201 1 watch. Came off. And they put him with the 2 other guy. No-no. They put him with someone 3 else. I don't know. 4 MR. : So initially he is with - 5 is it 6 MR. -: he was named. 7 Yeah. 8 MR. : And then he went to 9 suicide watch. 10 MR. : Uh-huh. 11 MR. : Came back on Jul 30th 12 like that. So from July 30th to August 9th. 13 As ops lieutenant or otherwise, did you have 14 any conversations with anybody working on the 15 SHU - in the SHU - on August 9th or August 10th 16 about Epstein? 17 MR. : Yeah. 18 MR. : And what were those 19 conversations entail? 20 MR. : Uh you know just hey, leave 21 him with - just gotta make sure they got down 22 here early. You've got legal visits. Uh I 23 know he was asking for a phone call. This is 24 like basic you know regular stuff. 25 MR. : What about with regard to EFTA00062849

202 1 making sure they're doing rounds or that he has 2 a cellmate? Did you have any conversations 3 from the time you got that email on? After you 4 got that email, did you call down to the SHU 5 and say hey, or visit the SHU, and say hey make 6 sure he's got a -? 7 MR. : I can't recall. 8 MR. : Did you -? 9 MR. : And I wouldn't do it if I'm 10 not the - 11 MR. : Right. 12 MR. : You know? 13 MR. : Did you take any action 14 after receiving that email? Did you talk to 15 anybody about it? 16 MR. : I can't recall. 17 MR. : That email was Why 18 was that email sent out to all the lieutenants? 19 MR. : I told you. They send it out 20 every time someone comes off suicide watch. 21 MR. : Right. So what is the 22 purpose of that? 23 MR. : For the doing they job. 24 MR. : So by you getting it and 25 doing your job as like an ops lieutenant. Or EFTA00062850

203 1 an activities' lieutenant. What does that - is 2 that something that you're supposed to make 3 other people aware of? Or why do they provide 4 you with that information? 5 MR. : I think they required to. 6 MR. : They're required to? 7 MR. : I think they're required, or 8 it could be a reminder. Hey, by the way, this 9 guy's getting released off suicide watch and 10 placed him with an inmate in SHU. 11 MR. : But is it so you can then 12 follow-up to make sure the CO's know? Or there 13 must be a reason rather than just for your own 14 information. There's got to be. Usually 15 you're provided information for a specific 16 reason. So why are lieutenants provided that 17 information? Rather than just the SHU 18 lieutenant? Why are everybody else provided 19 it? 20 MR. : Uh I'm not sure. But they 21 send an email out to everybody though. 22 MR. : Right. 23 MR. : Lieutenants (Indiscernible 24 *02:35:05). 25 MR. : SO that's what I'm EFTA00062851

204 1 saying. Well it's not an all-staff email. 2 It's like -. 3 MR. : No. It's a correctional 4 services and correctional systems. Right? 5 MR. : Oh you can tell me. Here 6 I'll show you. I thought it was primarily 7 lieutenants. I mean I think a couple SHU staff 8 might be on there. But it's the three pages 9 behind it. 10 MR. : Okay. So suicide watch psych 11 observation update. So you got legal in here, 12 food service, case managers, lieutenants, unit 13 team -. 14 MR. : So by reviewing that are 15 you able to tell like is there a target 16 audience that they're 17 MR. : No. 18 MR. : -- sending it out to? 19 MR. : This is to make everybody 20 aware. 21 MR. : Because it's not an all- 22 staff email though is it? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : So who are they sending 25 it to? EFTA00062852

205 1 MR. : Uh.... 2 MR. : Like how do they come up 3 with that group of people to send it to? 4 MR. : It's the same way we do the 5 logs. We send it to the same group every 6 night. 7 MR. : What group is that? 8 MR. : Then Executive staff, then 9 lieutenants, then psychology, then a psycho 10 assistant, it's a 11 MR. 12 staff though? 13 MR. : Correctional staff yeah. 14 It's not all correctional officers though. 15 MR. 16 officers? So is it all correctional So is everybody but the 17 MR. : You got some officers on here 18 too. 19 MR. : But you're not sure how 20 they make that decision? 21 MR. : No. Yeah. You got medical, 22 lieutenants, food service, R&D, legal, duty 23 officer, yeah. I mean I think they would 24 probably do this it's for your information. 25 Like FYI. EFTA00062853

206 1 MR. : But you know -. I 2 understand where the FYI. 3 MR. : Is that a target audience? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : You're not clear on why 7 they 8 MR. : (Indiscernible *02:37:15) No. 9 MR. : -- send it to those 10 specific people? Okay. But as far as you 11 receiving it. 12 MR. : Yeah, I can't recall if I 13 spoke to him about it up internal or not. 14 MR. : And that wouldn't be like 15 - that's not the way it works whereas provide 16 the information to lieutenants and the 17 lieutenants make sure that you provide the 18 information the COs? 19 MR. : It depends on your area. 20 Like if I'm the SHU lieutenant right now, 21 right. 22 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 23 MR. : So they say hey, this 24 guy's coming in. Make sure. Okay. Make sure 25 you know. I'm saying directly to the staff I'm EFTA00062854

207 1 supervising. 2 MR. : Is it the ops 3 lieutenant's job to make sure the SHU 4 lieutenant does it? 5 MR. : Mm. 6 MR. : Is there any oversight 7 there? Does the ops lieutenant kind of have 8 oversight over the SHU lieutenant? 9 MR. : I mean sometimes the SHU 10 lieutenant has rank on an ops lieutenant. 11 MR. : Oh. It depends on if 12 you're a 9 or an 11? 13 MR. : yeah. 14 MR. : All right. So it's not 15 based upon the position that you're holding? 16 Like the ops lieutenant doesn't - like that 17 position doesn't 18 MR. : I mean we don't supervise 19 lieutenants. No lieutenant supervises 20 lieutenants. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : That's - we have a 23 supervisor. 24 MR. : No-no-no. And again, 25 these are questions just for us to try to EFTA00062855

208 1 understand how the operation works here. 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : And it again, not placing 4 blame on you whatsoever. It's just trying to 5 figure out how is it supposed to work? If 6 they're saying it's you, are you supposed to do 7 something with that information? 8 MR. : I mean but the thing is they 9 followed-up up until that time. 10 MR. : What do you mean? 11 MR. : He had a bunkie up until that 12 time. 13 MR. : Right. So they put it 14 out. He had a bunkie. 15 MR. : Right. 16 MR. : And then he didn't. And 17 that's what we're trying to figure out. 18 MR. : And then (Indiscernible 19 *02:38:39). 20 MR. : Who - where was the 21 communication breakdown? Who should have at 22 that time taken action to make sure he had a 23 bunkie? 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. : And that's the whole EFTA00062856

209 1 thing we're looking into. Who should have made 2 sure Epstein -? Once was removed and 3 people were notified that he was removed. Who 4 should have taken action? 5 MR. : yeah. 6 MR. : And who in your opinion 7 should have? 8 MR. : I don't know man that's a 9 tough one. Yeah. 10 MR. : But like even position 11 wise. Not to name names. What position should 12 have taken action? 13 MR. : Mm. I'm not sure. I'm not 14 sure with that one there. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : I just - that just -. The 17 guy left and I mean, you know. 18 MR. : Now I'm just handing you 19 back this lieutenant log. 20 MR. Mm-hm. 21 MR. : You know a few pages 22 back. But um did you - were you involved with 23 that lieutenant's log? Did you make any 24 entries on that lieutenant log on August 9th? 25 MR. : I'm not sure. EFTA00062857

210 1 MR. : Yeah. Are you able to 2 tell by looking at it? Like is that something 3 you can tell who made entries? Or is it anyone 4 can make an entry? 5 MR. : I mean we all can make an 6 entry. 7 MR. : Does it show like 8 initials or anything like that after an entry 9 was made? Does it show who made what entry? 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : No? Does it show 12 anything with regard to on that 13 lieutenant's log? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : What does it say? 16 MR. to pre-remove. 17 MR. : And what does that mean? 18 MR. : Pre-trial remove. 19 MR. : Does that mean that he's 20 leaving and he's not coming back? 21 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 22 MR. : What time does it say 23 that? 24 MR. : Or -. Yeah. Or -. Yeah. It 25 depends. 8:38. EFTA00062858

211 1 MR. : So 8:38. Does that mean 2 at 8:38 pretrial to remove? Does that mean 3 that they knew at 8:38 that he wasn't coming 4 back? 5 MR. : Not necessarily. 6 MR. : What does it mean? 7 MR. : It means that's when they put 8 the information in. 9 MR. : But I'm saying like what 10 the information says. Is that what normally 11 that people are going to court - what it says 12 for them - if they're coming back? 13 MR. : Mm. No. Normally they say 14 it's taken off the count. Pretrial is removed. 15 So he was taken off the count from 7:00 to 6:00 16 he was taken off the count. 17 MR. : Are people that go to 18 court always taken off the count? 19 MR. Mm. No. 20 MR. : So by looking at that, 21 that tells you that he was already WAS? 22 MR. Mm. I mean if they go to 23 Brooklyn, sometimes they take them off or a 24 different court. But this one here, I would 25 say yeah, taken off the count. And again I'm EFTA00062859

212 1 not sure. I see pre-remove proof. Pre-remove. 2 MR. : But by saying pre-remove, 3 does that mean it's more likely that he's -- 4 MR. HE's taken off the count. 5 MR. : -- not coming back? 6 MR. : Uh. Yeah. 7 MR. : And who would have made 8 that entry? 9 MR. Mm. I'm not sure. 10 MR. : Do you know if you made 11 that entry? 12 MR. : I'm not sure. 13 MR. : And there's no way to 14 tell? 15 MR. : Mm. 16 MR. : So I guess the question 17 is at approximately 8:30 , did we already know 18 as the BOP - did we already know hey, this 19 guy's probably not coming back? 20 MR. : Um. I'm not sure. 21 MR. : What does it show if he was 22 coming back? 23 MR. : That's why I say 8:00. 24 MR. : No-no-no. What would show? 25 MR. : If he was coming back? EFTA00062860

213 1 MR. : You said that's it's pre- 2 remove. 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : If he was coming back, what 5 would it show? Would it say pre-remove or 6 would it say something else? 7 MR. : See that's the thing is -. I 8 mean. 9 MR. : Like not that he was 10 coming back. Like if he's just going to court, 11 and you don't know if he's coming back or not. 12 If he's going to court. 13 MR. : Mm-hm. 14 MR. : And he's not WAS. Would 15 it say that? 16 MR. : No. 17 MR. : So it would only say that 18 if they thought he wasn't coming back? 19 MR. : Mm. Yeah. Probably. 20 MR. : All right. So then it 21 looks like from looking at that. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : At - by 8:38, we knew he 24 was probably not coming back? 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062861

214 1 MR. : All right. And with that 2 knowledge, should have any action - or should 3 have any notification at least been made of 4 hey, Epstein's cellmate is likely not coming 5 back. We need to start thinking about a new 6 cellmate. For the people that knew. 7 MR. : I'm not sure. You know. The 8 thing is this is when it was -. See our log is 9 not -. I could go in and see what time someone 10 left and input it. 11 MR. : Mm-hm. 12 MR. : That's what we do. At the 13 end of the shift. 14 MR. : So at 4:00 p.m. this 15 could have been updated is what you're saying? 16 Not at 8:30? 17 MR. Uh probably like 3:00 around 18 there. Yeah. It's not the only one. 19 MR. : Yeah. I'm not saying 20 specifically, I'm just saying like later in the 21 day. 22 MR. : It's not an ongoing thing. 23 MR. : It could have been -. So 24 But does that But do you wouldn't put 25 8:38 - this is when that happened - if at 8:38 EFTA00062862

215 1 you dint' know that. Would you? 2 MR. : Well if I don't check it, I 3 wouldn't know it. 4 MR. : Right. I'm not saying 5 you specifically. 6 MR. : No I mean anybody. If I go 7 on the computer and it has a time. And it says 8 these are the people that left. That's what 9 I'm going off of. 10 MR. : So -. 11 MR. : If I don't check it at 8:38 12 or - I won't know. 13 MR. : So when I say "you" 14 though I'm talking about BOP. So what I'm 15 saying is like the person who entered that. 16 They're entering it as if at 8:38 it was known 17 that he was likely not coming back. Is that 18 correct? 19 MR. : It was known to BOP. 20 MR. : Right. 21 MR. : Yeah. 22 MR. : Yeah. I'm not saying 23 "you" I'm saying -. 24 MR. : BOP. There's no officers 25 would yeah. EFTA00062863

216 1 MR. : Yeah. And who likely 2 would have entered that? Like who has access 3 to enter that? Control and lieutenants. Who 4 else? 5 MR. Mm. I think that's about it. 6 MR. : All right. So at that 7 time, it would have been either you, , or 8 control. Correct? 9 MR. Mm. I'm not sure. 10 MR. : But I'm just saying like 11 it's - you're the only two lieutenants on. And 12 then control. Right? 13 MR. : Again, I'm not sure. 14 MR. : And this is all just - I 15 didn't even realize this until we're now 16 reviewing it. So this isn't a - I promise you 17 this isn't like a setup. This is just trying 18 of figure out. 19 MR. : I'm not sure. Because what 20 if - what if I say hey, I didn't do the log. 21 Or what if hey, you forgot the log. You have 22 to do this. 23 MR. : What do you mean? 24 MR. : If you get an emergency. 25 MR. : Yeah-yeah. EFTA00062864

217 1 MR. : Hey listen, relieve me 2 MR. : Yeah-yeah. 3 MR. : I ain't touch the log. All 4 right. Whatever. I got you. 5 MR. : Right-right. So you 6 don't - so what you're just saying is you don't 7 know if it was -- 8 MR. : I don't know. 9 MR. : -- you, 10 MR. : I don't know. 11 MR. : -- or control? 12 MR. : I don't know who did it. 13 MR. : All right. Because I 14 mean like I know like I'm pretty sure 15 knew he was going but he didn't know he wasn't 16 coming back. Is that correct? 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : So that's - I think 19 that's what you're 20 MR. : Yeah. But the thing about it 21 with this is if I relieve you and you didn't do 22 nothing. Hey, you know, look out for me. I 23 got you next time. Okay. So just because it's 24 on day watch don't mean day watch staff did it. 25 MR. : So that -. EFTA00062865

218 1 MR. : You know what I'm saying. 2 MR. : So that could have been 3 filled out by someone other than that was even 4 present at 8:38? 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : How would they know? 7 MR. : They got a computer. 8 MR. : What would they see at 9 the computer? 10 MR. : It's on Sentry. 11 MR. : So on Sentry it would say 12 if he was WAB or not? 13 MR. : All movement for the day. 14 MR. : Would that -? 15 MR. : All the movement. 16 MR. : And would that be 17 maintained for a long period of time? Or is 18 that constantly refreshed? 19 MR. : It refreshed until midnight. 20 MR. : And then you - at this 21 point in time would we be able to go back and 22 see what did it say? 23 MR. : I could come in at 10:00 or 24 11:00 at night and do a whole 24 hours of 25 movement. EFTA00062866

219 1 MR. : All right. So you don't 2 know. 3 MR. : I don't know who did this. 4 Was it day watch or what? 5 MR. : And there's no way to 6 tell by looking at it? 7 MR. : No. 8 MR. : Is there in Sentry any 9 way to tell who entered it? 10 MR. : We don't do the Sentry. We 11 just take the information off of Sentry. 12 MR. : Oh. Well who would have 13 put it in Sentry? 14 MR. : R&D. 15 MR. : Okay. So R&D could have 16 put it in Sentry and then whomever - either one 17 of the lieutenants or control would have typed 18 it in? 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Or yeah somebody. 22 MR. : All right. So with this 23 information at 8:38, would it have been - if at 24 8:38 we knew that -? And when I say "we" - BOP 25 or whomever - R&D. control - knew that he was EFTA00062867

220 1 going and likely not coming back. Who should 2 have started making those notifications that 3 Epstein was without a cellmate? Is that SHU 4 staff? Is it lieutenants? 5 MR. : You said they known at this 6 time? 7 MR. : Yeah. So at 8:38, he's 8 going WAB. He leaves with a brown paper bag 9 and he' got stuff with him. He knows he's not 10 coming back. is saying I'm out. I'm not 11 coming back. 12 MR. : Mm-hm. 13 MR. : Who should have at that 14 point should have it been the SHU staff that 15 started making notifications? Hey, we know 16 Epstein's cellmate is gone. We need to start 17 making some rounds. Is that you know the ops 18 or the activities' lieutenant should have said 19 hey, he's gone. We've got to notify the 20 captain. 21 MR. : I mean the thing of it is. 22 MR. : Like who should have -? 23 MR. : I don't even know who the 24 dude is. 25 MR. : Right. EFTA00062868

221 1 MR. : So for one, a regular staff 2 wouldn't even know who bunkie is. 3 MR. : And that's where my 4 question. Should SHU have started saying like 5 this is - hey ops and activities' lieutenant. 6 This guy is Epstein's cellmate. We need 7 to start thinking about putting a cellmate and 8 getting a new cellmate assigned. 9 MR. : That's again if they 10 definitely knew he wasn't coming back. Just 11 because this - like you can get a pre-remove 12 MR. : And is that why -? 13 MR. : And then at 4:50 you get pre- 14 remove to such-and-such. 15 MR. : Okay. So is that why 16 memo that said, "possibly not coming 17 back and will likely need a new cellmate." Is 18 that why that's the appropriate response? 19 MR. : Possibly. Probably. Because 20 you never could tell. 21 MR. : And is that why you're 22 saying that they would have written possibly 23 because at this point it looks like it's 24 likely, but it's not definite. 25 MR. : Yeah. I could see him EFTA00062869

222 1 could see that happening because like you said, 2 this happens all the time. 3 MR. : All right. Because again 4 it says that inmate was going WAB and 5 possibly may not return. Also that inmate 6 Epstein will be needing a cellmate upon arrival 7 from his attorney visit. So looks like they 8 knew - SHU. Should have told you - 9 activities' lieutenant - or - ops 10 lieutenant? 11 MR. : I mean. 12 MR. : I'm not saying that he 13 did or that you know. You already said you 14 dint'. 15 MR. : I'm not even saying that he 16 should have. 17 MR. : oh. 18 MR. : I don't know. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : If he was notified, and he 21 said it could be. Again I told you 8:00. 22 That's (Indiscernible *02:49:44) guys come in 23 all the time from court. 24 MR. : Yeah-yeah. But I'm just 25 saying with the fact that Epstein - everybody EFTA00062870

223 1 knows he needs a cellmate. Should have they 2 notified up the chain of command at this point? 3 MR. : What if he came back at 8:00? 4 MR. : But what I'm saying is 5 like the fact that they know it's possible and 6 likely. Should have they started making 7 notifications being that you were the ops 8 lieutenant for a long time. You were a 9 lieutenant now it seems for a number of years. 10 In your expert opinion as a lieutenant -- 11 MR. : Mm-hm. 12 MR. : Should these guys have 13 started making some notifications? 14 MR. Mm. That's hard to say. 15 Because if you pass on this information, 16 possibly the guy shows up at 8:00. What 17 notification I need to make? 18 MR. : Okay. So you were the 19 activities' lieutenant and was the 20 activities' lieutenant when that thing says 21 8:38. Do you believe -- 22 MR. : He said that um -. 23 MR. : -- as that person who was 24 you know the ops and the activities' lieutenant 25 - those two people. Do you believe at that EFTA00062871

224 1 time that these notifications should have been 2 made to you? Would have you - do you believe 3 you should have been made aware? 4 MR. : At 8:30? 5 MR. : Or any time between 8:30 6 and I guess 1:50. During your shift. If your 7 shift ended at 2:00 or 4:00. We don't know. 8 MR. : I'm not sure because this - 9 you see pre-removal all the time. They come 10 back. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : That's why I could see him 13 saying hey, this guy might not come back. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : But it's a possibility he 16 can. 17 MR. : So then -. 18 MR. : So to make notifications -. 19 MR. : If he did it this way 20 If told the oncoming staff this is 21 what's up, do you think he took appropriate 22 action? 23 MR. : Who? 24 MR. 25 -- . If he in fact EFTA00062872

225 1 MR. : By passing it on? 2 MR. : -- passed on that 3 information saying hey guys, you know he's 4 saying he said it's the day of and 5 . Right as he's gone, that's Epstein's 6 cellmate. He's going to - like if he doesn't 7 come back, definitely he's going to need a 8 cellmate. 9 MR. : He said that to who you 10 saying? 11 MR. : Well this is what the 12 memo says. It says that - again, "On Friday, 13 August 9, 2019, at approximately 1:50 p.m., I 14 ( ) passed on to oncoming staff member 15 Officer and present shift staff - 16 and Officer - that inmate was 17 going WAB and possibly may not return. Also 18 that inmate Epstein will be needing a cellmate 19 upon arrival from his attorney visit." 20 MR. : Okay. So and 21 was on day watch? 22 MR. : Uh I don't know. It 23 sounds like what he says is that he told 24 MR. -: 25 MR. : And these guys were also EFTA00062873

226 1 present. 2 MR. : So in my expert option, at 3 that time, he did the right thing. 4 MR. : All right. So by this, 5 he shouldn't have passed it up to the ops and 6 activities' lieutenant. He should have kept it 7 in-house until it was definite. 8 MR. : It's premature. Yeah. 9 MR. : Okay. Because that would 10 have been premature prior to this time. 11 MR. : Yeah. Because like I said 12 that time. If he came back, then oh. I 13 thought you said we need to know to change him 14 out or we start - yeah. 15 MR. : And even keeping in mind 16 that both , or however you pronounce 17 his name. 18 MR. : Well after that I don't think 19 he was bunked with him after that. 20 MR. : Him and -. No-no-no. 21 What I'm saying is both of his previous inmates 22 - Epstein I'm saying - and 23 they were both vetted from the highest of 24 levels. Even with that knowledge, you think 25 that they should have still waited. EFTA00062874

227 1 MR. : I mean I don't under -. 2 MR. : They were vetted by the 3 captain, the warden, and the regional director. 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : So obviously it took some 6 doing. 7 MR. Mm-hm. But didn't get -. 8 MR. : With that knowledge, do 9 you think that they should have told you? Or 10 no you still think it's premature. 11 MR. : At 1:5O? Um. 12 MR. : Well I mean not at 1:5O. 13 MR. : I mean I don't know. 14 MR. : It looks like 8:38. 15 MR. : Then again, I told you about 16 that. If I don't check for it, I don't know -. 17 MR. : no-no-no. I'm not saying 18 I'm not saying you checking for him. You 19 already -. 20 MR. : No. I'm talking about 21 anybody. 22 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. But what 23 I'm saying like it appears that in looking at 24 that, it appears that they knew he was WAB 25 since 8:38, right? EFTA00062875

228 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : So I'm saying between 3 8:38 and whatever the end of your shift is 4 MR. : No one said nothing to us. 5 MR. : -- do you believe someone 6 should have said something to you? 7 MR. : I'm not sure. Because then 8 again, you could look at another log where 9 it'll say from pre-remove to ZA. You 10 understand? 11 MR. : Right. Because he didn't 12 actually -. 13 MR. : So that's why I could see him 14 saying well I'm letting y'all know. I'm 15 passing on to you and you because you're going 16 to be here. Possibly. 17 MR. : Yeah. 18 MR. : I'm giving you the heads up. 19 MR. : So I guess -. And I 20 understood you answered that question. But 21 what I said was - considering the fact that it 22 takes at least almost an entire day to vet who 23 was even going to be placed with him, do you 24 think that they should have started moving this 25 up the chain of command knowing that this guy - EFTA00062876

229 1 no inmate - just a regular inmate shouldn't be 2 placed with this guy. He needs to be vetted. 3 It's vetted all the way up to the regional 4 director's level. 5 MR. : Yeah. I'm not sure on that 6 one. 7 MR. : Yeah sure. Yeah. All 8 right. Not sure. So is there anything else if 9 it says with ? Does it say when he was 10 actually -- 11 MR. : It just says 8:38 pre- 12 removed. That means taken off the count. Now 13 if he comes back, it will say pre-removed to 14 ZA. And it kind of changes. 15 MR. : So because it says pre- 16 removed, there's no reason to note when they 17 were definitively told he wasn't coming back? 18 MR. : Yeah. This just means he 19 went to court. Right? So you have three going 20 out. Meaning you're off on count. 21 MR. : Mm-hm. 22 MR. : It could be in the Eastern 23 District - whatever. If you do come back, they 24 put you back on. 25 MR. : But only if you come EFTA00062877

230 1 back. Otherwise, they won't name you again. 2 MR. : So this isn't definite. 3 MR. : It's indefinite? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : All right. 6 MR. : I mean no this is not 7 definite. That means he's possibly - he could 8 come back. Just because it says pre-removed, 9 he'll come back. 10 MR. : But what I'm saying is 11 the fact that he didn't come back. Should have 12 there been another note saying he is now 13 definitely off of our books. 14 MR. : No. You just don't see it on 15 the - you just don't see it. 16 MR. : So just by him not being 17 back on it that just means hey, refer back -. 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : Hey, refer back to that 20 thing where it said that he was possibly not 21 coming back. 22 MR. : Yep. 23 MR. : There should not be any 24 more notes saying like he's gone. 25 MR. : No. Only think because if EFTA00062878

231 1 I'm evening watch, the only think I'm checking 2 for is the pre-removed to the institution. So 3 these three, hey did they come back today or 4 are they off the count? So there wouldn't be 5 no follow up. 6 MR. : SO there's no additional 7 -? There should have -. There's not another 8 line item that shouldn't be in there saying 9 that wasn't one of the individuals that 10 came back. 11 MR. : No because - because no. 12 MR. : So there's a pre-removed 13 but there's no line for removed. 14 MR. : No. Pre-removed means off the 15 count. He's out the building. Now if he comes 16 back -- 17 MR. : -- and you -? 18 MR. you just put him back in. 19 MR. : Okay. So that's the only 20 notification that should be made - should have 21 been made on the lieutenant's log? 22 MR. : Yeah. This one here? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. : All right. And do you EFTA00062879

232 1 2 3 4 mind just putting it like you did that last one. Just a little star next to is. MR. I've just got a question real quick. 5 MR. : Yes, please do. 6 7 MR. right? This the 4:00 p.m. count, 8 MR. Mm-hm. 9 10 MR. over here. This outcount that you see 11 MR. : For ZD? 12 MR. : For ZA sorry. 13 MR. : ZA? 14 MR. ZA. See that one? Is that 15 one? Who is that one for? Is that for 16 MR. : Outcount. 17 MR. : Who normally gets marked off? 18 On the El that's outcount? 19 MR. : Well. 20 MR. : It means that he's still in 21 22 the facility? facility? Or the inmates had - leave the 23 MR. : You never usually see an 24 outcount for that one though. I don't know 25 what assignment this is. EFTA00062880

233 1 MR. : Say that again. 2 MR. : I'm not sure what assignment 3 this is. 4 MR. : You don't know what account? 5 Okay. 6 MR. : Uh. It could have been some 7 type of -. 8 MR. : I was just trying to figure 9 out if they were still counting him as hey, 10 there's a possibility of him coming back. 11 They've left him as outcount. And eventually, 12 after evening they removed him from outcount. 13 MR. : No. So the outcount - oh I 14 know what you're saying now. You're trying to 15 say you mean who is the one that they have at 16 attorney conference. 17 MR. : See attorney conference we 18 know. That's -. 19 MR. Yeah. That's the same thing. 20 MR. : That's the same thing? 21 MR. : Yeah. All the numbers is 22 repeats for the outcounts. 23 MR. : So you hear what he's 24 saying? 25 MR. : Yeah. Okay. EFTA00062881

234 1 MR. : Ten, one, two. That 2 equals 13. One, one. Three plus one plus 13 3 plus two equals 19. 4 MR. : Got it. So at this point, 5 is completely off the count. 6 MR. : Yeah. 4:00. Yeah. He was 7 off at this time. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : But the thing is he could 10 come back. 11 MR. : Got it. 12 MR. : That's why I'm saying that 13 I know you're saying that hey, should he have. 14 I can't say that. 15 MR. : So you're not like upset 16 at the fact that like he didn't notify you and 17 then you could have notified the captain. You 18 don't think that that would have been what he 19 should have done? 20 MR. : I mean yeah, that's 21 definitely helpful. And it would have been 22 appreciated. But to say that you know he's in 23 the wrong for not doing it and stuff like that. 24 I can't say that. 25 MR. : Okay. And he didn't EFTA00062882

235 1 notify you? 2 MR. : No. Not that I recall. 3 MR. : Okay. All right. So 4 we're going to move on from that. You can give 5 that back or you can hold onto it. Whatever 6 you want to do. Do you know about any cameras 7 in the MCC SHU that were not working on August 8 9th or 10th? 9 MR. : No. That they wasn't 10 working? 11 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 12 MR. : No. 13 MR. : Have you - did you ever - 14 were you made aware of that after August 9th? 15 Any cameras were not working? 16 MR. : I heard something about when 17 they was like checking videos and stuff. 18 MR. : What did you hear about 19 it? 20 MR. : That some of them was showing 21 grainy. 22 MR. : And who would have been 23 responsible for making sure the cameras were 24 working? 25 MR. : Mm. The facilities. EFTA00062883

236 1 MR. : Who from facilities 2 should we speak with? 3 MR. : I'm not sure. 4 MR. : Who worked in facilities? 5 MR. : Whoever they manager is. 6 Facilities manager. 7 MR. : Do you know who that 8 person was back in August? 9 MR. '19. 10 MR. : Or does Dan -? 11 MR. : It probably was vacant. 12 MR. : Vacant. Was there a 13 14 MR. , he was there. 15 MR. : Did he send - was he a 16 supervisor? 17 MR. : He's not a supervisor. 18 MR. : No? 19 MR. : He's a com tech though. He's 20 com tech. 21 MR. : Would he be somebody that 22 would be good to speak with on that? 23 MR. : Yeah. Probably. 24 MR. : All right. Were you 25 aware though that prior to that time that they EFTA00062884

237 1 weren't working? 2 MR. : The cameras? No. 3 MR. : No? Okay. Who is BOP 4 employee 5 MR. : I know him. 6 MR. : Do you know what his 7 position was in August of 2019? 8 MR. : He would have been manager. 9 MR. : What does that role 10 entail? What is - his duties and 11 responsibilities? 12 MR. : He's a supervisor of a unit 13 team. 14 MR. : What unit team at the 15 time? Do you know? 16 MR. : I'm not sure. 17 MR. : Did you have any 18 communication with regard to Epstein with 19 20 MR. : Like what? 21 MR. : Just with him being 22 housed within the SHU. 23 MR. : I probably talked to him 24 about something but I don't recall nothing 25 specific. EFTA00062885

238 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : No communication like that. 3 I don't know. 4 MR. : Did you ever provide him 5 with any kind of special instructions with 6 regard to Epstein? 7 MR. : Not that I recall. 8 MR. : No? What about -? Did 9 you ever communicate with regarding 10 rounds being conducted in the SHU or Epstein 11 needing a cellmate? 12 MR. : Not that I recall. 13 MR. : Are you aware that 14 allowed Epstein to make a telephone 15 call on the evening of August 9, 2019? 16 MR. : Mm. I think I heard 17 something about that. I don't know was it 18 though. 19 MR. : No? 20 MR. : I just heard something. I 21 think he made a phone call though. 22 MR. : All right. So do you 23 know anything about involved with that 24 phone call? 25 MR. : No. EFTA00062886

239 1 MR. : All right. What is your 2 understanding of the phone call that took place 3 on August 9th with Epstein's telephone call? 4 MR. : It was a regular phone call. 5 MR. : Did you hear that it was 6 made in the shower area? 7 MR. No. 8 MR. : Have you ever heard of 9 telephone calls being made in the shower area? 10 MR. : In the shower area? Yeah. 11 MR. : And what's the purpose of 12 that? 13 MR. : The cord can't reach. And 14 I'll say we got him out taking a shower - hey 15 I'm going to give you a phone right now while 16 I'm - while you're right there. I don't have 17 to pull you out and it's like a time consuming 18 method. 19 MR. : Do you know if the line 20 that they would be using in that area would be 21 recorded line or a legal line? 22 MR. : It's two. There's two. 23 MR. : Okay. So would there be 24 any reason to provide someone with a legal line 25 that's not recorded? EFTA00062887

240 1 MR. : No. 2 MR. : So -. 3 MR. : Would there a be a reason? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : No. 6 MR. : So why if they provided 7 Epstein a phone call in the shower area for a 8 legal line, would that be wrong? 9 MR. : You mean an unmonitored line? 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : If they gave him an 12 unmonitored line? 13 MR. : Right. 14 MR. : Yeah. Unless you didn't know 15 which one it is. 16 MR. : And if they did know that 17 they gave him a legal line, that was an 18 unmonitored line, should someone have monitored 19 that call? 20 MR. : You can't though. You said 21 it was unmonitored. 22 MR. : No I mean like sit here 23 and listen to the call. 24 MR. : Oh you mean like - I mean 25 they do that all the time. I think they could EFTA00062888

241 1 you know they let them call their legal 2 attorneys. And yeah, they do that. 3 MR. : Okay. And if they didn't 4 do that. 5 MR. : I don't know if it's a 6 violation. 7 MR. : Right. 8 MR. : But it's not common. 9 MR. : Yeah. So let's say if 10 the captain even authorized it. Yeah, give him 11 his phone call. Just make sure you monitor it 12 and log it. 13 MR. : No. 14 MR. : They didn't monitor it. 15 They didn't log it. Would that be a problem? 16 MR. : The captain telling me. 17 Yeah. 18 MR. : All right. Did you ever 19 hear of that practice taking place in the past? 20 MR. : Unmonitored calls? 21 MR. : Yeah. Or like letting 22 somebody in the SHU have a phone call on an 23 unmonitored line, walking away, letting that 24 person talk? 25 MR. : No. Now from an officer's EFTA00062889

242 1 standpoint? 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : No. 4 MR. : You never seen that 5 before? Or heard about it? 6 MR. : Officers. No. 7 MR. : Okay. What is the policy 8 for inmates making a calls from the SHU? 9 MR. Mm. I do know they could get 10 - they got to come - there's a (Indiscernible 11 *03:04:12) in SHU that everyone has a line. A 12 compassionate phone line. And they get with 13 the chaplain they can make a phone call. Like 14 say that they might you only get one call every 15 30 days. So chaplain say hey, give this guy a 16 call. They come up. They bring him. They let 17 him use the compassionate phone. 18 MR. : And when you say -. 19 MR. : And that's about it. 20 MR. : What's a compassionate 21 phone? 22 MR. : Yeah. It's like something 23 they have a death in the family or something 24 like that. 25 MR. : But is that a monitored EFTA00062890

243 1 call? 2 MR. : I don't think so. But I mean 3 staff would stay with him. It's monitored 4 yeah. It's monitored. 5 MR. : So anybody in the staff. 6 It's either a monitored line or staff is with 7 them? Is that correct? 8 MR. : If it's monitored in the SHU? 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : So when I say monitored, 12 I mean it's either a recorded line -. 13 MR. : Or you right there. 14 MR. : -- or you're right there. 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : And what are the reasons 17 why you would give him an unrecorded line? Or 18 a non-recorded line? 19 MR. Mm. I mean probably like an 20 emergency or something. 21 MR. : So for him -? 22 MR. : Definitely yeah. So like the 23 chaplain ain't the hey, you know, okay. 24 MR. : But if it was in the 25 shower area, they would actually have the EFTA00062891

244 1 ability to do either a recorded line or a non- 2 recorded line? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : They're right next to 5 each other? 6 MR. : It's a jack. Yeah. 7 MR. : Yeah. Okay. What about 8 - what's the MCC policy on conducting searches 9 in the SHU? Cell searches. 10 MR. : You have to search the cell. 11 MR. : Do you know about them 12 not conducting cell searches? 13 MR. : Staff not conducting? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Like what? 16 MR. : Like for instance here's 17 cell search from 9 South or the SHU on August 18 9th. It's one cell search. It was conducted 19 at 12:36 p.m. during the day by It's 20 the only cell search that was conducted on 21 August 9th. 22 MR. : Hm. 23 MR. : Is that weird for you? 24 That you would see only one cell search 25 conducted on a day? EFTA00062892

245 1 MR. : Meh. 2 MR. : Are they supposed to 3 conduct more than one cell search? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : How many are they 6 supposed to conduct? 7 MR. : Five. 8 MR. : And is it at least five 9 on night watch? And during the day watch -? 10 MR. : Per shift. 11 MR. : What's that? 12 MR. : Per shift. 13 MR. : Per shift? Everyone's 14 supposed to do five? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : Is that including the 17 morning watch? 18 MR. : No. 19 MR. : So day watch and -? 20 MR. : Do area searches on morning 21 watch. 22 MR. : So your understanding is 23 that on day watch and on night watch it's 24 supposed to be five per shift? 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062893

246 1 MR. : And are you aware if they 2 weren't doing that? 3 MR. : Mm. 4 MR. : Or is this what you were 5 saying before? An abnormal day? 6 MR. : I mean I don't know. I 7 wasn't aware that they wasn't doing it. No. 8 MR. : Okay. Um and is there 9 any responsibility of the ops or activities' 10 lieutenant overseeing to make sure that these 11 cell searches are being conducted? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : There is? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : And what is that 16 responsibility? 17 MR. : I mean pretty much we check 18 every 30 days. They've got to be done. Every 19 cell supposed to eb searched every 30 days. So 20 -. 21 MR. : Every cell in there is 22 supposed to be searched every 30 days? 23 MR. : The whole unit yeah. 24 MR. : Okay. And that's where 25 the ops lieutenant and activities' lieutenant EFTA00062894

247 1 come in? 2 MR. : Any lieutenant. 3 MR. : Any lieutenant. 4 MR. : It's everybody's 5 responsibility. 6 MR. : So I guess what I'm 7 asking is on August 9th there's no SHU 8 lieutenant in there. As the activities' 9 lieutenant or the ops lieutenant on any of the 10 watches. Should have they been like making 11 sure that they were doing their job? 12 MR. Mm. I'm not sure. 13 MR. : You're not sure? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Because I mean that's in 16 TruScope. It's like you're not checking 17 TruScope at that time 18 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 19 MR. anyways. You know. 20 MR. : And during your rounds 21 MR. : And on top of that I think 22 the cells - the cameras probably show the cells 23 being checked. I'm quite sure. They just 24 didn't log them. 25 MR. : All right. So you think EFTA00062895

248 1 that they're actually searching them? 2 MR. : They got to. 3 MR. : And not locking it? 4 MR. : You got to hey, get out. 5 You're doing a feed and cuff up, showers, you 6 come out and yeah. So they not locked. 7 MR. : But would it be 8 surprising to you to hear that there was a lot 9 of extra linens and clothing and all that kind 10 of stuff in the SHU? 11 MR. : That's not surprising. 12 MR. : So if they're doing cell 13 searches, wouldn't they take that stuff out and 14 keep them with the -? 15 MR. : I suppose so. Yeah. 16 MR. : All right. But you 17 believe that they were actually conducting the 18 cell searches? 19 MR. : I'm quite sure. More than 20 one was conducted. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : SO you think it was just 24 - this is all they logged but they probably did 25 more? EFTA00062896

249 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. All right. Do you 3 know anything about Epstein being authorized to 4 have pills in his cell in the SHU? 5 MR. : Pillows? 6 MR. : No. Pills. 7 MR. : Nah. 8 MR. : Pills. Like medication. 9 MR. : Nah. 10 MR. : Should have he been 11 allowed medication in his cell? 12 MR. : I mean inmates have 13 medication? 14 MR. : They do? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : So in the SHU they're 17 allowed to have medication? 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : Is there ever a problem 20 with like OD-ing or anything like that? 21 MR. : I mean if it's - depending on 22 the medication, medical gives it to them. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : Some have self-carrying 25 medicines. EFTA00062897

250 1 MR. : All right. And so that - 2 and that's not abnormal for them to have their 3 own pill bottles and things like that in the 4 SHU? 5 MR. : No. 6 MR. : What can an inmate have 7 in their cell in the SHU? 8 MR. : T-shirt, boxes, washcloth, a 9 towel, depending on what season too. Blankets, 10 two sheets. 11 MR. : So they can have tow 12 blankets and two sheets? 13 MR. : Depending on the weather. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : And how much is available. 16 MR. : What about in August? 17 How many blankets and sheets could have they 18 had? 19 MR. : How many they could have? 20 MR. : Or are they allowed to 21 have? 22 MR. : Uh. It depends. Some of 23 them -. It depends. It they say hey, let them 24 keep it, two and two, let them keep it. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00062898

251 1 MR. : I say hey, you need to - you 2 know. They go down to one. 3 MR. : Would it be ever 4 authorized to have more than two of each? 5 MR. : How many? Like an extra 6 blanket or something? 7 MR. : Yeah. Like if three 8 blankets or four blankets. 9 MR. : I don't know about four, but 10 an extra blanket I heard that especially in the 11 wintertime depending on the cells. 12 MR. : What about in August? 13 MR. : An extra blanket? 14 MR. : Or extra linens. 15 MR. : Nah. 16 MR. : Yeah. What about extra 17 clothing? 18 MR. : I mean it wouldn't be 19 authorized but they could get it. 20 MR. : How could they get it? 21 MR. : They could get it. They 22 could fish it themselves - inmates. 23 MR. : You mean they can like 24 throw a cord over over like the -? 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062899

252 1 MR. : They do that? 2 MR. : Yeah. They fish. 3 MR. : All right. And would 4 that be caught on the cell search if they were 5 being conducted though? 6 MR. : Not all the time. 7 MR. : No? 8 MR. : No. 9 MR. : And how would they miss 10 that? 11 MR. : What if I don't search that 12 cell today? 13 MR. : No I'm saying during the 14 cell searches. Like if they search their cell. 15 MR. : If they see the fishing line? 16 Yeah. 17 MR. : No-no-no. Not if they 18 see a fishing line. But if a cell is being 19 searched -- 20 MR. : And it has excessive linen? 21 MR. : And it has - would they 22 take it at that point? 23 MR. : Yeah. Usually they take it. 24 Yeah. 25 MR. : Okay. Anything else EFTA00062900

253 1 they're allowed to have? 2 MR. : Books. Food. Yeah. 3 MR. : All right. Do you know 4 if Epstein was given any special privileges to 5 have extra clothing or extra linens? 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. : No? Do you know if he 8 had extra clothing or extra linens? 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : Who was making sure that 11 Epstein had the correct amount of clothing and 12 linens? 13 MR. : Not sure. 14 MR. : Would it be like the SHU 15 staff or the lieutenant or all of the above? 16 The SHU lieutenant? 17 MR. : I'm not sure. 18 MR. : Working in the SHU 19 though, or previously, you don't know who would 20 -? 21 MR. : Who is monitoring it? I 22 mean. 23 MR. : Like who would be - who's 24 responsible? Not let - sounds like - looks 25 like no one was monitoring it but who was EFTA00062901

254 1 actually responsible to make sure him and these 2 guys aren't supposed to have that many - that 3 much clothing or linen. 4 MR. : I'm not sure. Because when 5 we used to do linen, you give me three, I give 6 you three. That's how we used to monitor it. 7 MR. : Yes. It's supposed to be 8 like a one-for-one exchange. 9 MR. : Yeah. So I don't know who's 10 responsible to keep an eye on his things 11 though. I uh 12 MR. : Typically who provides 13 inmates with their linens? 14 MR. : Staff. 15 MR. : Do lieutenants ever do 16 that? 17 MR. : No. Not really. 18 MR. : So it would be the staff 19 that's responsible then huh? 20 MR. : Yeah. That's why I say 21 (Indiscernible *03:12:15) responsibility I 22 guess then. 23 MR. : Okay. Does the SHU 24 lieutenant ever do it? 25 MR. : I mean, it could. I could if EFTA00062902

255 1 I want to. 2 MR. : Yeah. But typically it 3 would be the SHU staff? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Okay. Any idea how 6 Epstein's interactions were with other inmates? 7 Did he ever have interactions with other 8 inmates really? 9 MR. : I don't know. I know when he 10 first got there, he told me some guy he was 11 nervous because his face was on the TV. And 12 guys might be trying to intimidate him. That's 13 about it though. 14 MR. : That was something he - 15 Epstein specifically told you? 16 MR. : He told the officer and then 17 the officer told me. He said, hey I didn't 18 know who he was. I was like alright. Let me 19 look into it. And then they moved him. 20 MR. : Where was he? 21 MR. : He was on - his first unit I 22 think was 11 North. 23 MR. : So was he then in general 24 population? 25 MR. : When he first came here, he EFTA00062903

256 1 was general population. 2 MR. : All right. So people 3 that tell us that he was in the SHU the entire 4 time are incorrect? 5 MR. : When he first got through, he 6 was in general population. 7 MR. : And for how long was he 8 in general population? 9 MR. : Say about a day or two. 10 MR. : And are you the one that 11 actually moved him into the SHU? 12 MR. : No. 13 MR. : Who did that? 14 MR. : I don't know. 15 MR. : All right. But an 16 officer reported it to you? And then you -? 17 MR. : Yeah. I know he was in 18 general population. 19 MR. : And what did you do with 20 the information when that was told? 21 MR. : What? 22 MR. : You said an officer said 23 he's worried about safety. 24 MR. : Yeah. I spoke to him. 25 MR. : You spoke to Epstein? EFTA00062904

257 1 MR. : I wanted to know I said 2 what's going on. I said alright, we going to 3 look into this. And then they moved him. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : But I guess my question 7 was did you report that information to someone? 8 And then it was - a person? 9 MR. : I don't remember. I know I 10 passed it on. I said hey, this guy, I think 11 he's high profile. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Look into it I think by the 14 captain or someone got together and they moved 15 him. Put him in place in the SHU. 16 MR. : Okay. And when was the 17 last time you interacted with Epstein? 18 MR. : I can't recall. 19 MR. : Did you have any 20 interactions with him on August 9th? 21 MR. : I could have. I don't know. 22 He's right there on the floor. So I could 23 have. 24 MR. : But you don't know. So 25 again, dude dies the next day. You can't EFTA00062905

258 1 remember if the day before you talked with this 2 guy when it's like the biggest case ever? 3 MR. : yeah. 4 MR. : You don't remember? 5 MR. : Uh-huh. `Cause I brung him 6 up to SHU a few times. But I don't know if I 7 did that day. 8 MR. : I'm just saying that kind 9 of sparks a little suspicion if -- 10 MR. : I know what you're saying. 11 MR. : -- it's like - if it's 12 like you can't even remember the last - if you 13 talked to him on that day - the day before. 14 MR. : I mean it's a big case. I 15 get that. But I mean, you know, I have a job 16 like you know? 17 MR. : Yeah-yeah. I mean, I'm 18 just saying that that's going to create a 19 little -. 20 MR. : Yeah but I cannot remember if 21 I spoke to that dude that day. 22 MR. : Do you remember when was 23 the last time you saw him? 24 MR. : No. I'm probably assuming 25 that day. If he was in attorney conference. EFTA00062906

259 1 MR. : Um. And is that because 2 you would have visited attorney conference? 3 MR. : Yeah. The elevator is right 4 there. I'm on the third floor here. Attorney 5 conference is there. If I wait right here in 6 the elevator, I see him. He's in the same room 7 every day. 8 MR. : But you can't remember if 9 you actually spoke with him on that day? 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : Would you typically speak 12 with him when he was in attorney conference? 13 MR. : The only time I used to speak 14 to him is if they say hey, you can bring this. 15 Hey, you going to SHU? Can you take him up? 16 All right. Come on. 17 MR. : All right. 18 MR. : Can I ask a question on that? 19 MR. : Yes. Please do. 20 MR. : Just in case, I mean I know 21 you said you don't remember, but that's his 22 last day. That's the last time you saw him. 23 Do you remember who he was with that day? 24 MR. : His lawyers. 25 MR. : Do you remember his demeanor? EFTA00062907

260 1 MR. : Mm. 2 MR. : Was he upset? Was he 3 yelling? Did he complain about anything? 4 MR. : He used to sleep a lot. 5 That's all I know. Sometimes you see him in 6 there, he's just laying on the table. His 7 lawyer is right there. 8 MR. : While he's with his 9 attorneys? 10 MR. : He was there -. He used to 11 be there from 8 from in the morning time all 12 the way to day watch and evening watch. 13 MR. : Around what time would he 14 show up there? 15 MR. : Early. He'd be the first one 16 there. 17 MR. : And what time would that 18 be? 19 MR. : 8:00, 8:30. 20 MR. : And then what time would 21 he typically go back to the SHU? 22 MR. : Before - or attorney 23 conference over at 8:00. So about 8:00. 24 MR. : So basically 8:00 a.m. to 25 8:00 p.m.? And who were the people that would EFTA00062908

261 1 take him to attorney conference and then take 2 him back to the SHU? 3 MR. : I told you. Like I said, 4 I've done it sometimes. 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : But typically, hey get the 7 guy ready in SHU. Bring him down. If R&D's 8 out there, hey we got to move him. You know. 9 I'll take him down. 10 MR. : Mm-hm. 11 MR. : Whoever's going that way. 12 MR. : Did you take him either 13 there to attorney conference or back to the SHU 14 on August 9th? 15 MR. : I don't think so. I can't 16 recall. 17 MR. : Were you still at the MCC 18 at around 8:00 p.m. on August 9th? 19 MR. : No. I wasn't there at 8:00. 20 MR. : And what time do you 21 believe that you left MCC on August 9th? 22 MR. : Uh between 2:00 and 4:00. 23 MR. : Sometime between 2:00 and 24 4:00. 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062909

262 1 MR. : But you weren't back? So 2 he was in attorney conference all that time. 3 So the last time you possibly could have 4 interacted with him would have been around 8:00 5 a.m. Correct? 6 MR. : I mean interacting like 7 talking to him? 8 MR. : Speaking with him. 9 MR. : Yeah. But I don't think I 10 I can't recall if I spoke I don't think I 11 spoke to him. But -- 12 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 13 MR. : I'm not sure if I did or I 14 didn't. 15 MR. : Okay. But -. 16 MR. : The last time would have been 17 I mean -. Yeah. If I stepped into attorney 18 conference and said something. But 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : I don't recall that. 21 MR. : But you don't recall what 22 his demeanor was? Or state of mind? 23 MR. : That day? 24 MR. : Yeah. Um you just 25 mentioned the one thing where he was worried EFTA00062910

263 1 because his - you know -. 2 MR. : Yeah. The first day he got 3 here. 4 MR. : He told an officer. 5 MR. : He's saying hey, uh officer, 6 hey there's this guy up here. His face is 7 well we get those calls all the time. 8 MR. : Do you know of any other 9 complaints that he made? Did he ever complain 10 to you or you get any other information about 11 it? 12 MR. : While he was planning on 13 getting off of suicide watch. That's about it. 14 MR. : Okay. And was he making 15 those complaints to you about getting off of 16 suicide watch? 17 MR. : He was just saying hey, why 18 you guys got me like -. I'm like well you talk 19 to psych and then they'll talk to you and they 20 spoke to him and he went back up. 21 MR. : And what was this 22 complaint about? About being -? 23 MR. : He was saying why he was on 24 there yeah. He wanted his clothes and you 25 know. EFTA00062911

264 1 MR. : So he didn't want to be 2 on suicide watch? 3 MR. : No. 4 MR. : Is that what you're 5 saying? 6 MR. : No. He didn't want to. 7 MR. : So he wanted to go back 8 to the SHU? 9 MR. : Well he wanted to go -. 10 Yeah. 11 MR. : Do you know if he wanted 12 to be on the SHU? Or did he want to be in a 13 different area? 14 MR. : I don't know. 15 MR. : Did he ever tell that to 16 you? 17 MR. : No. Not to me. 18 MR. : Do you ever -? Do you 19 believe that he was in the correct place in the 20 SHU? Or do you believe he should have been on 21 like 10 South or G Tier? 22 MR. : I mean he can't be in G Tier. 23 Can't be in 10 South. He got to have a Bunkie, 24 right? 25 MR. : Well. I guess. It EFTA00062912

265 1 depends on -. Do you know what the reason why 2 he would need a Bunkie? 3 MR. : His suicide attempt. 4 Hotlist. 5 MR. : Do you ever put people 6 that are suicide attempts or hotlist in G Tier 7 or 10 South, so they have extra eyes on them? 8 MR. Mm. I don't think. No one 9 in 10 South is on the hotlist. I don't recall. 10 MR. : What about G Tier? 11 What's their -? Who? What's the deal with G 12 Tier? Like who goes 13 MR. : Single cells. 14 MR. : -- in there? 15 MR. : Single cells. 16 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. But they 17 have cameras in there, right? Every one of 18 them gets - just like 10 South - but -? 19 MR. : Yeah but uh 9 South some of 20 the - some cameras in some of those. Psych 21 cells. 22 MR. : Do you believe Epstein 23 should have been in a cell with a camera in it? 24 MR. : No. 25 MR. : No? EFTA00062913

266 1 MR. : I mean yeah, if you have to 2 have two. The ones with the cameras is single 3 cell. You can't go there. 4 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 5 MR. : You know? 6 MR. : So you believe he should 7 have had a cellmate and he should have been in 8 the regular SHU? Because we've had other 9 people say should have been on G tier. Should 10 have been on 10 South. But you believe 11 MR. : People are saying - I mean - 12 if you try to commit - like you just showed me 13 the memo. Right? So either he needs an extra 14 set of eyes on him and then the - that's even 15 worse. I'm going to put you in there by 16 yourself? You saying? For an extended time? 17 MR. : I guess but so people are 18 saying because officers are watching those 19 people at all times. Is that -? Are they 20 watching them at all times? 21 MR. : How? 22 MR. : On the cameras I don't 23 know. 24 MR. : No. 25 MR. : SO they're not actually EFTA00062914

267 1 being monitored? 2 MR. : They can't watch. No one can 3 watch someone all the time. No. 4 MR. : Okay. So you think that 5 it would have been just as risky or if not more 6 risky with him being in G Tier or 10 South? 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Okay. Fair enough. Do 9 you know why Epstein was in prison? 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : Why? 12 MR. : Uh underage trafficking. 13 Child molestation. Charges like that. 14 MR. : And did you have any 15 specific feelings regarding why he was in 16 prison? 17 MR. : No. 18 MR. : How often would you speak 19 with Epstein? 20 MR. : Uh whenever I needed to. 21 MR. : All right. Any kind of 22 conversation that had any substance to it? 23 Like a substantive conversation? Anything that 24 was like more than just like below? 25 MR. : Nah. EFTA00062915

268 1 MR. : No? and you said you did 2 not work at all on August 10th? 3 MR. 4 right? 5 MR. 6 MR. : That's the day it happened, : Yeah. : I wasn't there. 7 MR. : And then you were 8 definitely gone by then - from the MCC - by 9 4:00 p.m. on August 9th? 10 MR. : I think so yeah. I think so. 11 MR. : And you may have been 12 gone as early as 2:00 p.m. you just can't 13 recall? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : When was your next shift? 16 MR. : Mm. That happened on what - 17 Saturday? 18 MR. : Yeah. He was found on a 19 Saturday. 20 MR. : He died on Saturday, right? 21 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 22 MR. : Saturday. I don't know if I 23 came in Sunday. I think I came in Sunday. 24 MR. : Okay. And did you at 25 that time did you speak with anybody about EFTA00062916

269 1 Epstein's death? 2 MR. : I mean I knew about it. 3 Everyone was talking about it. 4 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. So what 5 was your understanding about how he died? 6 MR. : He hung himself. 7 MR. : Do you know anything 8 about anyone else taking his life? 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : No? Do you know anything 11 about anyone assisting with taking his life? 12 MR. : Nah. 13 MR. : No. Do you believe that 14 Epstein took his own life? 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. : Do you believe that 17 Epstein acted alone in taking his own life? 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : All right. Then there's 20 only three more questions here. They're more 21 open-ended. What do you believe would have 22 prevented Epstein from dying? 23 MR. : Nothing. 24 MR. : Nothing? Do you think 25 that if he was - wanted to take his life he EFTA00062917

270 1 would have done it? 2 MR. : If it was a regular inmate, I 3 don't even think we would be - you know. 4 MR. : Um what are some of the 5 systematic problems inside the MCC? And 6 specifically the SHU that allowed for Epstein 7 to die? 8 MR. Mm. Systematic problems. 9 MR. : You know like -. 10 MR. : It sound like a union 11 question or something like that. 12 MR. : Well no it because like I 13 told you, we're trying to look into like. Hey 14 man, you're right. 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : If another inmate died, 17 we're probably not going to be here talking to 18 you. But this is high-profile. We now need to 19 figure out what went wrong here. How do we fix 20 it? So in your opinion, what went wrong here? 21 MR. : I mean. 22 MR. : And how do we fix it? 23 We're from the government. We're here to help. 24 MR. : Yeah. My opinion, the whole 25 cellmate leaving. That's not on nobody. I'm EFTA00062918

271 1 not. If I have the notice he had up until that 2 time and left for one day. Then this happens. 3 I can't blame lieutenant, staff, notifications. 4 You know. Remember there's like 900 inmates in 5 there. 6 MR. : Right. 7 MR. : I know he's high-profile, but 8 we also have to monitor other inmates. The 9 round situation. If that's true. That could 10 have been a little bit you know -. You've got 11 to make rounds in SHU. 12 MR. : Counts too though, right? 13 MR. : You've got to make rounds and 14 counts. 15 MR. : Now going back to there. 16 You say it's not on anybody. But if he's - 17 psychology is saying he's required to have a 18 cellmate. It's got to be on somebody. Right? 19 If he's on the hotlist. He's in SHU where he's 20 supposed to have a cellmate anyway. And 21 psychology is saying he's got to have a 22 cellmate. It's got to fall to somebody to make 23 sure. Hey, who is supposed to make sure this 24 guy has got a cellmate? His cellmate is gone. 25 He doesn't have a cell mate. EFTA00062919

272 1 MR. : Mm-hm. 2 MR. : Because 3 MR. : So if I know. If I get the 4 notice by 8:00. Right? So I'm evening watch 5 ops. I get the notice. Hey, this guy doesn't 6 have a cellmate. All right. What's my call? 7 I just throw him in there with anybody? 8 MR. : My thought - and from 9 talking to other people - are supposed to be 10 that SHU staff should have notified the ops 11 lieutenant or the activities' lieutenant. Who 12 then should have notified the captain? 13 MR. : Yeah. At 8:00. I could see 14 that. But at that time on day watch, hm-mm. 15 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 16 MR. : It's a judgment call. 17 MR. : And I'm not talking about 18 at 8:00 a.m. I'm saying like what you just 19 said -- 20 MR. : I want to say we can't 21 (Indiscernible *03:24:48) notice. 22 MR. : -- you don't think that 23 the cellmate thing should be on anybody. Well 24 but it's like it's got to be on somebody. If 25 he's required to have a cellmate, somebody's EFTA00062920

273 1 2 3 4 got to make sure he's got a cellmate. MR. : Yeah. Yeah but what if I don't -. Remember these guys don't even - the guys on evening watch wasn't even sure it was 5 right. It was overtime. I know 6 MR. : Well no, I'm not talking 7 8 MR. : I think worked -. 9 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. I'm 10 talking it was 11 MR. : But if I'm the OIC. 12 MR. : I think and Noel. 13 MR. : He wasn't even in custody at 14 that time no more. 15 MR. : All right. So but you 16 got -. Tova Noel who 17 MR. : Mm-hm. 18 MR. : -- that's her quarterly 19 post. 20 MR. : She did a double that day, 21 right? 22 MR. : Well she - but yea but at 23 8:00 p.m. that was her first shift, right? 24 MR. : Mm-hm. 25 MR. : So we're talking - we're EFTA00062921

274 1 not now talking about morning watch. We're 2 talking about - you're saying 8:00 p.m., right? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : So that's evening watch. 5 So we're looking at -. Where are we looking 6 at? 7 MR. : So if I know - if I'm 8 notified by 8:00. And I call the captain. Say 9 hey, this guy don't -. What's my next move 10 then? Throw him in there with anybody? Or 11 MR. : Yeah, so we have 12 Noel, and 13 MR. : Mm-hm. 14 MR. : So yeah, I guess-. 15 MR. : I mean I can see them saying 16 - whoever said that. Because they say hey, 17 kick it up. 18 MR. : Right. 19 MR. : You know. Kick it up. Kick 20 the blame up top. Now if I'm on, what do you 21 want me to do? Throw the guy in there with 22 anybody? Just because he have to have a 23 cellmate? 24 MR. : Well some people have 25 said that at the very least they would have put EFTA00062922

275 1 him on like a dry cell type of a situation 2 where you've got a staff member on him until he 3 can get placed with a cellmate. 4 MR. : Yeah. But that's a 5 questionable move too. 6 MR. : Um. 7 MR. : You want me to take him and 8 put him on - you know? 9 MR. : So you believe - so I 10 guess. What is your belief then? 11 MR. : I mean there was a time and 12 opportunity. Guy wanted to take his life. The 13 inmate left. He saw the time and opportunity. 14 He did it. The officers - you know. 15 MR. : But don't -? 16 MR. : Uh yeah. 17 MR. : -- do you believe though 18 as a correctional officer it's the 19 responsibility to ensure that we ensure that 20 they don't die in our custody? 21 MR. : Well that's what the rounds 22 is for. That's why it's so important. 23 MR. : All right. So that's why 24 you think it's really the rounds and the 25 counts. Not necessarily the cellmate but the EFTA00062923

276 1 rounds and the counts. 2 MR. : Well in SHU, you required to 3 do it. 4 MR. : Right. 5 MR. : You have to do it. It's for 6 the inmate. 7 MR. : And if they're not doing 8 the rounds - the 30-minute rounds - that's 9 really the blame here? 10 MR. : That's a bad situation. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : It's a bad situation. 13 MR. : So you blame it on the 14 rounds way more than you would blame it on the 15 cellmate? 16 MR. : That's it. The cellmate, he 17 ain't here. Yeah. 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : You know I mean that 20 happened. It's the same thing. I understand 21 they sent out the notification. There's no 22 timeframe on that. 23 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. 24 MR. : Is an inmate goes hey, you 25 know, by the way, this guy was on - you sent EFTA00062924

277 1 this out a month ago. He's not suicidal no 2 more. He said it. It's like you know. 3 MR. : Well in this case I think 4 it was like 9 days. But yeah. 5 MR. : Yeah. But there's still no 6 timeframe. Some guys say they suicidal just to 7 get out of SHU and play the game. Go back in. 8 MR. : Right. 9 MR. : But it's never saying hey 10 this guy is not. There's no memo saying he 11 does need a cellmate. 12 MR. : Would you agree though 13 that it's both? The fact that he was required 14 to have a cellmate and they weren't conducting 15 rounds? 16 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 17 MR. : And that's where - when I 18 talk about the problems. 19 MR. : The thing is, that happened, 20 but it's - that can happen. Hey oh. His 21 Bunkie left. I didn't put a cellmate. That 22 can happen. 23 MR. : Right. 24 MR. : You know. That can happen 25 here. EFTA00062925

278 1 MR. : Right. 2 MR. : You get inmates that was 3 crying on level two. Hey, got to have a 4 cellmate. You moved him? Yeah. Oh you ain't 5 check? Oh you know. 6 MR. : Yeah. So I think what I 7 understand you saying is that the primary issue 8 is not doing rounds. Secondary and a much 9 lesser issue was that they didn't fill up his 10 cellmate. Is that correct? 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : Okay. And are there any 13 other problems or violations occurring inside 14 the MCC that we should be made aware of? 15 MR. : Mm. 16 MR. : We're talking about the 17 MCC. 18 MR. : Violations? 19 MR. : Anything that we should 20 have known about that you think needs to be 21 fixed. 22 MR. : You got mandated a lot. I 23 know that. You're working. 24 MR. : So there's - is what 25 you're saying then that they're severely EFTA00062926

279 1 understaffed? 2 MR. : They was. I don't know how 3 it is now. Buy they was. 4 MR. : And again when did you 5 leave there? 6 MR. : Uh December '19. 7 MR. : December of 2019? At 8 that point they were still extremely over -? 9 MR. : Extremely. 10 MR. : What about - was there 11 anything that was being fixed ever since when 12 Epstein died and August of 2019. Did you see 13 anything being fixed by that point? 14 MR. : Uh. They did change the log. 15 I know that. 16 MR. : What does that mean? 17 MR. : They started putting inmates 18 that go to court. Just in case. We started 19 doing them and started attaching the PP38 to 20 the log. 21 MR. : So they would almost be 22 part of the outcount? 23 MR. : No. You could see. You 24 could see all the movement. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00062927

280 1 MR. : You know. You could see all 2 the movement. They started single cell memos. 3 Every time I need to know- every night. 4 Because I worked the morning. Every night I 5 need the -. Hey whose up there - single cell? 6 That was an every night thing. We started that 7 um. More rounds. More reiteration of doing 8 your rounds. Um. I know the rounds. They got 9 tighter with the rounds. The log. Mm. It was 10 some things. There were some things. As far 11 as staff, I think they did hire a class like 12 right before. But um. You know. 13 MR. : Now has that just been a 14 constant problem with um with the MCC with 15 being able to like fill -? 16 MR. : I mean that's -. Yeah. 17 That's been a problem for a while. It wasn't 18 like that when I first got there though. 19 MR. : And what is - why do you 20 think it's so hard to keep that place staffed? 21 MR. : Well uh I think they can't 22 compete. It's the pay. They're not competing 23 with other agencies. It's a tough job. 24 Working there is tough. 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062928

281 1 MR. : It's not easy. I'll tell you 2 that. 3 MR. : What it makes it so 4 tough? 5 MR. : You've got some unruly 6 inmates. 7 MR. : Yep. 8 MR. : You got a lot of unruly 9 inmates. You doing some long hours. 10 MR. : Are they doing long hours 11 though because it's understaffed? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : And that's what I mean. 14 So it sounds to me, I mean an outsider's 15 perspective. Is that they need a lot more 16 employees. 17 MR. No. They need that 18 definitely more employees. 19 MR. : Is there a way for us to 20 not only get employees but get good employees? 21 What would be a solution there? 22 MR. : I mean you got to recruit. 23 You got to take people that really want to do 24 the job. 25 MR. : Um. EFTA00062929

282 1 MR. : I mean it takes some people 2 that. You know. Say hey, you can make this 3 your first year. Just going to put some work 4 in it. You've got people that want it. You 5 know. That wants the money. 6 MR. : You think that it means 7 they should have like a higher pay at the MCC? 8 And the MDC? 9 MR. : Higher pay or you look for 10 people that are looking for opportunity. You 11 know. 12 MR. : Like as in make it like a 13 rotating place? You have to do a certain 14 amount of time there and then you can go to 15 like your choice location afterwards? 16 MR. : I mean. 17 MR. : What do you mean by 18 opportunity? I guess I should say. 19 MR. : Like I don't know. I know 20 the - I think it's a college requirement or 21 credit something like that. Is it? I don't 22 know. I'm not sure. 23 MR. : I have -. We've 24 definitely talked to people that don't have 25 bachelor's degrees. EFTA00062930

283 1 MR. : Yeah. But I think they have 2 um credits. I think they change it for 3 credits. 4 MR. : Yeah. Some people have 5 said some college. 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : That we've talked to that 8 they don't have 9 MR. : I think -. 10 MR. : I don't think I've talked 11 to anybody that said they didn't have any 12 college. But I mean I think it was like a 13 couple credits. You know. 14 MR. : Yeah. But I mean some people 15 without college, it's one opportunity to say 16 hey, you can make $60,000 your first year. I 17 just need you to show up and work. 18 MR. : Right. 19 MR. : Follow the rules. You know. 20 And the credit check I think was getting a lot 21 of people. 22 MR. : Is that right? 23 MR. : Yeah. Credit checks. I 24 think that's what weeds out a lot of people. 25 MR. : Now do you believe though EFTA00062931

284 1 - on that note - if we're not doing credit 2 checks, we're letting that slide. Wouldn't 3 that breed a potential problem with 4 introduction of contraband and being paid you 5 know for brining things in? 6 MR. : Bribery and stuff? 7 MR. : Yeah. Because that's a 8 big problem in the BOP. 9 MR. : Yeah. But I think that's -. 10 I mean you've got some people in there I mean. 11 That don't work. That don't. no. you could 12 be. I seen people get arrested with good 13 credit. 14 MR. : Right. 15 MR. : Six figures - making six 16 figures and do some corrupt stuff. 17 MR. : Right-right. 18 MR. : So. That's not it. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : I'm not saying take everyone. 21 But you know. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : It's like if you renting to 24 somebody and you a landlord. And you say 25 alright, I know you ain't got the top score, EFTA00062932

285 1 but I see you pay your bills on time. You had 2 a little student loan debt here or whatever. 3 I'll give you a shot. 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : You know. 6 MR. : What have you got? 7 MR. : You mentioned that you saw 8 Epstein in the conference room. 9 MR. : Attorney conference. Yeah. 10 MR. : And sometimes he was 11 sleeping. 12 MR. : It looked like he was 13 sleeping. He would lay down on the table like 14 that. 15 MR. : Is that normal for inmates to 16 be sleep in the conference room? 17 MR. : To sleep? No. that's not 18 normal. Most guys is trying to get out. Saying 19 hey, you need to do this and do that. 20 MR. : Did anyone ever tell him to 21 wake up or address it? 22 MR. : I don't think so. 23 MR. : The reason I ask is like was 24 that a privilege that was allowed to Epstein? 25 To do that? EFTA00062933

286 1 MR. : No. It wasn't a privilege. 2 I think the being that he was there from early 3 in the morning to whatever time. The lawyers 4 probably like alright, let's look over this. 5 And he probably laying, and I'll wait until 6 y'all finished. And then alright, let's go. 7 But he also gets to buy out the vending machine 8 too. At first. 9 MR. : The vending machine? 10 MR. : Yeah. He used to get all his 11 snacks. 12 MR. : Yeah. Because you weren't 13 allowed to give him food in there right? 14 MR. : In the SHU? You got food. 15 MR. : Not in SHU. 16 MR. : In attorney -. 17 MR. : Attorney conference. I 18 was told that he basically had to get his own 19 food from the vending machines. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Was he allowed -? Would 22 people feed him - the BOP food - when he was in 23 attorney conference? Would they bring him a 24 tray? 25 MR. : Mm. No. I don't think so. EFTA00062934

287 1 I don't even think he even ate that. I'm not 2 sure. I don't even know if he even ate the BOP 3 food. He probably just ate commissary. 4 MR. : Oh so there's a 5 commissary he could go to? 6 MR. : Sure. You could go to 7 commissary in SHU. 8 MR. : No. I'm talking about 9 because 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. he was always 10 with attorney conference. 11 MR. : Yeah. So he used to get 12 drinks and chips - snack food. 13 MR. : And that's what he would 14 just eat all day? 15 MR. : I don't know about all day. 16 But I know you know he'll have a - hey, make 17 sure when the lawyers come, they get his sodas 18 and drinks and they get us his chips. 19 MR. : Hm. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Do you know anything 22 about would he eat before he would go and then 23 be afforded a tray as soon as he got back to 24 SHU? 25 MR. : Oh. I mean yeah . but that EFTA00062935

288 1 wouldn't be -. That wouldn't be kind of 2 common. That's what any legal visit that we 3 used to do. 4 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. I'm just 5 saying if he's 7 days a week not eating - only 6 eating a bag of chips or something from 8:00 7 a.m. to 8:00 p.m., that seems like he'd get a 8 little more hungry than that. 9 MR. : Yeah. I don't know. I don't 10 know - I don't recall him getting a tray in 11 there though. 12 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. No. 13 MR. : Yeah. I don't know. 14 MR. : I don't know if he was or 15 not. That's why I was asking. 16 MR. : Yeah. But if he comes back 17 from there and they said hey that's my tray 18 from earlier and if he was in legal visit, we 19 would give it to him. 20 MR. : Right. 21 MR. : I mean that's common 22 practice. 23 MR. : Let's say - once left 24 that morning. 25 MR. : Who? EFTA00062936

289 1 MR. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Once he left that morning, I 4 know there's like a sheet that keeps track of 5 all the inmates in the SHU. Right? They have 6 like a bed count sheet. 7 MR. : Bed book count. 8 MR. : Bed book count. Would that 9 book need to be updated? 10 MR. : That he left? Yeah. 11 MR. : Whose responsibility would 12 that have been? 13 MR. : Uh. I don't know officers. 14 MR. : So officers should have 15 updated it. Now let's say they went in 4:00 16 p.m. count. And then 9:00 p.m. count - god 17 forbid there was something off with the count. 18 They would have to pull out eh bed book and 19 verify it. Right? 20 MR. : If you get two bad counts. 21 MR. : Two bad counts. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : But if no one updated the 24 book, would that be an issue? 25 MR. : Well if you get two bad EFTA00062937

290 1 counts, you've got to a bed book. And then 2 you'll find discrepancy. But then again, you 3 know who usually updates the bed book count? 4 MR. : The lieutenant? 5 MR. : Morning watch. Because I'm 6 now - this is the new day - 12:01. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : This person's not here. Now 9 I know for a fact that this is what I'm 10 starting my day with - for the whole day. 11 MR. : I was going to show one - the 12 same document. You mentioned that when you 13 were working the SHU around 2:00 a.m. you would 14 have got the court document. Right? The 15 attorney would have brought it up. Or someone 16 would have brought up the document. 17 MR. : Yeah. It comes up on morning 18 watch. 19 MR. : If - I mean and we don't know 20 for sure if that was the same happening. Who 21 would have got that notification at 2:00 a.m. 22 on August 9th? 23 MR. : About the paperwork? 24 MR. : About the court documents. 25 MR. : Uh probably internal. EFTA00062938

291 1 MR. : No who in the SHU. Who was 2 in the SHU at that point? Who would have 3 gotten notified? Hey, listen is leaving 4 in the morning. 5 MR. : Uh. and Thomas. 6 MR. _: Thomas? 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : And let's say the morning 9 came around. The shift changes and -. Who 10 would have notified um - they got the document? 11 They - is leaving. 12 MR. : Mm-hm. 13 MR. : Who would have notified 14 control or kept track of the fact that is 15 walking out of there? 16 MR. : And again I told you, see if 17 you don't - it's not a thought. It's not 18 coming on my radar until -. 19 MR. : No. I'm not saying that. 20 But who in the SHU would have been responsible? 21 MR. : Someone in the SHU like I 22 said evening watch around 8:00. If they're 23 saying hey, R&D they weren't back? Make sure 24 our count is right. But um. Yeah. 25 MR. : That's it. I just had to EFTA00062939

292 1 clarify that. Thank you. 2 MR. : But just because Thomas 3 and got that sheet, it doesn't mean 4 that they would have done anything at that 5 time, right? Wouldn't it have been the next 6 shift to get -? Who would have gotten him 7 ready to do at 8:30? 8 MR. : Well depending on what time. 9 I mean they could do it at 6:00. 10 MR. : They being? 11 MR. : Hey, whoever comes in at 12 6:00. Hey, he got court. 13 MR. : All right. So they would 14 have been the guys that probably getting 15 everybody ready to go to court? 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : Okay. At least giving 18 them notice. 19 MR. : Who was on shift to get 20 ready? If he left around 8:00. 21 MR. : Uh 22 23 MR. -: was though? 24 MR. was there at 6:00 25 yeah. EFTA00062940

293 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : He was SHU 3. 3 MR. : Okay. At 6:00 a.m.? 4 MR. Yep. I see - wait. So I see 5 he notified his relief is what he's saying. 6 Right? was his relief at 2:00. 7 MR. : Yeah. According to that 8 memo. 9 MR. : Yeah. I mean yeah. It's one 10 of those situations. 11 MR. : That's all I got. 12 MR. : Okay. Cool. Anything 13 you got (Indiscernible *03:40:03). We had a 14 really long interview here. So I apologize for 15 that. But we do appreciate you bearing with 16 us. All right. It is 4:46 p.m. on Monday, 17 July 12, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent 18 and I am turning off the 19 recorder. 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00062941

294 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of , Transcriber EFTA00062942

A Ability - 158:19, 244:1 Abnormal - 23:20, 56:18, 56:21, 56:24, 57:5, 57:18, 79:5, 175:16, 175:17, 176:7, 176:9, 177:24, 246:5, 250:2 Above - 5:21, 14:23, 91:25, 253:15 Acceptable - 181:9 Accepted - 142:22 Access - 216:2 According - 6:5, 61:10, 104:15, 162:23, 293:7 Accordingly - 5:13 Account - 233:4 Accountability - 89: 10, 89:15 Accuracy - 121:5 Accurate - 66:20 Act - 5:10 Acted - 269:17 Acting - 14:16, 155:15, 181:21, 181:22 Action - 5:14, 93:1, 202:13, 208:22, 209:4, 209:12, 214:2, 224:22 Actions - 90:21, 90:25 Activities - 28:6, 41:8, 58:17, 88:8, 150:6, 150:9, 155:21 Activity - 24:5 Actual - 110:13, 145:2, 149:21, 165:3, 165:18, 183:4 Add - 8:10, 132:22 Additional - 231:6 Address - 8:11, 45:4, 46:17, 285:21 Afforded - 287:23 Afterwards - 282:15 Against - 5:15, 5:24 Agencies - 280:23 Agency - 5:18 Agent - 4:2, 4:6, 4:8, 6:23, 6:25, 7:2, 293:17 Agents - 130:12 Ago - 277:1 Agree - 4:17, 6:2, 165:7, 166:6, 277:12 Ahead - 41:18, 66:11, 157:19, 159:9 Ain't - 84:1, 127:13, 170:9, 180:13, 187:4, 217:3, 243:23, 276:17, 278:4, 284:25 Alarm - 90:10, 90:12 Alert - 98:3, 101:16, 196:8 Alive - 104:23, 165:11 Allow - 37:15 Allowed - 18:4, 137:9, 238:14, 249:11, 249:17, 250:20, 253:1, 270:6, 285:24, 286:13, 286:21 Allows - 173:21 Almost - 228:22, 279:21 Alone - 32:10, 269:17 Along - 62:17 Alphabetical - 39:2 0 Already - 40:4, 82:13, 128:12, 148:20, 150:25, 211:21, 212:17, 212:18, 222:13, 227:19 Alright - 184:19, 195:7, 255:18, 257:2, 284:25, 286:4, 286:6 Although - 118:9 Always - 39:13, 48:11, 66:20, 69:10, 102:24, 161:6, 170:21, 175:22, 211:18, 287:9 Am -4:6, 4:8, 4:10, 5:21, 7:1, 120:10, 293:18 Amended - 5:10 Amount - 253:11, 282:14 And/Or - 91:15, 169:18 79:11, 103:24, 197:8, 199:14, 199:15, 228:8, 230:12, 231:7, 270:16 Answer - 4:25, 5:14, 5:16, 5:22, 7:17, 92:4 Answered - 228:20 Answers - 4:16, 23:19, 97:5, 118:11 Anybody's - 137:14 Anymore - 186:18, 196:14 Anytime - 15:21 Anyway - 17:15, 44:9, 142:22, 154:22, 271:20 Anyways - 247:19 Anywhere - 34:22, 70:25, 80:5 Apart - 161:7 Apologize - 109:18, 293:14 Apparently - 129:15 Appear - 164:12, 168:19 Appears - 227:23, 227:24 Apply - 22:11, 22:12 Appreciate - 293:15 Appreciated - 234:2 2 Appropriate - 39:10 , 194:25, 221:18, 224:21 Approved - 37:16, 92:9 Approximately - 9: 18, 35:11, 61:18, 212:17, 225:13 Area - 100:22, 100:23, 101:3, 199:21, 199:23, 206:19, 239:6, 239:9, 239:10, 239:20, 240:7, 243:25, 245:20, 264:13 Aren't - 111:25, 123:2, 192:7, 254:2 Arrested - 284:12 Arrival - 61:23, 222:6, 225:19 Arrive - 70:5 Arrived - 30:6 Aside - 120:1, 123:2 Ask - 7:10, 22:15, 22:17, 41:14, 45:19, 52:10, 76:11, 81:4, 120:18, 124:1, 168:1, 177:12, 259:18, 285:23 Asked - 4:15, 5:6, 19:3, 42:7 Assigned - 31:14, 31:21, 32:9, 38:18, 221:8 Assignment - 11:7, 20:14, 47:21, 82:9, 232:25, 233:2 Assistant - 205:10 Assisting - 269:11 Associated - 150:1 3, 150:19 Assume - 149:22, 160:23 Assumed - 30:14, 169:7 Assuming - 13:20, 41:1, 91:7, 100:5, 112:8, 258:24 Assumption - 169:1 7, 171:10 Assurances - 5:4, 5:20 Ate - 287:1, 287:2, 287:3 Attaching - 279:19 Attempt - 265:3 Attempted - 32:18 Attempts - 98:17, 265:6 Attendance - 18:24, 21:23 Attorneys - 241:2, 260:9 Audience - 204:16, 206:3 Authority - 14:20, 14:24 Authorized - 241:10 , 249:3, 251:4, 251:19 Available - 250:15 Avenue - 8:12 Avoid - 178:14 Away - 15:22, 241:23 r B BA - 27:5 Bachelors - 8:24 Bachelors - 282:25 Bad - 144:8, 144:9, 144:15, 144:16, 146:6, 147:7, 147:10, 147:11, 147:15, 151:11, 276:10, 276:12, 289:20, 289:21, 289:25 Baffling - 135:16, 167:17 Bag - 220:8, 288:6 Bail - 33:15, 34:5, 34:6 Ball - 76:2, 173:13 Banging - 89:11 Base - 80:16, 86:3, 86:16, 86:25, 87:2, 87:22, 134:21 Based - 143:21, 156:10, 169:11, 207:15 Basic - 144:7, 201:24 Basically - 44:13, 113:9, 165:4, 181:20, 195:21, 200:18, 260:24, 286:18 Basis - 5:5 Bearing - 293:15 Became - 63:5 Become - 11:16, 58:5, 62:15 Bed - 289:6, 289:7, 289:8, 289:18, 290:1, 290:3 Beginning - 173:5 Behavior - 98:17 Behind - 101:7, 204:9 Belief - 63:3, 170:10, 275:10 Bell - 39:24 Belongings - 62:12 Below - 267:24 Between - 14:1, 37:18, 80:1, 115:17, 115:24, 139:2, 224:5, 228:2, 261:22,261:23 Big - 119:8, 177:25, 258:14, 284:8 Biggest - 30:21, 49:4, 53:16, 258:2 Bills - 285:1 Birth - 8:14 Bit - 271:10 Blame - 116:16, 173:12, 208:4, 271:3, 274:20, 276:9, 276:13, 276:14 Blanket - 6:7, 37:14, 251:6, 251:10, 251:13 Blankets - 250:9, 250:12, 250:17, 251:8 EFTA00062943

Blanks - 156:9 Board - 17:3, 87:9 Bodies - 152:1 Body - 141:9 Book - 37:16, 289:7, 289:8, 289:9, 289:18, 289:24, 290:1, 290:3 Books - 89:7, 230:13, 253:2 BOP - 9:11, 10:8, 10:9, 10:10, 10:23, 11:8, 212:18, 215:14, 215:19, 215:24, 219:24, 237:3, 284:8, 286:22, 287:2 Both - 5:19, 93:20, 106:9, 106:10, 115:24, 122:22, 124:11, 151:11, 165:25, 166:23, 226:16, 226:21, 226:23, 277:13 Bottles - 250:3 Bottom - 52:12 Box - 45:23 Boxes - 250:8 Breakdown - 208:2 1 Breaks - 10:19 Breed - 284:3 Bribery - 284:6 Bring - 45:5, 45:9. 45:11, 59:25, 242:16, 259:14, 261:7, 286:23 Brining - 284:5 Brooklyn - 60:16, 211:23 Brought - 168:18, 290:15, 290:16 Brown - 220:8 Brung - 134:12, 258:5 Building - 153:5, 231:15 Bunk - 32:7, 91:3, 97:8 Bunked - 31:24, 102:15, 226:19 Bunkie - 91:4, 91:7, 97:11, 97:14, 101:17, 196:9, 196:10, 208:11, 208:14, 208:23, 221:2, 264:23, 265:2, 277:21 Bureau - 3:6, 9:25 Bus - 183:14 Busy - 24:13, 60:1, 60:6, 176:13 Buy - 279:3, 286:7 C - 146:3 Called - 27:9, 36:12, 36:24, 59:19, 62:18, 64:12, 72:20, 92:23, 121:20, 126:21, 159:9 Calling - 84:9, 127:2, 127:7, 134:17 Calls - 80:22, 81:8, 170:8, 171:24, 171:25, 239:9, 241:20, 242:8, 263:7 Camera - 265:23 Cameras - 235:6, 235:15, 235:23, 237:2, 247:22, 265:17, 265:20, 266:2, 266:22 Cancelled - 79:13, 79:14, 80:18 Candor - 118:13 • Cannot - 258:20 Capabilities - 94:2 Captain - 14:6, 14:16, 24:17, 42:21, 73:17, 91:25, 197:8, 220:20, 227:3, 234:17, 241:10, 241:16, 257:14, 272:12, 274:8 Captain's - 74:3 Care - 150:21 Carrying - 249:24 Case - 31:3, 34:2, 93:8, 119:8, 143:8, 173:10, 186:5, 186:22, 188:4, 196:12, 204:12, 258:2, 258:14, 259:20, 277:3, 279:18 Cases - 32:6 Catch - 83:9, 87:22, 154:16 Caught - 145:4, 156:12, 164:1, 164:3, 164:4, 164:14, 188:21, 252:4 Cellmates - 91:25, 99:12, 101:12, 102:20, 103:1 Cells - 26:7, 45:14, 45:19, 46:2, 46:18, 103:6, 105:2, 141:2, 247:22, 251:11, 265:13, 265:15, 265:21 Center - 3:14, 3:15, 3:16, 3:22, 3:25, 7:6 Certain - 32:6, 55:23, 89:18, 89:19, 182:20, 282:13 Certainly - 187:20 Certifying - 120:16, 121:4 Chain - 223:2, 228:25 Change - 80:16, 87:10, 90:6, 97:4, 126:8, 148:19, 158:8, 159:6, 159:7, 162:15, 226:13, 279:14, 283:2 Changed - 87:23, 124:3, 127:10, 127:11, 140:3, 140:4, 146:20, 161:16, 164:19 Changes - 123:25, 159:15, 196:3, 229:14, 291:9 Changing - 154:23 Chaplain - 242:13, 242:15, 243:23 Charge - 61:6, 71:16 Charges - 267:13 Checked - 94:19, 101:11, 189:23, 247:23 Checking - 26:4, 26:5, 29:9, 101:10, 109:12, 136:23, 190:17, 195:25, 200:22, 227:18, 231:1, 235:17, 247:16 Checks - 185:18, 283:23, 284:2 Child - 267:13 Chips - 287:12, 287:18, 288:6 Choice - 282:15 Choose • 5:15 Circumstance -64: 18 Circumstances - 4: 15, 6:17 Circus - 53:17 City - 9:5 Clarification - 8:10, 66:12 Clarify - 292:1 Class - 280:11 Classification -182 :20 Classified - 190:4 Clear - 125:10, 126:5, 206:6 Cleared - 140:5 Clearly - 192:15 Clothes - 37:20, 37:23, 38:4, 38:5, 38:7, 263:24 Clothing - 248:9, 251:17, 253:5, 253:8, 253:11, 254:3 CMC - 71:17, 71:23, 73:22, 73:24 CNA - 157:23, 157:24, 159:1 CO - 190:16 Coercion - 5:23 Collaborate - 87:4 College - 282:20, 283:5, 283:12, 283:15 Colored - 96:7 Com - 236:19, 236:20 Conies - 17:2, 42:25, 43:2, 43:5, 43:19, 68:1, 68:3, 95:25, 101:14, 136:22, 186:1, , 202:20, 229:13, 231:15, 288:16, 290:17, 292:11 Command - 223:2, 228:25 Commissary - 287: 3, 287:5, 287:7 Commit - 32:18, 186:10, 266:12 Common - 43:8, 101:24, 102:2, 241:8, 288:2, 288:21 Communicate - 41: 8, 238:9 Communicated - 4 4:21, 78:17, 78:19 Communication - 2 08:21, 237:18, 238:2 Communications - 48:23 Compare - 124:4 Comparing - 89:20 Compassionate - 2 42:12, 242:17, 242:20 Compete - 280:22 Competing - 280:22 Complain - 260:3, 263:9 Complaint - 263:22 Complaints - 263:9, 263:15 Complete - 26:23 Completely - 234:5 Compliance - 109:7 Computer - 86:5, 215:7, 218:7, 218:9 Condense -46:3 Conduct - 25:23, 53:10, 104:17, 104:21, 106:13, 106:17, 168:17, 189:14, 193:12, 245:3, 245:6 Conducting - 25:9, 25:17, 52:15, 52:16, 55:11, 88:17, 107:15, 165:6, 244:8, 244:12, 244:13, 248:17, 277:14 Confident - 65:2 Confused - 151:2 Confusing - 146:10 Connecticut - 3:13 Considering - 228: 21 Consist - 25:3, 26:15 Conspiracy - 116:2 5, 117:5, 176:3 Constant - 280:14 Constantly - 218:18 Constituted - 118:1 3 Consuming - 239:1 7 Contacted - 159:24, 171:11, 171:17 Continue - 66:9, 113:1, 195:16, 197:4 EFTA00062944

Continued - 112:18, 197:17 Contraband - 284:4 Conversation - 76: 5, 77:21, 117:14, 170:1, 200:15, 267:22, 267:23 Conversing - 180:1 9 Cool - 7:9, 29:16, 40:2, 122:25, 123:17, 293:12 Coordinator - 74:1 Cord - 239:13, 251:24 Corrected - 188:20 Correcting - 171:24 Correctional - 3:12, 72:22, 72:23, 73:1, 73:13, 73:14, 73:15, 73:25, 204:3, 204:4, 205:11, 205:13, 205:14, 275:18 Corrections - 71:19 , 152:25 Correctly - 109:16, 109:17 Correlated - 97:16 Corresponds - 195: 21 Corrupt - 284:16 Cos - 26:5, 104:21, 106:12, 190:4, 206:18 CO's - 25:16, 157:5, 203:12 Couldn't - 135:11, 135:13 Counted - 107:13 Counting - 165:9, 166:3, 166:22, 169:1, 233:9 Couple - 35:25, 52:10, 204:7, 283:13 Course - 194:17 Courtesy - 172:10 Courts - 72:17 Cover - 18:10 Create - 69:12, 71:9, 258:18 Created - 69:2, 174:19 Creates - 66:17, 66:21, 67:1, 71:7 Creating - 31:2 Credentials - 3:5 Credit - 282:21, 283:20, 283:23, 284:1, 284:13 Credits - 283:2, 283:3, 283:13 Crew - 60:3, 60:8, 60:21, 61:7 Criminal - 5:17, 9:1. 9:2 Crying - 278:3 Cuff - 41:25, 248:5 Current - 8:20, 13:13 Custody - 59:13, 72:9, 72:10, 73:7, 73:10, 73:11, 73:15, 73:21, 87:25, 88:3, 93:13, 273:13, 275:20 Cut - 104:3 D Daily - 15:18, 20:14, 43:9, 43:13, 82:9, 103:8, 163:1, 187:3 Dan - 236:10 Danbury - 3:12, 3:13, 3:25, 4:1, 7:6, 12:2, 12:20, 13:10 Date - 3:10, 7:3, 8:13, 10:17, 15:18, 15:24, 18:13, 19:20, 25:19, 38:12, 54:15, 68:6, 86:8, 108:1, 120:19, 123:1, 156:11, 177:15 Dating -40:18 61:19, 84:14, 84:16, 91:11, 225:15, 225:23, 225:24, 273:5, 274:11, 293:6 Days - 23:24, 24:4, 24:13, 35:25, 108:10, 154:16, 198:2, 242:15, 246:18, 246:19, 246:22, 277:4, 288:5 Dead - 15:14 Deal - 72:16, 89:12, 135:16, 174:7, 197:10, 265:11 Death - 4:13, 242:23, 269:1 Debt - 285:2 December - 11:18, 11:19, 11:23, 11:24, 13:11, 13:12, 279:6, 279:7 Decided - 162:10 Decision - 205:20 Definite - 221:24, 226:7, 230:2, 230:7 Definitely - 35:13, 175:5, 175:17, 192:5, 192:12, 192:23, 199:8, 221:10, 225:7, 230:13, 234:21, 243:22, 268:8, 281:18, 282:24 Definitively - 229:1 7 Degrees - 282:25 Demeanor - 259:25, 262:22 - 3:2, 4:3, 4:6, 6:24, 293:18 Department - 3:3, 3:8, 5:2, 59:22, 71:12 Depending - 89:17, 90:3, 149:17, 249:21, 250:9, 250:13, 251:11, 292:8 Depends - 23:10, 43:17, 60:1, 60:14, 60:15, 87:6, 87:7, 95:3, 106:6, 148:5, 190:25, 206:19, 207:11, 210:25, 250:22, 250:23, 265:1 Desk - 100:22, 100:23, 101:3, 199:21, 199:23 Desks - 101:7 Determine - 127:9, 164:9 Determining - 82:1 0 Dial - 153:3 Die - 270:7, 275:20 Died - 6:16, 18:16, 21:2, 268:20, 269:5, 270:16, 279:12 Dies - 49:6, 257:25 Difference - 14:1, 37:18, 139:2 Different - 8:9, 59:15, 97:7, 152:12, 155:8, 157:7, 163:3, 168:1, 190:16, 193:13, 211:24, 264:13 Dig - 193:4 Dint' - 170:12, 215:1, 222:14 Directly - 62:20, 62:24, 84:9, 84:10, 170:13, 170:18, 170:25, 206:25 Director - 227:3 Directors - 229:4 Discharge - 59:2, 72:14 Disciplinary - 5:14, 5:18 Discipline - 191:11 Discrepancy - 290: 2 Discussed - 76:1, 179:9 Discussing - 75:4, 121:7 District - 229:23 Document - 15:22, 15:24, 15:25, 61:13, 70:25, 71:1, 112:16, 115:16, 120:17, 121:1, 121:6, 162:4, 162:11, 290:12, 290:14, 290:16, 291:10 Documented - 105: 3, 105:8, 149:22 Documents - 40:19, 126:19, 290:24 DOJ - 4:1, 4:6, 4:13, 4:18 Don' - 22:20 Door - 176:19 Double - 31:24, 190:6, 273:20 Downstairs - 148:1 4 Drinks - 287:12, 287:18 Dropped - 76:2, 173:12 Dude - 46:12, 138:10, 141:22, 170:3, 220:24, 257:25, 258:21 - 68:14, 68:16 During - 8:4, 22:7, 22:8, 23:13, 55:12, 85:12, 103:21, 113:1, 224:6, 244:19, 245:9, 247:20, 252:13 Duties - 24:23, 85:13, 155:19, 237:10 Duty - 10:17, 12:16, 47:21, 47:22, 87:3, 155:8, 168:23, 179:22, 205:22 Dying - 269:22 E E1s - 151:19 Each - 15:24, 21:25, 22:4, 26:1, 40:19, 122:3, 244:5, 251:4 Earlier -44:8, 119:3, 138:8, 288:18 Early - 17:17, 49:18, 60:16, 70:7, 70:8, 90:7, 171:5, 201:22, 260:15, 268:12, 286:2 Eastern - 229:22 Easy - 281:1 Eat - 287:14, 287:22 Eating - 288:5, 288:6 Eb - 246:19 Edit - 156:12 Education - 8:23 Eh - 150:1, 289:18 Eight - 113:7 Either/Or - 64:8, 93:20 Elevator - 259:3, 259:6 Elevators - 50:7 Emails - 43:18 Emergency - 216:2 4, 243:20 Employee - 5:4, 5:25, 237:4 Employees - 281:1 6, 281:18, 281:20 Employee's - 6:1 End - 107:4, 165:20, 214:13, 228:3 Ended - 224:7, 269:21 Enough - 19:13, 106:22, 146:24, 196:13, 267:8 Ensure - 275:19 Ensuring - 88:9, 102:24 Entail - 37:12, 37:19, 88:24, 89:5, 89:15, 189:8, 201:19, 237:10 Enter - 10:16, 216:3 Entered - 215:15, 216:2, 219:9 Entering - 215:16 Entire - 107:3, 107:4, 228:22, 256:3 Entries - 209:24, EFTA00062945

210:3 Entry - 210:4, 210:6, 210:8, 210:9, 212:8, 212:11 Epstein's - 51:7, 90:8, 90:23, 91:24, 94:22, 95:19, 97:5, 99:4, 99:11, 214:4, 220:16, 221:6, 225:5, 239:3, 255:6, 269:1 Equals - 234:2, 234:3 Especially - 85:19, 134:23, 135:20, 251:10 Evening - 14:19, 93:5, 171:1, 171:2, 178:19, 178:23, 231:1, 233:12, 238:15, 260:12, 272:4, 273:4, 274:4, 291:22 Event - 177:25 Eventually - 233:11 Everybody's - 6:18, 247:4 Everyone - 4:4, 43:1, 44:2, 46:5, 67:16, 94:21, 104:25, 106:21, 160:24, 161:7, 164:20, 242:11, 269:3, 284:20 Everyone's - 245:1 3 Everything - 86:4, 87:11, 156:8, 170:2, 176:12, 191:16 Evidence - 5:17 Exactly - 7:16, 26:11, 42:14, 100:4, 126:4, 126:6, 137:11, 162:1 Exceed - 56:3 Excessive - 252:20 Exchange - 254:8 Excuse - 194:25 Executive - 205:8 Expected - 93:6 Experience - 114:1 6, 127:10, 175:20 Expert - 223:10, 226:2 Explain - 72:11, 123:3, 123:21, 123:23 Explanation - 90:6 Extended - 266:16 Extra - 248:9, 251:5, 251:10, 251:13, 251:14, 251:16, 253:5, 253:8, 265:7, 266:13 Extremely - 152:11, 279:8, 279:9 Eye - 254:10 Eyes - 265:7, 266:14 F Face - 255:11, 263:6 Facilities - 235:25, 236:1, 236:4, 236:6 Facility - 232:21, 232:22 Failure -5:11, 5:12, 6:5, 6:14, 6:15, 7:18, 7:19 Fair - 19:13, 267:8 Fall - 116:5, 116:8, 161:7, 271:22 False - 174:19 Falsifying - 131:13, 176:12 Familiar - 31:11, 126:19, 198:8 Family - 242:23 Far - 14:10, 18:21, 32:8, 44:1, 55:14, 72:12, 80:19, 88:5, 89:25, 137:25, 147:10, 153:4, 178:7, 183:17, 188:17, 206:10, 280:10 Fault - 198:25, 199:3 FCI - 3:25, 4:1, 7:5, 12:2, 12:20, 13:10 Federal - 3:6, 3:12, 9:25, 10:6 Feed - 248:5, 286:22 Feeding - 188:9 Feel - 6:2, 94:1, 99:17 Feelings - 267:15 Feels - 130:7 Felt - 81:6 Few - 12:18, 164:23, 209:21, 258:6 Field - 3:4 Figured - 126:25 Figures - 284:15, 284:16 Fill - 28:3, 112:8, 113:2, 119:9, 156:9, 278:9, 280:15 Filled - 105:21, 109:15, 109:17, 112:7, 112:18, 218:3 Filling - 107:1, 107:12 Fills - 105:24 Find - 16:5, 31:5, 59:11, 177:22, 290:2 Finding - 147:18 Fine - 22:21, 46:2 Fingers - 173:10 Finish - 41:15 Finished - 286:6 Fish - 251:22, 252:2 Fishing - 252:15, 252:18 Five - 245:7, 245:8, 245:14, 245:24 Fix - 270:19, 270:22 Fixed - 174:4, 278:21, 279:11, 279:13 Floor - 257:22, 259:4 Follow - 41:13, 42:17, 85:5, 184:10, 198:6, 203:12, 231:5, 283:19 Followed - 95:11, 208:9 Following - 177:3 Food - 204:12, 205:22, 253:2, 286:13, 286:14, 286:19, 286:22, 287:3, 287:12 Forbid - 289:17 Forever - 186:3 Forget - 40:18 Forgot - 216:21 Form - 4:21, 7:7 Forward - 127:4, 177:21 Found - 15:13, 77:4, 77:6, 77:13, 268:18 Four - 12:13, 12:22, 14:19, 251:8, 251:9 Frame - 196:20 Free - 6:2 Frequently - 160:24 Friday - 15:14, 15:15, 19:23, 19:24, 20:8, 20:16, 20:17, 20:18, 24:9, 57:9, 61:17, 163:20, 225:12 Full - 118:14 Funny - 96:25 Furnish - 5:16 Future - 5:17 FYI - 205:25, 206:2 G I Game - 277:7 Gap - 23:20 Gave - 20:23, 121:13, 121:17, 240:11, 240:17 General - 3:4, 3:9, 5:3, 5:8, 5:10, 27:16. 28:1, 43:8, 178:18, 183:23, 183:25, 255:23, 256:1, 256:6, 256:8, 256:18 Generic - 39:12, 67:16 Genuine - 23:18, 113:13, 114:10, 192:8 Gets - 68:4, 101:17, 129:10, 169:8, 169:16, 169:21, 196:6, 232:17, 265:18, 286:7 Getting - 39:25, 78:8, 165:4, 174:22, 189:5, 202:24, 203:9, 221:8, 263:13, 263:15, 283:20, 288:10, 292:14 Ghost - 132:25, 133:2, 134:19, 137:3 Given - 253:4 Gives - 39:8, 68:1, 249:22 Giving - 6:7, 20:14, 228:18, 292:17 GLYNCO - 11:2 GOD - 96:9, 289:16 Goes - 23:7, 63:15, 67:16, 89:4, 89:17, 116:13, 137:25, 163:20, 187:2, 188:21, 196:9, 198:22, 265:12, 276:24 Gone - 55:2, 84:2, 116:13, 220:16, 220:19, 225:5, 230:24, 268:8, 268:12, 271:24 Good - 27:1, 144:15, 146:7, 147:14, 150:16, 157:15, 172:25, 236:22, 281:20, 284:12 Gotcha - 113:22, 113:24, 114:8, 114:20, 116:4, 123:2, 123:21, 130:5, 152:10, 192:8 Gotta - 201:21 Gotten - 109:19, 111:12, 291:3, 292:6 Government - 270: 23 Grab - 18:24 Grabbing - 156:7 Graduate - 9:8 Graduated - 10:23 Grainy - 235 21 Group - 205:3, 205:5, 205:7 GS11 - 13:13 GS9 - 12:7 Guidance - 129:16, 189:11 Guy's - 63:25, 171:4, 172:12, 172:22, 184:14, 186:20, 203:9, 206:24, 212:19 H Hadn't - 130:23, 131:1 Half - 9:17 Hand - 8:2 Handing - 209:18 Hanging - 199:5 Happen - 112:2, 160:16, 277:20, 277:22, 277:24 Happening - 136:19 , 222:1, 290:20 Happens - 27:4, 34:25, 63:21, 185:25, 198:21, 222:2, 271:2 Hard - 223:14, 280:20 Harm - 33:9, 33:18, 33:19, 34:16, 44:17 Hasn't - 90:17 Hat - 88:7 Haven't - 30:13, 108:8, 164:21, 171:17, 192:16 Having -40:22, 47:14, 54:13, 77:7, EFTA00062946

77:11, 77:14 He' - 220:9 Heads - 172:9, 228:18 Hear - 33:7, 33:12, 92:10, 106:25, 107:6, 107:9, 107:19, 107:22, 108:18, 233:23, 235:18, 239:5, 241:19, 248:8 Heard - 33:11, 58:10, 92:1, 107:15, 108:4, 108:8, 108:17, 134:17, 235:16, 238:16, 238:20, 239:8, 242:5, 251:10 Hearing - 34:5 He'd - 260:15, 288:7 Hell - 130:17 He'll - 230:9, 287:16 Help -18:7, 18:16, 60:2, 117:13, 123:3, 123:21, 126:17, 126:20, 130:6, 130:16, 135:19, 152:11, 155:22, 156:9, 270:23 Helpful - 234:21 Her - 16:19, 20:12, 74:23, 94:14, 94:16, 154:1, 154:8, 154:21, 185:4, 188:18, 194:16, 194:20, 194:22, 273:18, 273:23 Here's - 149:1, 149:2, 149:6, 244:16 Hide - 118:17 Hiding - 118:14 High - 34:1, 41:2, 41:3, 91:20, 173:9, 174:11, 174:13, 175:7, 187:5, 257:11, 270:18, 271:7 Higher - 14:5, 15:4, 135:6, 282:7, 282:9 Highest - 8:22, 14:7, 14:8, 14:20, 226:23 Himself - 33:18, 34:17, 98:3, 193:22, 269:6 Hire - 280:11 Hit - 29:15 Hold - 147:1, 152:3, 153:13, 235:5 Holding - 207:15 Home - 8:10 Honestly - 91:2, 111:10, 165:19 Hoping - 135:19 Hospital - 131:8 Hot - 98:14, 98:15, 98:16, 98:18, 98:22, 98:25, 99:5, 99:11, 99:18, 100:19, 101:6, 101:13, 101:18, 101:24, 102:13 Hour - 23:20 Hours - 36:11, 36:20, 113:7, 138:8, 218:24,281:9, 281:10 House - 32:10, 226:7 Housed - 39:9, 46:13, 48:25, 63:24, 237:22 Housing - 61:16, 101:15, 152:5 However - 226:16 Huh - 45:10, 201:10, 254:19, 258:5 Hung - 269:6 Hunger - 32:11 Hungry - 288:8 I'd - 7:25, 83:21 Idea - 116:11, 146:2, 255:5 Identify - 4:4 I'll - 8:8, 18:10, 27:6, 52:10, 52:13, 84:24, 86:7, 89:11, 89:12, 125:12, 155:21, 191:6, 204:6, 239:14, 261:9, 281:1, 285:3, 286:5 Immediately - 42:12 , 186:20 Important - 99:18, 275:22 Impossible - 129:12 Incidences - 53:16 Incident - 33:1, 106:7, 107:5, 107:7 Including - 245:16 Incorrect - 147:3, 256:4 Incriminate - 114:2 3, 115:4 Indefinite - 230:3 Indicate - 111:5, 112:16, 126:8, 131:12, 167:11, 187:10 Indicates - 151:9 Individual - 16:17, 143:16, 148:6 Individuals - 59:24, 70:21, 231:9 Informed - 75:19 Ing - 249:20 Initial - 15:24, 101:17, 120:12, 120:19, 123:1, 123:18, 168:6, 195:24 Initialing -40:18, 118:7, 118:8, 120:10 Initially - 196:1, 201:4 Initials - 210:8 Inmate's - 184:9 Input - 214:10 Inside - 270:5, 278:13 Insight - 131:19 Inspector - 3:3, 3:9, 5:3, 5:8, 5:9 Instance - 16:17, 159:22, 181:16, 187:18, 244:16 Instances - 165:17 Instead - 142:3, 153:19 Institution - 3:12, 6:15, 11:10, 14:4, 25:1, 77:10, 231:2 Instructions - 38:17 , 42:20, 50:12, 50:14, 50:18, 50:23, 90:21, 238:5 Interacted - 41:20, 257:17, 262:4 Interacting - 262:6 Interaction - 36:4, 74:22 Interactions - 41:23 , 255:6, 255:7, 257:20 Internal - 68:3, 68:5, 68:7, 68:9, 68:22, 70:14, 106:3 106:4, 106:5, 206:13, 290:25 Internals - 68:11, 68:13 Interpret - 193:13 Interpretation - 191 :2 Interview - 3:5, 3:11, 4:2, 4:17, 4:24, 5:13, 6:9, 7:25, 8:4, 31:5, 42:19, 293:14 Interviewed - 76:24, 119:3 Interviews - 4:21, 7:21 Intimidate - 255:12 Into - 6:14, 6:16, 46:6, 52:9, 92:3, 97:13, 131:19, 136:7, 140:21, 189:7, 190:19, 193:4, 209:1, 255:19, 256:11, 257:3, 257:13, 262:17, 270:13 Introduction - 284: 4 Investigation - 3:9, 4:13, 5:7, 5:8, 5:10, 6:13 Involved - 53:6, 58:20, 58:23, 58:25, 126:15, 144:22, 145:17, 160:11, 209:22, 238:23 Involvement - 18:1 8, 32:25, 53:21, 53:23, 58:13, 58:16 Isn't - 50:24, 68:25, 84:4, 84:6, 84:23, 89:1, 100:5, 113:21, 116:3, 130:5, 138:20, 149:13, 187:25, 192:1, 216:16, 216:17, 230:2 Issue - 278:7, 278:9, 289:24 Issues - 42:5 Item - 231:8 Items - 37:15 It'll - 54:18, 118:16, 228:9 Its - 121:4 Itself - 24:1 I've - 64:14, 66:10, 67:13, 67:14, 67:22, 120:20, 190:6, 232:3, 261:4, 283:10 J Jack - 244:6 Jail - 85:20, 102:10, 102:21 Jay - 9:4 Jeffrey - 4:14, 31:11 JFK - 9:15 Job - 5:11, 6:4, 6:15, 7:18, 86:22, 88:6, 94:3, 94:4, 202:23, 202:25, 207:3, 247:11, 258:15, 280:23, 281:24 John - 9:4 Joke - 96:25 Judgment - 272:16 Jul - 201:11 July - 3:10, 7:4, 31:15, 32:19, 34:17, 34:20, 38:11, 39:7, 40:10, 40:11, 42:13, 44:22, 186:5, 186:13, 196:12, 196:24,200:18, 201:12, 293:17 June - 10:18 Justice - 3:3, 3:8, 5:2, 9:1, 9:2 K Keep - 101:8, 154:17, 248:14, 250:24, 254:10, 280:20 Keeping - 226:15 Keeps - 289:4 Kept - 141:10, 177:8, 226:6, 291:14 Key - 131:6, 131:7, 133:6, 149:16, 156:17, 156:23, 156:25, 161:5, 161:24, 162:3 Keying - 142:3, 157:22 Keys - 156:25 Kick - 274:17, 274:19 Kicked - 186:21 Kinds - 126:19 Knocking - 187:15, 187:16 Knowing - 21:21, 57:24, 185:4, 228:25 Knowledge - 14:1, 43:8, 44:7, 92:13, 94:2, 127:9, 167:19, 214:2, 226:24, 227:8 Known - 63:22, 82:18, 182:5, 182:7, 182:11, 183:17, 183:20, 184:4, EFTA00062947

185:2, 185:11, 187:21, 194:13, 215:16, 215:19, 220:5, 278:20 Knows - 78:13, 94:21, 95:10, 172:13, 172:15, 182:18, 182:24, 220:9, 223:1 L Lack - 118:13 Landlord - 284:24 Lane - 185:1, 185:17, 187:20, 188:12 Lapse - 51:16 Last - 4:5, 57:16, 112:7, 122:2, 122:3, 122:12, 122:13, 123:12, 125:17, 162:14, 232:1, 257:17, 258:12, 258:23, 259:22, 262:3, 262:16 Late - 141:7, 153:25 Later - 18:25, 38:11, 42:19, 82:3, 173:15, 214:20 Lawyer - 260:7 Lawyers - 259:24, 286:3, 287:17 Lay - 285:13 Laying - 260:6, 286:5 Lead - 161:3 Leading - 200:18 Learn - 43:9, 43:10 Learning - 114:16 Least - 17:7, 28:16, 78:14, 95:11, 112:13, 115:15, 127:18, 147:25. 165:17, 173:5, 184:12, 185:18, 194:12, 200:1, 214:3, 228:22, 245:8, 274:25, 292:17 Leave - 4:25, 11:21, 17:25, 18:4, 23:9, 131:3, 136:17, 139:7, 154:6, 184:20, 186:10, 201:20, 232:21, 279:5 Leaves - 131:3, 187:2, 196:13, 198:23, 220:8 Leaving - 66:14, 67:7, 67:9, 67:12, 102:20, 184:9, 210:20, 270:25, 291:3, 291:11 Legal - 49:10, 201:22, 204:11, 205:22, 239:21, 239:24, 240:8, 240:17, 241:1, 288:2, 288:18 Legit - 131:18 Legitimacy - 34:10 Less - 190:14 Lesser - 278:9 Let - 8:7, 42:9, 141:18, 142:10, 168:1, 176:21, 192:4, 241:1, 242:16, 250:23, 250:24, 253:24, 255:18 Letting - 117:11, 169:3, 228:14, 241:21,241:23, 284:2 Level - 8:23, 229:4, 278:3 Levels - 226:24 Lieutenants' - 88:6, 109:4 Lieutenant's - 83:1 3, 145:24, 148:21, 149:20, 150:19, 150:20, 207:3, 209:23, 210:13, 231:21 Life - 269:8, 269:11, 269:14, 269:17, 269:25, 275:12 Light - 168:18 Liked - 42:11 Likely - 84:19, 115:16, 212:3, 214:4, 215:17, 216:1, 220:1, 221:17, 221:24, 223:6 Linen - 252:20, 254:3, 254:5 Linens - 248:9, 251:14, 253:5, 253:8, 253.12, 254:13 Lines - 42:18 Listed - 54:14, 70:18, 80:25, 84:17, 99:5, 127:17, 146:9, 147:4, 171:7 Listen - 157:4, 217:1, 240:23, 291:3 Little - 105:21, 109:19, 232:2, 258:9, 258:19, 271:10, 285:2, 288:8 Loan - 285:2 Located - 3:13, 26:7, 101:6 Location - 36:18, 282:15 Lock - 22:3 Locked - 195:24, 196:6, 248:6 Locking - 248:3 Logged - 248:24 Logs - 205:5 Long - 9:16, 9:24, 10:9, 194:18, 196:22, 218:17, 223:8, 256:7, 281:9, 281:10, 293:14 Longer - 36:20, 83:19, 109:19, 176:21 Looked - 16:1, 143:1, 144:10, 156:16, 180:21, 285:12 Looks - 117:12, 118:23, 133:16, 142:2, 142:5, 142:17, 149:16, 152:15, 153:10, 156:16, 163:6, 169:6, 171:12, 174:18, 213:21, 221:23, 222:7, 227:14, 253:24 Lose - 135:24, 176:15 Lost - 138:13, 141:5 Lot - 23:22, 23:23, 76:9, 119:3, 176:21, 176:22, 248:8, 260:4, 278:22, 281:8, 281:15, 283:20, 283:24 Lyeson - 4:2, 4:8, 120:3 M Machine - 286:7, 286:9 Machines - 286:19 Magic - 125:13 Mainly - 105:19 Maintained - 70:25, 111:25, 114:15, 218:17 Makes - 35:8, 281:3 Man - 135:10, 135:11, 174:8, 180:23, 209:8, 270:14 Management - 73:2 5 Manager - 236:5, 236:6, 237:8 Managers - 204:12 Mandated - 278:22 Mandatory - 96:7, 98:9 Maneuver -46:2 Manipulated -152: 18 Manually - 162:11 Many - 45:14, 45:19, 46:18, 55:16, 164:22, 245:5, 250:17, 250:19, 251:5, 254:2 Marked - 232:17 Marshal - 134:11 Marshals - 146:22 Matches - 122:5 Mate - 33:8, 33:19, 44:10, 271:25 Matter - 6:16, 7:25, 76:24, 77:3, 77:5, 162:9 Matters - 198:20 Mattress - 37:14 May - 5:17, 18:18, 33:8, 61:22, 183:19, 192:23, 222:5, 225:17, 268:11 Maybe - 20:11, 50:23, 122:3, 161:24, 167:4, 181:16, 186:21. 194:4, 198:2 MCC's -47:22 MDC -282:8 Meaning - 229:20 Means - 115:20, 211:7, 229:12, 229:18, 230:7, 230:17, 231:14, 232:20, 282:6 Medical - 133:5, 136:16, 136:21, 136:22, 205:21, 249:22 Medication - 249:8, 249:11, 249:13, 249:17, 249:22 Medicines - 249:25 Meh - 245:1 Member - 225:14, 275:2 Memo - 61:14, 169:6, 169:11, 221:16, 225:12, 266:13, 277:10, 293:8 Memory - 18:7, 18:17, 61:25 Memos - 280:2 Mentioned - 41:19, 150:8, 152:24, 262:25, 285:7, 290:12 Mess - 134:21, 179:6 Messed - 138:24 Method - 239:18 Might - 22:10, 102:20, 192:4, 192:11, 204:8, 224:13, 242:14, 255:12 Military - 9:22 Mind - 7:3, 40:18, 118:6, 118:8, 183:9, 186:16, 226:15, 232:1, 262:22 Mine - 88:3 Minus - 167:9 Minute - 105:9, 105:10, 192:5, 199:7, 276:8 Minutes - 56:1, 56:2, 56:3, 96:8, 177:11, 192:13 Miss - 166:22, 252:9 Missed - 165:25, 175:13, 193:17 Missing - 165:22 Mix - 97:25 Mixed -120:2 MMC - 75:15 Molestation - 267:1 3 Moment - 113:22, 130:5 Moments - 113:24, 123:2 Monday - 24:9, 57:9, 293:16 Money - 282:5 Monitor - 241:11, 241:14, 254:6, 271:8 Monitored - 240:18, 242:25, 243:3, 243:4, 243:6, 243:8, EFTA00062948