about, job performance 21 failure, security failure - do you have any 22 reason to believe that there's anybody that 23 harmed Epstein? 24 MR. : No. 25 MR. : So, do you believe that - EFTA00126639

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 279 1 2 MR. : No. 3 MR. : -- he took his own life? 4 MR. : I believe he took his own 5 life. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : I don't believe any of the 8 staff did any harm to him. No, I don't. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : I don't. Nah. 11 MR. : And then, as far as 12 going back to and this log book 13 - when you saw that there was two - it looks 14 like - duplicates, did you see what the 15 discrepancies were, when you noticed that there 16 were two of them for that daily log? 17 MR. : Right. Because III going 18 tell you how I found out. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : So, when I went in TRUSCOPE, 21 I told you I was looking for the rounds. 22 MR. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : Because III bouncing the log 24 off of what the rounds was. 25 MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00126640

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 280 1 MR. : Because all this stuff is 2 going into evidence. So, III hurrying, III 3 trying to gather this stuff. So, the log, III 4 trying to compare it to the rounds, it's not 5 jiving. So, III reading the log, and the log 6 is totally - it's not jiving. The whole thing 7 is - the times, the frames - it's not jiving. 8 So then, all of the sudden, when III printing 9 out the paperwork from TRUSCOPE, I go back and 10 I look at the log, boom, another log pops up. 11 So, III reading this one, and then, the other 12 log that was there before is deleted. 13 MR. : And she has the ability 14 to do that? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : Would the system reflect that 17 she made changes? 18 MR. : No. It's not like -- 19 MR. : Or made changes. 20 MR. -- it's not like the roster. 21 The roster is not going to tell you. You know, 22 the roster will tell you who goes in there and 23 manipulates the roster. But not that. 24 MR. : (Indiscernible 25 *01:58:10). EFTA00126641

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 281 1 MR. : But like I said, then, when 2 III in passing, because III in the Lieutenant's 3 Office, and I see across, I look out, because, 4 you know, the Alpha door, that door that leads 5 out, she's walking, they let her out through 6 Control Center, at 9:15. like, where she 7 been all this time? 8 MR. : And did you ever talk to 9 her? 10 MR. : I needed to talk to her. 11 MR. : Did you ever question her 12 about that? 13 MR. : No. 14 MR. : No? 15 MR. : I let OIG deal with it. 16 Because once the file came up missing, she 17 didn't report doing rounds. The log was 18 duplicated. I said, something is going on 19 here. I let Mr. know that. I told the 20 Warden. I told OIG. That was part of my - I 21 don't know why it's not in there - I talked 22 about that log. 23 MR. : And was that -- 24 MR. : I talked about her leaving 25 the institution at 9:15. EFTA00126642

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 282 1 MR. : -- and is that with the 2 FBI present? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : Okay. Yeah. 5 MR. : And at 9:15, she left between 6 the hours - approximately - 9:10 and 9:15 III. 7 on 08/10. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Just, we have a note in here 10 that the SHU count was corrected by the 11 Lieutenant log, completed by Lieutenant 12 . At the midnight time, the midnight 13 count, where she corrected it from 73 to 72. 14 Do you recall reading that? 15 MR. : Like I said, it was all kind 16 of discrepancies, all kinds of discrepancies on 17 that log. So, III just trying to gather 18 everything, so I could bring it before the 19 Warden, to let him know what's going on. 20 Before we put it in the 583. 21 MR. : That's what we talked 22 about. 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : We already talked about 25 that, though. EFTA00126643

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Do you understand what 2 saying? 3 MR. : Like, what he's talking 4 about is, after these, and I actually cut that 5 out. So, they're there. 6 2(cY. MR. : So, no, but - he's mentioning 7 - from my understanding is - you're saying that 8 the log afterwards, or throughout the night? 9 That all night, you got -- 10 MR. : When I got -- 11 MR. : -- you were (Indiscernible 12 *02:00:02). 13 MR. -- when I was reviewing the 14 log from the night, from 08/09 into 08/10. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : That morning watch log for 17 08/10? Because it starts off with this one, and 18 then it follows, like this. It was totally 19 bad. It was messed up. It showed - it was a 20 bad log. And then, by the time I was being 21 able to print that log, that log had changed. 22 MR. : All right. 23 MR. : And then, another one was 24 there. That's why I reported it. I don't know 25 why it's not - I reported that to OIG. EFTA00126644

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 284 1 MR. : Okay. So, it was a log - 2 overnight log - that got changed? 3 MR. : Yes. 4 MR. : All right. 5 MR. : All right. We'll have to 6 follow up with that. But all right. Anything 7 else? 8 MR. : No. That's it, man. 9 MR. : Thank you. That was 10 very, very helpful. Thank you so much for your 11 time. It is currently 2:07 III., on Tuesday, 12 June 15, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent 13 with the DOJ OIG, and I am 14 turning off the recorder. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00126645

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 285 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00126646