320 LBUVMAX4 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he would start to masturbate, and he would ask me to straddle his face. He would ask me to, like, squeeze his nipples really hard while he came. Q. Did all of the things that you just described happen on trips to New York when you were 14, 15, and 16? A. Yes. Q. You testified that you were mostly alone with him when these incidents occurred in the New York house when you were 14, 15, and 16. Just to be clear, were there times when Maxwell was present during those years? A. Yes. Q. Where would these incidents in New York typically happen within the house? A. In the massage room. Q. Can you please describe for the jury what the massage room in the New York house looked like. A. Well, it was off the master bathroom, and it looked like it was maybe supposed to be a giant walk-in closet. And it was very dark. There was a built-in bookcase on the right-hand side, and there was a stereo system. And there was, like, music playing. And I don't know if it was painted dark, but or maybe that was the lighting, but it sort of had this, like, red mood. And then there was just a giant black massage table in the middle of it. Q. Was there anything along the walls in the massage room? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068782

321 LBUVMAX4 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. My eyes didn't even look at the walls, mostly the floor, if not what was going on. Q. Was there any other furniture inside the massage room aside from the massage table? A. I don't know. Q. Earlier you testified that you recall traveling to New Mexico; is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Approximately when did you travel to New Mexico? A. The year? Q. Approximately how old were you when you traveled to New Mexico? A. Oh, 15 or 16. Q. Who went with you on that trip? A. Jeffrey and Ghislaine. Q. Where did you spend most of your time on the trip to New Mexico with Maxwell and Epstein? A. At Epstein's house, which was a ranch. Q. What do you remember about the ranch that you visited on that trip? A. I just remember that it was this giant ranch sort of in the middle of nowhere. And it seemed very empty on the interior, meaning there wasn't really any other people around. Q. When you were at the ranch in New Mexico, where did you spend most of your time? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068783

322 LBUVMAX4 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. In the guest bedroom that was assigned to me. Q. Were you by yourself in the bedroom? A. Yes. Q. And did you spend most of your time alone in that bedroom when you were in New Mexico? A. Yes. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068784

323 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. On that trip in New Mexico, was there ever a time when someone came into your room? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe to the jury what you remember about that? A. I just remember someone, at one point, just came into the room and said Jeffrey wants to see you and then escorted me to see him. Q. When that person came into your room and told you that he wanted to see you, how did you feel? A. I just, as usual, felt, like, my heart sink into my stomach, you know. Q. And why was your heart sinking into your stomach? A. Because I did not want to go see him. Q. What's the next thing you remember about that? A. I just remember being led to his bedroom and, you know, the same thing would happen. Q. Who was the person who came into your room to tell you that Epstein wanted to see you? A. I don't know. Q. During that trip to New Mexico, was your bedroom in the same building as Epstein and Maxwell's bedrooms? A. Yes. Q. When you traveled with Epstein and Maxwell, was there ever a time when you had trouble getting on a flight? A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068785

LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Can you describe to the jury what happened. A. Well, I had traveled with them and I had to fly back to Palm Beach to go to school on a Monday, and I traveled with them on a private jet. Then, to get back, I was taking a commercial flight, but I was only 15, so I didn't have a driver's license or any ID, I didn't have a learner's permit yet. So I had no ID to get on the airplane. Q. What happened next after you couldn't get on the airplane? A. I remember calling and freaking out, saying how am I going to get on this plane. And Ghislaine made it happen for me. She sort of called somebody and helped me get on that flight. Q. Approximately how old were you when that happened? A. I was 15. Q. Earlier, you testified that Maxwell assisted with your travel arrangements on these trips when you were 14, 15, and 16. Could you explain to the jury how Maxwell assisted with your travel during these trips? A. Well, sometimes it would be -- Jeffrey would ask her, hey, can you get -- not you know, tickets and the times and whatnot and make the arrangements to be picked up. Q. You testified that this began when you were 14. Can you explain to the jury how old you were when you moved away from Palm Beach? A. 17. Q. Can you describe for the jury what you looked like when you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068786

325 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 were ages 14, 15, 16, and 17. A. What I looked like? Q. Can you describe what your physical appearance was like. A. Oh, I was -- I was kind of short. I was very thin. I was flat-chested until I was almost 16. Q. If you could please take a look at the binder in front of you on the witness stand. I'd ask you to just turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 107. Do you recognize that? A. Yes. Q. What is Government Exhibit 107? A. That is a picture of myself at 15 years old when I thought it was a really good idea to bleach my own hair at home, which was not a good idea. MS. MOE: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 107 under seal. THE COURT: Government Exhibit 107 is admitted under seal consistent with my ruling allowing this witness to testify under a pseudonym to protect her privacy. (Government's Exhibit 107 received in evidence) MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Q. if you could please take a look at the binder in front of you and turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 108. Do you recognize that? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068787

326 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. What is Government Exhibit 108? A. That's a picture of me. Q. Approximately, how old were you when that picture was taken? A. 17. MS. MOE: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 108 under seal. MS. MENNINGER: No objection. THE COURT: Thank you. Government Exhibit 108 is admitted under seal consistent with my ruling, allowing this witness to testify using a pseudonym. (Government's Exhibit 108 received in evidence) MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. May the jurors turn to Government Exhibits 107 and 108 in their binders. THE COURT: Yes, please. Pick up your binders and look at GX107 and GX108. MS. MOE: Thank you. Just give the jurors a moment to turn to that. BY MS. MOE: Q. So again, just to be clear, now that we're all looking at Government Exhibit 107, approximately how old were you when that photograph was taken? A. 15. Q. Turning to Government Exhibit 108, approximately how old SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068788

LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 were you when that photograph was taken? A. 17. Q. I want to step back and ask you a little bit about your home life during the years we've been talking about. When you were 14 to 17 and living in Florida, can you describe for the jury what your home life was like during those years? A. Well, it was it was not great. My father had just passed away, sort of suddenly, and we found ourselves losing our home and moving into a pool house and not being allowed to grieve the loss of my father and having a very depressed mom at home. Q. I think you mentioned that you felt like you weren't allowed to grieve your father. Can you explain to the jury what you meant by that? MS. MENNINGER: Objection, your Honor. Relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. A. Well, I grew up with a mother who didn't allow us to talk about our feelings because that was a sign of weakness. So grieving would be a part of that because she was very concerned about appearance and what we would look like and that you always sort of put a pretty face on. So we really didn't discuss those kinds of things at home and weren't allowed to discuss it with anyone else. So, being a kid and losing your dad and not being allowed to talk about it, not having anyone to talk to about it, it was really difficult. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068789

328 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. During the years that we've been talking about, did your mother know that you were spending time with Epstein and Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Would you ever talk with her about that? A. Not in detail, but, you know, my mom was so enamored with the idea that these wealthy affluent people took an interest in me. MS. MENNINGER: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor. We've strayed into hearsay. THE COURT: Just one moment, please. Overruled with respect to the answer that's been given, but is that the end of the question line, Ms. Moe? MS. MOE: Your Honor, this testimony is offered for the effect on the listener. We ask that the witness be able to explain what is going on during this time period and how that affected her. THE COURT: You may ask that question. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. BY MS. MOE: Q. During the time period that we've been talking about when you were 14, 15, and 16, did your mother ever talk to you about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell? A. The most that she would talk to me about was saying that _ need to be -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068790

329 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MENNINGER: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor. Thtt was a different question. THE COURT: I'll sustain. If you reframe the question to elicit the information you indicated as opposed to asking what her mother said, you may proceed. MS. MOE: Your Honor, if I could just have one moment? THE COURT: You may. MS. MOE: Your Honor, could we briefly approach? THE COURT: Why don't we take our midafternoon break, because the jurors' snacks are here and it's time for that. So we'll take an approximately 10-minute break, members of the jury. Thank you. See you in about 10 minutes. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068791

330 LBUCmax5 - direct (Jury not present) (Witness excused) THE COURT: Everyone may be seated. Go ahead, 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Ms. Moe. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor, I'd like to ask the witness about her conversations with her mother during this time period about Epstein and Maxwell. As I think the witness began explaining during this time period, her mother would tell her about how great they were, how enamored she was with them, and that I expect she would say that that had an effect on her. None of that is offered for the truth, but for the effect on the listener. I think the defense has put at issue in this case why the victims continued seeing the defendant and Epstein and why they didn't tell about what happened to them later, and the circumstances under which all of this was happening, including her home life, the effect of her own mother and how her mother would talk about Maxwell and Epstein are all part of that and it's directly responsive to that issue. THE COURT: The initial questions that you're asking, you expect the witness to say what exactly was communicated to the witness by her mother? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. I expect the witness to testify that her mother encouraged the relationship and would often talk about them favorably and tell them she should be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068792

331 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 grateful for everything they were doing for her. THE COURT: And you're not seeking to offer that information for the truth, but for the effect that it had on the witness? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: So you'll accept a limiting instruction? MS. MOE: Of course, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Menninger. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, I think the simple way to ask the question is, how did you feel, and if it was based on something your mother said to you, without getting into the content of what the mother had communicated to her. I think it's a real issue that may come up later with things that the mother has said to any number of people, and I feel like this opens the door to many other conversations that relate to the mother. So I'm not sure that just asking -- giving a bunch of hearsay from the mom, saying we're asking it for the effect on the listener and precluding cross examination about other conversations with the mom would be appropriate. THE COURT: So I don't know what you have in mind coming down the road. I think it's proffered by the government at this point anyway. I think there might be a way to streamline it. Ms. Moe, maybe you could think about that. But as proffered by the government, it's not being SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068793

332 LBUCmax5 - direct offered for the truth, it's being offered for the effect on the listener. I would give the jury a limiting instruction that 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the witness's testimony regarding what her mother said is not being offered for the truth of those statements, but for the impact or effect that it had on the witness. We'll keep it limited, Ms. Moe, as to eliciting statements for an out-of-court witness, but with that caveat. And then tell me, Ms. Menninger, what your concern down the road was so I have it in my head. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, if you're admitting it with that limiting instruction, I think we'll take up the issues with other statements by the mom when they come up. THE COURT: Okay. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Just to preview in order to streamline things because we're on the subject, I expect the next few questions to be about the issue of disclosure. In particular, I expect to ask the witness whether there was ever a time when she talked to a guidance counselor when she was a kid and whether she came to learn that her mother had found out that she talked to the guidance counselor, and I want to talk to her about how her mother reacted to that and told her that she should never talk about what goes on in their house. We're offering that, again, not for the truth of anything, it's certainly not our position that she shouldn't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068794

333 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have told someone that that is a true statement. It's offered to show the environment in which she was living and how that affected her and affected her decision not to disclose what was going on with her. THE COURT: But in particular, you want the witness to testify that her mother told her not to report what happened, not to tell anyone what happened. Did I get that right? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. I expect that she'll testify that she spoke with a guidance counselor after her father passed away, that her mother found out that she had spoken with a guidance counselor and had a very strong negative reaction to that, and told her that she shouldn't be talking about personal family matters and shouldn't be talking about what happens in their household. THE COURT: Ms. Menninger. MS. MENNINGER: I have no objection to that, your Honor. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you for previewing it. Anything else to take up? MS. MOE: Not from the government, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Menninger? MS. MENNINGER: No, your Honor. Not now. THE COURT: We'll take a short break. Thank you. (Recess) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068795

3 3 4 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Nothing to take up; correct? MS. MOE: Correct, your Honor. MS. MENNINGER: Correct, your Honor. THE COURT: We'11 bring in the jury. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068796

335 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Jury present) THE COURT: Thank you, everyone. Ms. Moe, you may continue with your direct examination of the witness. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. BY MS. MOE: Q. Before the break, we were talking about your interactions with your mother during this time period when you were 14, 15, and 16. I want to ask you, during that time period, did you ever talk with your mother about Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. What kinds of things would she say to you about Maxwell and Epstein? now. THE COURT: I'm going to give the limiting instruction Members of the jury, the witness may provide some testimony regarding things that her mother said to her. I instruct you that that testimony is not being offered for the truth of the matter of what was said, but instead for the purposes of its impact on the listener of this witness. You may proceed. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Q. Would it be helpful if I ask the question again? A. Yes, please. Q. Sorry about that. During this time period that we've been SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068797

336 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LBUCmax5 - direct talking about when you were 14 and 15 and 16, did you ever talk with your mother about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. What kinds of things would she say to you about Epstein and Maxwell during that time period. A. What would she say? I'm sorry. I'm not really understanding your question. Q. Of course. When would you talk to your mother during those years about Maxwell and Epstein, what, if anything, would she say to you about her impressions of them? A. My mother seemed very impressed and enamored with the sort of the wealth, the affluence. She thought they seemed very generous and they must think I'm special and that I should be grateful for the attention that I received. Q. During this time period, did you ever tell your mother about the sexual abuse that you were experiencing when were you at Epstein's house? A. No. Q. Why didn't you tell your mother during those years? A. Because I felt very ashamed, I felt very disgusted, I was confused, I didn't know if it was my fault, and my mother and I did not have that kind of a relationship. We didn't talk about our feelings. We weren't allowed to. I was raised in a household where you were sort of spoken to, and you don't speak unless you're spoken to, and I would be afraid that I would be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068798

LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in trouble if I said something. Q. During those same years, did you tell your brothers or any of your friends that you were being sexually abused by Maxwell and Epstein? A. No. Q. And why not? A. Because how do you tell or describe any of this to any one of your peers or your siblings when all you feel is shame and disgust and confusion and you don't even know how you ended up there. Q. Were there ever times when you were 14 or 15 and 16, while all of this was happening, where you thought about hurting yourself? A. Yeah. Q. Can you explain to the jury what that was like for you? A. Well, it was a multitude of things, of my father dying and losing our home and then having a manic depressed mother who didn't know how to cope and know how to take care of us and, you know, just kind of feeling like it was hopeless, I guess. It didn't seem like there was a lot of joy to look forward to and it was just -- it was all it was very painful. It was all very difficult. Q. Did there come a time when you were a kid when you spoke to a school guidance counselor? A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068799

338 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Approximately when was that? A. In the 7th grade. Q. How did you go to see the guidance counselor when you were in the 7th grade? A. Well, actually, she asked to speak to me. She called me in her office and said -- asked me what was going on at home, if we had been or I had been in grief counseling and how my mother was doing. So I told her how I was feeling and how sad I was and, you know, how unavailable my mother was and how unsupportive and there was really no one for me to talk to. So I spoke to her and she was -- she was lovely and she would - when she would see me. She would say if you need a place to go, just come to my office and sit there and we'll talk. Q. After you spoke with the guidance counselor, did there come a time when you learned that your mother had become aware about the conversations you were having with the guidance counselor? A. Yes. I came home from school one day and my mother said that the guidance counselor had called her and had said that she wanted to see her because she was very worried about me. My mother proceeded to berate me and scream at me and slap me and tell me how dare I talk about myself and our family and that it was an embarrassment, and that you don't tell other people about your feelings or what's going on at home. Q. I want to pause here and ask a few questions about the sexual abuse you described experiencing when you were 14 and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068800

339 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when you were 15 and when you were 16. Just to be clear, were there times when that happened when it was just you and Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Were there times when that happened when it was just you and Epstein and Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Were there times when that happened when it was you and Epstein and Maxwell and other women? A. Yes. Q. All those three categories, what happened the most during those years? A. Me and Jeffrey. Q. What was the next most frequent thing that happened? A. The group situations. Q. Approximately how many times during the years that you were 14 and 15 and 16 was Ghislaine Maxwell in the room while you were being sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein? A. I don't know. Q. Why is it hard to remember the specific number? A. It's hard to remember because I was abused pretty much every time that I would go over to his house and it all started to seem the same after a while, whether it was just him or there were other women involved or me and Jeffrey and Ghislaine, it all started to seem the same after a while and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068801

340 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you just become numb to it. Q. Is it fair to say that she was frequently in the room while you were being sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein when you were 14, 15, and 16? MS. MENNINGER: Objection. THE COURT: I'll sustain. Please rephrase. Q. Was Maxwell in the room just once while you were being sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein? A. No. Q. Was it just twice? A. No. Q. Approximately how many times? A. I don't know, but more than twice. MS. MOE: Your Honor, just one moment, please. THE COURT: Sure. Q. I want to ask you about that third category that I asked you about the incidents where it was you and Maxwell and Epstein and other people who were in the room. What was typically happening before incidents like that would start? A. It would typically be something very casual, like hanging out by the pool or sitting around in a living room or in the kitchen and just be, like, very seemingly casual hangouts. Q. When you would spend time at Epstein's house in Palm Beach, were there other women present in the house? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068802

341 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Would those women sometimes be involved in these encounters? A. Yes. MS. MOE: Just one moment, your Honor. THE COURT: Sure. Q. How would you typically transition from hanging around the house or hanging around the pool to the incidents that you've described? A. We were summoned to follow Jeffrey up into his bedroom or massage room. Q. Can I ask you to please look at the binder in front of you. If you could please turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 245. Thank you. Do you recognize that? A. Yes. Q. What is Government Exhibit 245? A. It's two pictures of myself. MS. MOE: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 245 under seal. MS. MENNINGER: No objection, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. GX245 is admitted under seal consistent with my ruling, allowing this witness to testify using a pseudonym. (Government's Exhibit 245 received in evidence) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068803

342 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. May the jurors turn to Exhibit 245 in their binders? THE COURT: Yes, please. You may pick up your binder and turn to GX245. BY MS. MOE: Q. Looking at Government Exhibit 245, do you recognize those two photographs? A. Yes. Q. Can you please describe to the jury what those two photographs are? A. Well, the large larger photograph in the back is a modeling picture of me, approximately age 15. The one in the front is like my first head shot at about 19. Q. For the smaller picture in the corner, did you give a copy of that photograph to Jeffrey Epstein? A. I did. Q. Did you write a note on that photograph? A. I did. Q. What did you write on the photograph? A. Well, cringey enough, I wrote, thanks for rocking my world. Q. Why did you write that? A. Well, my mother made me send him a picture after I had gotten my first big job, and that's when I had taken this picture and, in fairness, I used to write really bad captions for people when I would write -- sign a headshot. So that was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068804

343 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 my attempt at being cool, I guess. Q. I want to ask you, , how did you feel at the time about the attention that Epstein and Maxwell were paying to you when you were in middle school and high school? A. How did I feel about the attention? Q. Yes. A. Initially, I felt special. You know, I didn't -- I didn't really have much support or attention at home, so he was someone who was seemingly looking out for me and caring for me is how it felt. Q. Why was that important to you at the time, to feel cared about? A. Because I didn't have any family that made me feel cared about. Q. In your adult life, how has what happened to you with Maxwell and Epstein affected your relationships? MS. MENNINGER: Objection, your Honor. Relevance. THE COURT: Just a moment. MS. MENNINGER: May we have a sidebar if there is any -- THE COURT: Let's do that. (Continued on next page) (Pages 344 to 347 SEALED) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068805

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348 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (In open court) THE COURT: You may proceed, Ms. Moe. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. BY MS. MOE: Q. Let me back up and ask you a few questions. You testified in the beginning Epstein and Maxwell made you feel special. Can you explain to the jury what it is they did that made you feel special when it first started? A. Well, they made me feel special by spending time with me, talking to me, asking me about my family, my interests, what _ was doing, what I was doing in school, what I wanted to do with my life. They took me to the movies, they took me shopping, and took me on field trips, I guess you could say. Q. And to be clear, during this time, did Maxwell talk with you about your school and your family and what was going on with you and your life? A. Yeah. Q. You testified that you felt this way in the beginning. Did there come a time when that changed? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell the jury about that. A. Well, it changed when the abuse started happening. Q. Can you explain for the jury how has what Maxwell and Epstein did to you affected your relationships as an adult? A. That's a loaded question. Sure you could ask a lot of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068810

349 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 people their opinions on that. How do you navigate a healthy relationship with a broken compass? I didn't even understand what real love is supposed to look like. It ruined my self-esteem, my selfworth, I don't know how men were supposed to treat me and how I was supposed to reciprocate any of that. It led me to not trust people and probably make bad decisions in future boyfriends. Q. Earlier, we were talking about the years that you lived in Palm Beach and about the time when you moved away from Palm Beach. Can you tell the jury, approximately when did you move away from Palm Beach? A. Approximately 17 years old. Q. Did you go to school when you moved to New York City? A. Yes. Q. Where did you go to school? A. Professional Children's School. Q. When you moved to New York City when you were 17 to go to the Professional Children's School, who paid for your tuition? A. Jeffrey Epstein. Q. About how old were you when you started school in New York City? A. I just turned 18. Q. What year of school were you starting? A. Senior year of high school. Q. During your senior year of high school, did you spend time SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068811

350 LBUCmax5 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did you spend time with Ghislaine Maxwell that year? A. Yes. Q. During that year when you were a senior in high school, did you continue engaging in sexualized massages with Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. To be clear, did you want to keep doing that? A. No. Q. Did you graduate from school that year? A. Yes. Q. Did there come a time after you graduated when you moved away from New York? A. Yes. Q. Approximately when was that? A. October of 1999. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068812

351 LBUVMAX6 - direct BY MS. MOE: 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Where did you go when you moved away from New York City in October of '99? A. Los Angeles, California. Q. Why did you move to Los Angeles? A. Because I got a job Q. can you tell the jury what kind of work do you do now? A. I am grateful to still be Q. For how many years have you been employed as A. Twenty-two years. Q. After you moved to California, did you stay in touch with Epstein and Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. For about how many years? A. Until approximately the end of 2002. Q. Approximately how old were you during that year? A. Twenty-two. Q. During the year that you were -- withdrawn. After you moved away, did you continue to travel with Maxwell and Epstein? A. With Epstein for sure. Q. When you traveled with Epstein in your early twenties, did you travel in his private jet? A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068813

352 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did there come a time when you stopped being in touch with Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Approximately when was that? A. The end of 2002. Q. And why did you stop seeing him at the end of 2002? A. Because I fell madly in love with someone, and we got very quickly engaged. And Jeffrey would call me. And my new fiancé would ask, Who is this person who calls you and that you sort of have to drop everything for to take that call? And I said, Oh, it's -- that's my godfather. And he just kind of said, Well, what do you mean your godfather? You just tell him you'll call him back. I said, No, it doesn't work that way. And he had a pretty abrasive personality himself, this guy. And he said, Well, don't call him back. And that was sort of -- well, that wasn't the end of it. I didn't call him back. And then he tried contacting me again and leaving me voicemails that became increasingly agitated in saying that I need to call him back, he was coming into town to visit, and he wanted to see me, and that I need to be grateful and remember what he's done for me. Because my mother had still been living in an apartment in New York after I moved away that he was paying for. And then I didn't return his call. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068814

353 LBUVMAX6 - direct And do you want me to continue? Q. That's all right. Was that the last contact you had with him? 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. I think you mentioned that the person you were dating at that time you were engaged to. Did you end up marrying him? A. No. Q. Did there come a time in the late 2000s when you were in a romantic relationship with someone else? A. In the late 2000s? Yes. Q. Approximately what years were you dating that man? A. 2007 through 2013. Q. For today's purposes, I'm going to refer to that man as Will you do that? A. Yes. Q. While you were together, did you ever tell that you'd been sexually abused by Maxwell and Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Why did you tell him? A. I told him because that was around the time that you started seeing on the news that Epstein had been arrested and, you know, you sort of would see his face everywhere and it would make me very emotional. And my boyfriend at the time would notice that and kind of wonder. And you know -- and then there would be moments of vulnerability that I sort of started SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068815

354 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to share, like, some of the things that had happened to me, not in detail, but, you know, it took a long time to really share any of that stuff with him. Q. Directing your attention to September of 2019, were you interviewed by the FBI that month? A. Yes. Q. Before that time, had you ever spoken with law enforcement about Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell? A. What was the month you mentioned? Q. Before you were interviewed by the FBI in September of 2019, had you ever spoken with law enforcement about what had happened to you with Maxwell and Epstein? A. I think that month is incorrect. I think it's -- Q. Approximately what month do you remember being interviewed by the FBI? A. May. Q. Of what year? A. Of 2019. Q. Before that first interview, had you ever spoken with law enforcement about what happened to you with Maxwell and Epstein? A. No. Q. Did there come a time when you sued Ghislaine Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Approximately when did you file that lawsuit? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068816

355 LBUVMAX6 - direct A. Early 2020. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. To be clear, was that after you had told the government what had happened to you? A. Yes. Q. At the time that you sued Ghislaine Maxwell, did you also sue the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein at that same time? A. Yes. Q. Did you bring that lawsuit under a pseudonym to protect your identity? A. Yes. Q. After you filed that lawsuit, did you participate in a victim compensation fund for victims of Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. What did you do as part of submitting a claim to that fund? A. Well, I had to submit documents and speak to the people who ran the fund. Q. Did the fund award you money? A. Yes. Q. How much money did the fund award you? A. $5 million. Q. Did that money come from the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did you receive all of that money? A. No. Q. And why not? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068817

356 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Because some of it has to go to counsel and litigation and filing documents and such. Q. How much did you ultimately receive? A. Approximately 2.9 million. Q. Has that money been wired to you already? A. Yes. Q. As part of the settlement that you received from the fund, were you required to dismiss your lawsuit against Maxwell and the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. And did you dismiss the lawsuit against Maxwell after you received an award from the fund? A. Yes. Q. Based on your understanding, will the jury's verdict in this case affect the award that you received from the victim compensation fund? MS. MENNINGER: Objection, your Honor. THE COURT: Just a moment. I have to hear you. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068818

357 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (At sidebar) THE COURT: The question is whether the jury's verdict will affect what she receives from the victim compensation fund? MS. MENNINGER: Right. I think she has a lack of personal knowledge about that, your Honor. It's a legal conclusion, a legal question. She's not the right witness to talk about that. THE COURT: You want the jury -- you want to put in front of the jury that the involvement in this case affects payout from the legal compensation fund. MS. MENNINGER: Well, your Honor, this is something that we litigated, which is, any suggestion that the victim's compensation fund was based on some kind of finding of validity of her claims. THE COURT: I agree with that. I don't see what that has to do with this question. MS. MENNINGER: I think she has told this story to the victim compensation fund, they have given her money, and now if she is found -- if our client was found not guilty, for example, I don't know what the ramifications would be for a fund who has determined -- THE COURT: Well, the question to be phrased is what her understanding is. I mean, you have well put in issue the question of whether this fund impacts her motivation to tell SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068819

358 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the truth or not, which is precisely why I granted the Rule 17 subpoena and, I suspect, in the opening raised this issue precisely. So whether it's true or not, the question is what is her understanding. So if the question is phrased that way, I will overrule the objection. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. In fact, that is exactly how I phrased that question for that reason. MS. MENNINGER: I still think it's a legal conclusion, your Honor, asking someone, you know, what is the effect of a contract or what is -- how can a contract be dissolved. It's just not within the ken of a person who is not -- THE COURT: I can give a limiting instruction that testimony is not being offered for -- as a legal instruction, but for the witness's understanding. MS. MENNINGER: Sure. That would be better -- THE COURT: Any objection? MS. MOE: No, your Honor. I think this is very commonplace, it happens all the time. For example, when cooperators testify about their understanding of whether, for example, a verdict in a case affects their cooperation agreement with the government, I don't think there's a limiting instruction; because, again, the question is about this person's understanding. I can make that very clear when I ask the question. It's directly responsive to defense arguments about whether this witness has a motive to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068820

359 LBUVMAX6 - direct lie. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MENNINGER: In cooperating situations, your Honor, the sentence happens after the testimony. THE COURT: Well, they are not the same, but I think the point is the same. I'll give a limiting instruction that -- after she testifies, that the jury should understand she's not providing legal instruction, but testifying as to her understanding in response to the question. And so with that -- and you'll say the question again, make sure it's phrased from her understanding. With that, I'll overrule. I don't see any reason this should be sealed. MS. MOE: No, your Honor. MS. MENNINGER: No, your Honor. MS. MOE: Just to avoid a second sidebar, I just wanted to flag, after asking this question, I expect the next question I would ask would be just simply, Do you have a financial stake in the outcome of this case? Again, that's about her understanding, whether she believes she has a financial -- which is exactly what the defense suggested in their opening. THE COURT: Oh, there's no doubt. MS. MOE: I just want to flag that. THE COURT: You have an objection to that question? MS. MENNINGER: No, your Honor. But I think she does SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068821

360 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have a financial stake -- THE COURT: That's what you argue to the jury. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, one other thing. If she did, in fact, give a statement to law enforcement in May of 2019, it hasn't been disclosed to us. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. My understanding, I was at that very first meeting. I can double-check my notes, which we produced to the defense, it is September 2019. THE COURT: Do you want to refresh her recollection on the date or you don't have any notes from May 2099? MS. MOE: I do not. THE COURT: You're certainly welcome to inquire. MS. MENNINGER: Certainly, your Honor. On her dates. MS. MOE: I'm sorry. My colleague is -- again, I don't remember this off the top of my head, but MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I believe what is possibly happening in the witness's answer about May 2019 is that I believe before the September 2019 interview, FBI agents approached this witness and asked her if she was willing to be interviewed. She declined. And I believe that may have happened around May of 2019. So she may be confusing that as the first time she ever spoke with the FBI. But she was not substantively interviewed and did not give substantive statements until September of 2019. THE COURT: All right. Not sealed. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068822

361 LBUVMAX6 - direct (In open court) THE COURT: You may proceed, Ms. Moe. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. MOE: Q. based on your understanding, will the jury's verdict in this case affect the award that you received from the fund? A. No. THE COURT: I'll just instruct the jury the witness is not providing legal instruction, but responding to the question of her understanding. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Q. And just to be clear, do you have any financial stake in the outcome of this trial? A. No. Q. Before this trial, have you ever publicly revealed your identity as a victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell? A. No. Q. Do you want the public to know your true identity? A. No. Q. Why is it important to you to remain anonymous? A. Because I've always just wanted to put this past me. moved on with my life. I am proud that I have my own career, my own husband, my own children, and I work in the And victim shaming is still very present to this day. And I was also afraid that it was going SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068823

362 LBUVMAX6 - direct 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to affect my career if somebody looks at me and that's all they see and that they won't hire me based on that. So I didn't really want any part of it; I just wanted it to go away. MS. MOE: Your Honor, if I could just have one moment. THE COURT: You may. (Counsel conferred) MS. MOE: Nothing further, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Ms. Menninger, you may begin your cross-examination. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, consistent with past practice, I have a binder to provide to the witness in case electronics don't work. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Moe? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. So long as we are provided a copy with the item before they are reviewed, we have no objection. THE COURT: Consistent with how we've been proceeding, you will be. Thank you. You may approach. MS. MENNINGER: May I take off my mask, your Honor? THE COURT: Yes, you may. (Pages 363 to 389 SEALED) (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068824

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390 LBUVMAX6 - cross 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 evening. THE COURT: It's 5 o'clock. So we'll break for the Members of the jury, thank you for your attention and diligence. I remind you to please bear in mind all of my instructions and rules as you break for the evening. And we'll start up again at the same time. Please arrive in time to grab some breakfast and get ready to go. We'll bring you out at 9:30. Thank you so much. Have a great evening. (Jury not present) THE COURT: The witness may step down for the evening. See you in the morning. I remind the witness and the government, since the witness is under cross-examination, other than logistical information, there won't be any communication on substance. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. Everyone may be seated. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068852

391 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Jury not present) THE COURT: We have some matters to take up? MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. With respect to the Rule 16 issue, defendants Exhibit J36, what's never produced to the government in Rule 16, the Court set a Rule 16 production deadline of November 8th of this year. It appears that this may have been taken November 17th of this year, but just because it came into existence after that deadline does not excuse the defense from producing anything that they plan to offer in evidence in this trial. So this is a violation of Rule 16. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Menninger. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, that rule applies to any documents that we're offering in our case in chief, not as impeachment. In the government's presentation of evidence with this witness, they talked about a particular home and the characteristics of that home. I am impeaching the witness with an exhibit that presents a contrary home. The rule does not apply to impeachment material, it applies to things we intend to offer in our case in chief as per the rule. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, then this is extrinsic evidence that is inadmissible under the rules of evidence to impeach. THE COURT: So it's one page of J36; correct? MS. MENNINGER: Correct, your Honor. I offered page SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068853

392 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3, your Honor. THE COURT: How did page 3 impeach? MS. MENNINGER: Because it shows the house and the street that she lives on which is very different from what she described as her childhood home. She said we were homeless. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, A, that's not accurate, and B, I think it is a clear violation of Rule 408(b). They're trying to offer extrinsic evidence. It's not a prior inconsistent statement. It's not something that falls under the criminal convictions contemplated by Rule 609. This is clearly precluded by the rules of evidence. THE COURT: I'll sustain. What's next? MS. MENNINGER: On what grounds, your Honor? On a Rule 16 violation? THE COURT: Rule 16. She recognized the street. The document is a current photograph. She seemed to me that she recognized the street because the document indicated the street on it. She was reading the document. So also not impeaching. MS. MENNINGER: We'll find another way to introduce it, your Honor. THE COURT: I'm sorry, can you -- MS. MENNINGER: We will try to find another way to introduce it. THE COURT: Okay. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, to the extent it's going to be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068854

LBUCmax7 introduced, it's in violation of Rule 16. I think to the 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 extent there are other exhibits that the defense intends to offer that have not already been produced to us, we would ask that the Court order that they make those productions forthwith. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, we have a very different view of Rule 16. If it is an impeachment document, it is not covered by the rule. We will brief this tonight if your Honor would like. I have a very different view, apparently, than Ms. Comey. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, we do not believe that any prior inconsistent statements that would be admissible -- THE COURT: It's not a prior inconsistent statement. MS. COMEY: Exactly, your Honor. Nothing else is admissible as impeachment by my reading of the rules of evidence. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, anything that goes to the witness's memory, bias, motive, all of those are impeachment materials. Impeachment is not limited to prior inconsistent statements. That's just not the state of the law. THE COURT: You can brief it. So if the witness testifies I live in a blue house and you go out tonight and take a photograph of the house and it's a red house -- MS. MENNINGER: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: -- and you want to introduce a photograph SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068855

39.1 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of the red house to impeach the testimony that she lives in a blue house, you show it to the government before or no? MS. MENNINGER: I did just show it to the government. THE COURT: Before the beginning of the day? MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, I believe it's impeachment and it comes in when it comes in. I did not believe that your Honor ordered us to produce impeachment materials prior to trial. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I think we may need to brief this tonight. THE COURT: You'll brief it. You'll brief it. A specific example would be helpful. I suppose you can use this one complicated by the fact that my understanding of the testimony was that she was -- she said that's the street I lived on, reading a document that she had never seen before, from a photograph taken in 2021. So I suppose the question is, perhaps you could pick another example, or you could imagine that photograph without the information -- MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, if I had a photograph from that time period, I certainly would have used it. That's the only thing available to me. I would say, your Honor, that the government has just introduced, today, photographs that were taken in the last year of Epstein home when we're talking about events that happened SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068856

395 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in '94, '95, and '96. So I'm not really sure. THE COURT: There was a witness who testified as to it being an accurate reflection of what the home looked like; right? MS. MENNINGER: Without saying when, yes. A witness who continued to work for Mr. Epstein up until 2019. THE COURT: I mean, I suppose you're welcome to object to foundation, but there wasn't an objection to foundation. In any event, you'll brief whether the defense is obligated under Rule 16 to produce in advance to the government documents that clearly -- and we're not talking about statements. MS. COMEY: That's correct, your Honor. We're talking about an exhibit like a photograph, something like this very exhibit seems like classical 16. So we'll brief it, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Certainly, there is at least two situations. There is the situation in which the witness said something and you couldn't have anticipated what they said and you have something that you want to impeach with it, you couldn't have produced that in advance. So the question is not that, but obviously when you anticipate particular testimony and you have material that you think impeaches that you intend to introduce as evidence through cross examination. Whether you're obligated under Rule 16 to turn that over in advance, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068857

396 LBUCmax7 that's the question. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So government's objection, so when would you like to brief? MS. COMEY: Your Honor, may we have by 9:00 p.m. tonight? THE COURT: And Ms. Menninger? Or you could put in first. You tell me your preference. MS. MENNINGER: If I could confer, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, is it all right if Ms. Drescher begins collecting the juror binders while we continue? THE COURT: Sure. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, we would prefer to put in our support why this is not covered by Rule 16 by 9:00 p.m. THE COURT: You can do that. When would the government like to respond? You can simultaneously put in letters. Why don't we do that. You'll both put in letters at 9:00. MS. COMEY: That's fine, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. We need to deal with the witness identifying information. How are we going to handle this, Ms. Moe? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. We appreciate an opportunity to confer with the defense about the subject matter SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068858

397 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at a high level of cross and what might troubleshoot these issues in advance in solution that avoids wasting the jury's be identified so we can order to work on a time and, most importantly, jeopardizing the privacy of a crime victim. We have previously reached out to defense to ask to confer about some of these issues. We would like to do that this evening. I am concerned that there may be topics that are identifying as to this victim and we would be happy to talk it through with defense counsel and work out a solution about anonymizing names or other issues as we continued all along in this case. So we ask the Court to direct the parties to meet and confer on that issue given the steaks of that issue in this case. THE COURT: Ms. Menninger, the witness is on cross, so they can't confer with the witness. Any reason not to do that? MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, I see no reason not to confer with the government about a way that we can accommodate this. THE COURT: You can do that. If you have different views, you'll raise them with me by letter tonight if you come to a point of disagreement. Okay? MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. MS. MENNINGER: Thank you. THE COURT: Anything else? MS. MENNINGER: Not from us, your Honor. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068859

398 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: And just so -- I sealed the sidebar where we discussed identifying information about the witness and because I sealed a portion of the testimony so that the government can propose redactions. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. Thank you. THE COURT: When will you do that by? MS. MOE: Proposed redactions, your Honor? Your Honor, I'm not quite sure at what time this evening we'll receive the court transcript, but we'd be happy to do that perhaps by midday tomorrow. THE COURT: That's fine. I would just like to set a time for if I'm going to hear from you on disagreement as to how to proceed on cross so as to avoid public identifying information. What's a reasonable time for you to confer and put in a letter if there is disagreement? MS. MOE: Your Honor, we'd be happy to confer following the court day today. With respect to any disagreements, we can file simultaneous letters at perhaps 10 o'clock this evening. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Menninger. MS. MENNINGER: That's fine, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. What else do we need to address? MS. MOE: Your Honor, we had just one issue to raise regarding the next witness. We just wanted to let the Court SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068860

399 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know, as the Court may recall, testified earlier today about having disclosed having been abused to a person who we are identifying in this proceeding as We anticipate that would be the next witness in this case who would be testifying about a prior consistent statement by . We are offering that testimony under both prongs of Rule 801(d)(1), and I'd be happy to walk that through with the Court. With respect to the first prong of the rule -- THE COURT: Is there an objection? MS. STERNHEIM: I'd like to hear their bases. THE COURT: You have clarity on what the statement is? MS. STERNHEIM: Well -- THE COURT: I don't, so I don't know if you do or not. MS. STERNHEIM: I think I would have to parse what the next witness is going to say with the testimony here because it doesn't dovetail as the government is suggesting. THE COURT: Okay. Can you be specific? MS. MOE: Of course, your Honor. I'd be happy to provide a proffer. I'd anticipate that ■ would testify that he was in a relationship with in 2007, '08, and '09, and years thereafter. And during those years, he recalls having conversations with in which told him that when she was growing up as a kid, her family struggled financially and he asked her how they were able to pay for things when she was growing up, and she told him that there was this uncle or SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068861

400 LBUCmax7 godfather-like figure when she was growing up who helped the 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 family. I anticipate that will testify that told him during these conversations that the money was not for free, that she had to do things that she didn't want to do, that that included massages. I also anticipate that would testify that there was a woman in the room and he recalls describing that a woman was present while this happened who would make her and other girls who were in the room feel comfortable while it happened. THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim. MS. STERNHEIM: Your Honor, I think it's somewhat premature since the cross examination has not been concluded yet. I am mindful of the purpose why they're calling this witness, but I think we have to wait to see what happens in cross examination. I don't understand what they're asking for right now. MS. MOE: Your Honor, defense counsel put this issue in their opening statement by challenging credibility and her memory in particular. So the foundation is in the record for a prior consistent statement to be admitted under both prongs of the rule. With respect to the first prong of 801(d)(1)(B), it is offered to rebut an express or implied charge the declarant recently fabricated it or acted from a recent improper influence or motive in so testifying. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068862

401 LBUCmax7 Here defense counsel, in opening statements, suggested 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to the jury that a recent motive to fabricate in this case was civil litigation in a particular Jeffrey Epstein victim compensation fund. So this statement is offered expressly to rebut that because, in fact, had told someone about this a decade before that or more. With respect to the second prong of the rule, the statement is proper to rehabilitate the declarant's credibility as a witness when attacked on another ground. The advisory committee notes the rule expressly explained that one of the grounds for rehabilitation is when that witness's memory has been challenged, and here given this witness had made that statement much earlier in time closer to the events, this statement would be appropriate under the second prong of the rule, as well. MS. STERNHEIM: My response is still I think we need to wait until her cross examination is over. I understand what they are intending to do. It has to be evaluated whether the statement that they allege she made to Matt is really a prior consistent statement on her. MS. MOE: Your Honor, in our view -- THE COURT: Isn't the question whether it's a prior consistent statement with what she testified on direct? MS. STERNHEIM: It's not entirely clear because her statement to him is extraordinarily vague and he did research SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068863

402 LBUCmax7 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and put it together by himself. THE COURT: You can cross him on that. MS. STERNHEIM: I understand that. I'm not challenging. I'm just saying that I think the full issue should be addressed at the conclusion of this witness's testimony. THE COURT: All right. We'll address it at the conclusion of the witness's testimony. I understand the government's point to be that the prongs of the rule are both put in issue by the defense's opening, attacking, I suppose, all of the witness's credibility on memory, on recent fabrication, and monetary incentive. So I suppose the government's position, if I understand it, is that in light of that opening, any prior consistent statement of any of the witnesses comes in. Is that the contention? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. Defense counsel has kicked the door wide open. So under both prongs of the rule, all prior consistent statements of the witnesses in this case are admissible. THE COURT: Do you anticipate beyond the next witness the same issue occurring? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor, with respect to other victims in this case. THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim, your view is that the opening hasn't sufficiently put the specific credibility of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068864

403 LBUCmax7 each of the witnesses in issue such that the rule would allow 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 prior consistent statements? I suppose a particular statement being offered is testimony, but I don't know that it has the question is whether consistent with the to be with respect to cross. It seems to me it has to be with respect to direct, because you asked the jury essentially to evaluate all of the witnesses' testimony as being motivated by memory issues, manipulation, and monetary motivations. So I think that's the issue. I'll certainly think about that question and then consider the -- I think this is a useful example. I'm happy to hear -- I mean, it strikes me that's right, but I'm happy to hear why that MS. STERNHEIM: I'm not suggesting, for an opportunity to dovetail her testimony wouldn't I'm just with the be right. asking statement that is the support for the next witness's testimony. I'm not seeking to preclude, I'm just asking for an opportunity on the issue of prior consistency. THE COURT: We can pick this up in the morning, but the government made a specific proffer of anticipated testimony based on direct testimony, which is to say -- I mean, when the witness is testifying, you could say that's not consistent with the prior testimony. Is that what you want to do? MS. STERNHEIM: I'm just asking for an opportunity to compare it. I am not standing here saying I'm opposing it. THE COURT: I got it. So it's not about the cross of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068865

404 LBUCmax7 this witness, it's about the direct of the next witness; fair to say? MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. And there could be redirect that 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 might, in some way, have bearing on this, but I will review it in connection with the direct examination of this witness. THE COURT: Okay. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you for previewing it. We'll take it as it comes. I understand the government's position, I understand Ms. Sternheim's request to evaluate it. It's the specific testimony that comes in on direct of the next witness in light of what happens yet on cross. Anything else? MS. MOE: Not from the government, your Honor. Thank you. THE COURT: We'll meet again at 8:45. As soon as we have the jury, we'll take up issues, I'll see a briefing, and hopefully we can get resolution and we'll start with the jury as soon as there here. We're adjourned. (Adjourned to December 1, 2021 at 8:45 a.m.) * * * SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068866

405 Examination of: INDEX OF EXAMINATION Page 4 Direct By Ms. Comey 138 5 Cross By Mr. Everdell 182 6 Redirect By Ms. Comey 281 7 8 Direct By Ms. Moe 286 9 Cross By Ms. Menninger 363 10 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS 11 Exhibit No. Received 12 327, 310 141 13 334, 335 142 14 328 143 15 323, 706 148 16 705 152 17 346 155 18 308 156 19 326 157 20 703 158 21 311, 312 163 22 344, 345 164 23 315, 336 165 24 301, 302 167 25 303 169 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068867

406 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 1004 176 106 290 107 325 4 108 326 5 245 341 6 DEFENDANT EXHIBITS 7 Exhibit No. Received 8 LV3A, LV3B 227 9 LV4, LV5 231 10 JOINT EXHIBITS 11 J-3 389 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 EFTA00068868