Page 216 United States Department of Justice INTERVIEW OF: GHISLAINE MAXWELL DATE: July 25, 2025 APPEARANCES: For the United States: Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General Diego Pestana, Acting Associate Deputy Attorney General Spencer Horn, FBI Special Agent Mark Beard, Deputy U.S. Marshal For Ghislaine Maxwell: David Markus Leah Saffian Melissa Madrigal

2 (Pages 217 to 220) 2 (Pages 217 to 220) Page 217 1 I N T E R V I E W 2 *** 3 SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is 4 Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is 5 Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in 6 Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a 7 recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell. 9 How are you? 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning. 11 TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer 12 agreement we signed yesterday, I just -- there's a 13 place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's 14 exactly the same document and you'll see your 15 signature. If you can just initial right to the left 16 of -- right here. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? 18 TODD BLANCHE: Right there. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, it's okay. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Markus will -- 21 DAVID MARKUS: Yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: -- initial as well. Thank 23 you. 24 And just to kind of -- before we get 25 going, I'll just say that exactly the same folks that Page 218 1 were here when we met yesterday are here today. So 2 there's no -- I'm not going to do formal 3 introductions, because it's exactly the same group of 4 folks. 5 So we're continuing, Ms. Maxwell, our 6 discussion of yesterday. And the same -- the same 7 kind of rules apply. If you -- we'll take breaks, if 8 you need to talk to Mr. Markus or your lawyers, no -- 9 absolutely no problem. Just let me know. I'll try 10 to ask my questions in a coherent manner, but if 11 there's anything that I say that's confusing, 12 definitely interrupt me. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I will. Thank you. 14 TODD BLANCHE: So I think the easiest 15 thing to start with is, is there anything that we 16 talked about yesterday that -- we're going to go 17 through some more names. I think that we -- that's 18 one of the places that we -- that we interrupted, 19 just because there's a lot of names. 20 But aside from additional names, is there 21 anything that you wanted to kind of follow up on that 22 we talked about yesterday or anything that you 23 thought maybe you remember more of or not? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some more names did 25 come to me in the night, and I did have some Page 219 1 additional memories just for clarity. I believe I 2 said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may have 3 asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I 4 was -- the allegation at least is that I met 5 in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to address 6 that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging 7 because that seems weird under the circumstances. 8 And also -- but I couldn't remember anyone 9 and -- maybe, you know, it's a long period of time. 10 So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I 11 just don't -- I don't remember anybody that I would 12 have. But it's not impossible that I might have 13 asked someone from there. 14 TODD BLANCHE: I don't -- I don't know 15 exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think 16 what you said yesterday is different than what you 17 just said. So, yes. There's -- 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I just wanted 19 to be -- I just didn't want to feel that I had said 20 no to something and that it -- and -- 21 TODD BLANCHE: definitely had 22 has said that she was working at Mar-a-Lago and that 23 you received a treatment of her -- from her at some 24 point, and that you recruited her to meet 25 Mr. Epstein. Page 220 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know, affirmatively, 3 whether that's true or false, or do you just not have 4 a memory either way? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't believe 6 it's true. But I know that I did go to spas and if I 7 met someone, I did ask if they're (indiscernible) -- 8 so I don't -- in the realms of possibility, it could 9 have, but I have no memory of it. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I don't believe 12 that that it's how it went down, but I don't want 13 to -- 14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to talk 15 about -- we talked a little bit yesterday about the 16 financial part of your relationship with Mr. Epstein, 17 kind of being on payroll, for lack of a better word, 18 for many, many years, starting around $25,000 and 19 ending up at around $250,000 per year. 20 There's -- as you know, from your trial, 21 there's banking information that shows a ton of money 22 being sent to you from Mr. Epstein over the years. 23 And I think totaling something like 24 $30 million, something like this. What's -- what's 25 the -- why was that money sent to you? Like, what DOJ REDACTION DOJ REDACTION

3 (Pages 221 to 224) 3 (Pages 221 to 224) Page 221 1 was that for? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I 3 don't -- I dispute the characterization that the 4 money was sent to me. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So tell me what -- I 6 am stuck with the witnesses at trial and what was 7 said at trial on that issue. So what -- what -- what 8 is the -- what do you dispute about that? 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe -- I 10 don't have full recollection. I'm not even sure I 11 ever saw what they accused me of, but my belief is 12 that that money also contained money that was for a 13 helicopter, for instance, that I never owned and I -- 14 was never mine. And -- 15 DAVID MARKUS: In other words, money was 16 sent to you that you then used to purchase things 17 or... 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even 19 sure that I purchased it. So the accounts -- those 20 accounts would be controlled by his accountants. 21 And -- 22 TODD BLANCHE: Even accounts in your name, 23 you're saying, or one of your entities? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even 25 sure I knew of all the entities. I'm not -- I Page 222 1 don't -- it -- maybe I did, contemporaneously, but I 2 simply wouldn't know today. So if there was an 3 entity, let's say account X, if I really set that up 4 myself or whether they said, we're doing this and the 5 money's coming or whatever. But in no substantive 6 way -- I can't think of the right word. 7 DAVID MARKUS: Did you have control 8 over -- 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I had no control, is 10 what I'm saying. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So when -- when the 12 government -- when there was testimony or the 13 government admitted evidence that showed, for 14 example, $5 million in 2002 coming from Epstein to 15 you, okay, what you're saying is that that may -- 16 that happened, but that the you there, wasn't money 17 that -- he wasn't giving you money. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not going to say 19 that for everything, because maybe there were 20 accounts that money was sent to me. But I can say 21 that I know -- like the helicopter, I can 22 definitively say. I'd have to look at all of them to 23 be accurate for you. 24 But to explain how or why I could be 25 receiving monies, and I certainly did. So I'm not Page 223 1 disputing all of it. 2 TODD BLANCHE: But when you said -- let's 3 go back and look. Why would -- why did money have to 4 go into your accounts or account that was controlled 5 by others, but in your name to, like, purchase a 6 helicopter? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, that's a very good 8 question. I don't -- I'm not sure I know the answer 9 to that. I don't. 10 TODD BLANCHE: So let me ask this maybe a 11 different way that gets to the issue, right? So the 12 accusation by the government, based upon the evidence 13 they collected, is that Epstein paid you millions and 14 millions of dollars over the years. 15 And the reason why he paid you that is 16 because you were performing an extraordinary service 17 for him by recruiting young women, many of whom were 18 underage to -- so that he could sexually abuse them. 19 Okay. That's their -- that's their allegation. 20 Okay. 21 From what you said yesterday and from what 22 I've reviewed about you and Mr. Epstein, he paid for 23 a lot in your life. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Your flights, where you Page 224 1 stayed with him. I mean, he didn't expect you to 2 reimburse him along the way for food and, you know, 3 so he took care of you for many years. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is true. 5 TODD BLANCHE: On top of that, he actually 6 paid you a salary as we talked about $25,000 to 7 $250,000. What else did he give you? Or what 8 purchase -- like, was there a time when he gave you a 9 million dollars or $500,000 as a bonus? Or what -- 10 what financial benefit did you receive from him, 11 besides what we've already talked about. We don't 12 have to talk about what, you know, so -- 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I got it. I got it. 14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So my goal, always, 16 was to become independent, independently, financially 17 secure and work for myself. I've never been one to 18 not work. And in that regard, over the course of my 19 friendship and my working relationship with Epstein, 20 I expressed to him my desire to be independent of him 21 everywhere, just to be freestanding. 22 And the -- in -- with that in mind, I 23 wanted to have my own businesses or my own money 24 coming in independent and separate from any salary 25 that I received from him.

4 (Pages 225 to 228) 4 (Pages 225 to 228) Page 225 1 And I needed that for my self-esteem. 2 I've never been -- I mean, obviously salary and it 3 was a very generous one. Please, I'm not belittling 4 the sum of money, because it's huge, but I was 5 brought up to work and I was brought up to be my own, 6 you know. 7 The first time -- so I would either 8 propose businesses to him or he would actually 9 suggest why didn't I do something in the first deal 10 that we did, or the first business that we had or I 11 had and that he financed for me. 12 So he gave -- he loaned me all the money 13 to enable me to do this and then I reaped the 14 profits, which I don't remember now, because we 15 varied over the deals that we did, that I would give 16 him 50 percent or 25. 17 It was sort of -- it was random. 18 TODD BLANCHE: So -- 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I can tell you 20 what it is, so we can compare it. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Go ahead. 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was in Palm 23 Beach actually, and it was in real estate. And they 24 sold what was the grounds originally of an estate 25 called the Phipps Estate. And then they converted Page 226 1 the land that came with that estate into houses. And 2 I did, I think, two or maybe -- I can't remember now, 3 but certainly one and maybe two, possibly three. I 4 don't think so. I think two, that then were flipped 5 and there was a profit. 6 So that would be an example of that. But 7 I didn't have the money, so he lent me the funds to 8 do that business transaction and then I reaped the 9 profits. 10 TODD BLANCHE: And so -- but when -- 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that's millions of 12 dollars. 13 TODD BLANCHE: -- when a financial 14 investigator like, the FBI looks at accounts, they 15 don't know kind of the conversations you're having. 16 They just see the money. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. 18 TODD BLANCHE: So in those cases, when 19 that happened, when he would -- when he financed that 20 with you, would he send money to you? So does that 21 explain some of the money? Like, I guess -- 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe -- I think 23 it does. I think, for instance, there were two 24 Gullwing Mercedes that they did with Mercedes and 25 Aston Martin. You can look it up, I think, if I'm Page 227 1 right. That had the doors that would come up like 2 this -- 3 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There were only a very 5 limited number that were made. So I knew that we 6 could get those and flip them right within 24 hours, 7 for example. 8 Also my -- here's another example of 9 something that you guys wouldn't have known about is 10 I became a banker. I got my Series 63, Series 67 11 banking license and became a broker for like a new 12 (inaudible). And then -- because I was day trading. 13 Everything I had I day traded with -- through an 14 account. 15 And I think I was lucky more than smart, 16 but I made quite a lot of money doing that. And so 17 -- 18 TODD BLANCHE: When was that? Like what 19 -- approximate time -- 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Again, that's in the 21 '90s again. I don't -- oh, wait. I think -- well, 22 you can find it, because it'll be my banking license, 23 right? That'll be something that you can look up, 24 probably. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Page 228 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what whatever that 2 is -- and I just don't remember when that is. I'm 3 sorry. 4 TODD BLANCHE: So -- okay. So -- 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And so for an example, 6 I was -- I was doing really, really, really well. 7 And so he was like, how do you do that? Well, how 8 are you -- what are you -- why are you investing in, 9 I don't know, Apple when nobody liked Apple. This 10 is, you know, before Apple or Microsoft. I didn't 11 know Bill Gates, so this is not related to him. 12 But my family -- 13 DAVID MARKUS: Don't charge her with 14 insider trading. 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Please -- no. I'm not 16 trying to suggest that. Oh, goodness. Please, no. 17 I had no -- 18 DAVID MARKUS: It was just a joke. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 20 TODD BLANCHE: It was a joke. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. No. All right. 22 But my -- going back to my family, my dad 23 had given me an account when I was 12 and I had 24 always an interest in business and finance, not -- 25 not very sophisticated. I'm not suggesting that.

5 (Pages 229 to 232) 5 (Pages 229 to 232) Page 229 1 And so I like to trade and so I did and I 2 did well. And so then I would tell him what I was 3 doing. Now, whether he did or he didn't, he told me 4 he matched me in some other accounts that he had. 5 Because he did a lot of -- he -- my observation, to 6 go back to what he did, I observed him personally and 7 have recollection -- personal recollection of him 8 trading this money, lots. Tens of millions, hundreds 9 of millions of dollars. 10 TODD BLANCHE: That was -- that he was 11 trading for other people -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 13 TODD BLANCHE: -- or that was his own 14 money? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want also to clarify 16 something for you or clarify or underline. Wexner 17 was, in my opinion, his closest friend in this time 18 period from when I met him in '91, right, all the way 19 until-- well, 'til, I don't know. 20 Because I wasn't that friendly with -- 21 well, I did travel with Mr. Wexner, but Epstein told 22 me that Wexner didn't want to be seen too much with 23 me, because of my family problems. You know, whether 24 that was -- 25 TODD BLANCHE: You mean the problems that Page 230 1 your father's company had with -- 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 3 TODD BLANCHE: -- embezzlement or 4 allegations of -- 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Yes. That's 6 what I'm talking about. 7 And now, actually today -- not 8 contemporaneously, but today I don't believe that 9 that's even true. I think it was used as a means to 10 not have me travel with him to Ohio or whatever. It 11 was just a way to park me. 12 And I believe that now, because within the 13 discovery there was a lot of -- well, not a lot, but 14 there was some indications that he would actively 15 tell other people to lie to me or conceal things from 16 me, and that he never loved me and I wasn't his type. 17 That's in the discovery somewhere. 18 TODD BLANCHE: So -- okay. So the 19 government had evidence that, even as late as 2007, 20 he paid you a lot of money. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that? What 22 was the money? 23 TODD BLANCHE: Like several -- millions of 24 millions of dollars in 2007. $7.4 million, I think. 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that for? Page 231 1 Was it -- was that the helicopter? 2 TODD BLANCHE: That was -- that's my 3 question for you. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, sorry. 5 TODD BLANCHE: I don't know. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Sorry. 7 TODD BLANCHE: So in 2007 -- 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that was 9 probably the helicopter. That could have been -- 10 TODD BLANCHE: That was what? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That could have been 12 the helicopter, the Sikorsky. Those big chunks like 13 that, I don't -- I didn't -- I don't personally have 14 any memory of receiving a check from him for 15 $7 million. I just -- I just don't. But I would 16 have to -- I know I -- so the answer to your 17 question, to be precise -- 18 DAVID MARKUS: You would remember if it 19 went into your pocket -- 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would remember if it 21 went -- I would -- he never paid me to -- for 22 services that you just described, $7 million, to -- 23 for any nefarious reason. 24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. I think I understand 25 what you've said about being on the payroll and Page 232 1 helping -- him helping you with businesses, and 2 giving you a lot of life things along the way. You 3 travel with him, you ate with him. He's, you know, 4 but there is the -- these massive amounts of money, 5 one-time payments that I -- 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I don't -- you'd 7 have to trace that, right? So I don't believe that 8 came into my account or I had any control. I have no 9 memory of that. I have no -- no -- 10 TODD BLANCHE: Well, but if there's 11 records that show it coming into your account, it 12 sounds like what you're saying is that not -- putting 13 aside your -- you have no memory of that money being 14 yours. 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 16 TODD BLANCHE: Like you didn't -- that 17 money is not somewhere -- 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I wouldn't be 19 like, oh, yippee, let me go. I got $7 million. I'm 20 going to go buy myself a yacht. No. Or I don't 21 know, something else or move it to some other -- no. 22 I don't think -- I don't think, if you 23 look -- you'll have to check, obviously you will. I 24 don't think you'll find that money moving in any -- 25 to any account, either of mine or it shouldn't show,

6 (Pages 233 to 236) 6 (Pages 233 to 236) Page 233 1 I don't believe anyway. As far as I recollect, it 2 wouldn't show me spending it. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Right. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that make sense? 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, that makes 6 sense. I mean, I think if -- I don't think there's 7 any dispute by anybody, even your lawyers at trial, 8 that -- that that the money went in. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, $7 million in 10 when, what year? 11 TODD BLANCHE: Well, there's several 12 years; in 2007. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And? 14 TODD BLANCHE: 2002, there was $5 million 15 that you were paid in 2002. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, well, I'd have 17 to -- I don't -- I don't remember. But -- okay. So 18 there's -- there would be another large sum, but it 19 wouldn't have come from him later. But it had 20 nothing to do -- 21 TODD BLANCHE: The biggest one was in 22 1999. There's over $18 million. $18.3 million. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know what that 24 is. 25 TODD BLANCHE: So what -- but you -- Page 234 1 you're -- but what you're saying, it sounds like, and 2 if you don't know, we're going to -- we can move on. 3 But when we're talking about $18.3 million 4 in '99, $5 million in -- three years later in 2002, 5 $7.4 million in 2007. That -- those -- that money 6 adds up to around $30 million. 7 You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein. 8 Meaning, that's not money you received for your 9 benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of 11 that was my money. Now, I do -- I just -- like I 12 said, we did do these things -- 13 TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - - with the cars. 15 TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as -- 17 TODD BLANCHE: But -- 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of 19 that money, some of it -- if it moves, some of that 20 may have come from the car or a house that was sold 21 that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. 22 But I don't think this money is mine. 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: But also, the record should 24 reflect, too, that there were times Ghislaine's name 25 was used, for example, Air Ghislaine. Her name was Page 235 1 in the name of the entity. It had nothing to do with 2 her. And if you pull signatures -- 3 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 4 LEAH SAFFIAN: -- there's no evidence for 5 that. 6 TODD BLANCHE: No. My -- what I'm trying 7 to just make sure I -- that I understand, is that the 8 idea that you were paid $30 million between '99 and 9 2007, in order to -- by Mr. Epstein to reward you for 10 recruiting young women. That is in your -- you're 11 saying that is categorically, completely false? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically 13 false, correct. 14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to just -- 15 we went through several individuals yesterday and I 16 want to go through just a couple of more names and 17 ask if you -- if you know them. And if you do know 18 them, how you know them. 19 Do you know Elon Musk? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. 21 TODD BLANCHE: And how did you meet 22 Mr. Musk? 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him in -- I 24 don't remember the year, but it's going to be in 25 2010, '11, something like that, I think, if my memory Page 236 1 serves. 2 And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the 3 co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for -- 4 it was for his birthday. 5 And we were -- or a bunch of us, I don't 6 even remember how many we were, but not many of us. 7 Maybe -- I don't know. If I say 40, I 8 could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't 9 remember. I'm sorry. 10 Went to another friend's island. Somebody 11 called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and -- not with 12 Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's 13 birthday. And we were there together for, I want to 14 say, three or four days, something like that in my 15 memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that. 16 TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time 17 you met him, as far as you know? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember, 19 yes. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet -- did you 21 know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've 23 ever met him. I know that he has a brother and I 24 don't think I met him. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Aside from that time in --

7 (Pages 237 to 240) 7 (Pages 237 to 240) Page 237 1 around 2010, on the island in the Caribbean for a 2 couple days, did you -- have you seen -- do you know 3 Mr. Musk beyond that time? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We met at -- I was at 5 the Oscars and we met at the Oscars. 6 TODD BLANCHE: What year was that, earlier 7 or later? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was post that 9 event, I believe. 10 TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether 11 Mr. Epstein knew Mr. Musk? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe they did. 13 And the only reason I say that is not from my memory, 14 but because I saw -- I think I saw -- my memory is 15 that in discovery, they were communicating on email. 16 TODD BLANCHE: So you have no personal 17 knowledge of that? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: It's just what you've -- 20 what you've seen from the press or from discovery? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I believe his 22 brother as well, actually. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Excuse me? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mr. Musk's brother as 25 well. But I don't -- my -- like I said, my memory is Page 238 1 not -- it's not as good as I would like it to be. 2 And I just want to say that. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Do you -- you mentioned, I 4 think, yesterday in passing -- well, not in passing, 5 but as part of another answer, Andrew Cuomo. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr. Cuomo? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he 9 was married to Kerry. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his 12 brother as well. What's -- he has a brother, right? 13 He's on TV. What's his name? 14 LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris. 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Christopher. 16 LEAH SAFFIAN: Christopher Cuomo. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris. 19 TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV -- the 20 former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris Cuomo? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So -- but I would say 24 just socially, not -- I'm not close friends or 25 anything, but because we -- I was friends with Kerry Page 239 1 and I met him a few times and I certainly met his 2 brother as well a few times. 3 TODD BLANCHE: And the same questions that 4 I asked about Mr. Musk, do you know whether 5 Mr. Epstein knew Andrew Cuomo or Chris Cuomo or 6 Ms. Kennedy, your friend? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think so. 8 TODD BLANCHE: And so you never -- you 9 don't recall any of those three individuals, like, 10 flying on Mr. Epstein's plane -- 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 12 TODD BLANCHE: -- or visiting him in 13 Palm Beach or at the island? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 15 TODD BLANCHE: I think you mentioned 16 former Secretary of State John Kerry yesterday. But 17 if not, do you know Mr. Kerry or no? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have met him, but I 19 don't know if Mr. Epstein ever met him. I met him 20 only -- well, really I can't even probably 21 characterize that as a meeting, but I was very, very 22 involved in the Ocean at Work, through the -- you 23 asked me yesterday about TerraMar. 24 And if I recall right, I met Mr. -- the 25 Secretary that way through the Ocean, but he wouldn't Page 240 1 know who I am, I doubt. I don't think. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether -- 3 well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 5 TODD BLANCHE: And does -- is that through 6 your own life or through Mr. Epstein? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether 9 Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy? 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so. 11 TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we 12 just talked about, so former Secretary of State John 13 Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did -- you don't know whether 14 Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you 15 have no recollection of them flying on his planes-- 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh God, no. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh. But Bobby Kennedy 19 knew him. Bobby, the health -- 20 TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again 21 about Bobby Kennedy. 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew 23 Mr. Epstein. 24 TODD BLANCHE: How do you know that? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because we went on a

8 (Pages 241 to 244) 8 (Pages 241 to 244) Page 241 1 trip together. Was -- we went to -- dinosaur bone 2 hunting in the Dakotas. 3 TODD BLANCHE: When was that, you know, 4 approximately? I'm not looking for an exact date, 5 but when was that? 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was early -- that 7 was in the early -- well, let me back up. I knew 8 Bobby's wife, Mary, pretty well, actually. And 9 before he met her. 10 TODD BLANCHE: And just to help us, I know 11 we're talking about a wide span of time, but what are 12 you -- when are you talking about that you knew 13 Mr. Kennedy's wife before they were married. 14 So when are talking about the -- 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- in 19 -- all 16 right. I guess, let's get my head straight. In -- 17 TODD BLANCHE: Well, would this have been 18 before you met Mr. Epstein -- 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 20 TODD BLANCHE: -- or after? Okay. So -- 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him before I 22 met. 23 TODD BLANCHE: So we're talking about the 24 1980s. 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, yes. Yes. Thank Page 242 1 you. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking 5 about the 1980s. And then -- 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The -- I was the -- I 7 had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had -- 8 his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were 9 all very good friends. 10 TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein -- did 11 Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't -- I don't 13 think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone 14 says everything happened through me. That's just not 15 true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he 16 had friends from London, and those are very -- they 17 were what the people would call "fancy." 18 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy 20 people. And -- but he had the same types of 21 relationships before I met him in America. So when I 22 met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had 23 Henry and he had -- he was --I don't know if then he 24 was at the -- in the Council of Foreign Relations, 25 but he was friends with Ace and, you know, like he Page 243 1 was -- he was well established. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't need me. 4 And he was, you know, his -- Eva was, you know, major 5 model. So he had all these modeling connections and 6 friends in that business, long before I met him. 7 TODD BLANCHE: And so the trip that you 8 went on with Mr. Epstein and Bobby Kennedy, was that 9 in the '90s and 2000s when -- 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was in 11 the -- it would've been in the -- I want to say '93, 12 '94. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So a very long time 14 ago. 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A very, very long time 16 ago. 17 TODD BLANCHE: A few years into the -- 18 your relationship -- a few years into the time that 19 you knew Mr. Epstein? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, I don't 21 want to hold myself to the dates because I really -- 22 TODD BLANCHE: No, no. I'm not holding 23 you to dates. I think -- 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I really don't 25 -- Page 244 1 TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot, 2 because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and 3 '90s and even the 2000s. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to 5 know, I haven't had any -- I don't have anything to 6 review, so I haven't had any ability to -- the short 7 of my legal material, obviously, which you can -- you 8 know I have, because I came with a box worth, but 9 short of that, I have nothing with which to 10 refresh -- or very limited stuff, I should say, I 11 don't want to say nothing -- to refresh my mind. 12 TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you 13 have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy -- of there 14 being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and 15 masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked 16 about? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything 18 inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy. 19 TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he 20 ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you 21 know either way? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. 23 TODD BLANCHE: But not something you 24 remember? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, absolutely

9 (Pages 245 to 248) 9 (Pages 245 to 248) Page 245 1 not. 2 I mean, he -- well, I mean, yesterday, if 3 I didn't make it clear, I will reiterate it. I 4 never, ever saw any man doing something inappropriate 5 with a woman of any age. I never saw inappropriate 6 habits. 7 Now, I'm not -- I'm not going to say hands 8 or -- I mean, that to me is not inappropriate. Now, 9 somebody's inappropriate and mine may be different, 10 but -- 11 TODD BLANCHE: Yep. 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- we're not talking 13 about anything that's -- resembles the accusations 14 that we've discussed here. So that would be an -- a 15 flat no to any man. 16 TODD BLANCHE: Did your or Mr. Epstein's 17 relationship with Mr. -- with Bobby Kennedy continue 18 into the 2000s, as far as you know? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say yes. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Um -- 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, mine, yes. I 22 don't -- 23 TODD BLANCHE: Your's -- with you. Okay. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: With me, for sure. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether Page 246 1 Mr. Epstein and Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, continued 2 to have relationships into the 2000s? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no personal 4 knowledge of that. I mean, I would -- because -- 5 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no personal knowledge 6 is fine. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Another thing is that 8 everyone puts us together like a monolith. 9 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He literally had a 11 separate life from me. I literally had a separate 12 life from him. Now, did they say? Well, of course 13 they did. I'm not-- that's -- I'm not crazy. 14 But he kept a lot to himself and he didn't 15 like to share. He was not a sharer. Well, at least 16 not with me. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Epstein didn't share, 18 you're saying? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not with me, no. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- do you know 21 somebody named Cheryl Mills? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Used to work in the White 24 House as a lawyer? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I do. Yes. Page 247 1 TODD BLANCHE: How do you know Ms. Mills? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Ms. Mills 3 through President Clinton. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember a -- 5 generally, the timeframe that you -- you met her? 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, actually. Hang 7 on. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to remember -- I'm 8 trying to get my dates right. 9 DAVID MARKUS: Approximately. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay. I can't 11 get my dates right. But it's something you probably 12 can -- going to be in the early 2000s. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what I don't 15 recall -- 16 TODD BLANCHE: So -- 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say 2002. 18 I'm going to say 2002, 2003. 19 TODD BLANCHE: So it was after President 20 Clinton left office? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: And so it was in the 2000s. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Definitely. 24 TODD BLANCHE: And how -- what -- how did 25 you meet her? What were the circumstances under Page 248 1 which you met Ms. Mills? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went on a trip with 3 the President to South America. 4 TODD BLANCHE: With which president? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, sorry. 6 President Clinton. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. Just, you 8 know -- 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. 10 TODD BLANCHE: -- just wanted -- it was -- 11 I just wanted to make sure it was clear. 12 Okay. So you went on a trip to -- to 13 where? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Latin America. 15 TODD BLANCHE: And who -- and so Ms. Mills 16 was on that trip? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She was. 18 TODD BLANCHE: And President Clinton was 19 on that trip? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Who else was on that trip? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Doug Band. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Who worked with President 24 Clinton? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.

10 (Pages 249 to 252) 10 (Pages 249 to 252) Page 249 1 TODD BLANCHE: And was Mr. Epstein? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 3 TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of 4 that trip? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, the President 6 had -- I don't know. I mean, I -- the President met 7 with -- I can't even remember every -- all the, I 8 know, presidents and we were in -- 9 TODD BLANCHE: Was this part of President 10 Clinton's work after he left office with the -- with 11 his foundation? Or was -- meaning what -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think the 13 foundation, when did the -- 14 TODD BLANCHE: -- was it something for him 15 or was it -- 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When did the -- I 17 don't remember when the Clinton Global Initiative 18 started. 19 So if you date me -- if you give me that 20 date, I can tell you if it was pre or post. Because 21 without that, I can't pin the reason. 22 DAVID MARKUS: Do you remember what it was 23 for or not? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I don't recall. 25 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Page 250 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I don't -- 2 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's -- don't over 3 think or under think the reason for my questions. 4 I don't -- I don't have any idea why you 5 went on that trip, so I don't know an answer that I'm 6 getting from you. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I'm just trying to 8 be as accurate as possible and give you the 9 information that you seek. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Why would you -- do you 11 remember why you were invited to go? Like were you 12 -- were you friends with somebody? What was your 13 role going on that trip? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role. 15 TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why -- 16 do you remember who invited you to go? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If -- probably 18 Doug Band. 19 TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and -- 21 again, back with Philip Levine. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Got it. And do you know 23 whether he had a relationship with Mr. Epstein? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Who? 25 TODD BLANCHE: Doug. Page 251 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- I don't know. I 2 mean, nothing. He -- I don't believe there was any 3 relationship, other than I helped -- well, without 4 me, I don't think there would've been those flights, 5 because I was the one who asked Epstein to provide 6 the plane for -- well, certainly I remember the one 7 to Africa, of course, that big trip. 8 And I thought it was an honor and a 9 privilege to be part of something so amazing and to 10 have an opportunity to spend time with a man that I 11 found truly extraordinary. 12 And please, I don't mean it in any other 13 way, other than as a former fantastic ex-president. 14 I don't -- 15 TODD BLANCHE: So I was asking around the 16 question, but I'll just ask it: like, were you 17 basically asked to go because you were kind of 18 responsible for the plane? 19 Responsible is the wrong word. They use 20 you -- they were able to use you to make sure that 21 they could -- you helped them get Mr. Epstein's plane 22 for the trip? 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I don't even know 24 if when I was on that -- in fact, I think -- I think, 25 that trip, I'm not even sure that Epstein had met the Page 252 1 President. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think this is -- but 4 if I'm right, and I think I am, I think that trip 5 happened when Epstein and Clinton had never even -- 6 not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone 7 to the White House, but they had not met. 8 I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then 9 because they'd never met and it would be weird. But 10 they met because of me and the plane was because of 11 me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first 12 trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't 13 believe Epstein and he had met. 14 And we're talking a time period when I was 15 trying to -- 16 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- leave. Not very 18 successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my 19 own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and 20 trying to -- all kinds of businesses that I was into. 21 I was trying to start the first telehealth 22 medicine with the Cleveland Clinic. I mean, I'm not 23 going to bore you, because I don't think that's what 24 you guys are interested in, but those were the sorts 25 of things that I was looking for him to finance, so

11 (Pages 253 to 256) 11 (Pages 253 to 256) Page 253 1 that I could stop being, you know, a general manager 2 of a hotel. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- so did you take 4 other trips with some or all of those individuals, 5 kind of without Mr. Epstein in later years? Like, 6 you said that was the first time that you had kind of 7 been on something like that and it was an honor and 8 you were spending time with former President Clinton 9 and others. 10 Were there other -- over the years, did 11 you do that more than once? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 13 TODD BLANCHE: We'll talk about those. 14 Like multiple times, like too many to count or there 15 three or four times. Like how many times? 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A lot. A lot. I went 17 on a lot of trips. Now I don't recall all of them. 18 Not because I'm trying to be evasive or anything, but 19 I just don't remember them all. 20 And after a while, you know, in the 21 incredible job that you have, all of you, that when 22 you're so high pressured and you're spending so much 23 time with extraordinary people like you do with 24 President Trump, it -- it can blur. It just does. 25 And those few things that stand out, Page 254 1 because at the end it's all just extraordinary as 2 cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa, 3 okay. 4 TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but 5 talk -- so don't give me spec- -- 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. 7 TODD BLANCHE: -- I understand you can't 8 give specific numbers. What -- describe more about 9 kind of your, that part of your life and your 10 relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't 11 like relationships. 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right. 13 TODD BLANCHE: And your -- sorry. And 14 your -- 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer. 16 TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your -- 17 what you were doing with those individuals. So when 18 I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former 19 President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with 20 him. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All of them. Yes. 22 There were loads of them. And just all of them, you 23 know the team, I don't need to give you all the 24 names. You have them at your fingertips and I can 25 confirm. If you give me names, I'll say yes, because Page 255 1 they're not all going to pop into my head, so. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Right. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I started 4 spending a lot of time. I don't want to characterize 5 that, but I started spending time with the former 6 President and with Doug and his team. 7 And then it -- I had no purpose, really, 8 other than I had -- I obviously offered something, I 9 don't know, ideas of -- I don't know. 10 Anyway. And he started to travel. I 11 don't remember if the first trip was Africa or how it 12 went, but at some point, I think there was actually 13 two trips, but I'm not sure. So there was to Europe 14 and then to Africa, I think maybe it was all one 15 trip. 16 And at some point, Mr. Epstein said he 17 didn't want to go on the trip and he was going 18 somewhere else and he just left. And I was like, 19 well, okay. And so I ended up doing the whole trip 20 without Mr. Epstein or his plane. 21 TODD BLANCHE: And when you were traveling 22 with them, what were the purposes of the trips? Like 23 is this one -- 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think these were 25 all -- I think actually it was the AIDS, was one of Page 256 1 the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he 2 was working to do that. And there were always a 3 humanitarian side to the trips. 4 And we went to Egypt and to, there was -- 5 oh, yeah. 6 TODD BLANCHE: So there -- so it sounds 7 like you're describing one -- right now, one trip 8 with lots of stops. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I 10 have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I 11 can't remember. 12 TODD BLANCHE: When you -- when you went 13 on these -- 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's 17 the same trip. 18 TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these 19 trips, that -- were you always on Mr. Epstein's 20 plane? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 22 TODD BLANCHE: -- Or did you sometimes 23 accompany them on a different plane? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. Yes. 25 TODD BLANCHE: How many were on

12 (Pages 257 to 260) 12 (Pages 257 to 260) Page 257 1 Mr. Epstein's plane? Again, I'm not holding you to 2 exact, but -- 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was a full, that 4 was packed. Because it was a lot of secret service. 5 It took all the Secret Service as well. 6 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was whatever the 8 detail is for Secret Service, it's a lot. 9 TODD BLANCHE: And on how many occasions, 10 besides the trip you just described, were there other 11 times when they used -- when President Clinton and 12 the folks he was with, used Mr. Epstein's plane? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was -- 14 there was twice, maybe. There was that. But it will 15 reflect on the logs. There won't be anything that's 16 not on the logs that you have already. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Were you, by the way, 18 responsible for the logs in any way? Like, you've 19 seen the logs and they're public and you have them in 20 discovery. 21 But over the years when you were working 22 with or for Mr. Epstein, did you have access to the 23 logs? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was, not. No, 25 never. The pilots -- the logbook was their personal Page 258 1 logbook. 2 I never even saw them have it. I never 3 saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set 4 of logs, the -- the flight manifests. And I never 5 saw those either. I was never -- I was never 6 allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to 7 see. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- so do you 9 know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship 10 with -- with President Clinton, different from the 11 what you just described? So different than being 12 with him, with respect to his foundation or something 13 like this? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. 15 TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that 16 you went on a trip or saw President Clinton? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in -- was late 18 2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something 19 in -- it was in Los Angeles. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of 21 that meeting? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was hosting 23 something or he was at an event and I was in L.A. and 24 I had dinner with him. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Had -- did you ever meet Page 259 1 Secretary Clinton, Hillary Clinton? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 3 TODD BLANCHE: When did you meet her? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say -- 5 again, please don't hold me to it, but I want to say 6 that it was on a flight that came from the island 7 from -- not from the island, from the Nantucket or -- 8 or Martha's Vineyard back to New York, is what I 9 think. I might be wrong. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So some -- an East 11 Coast island, like Nantucket -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 13 TODD BLANCHE: -- Or something like this? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. No, -- the 15 Clint- -- the ex-president never came to the island. 16 TODD BLANCHE: And did you -- is that the 17 only time that you met Hillary Clinton? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I went to the 19 house in Chappaqua a few times. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And why did you go to the 21 house? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was invited. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Just to see 24 President Clinton or Hillary Clinton or both or -- 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I mean, as a Page 260 1 friend, not for -- I don't -- there was no -- I don't 2 remember any reason, either was somehow I 3 communicated that was in coming, driving back past 4 Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in. 5 And it's -- I know it sounds a little 6 flippant, but it could -- it could have even 7 something as -- 8 TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether 9 Mr. Epstein had -- knew or had any sort of visit 10 dealings or -- associated with Hillary Clinton? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. 12 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- did you ever see 13 them together? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- do you know whether 16 Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with 17 the Clintons? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would -- well, I'm 19 not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite -- I don't 20 know the answer to that strictly, because, I was -- I 21 was part of the beginning process of the Clinton 22 Global Initiative. 23 And that was something that I helped with 24 and that was me, and Epstein may have helped me help 25 them. And in that context, he may well have involved

13 (Pages 261 to 264) 13 (Pages 261 to 264) Page 261 1 himself, but only in the context of something that I 2 was trying to do. 3 TODD BLANCHE: So when you say "involved 4 himself," meaning like, give money to the Clinton 5 Global Initiative or something like this? 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so there's that. 7 I think he did do that. And that, I believe, the 8 money that he may have given could have been 9 independent of me. But I think it's just easier if I 10 just tell you how it happened, rather than -- 11 otherwise it sounds all odd and funky. I went to 12 Davos with a former president and I -- have you been 13 to Davos? 14 TODD BLANCHE: In what? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Have you been to 16 Davos? 17 TODD BLANCHE: I have not. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Well, you know, 19 it's a -- you know what it is, right? Okay. So -- 20 and I was -- I thought the former president should 21 have his own Davos, because it would be -- and they 22 had -- it turned out, that they had been thinking 23 about it anyway. 24 And so we were talking about it and, you 25 know, it's a very heavy lift to get something like Page 262 1 that to go. And I was friendly with one of the 2 people who had -- I don't know if he was at the 3 beginning of Davos or -- but he was running Davos. 4 It was just -- I don't know, hard to 5 describe his actual role at Davos and had 6 conversations with him about what did he think, you 7 know? Oh, just because I was having dinner with him 8 about if Clinton could get something like that to go, 9 what was his thoughts? 10 And he was very, very enthusiastic. I 11 mean, he was like, that's just an incredible idea. 12 So I put them together. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Who -- what's that person's 14 name? Do you remember? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I knew you were going 16 to ask me. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can -- I can -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: Just -- you said -- I 20 didn't know if you knew his -- if you remember his 21 name. 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do know. I do, but 23 I just -- 24 TODD BLANCHE: Can't remember his name. 25 Okay. Page 263 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It will come to me. 2 It may come to me tomorrow, but eventually these 3 things, like, surface from -- like in the middle of 4 the night, I was scribbling names -- 5 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- that I couldn't 7 remember from yesterday. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But his name will come 10 to me, and if not, we can find it. 11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you -- when 12 the -- just still stay -- staying on your 13 relationship with -- sorry, the -- your association 14 with the Clintons. 15 You were part of the ramp up or the 16 startup of the Clinton Global Initiative -- 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was. 18 TODD BLANCHE: -- and helping them in 19 supporting that effort. 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- I would say very 21 central to that, yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: And Mr. Epstein, was he 23 part of the work around that or just in support of 24 you? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He supported me to Page 264 1 help them, but then I think he may have tried to use 2 that to insert himself in some way, that would not 3 have surprised me at all. 4 And I know that he was annoying, in terms 5 that I could catch him on the phone and he wouldn't 6 always agree with what I wanted to do. And I was 7 like, it's not your idea. I don't really care what 8 you think, but that didn't go over so well. 9 TODD BLANCHE: And -- 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, I just want to 11 say, it wasn't my idea for his CGI. 12 TODD BLANCHE: Wasn't your -- say it 13 again. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not my idea. 15 They had had that idea before. I just helped bring 16 key personnel to -- 17 TODD BLANCHE: You're saying the idea of 18 President Clinton kind of having his own Davos 19 like -- 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not -- I'm not 21 owning. I didn't -- that's not -- 22 TODD BLANCHE: Understood. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want anyone -- 24 I don't try to elevate myself in any form of 25 importance here.

14 (Pages 265 to 268) 14 (Pages 265 to 268) Page 265 1 TODD BLANCHE: No, I understand. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Did you go to Davos with 4 President Clinton more than once or just once? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't remember. 6 Once for sure. And I think maybe twice, but I don't 7 remember. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- and you're not, I 9 think you said, you don't -- you're not aware of 10 President Clinton ever going to the island? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He never. Absolutely 12 never went. And I can be sure of that because 13 there's no way he would've gone -- I don't believe 14 there's any way that he would've gone to the island, 15 had I not been there. Because I don't believe he had 16 an independent friendship, if you will, with Epstein. 17 Did they speak? Did he go? Yes, but 18 that's very different from going to spend time on an 19 island. 20 And plus, the story as told is so patently 21 absurd that I flew him in the helicopter. I am a 22 helicopter pilot, that is true. But the notion of me 23 flying an ex-president in a machine. That would 24 terrify me. I would never even take that 25 responsibility. Can you imagine? Yeah, no. I'm not Page 266 1 -- I'm -- no. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- did you ever go with 3 President Clinton to any of Epstein -- Mr. Epstein's 4 properties? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- 6 TODD BLANCHE: -- so like New Mexico, 7 Palm Beach, or in New York? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no memory of 9 him in any of those places. 10 TODD BLANCHE: When you were in London 11 with President Clinton, did you -- did you ever go to 12 your -- to your flat with him? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did. 14 I don't -- I don't think so, because this, like, it's 15 like -- he wouldn't even -- he wouldn't even be able 16 to carry all his Secret Service with him. I don't 17 think so, no. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you know -- we 19 talked a little about the Duchess of York, about 20 Sarah Ferguson yesterday. 21 Did -- when's the -- when the last time 22 you, like -- when's the last time you, you saw her? 23 Like, were you -- were you -- do you have a -- were 24 you with her or hang out with her, socializing with 25 her, in the '90s, 2000s? Both? Page 267 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She's -- well, I had 2 a -- I don't know if she liked me very much. I think 3 my friendship with her ex-husband -- well, sometimes 4 she really did like me and sometimes she didn't. So 5 maybe a frenemy, I don't know. 6 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- it was always 8 friendly when we were together, but I think that 9 there was some latent hostility. And I -- 10 TODD BLANCHE: Is that something you've 11 heard since everything came out or along the way you 12 felt that way? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, that's how I felt. 14 That -- that is a characterization of myself. That's 15 how I felt about her. I would never -- I was always 16 friendly with her. I mean, she's -- I mean, I've 17 seen her many, many times and she's also super, super 18 close with other people I'm very good friends with in 19 England. I think that -- I think that she liked 20 Mr. Epstein. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My female intuition. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 24 LEAH SAFFIAN: Discovery. 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh. Page 268 1 LEAH SUFFIAN: The letter. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember it. 3 TODD BLANCHE: It's okay. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I don't -- it's 5 possible that there's things -- well, I know -- it's 6 not possible. I know that there is discovery, but I 7 don't recall. But I think she had a thing for him. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- there's some actors 9 or some folks from Hollywood that I want to ask you 10 about, just to understand whether you knew them or 11 Mr. Epstein knew them. Chris Tucker? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 13 TODD BLANCHE: How did you know 14 Mr. Tucker? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think only from that 16 flight to Africa. But I do think that they met -- 17 TODD BLANCHE: You say that flight to 18 Africa, the one we were just talking about with -- 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 20 TODD BLANCHE: -- President Clinton? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Sorry. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Sorry, go ahead. Yep. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I also think that 24 they kept a little bit in touch and I think we met, 25 or I have a memory of him maybe in L.A., I don't

15 (Pages 269 to 272) 15 (Pages 269 to 272) Page 269 1 know. I think they sort of loosely stayed in touch. 2 I wouldn't -- I don't think it -- I don't know. I 3 don't know how to say that. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Tucker 5 besides that flight? 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 7 TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether -- 8 when you say you think that they kept in touch, you 9 mean you think that Mr. Epstein and Mr. Tucker -- 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They may have. I 11 didn't, but he might have. I'm not sure. 12 TODD BLANCHE: Kevin Spacey? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I know him also from 14 that same flight. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Aside from that flight, do 16 you know him from any other thing? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Naomi Campbell? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I do know Naomi, 20 and I knew her before I met Mr. Epstein and Mr. -- 21 former President Clinton. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether 23 Mr. Epstein separately knew Ms. Campbell? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think she -- he 25 probably met her through me, that I imagine. Page 270 1 TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three, 2 Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and Ms. Campbell, did they 3 ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the 4 island or New Mexico? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker -- 6 well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey. 7 Naomi Campbell may have. 8 TODD BLANCHE: To where? 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone -- 10 well, she certainly -- well, I believe she visited 11 him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to 12 the island and she may have gone to see his house in 13 New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as 14 well, maybe. They were friends or friendly. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Were you -- what you just 16 said "she may have," were you on those trips? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any 18 independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't 19 think so. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her relationship, her 22 friendship, her -- I think you're making me use your 23 word. Her -- her friendship, whatever, with 24 Mr. Epstein was independent of me. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. But you also had a Page 271 1 separate friendship with her before you met 2 Mr. Epstein? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Larry Summers, the 5 former Secretary of the Treasury. 6 Do you know that person? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did, yes. 8 TODD BLANCHE: How? 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Mr. Summers 10 through Mr. Epstein. 11 TODD BLANCHE: And the same question, just 12 generally time period, are you talking about early 13 2000s, '90s, a little after that? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I honestly really 15 don't know. 16 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did want to say 18 something. I forgot that there was -- yesterday. 19 You asked me about Mr. Epstein's properties. He had 20 a rental in Boston as well, but it -- not for very 21 long, but it was another place that I had to put 22 together. And I only went with him once and he would 23 go there independently of me. No, I would not go 24 with him. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Was that in the '90s? Page 272 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes. 2 TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know 3 why -- do you know what his relationship was with 4 Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you 5 know? 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to 7 Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they 8 were friends. They were friendly. 9 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether 10 Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to 11 any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I 13 don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights. 14 I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went -- 15 I traveled so, so much that I really -- the flights 16 just blur. 17 TODD BLANCHE: I understand. 18 George Soros? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew 20 him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't 21 think. 22 TODD BLANCHE: How did you know Mr. Soros? 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was friends with his 24 kids. 25 TODD BLANCHE: What -- which kids?

16 (Pages 273 to 276) 16 (Pages 273 to 276) Page 273 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Jon and -- I can't 2 think of his other child. I can't think of -- I 3 mean, I've lost his name. 4 LEAH SAFFIAN: Alexander. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Who? 6 LEAH SAFFIAN: Alexander. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him, but just 8 socially. He may not remember even having met me. I 9 was excited to meet him. 10 TODD BLANCHE: When are you thinking -- 11 when would you have met him? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If I met him it -- I 13 think it was either at an event or at his kids -- it 14 wouldn't have been at his house. An event, I 15 think -- or I think actually, no, in the Hamptons I 16 met him. He was staying at somebody's house. If -- 17 if my memory serves. 18 TODD BLANCHE: And what was your 19 relationship? How did you know his kids? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was out and about in 21 New York a lot. 22 TODD BLANCHE: So just socially? 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Just socially, yes. 24 And -- yeah, just socially, I think. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- do you know Page 274 1 whether Mr. Soros or his kids ever traveled on 2 Mr. Epstein's planes? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think so. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Ever visit either the 5 island or New Mexico or -- 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I don't think so. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Paris? No? 8 Okay. So I -- we tried to -- to identify 9 names that have come up, either publicly or in -- in 10 other lawsuits. Are there any names that you -- that 11 come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a 12 lot of names. A lot of names. 13 Are there some folks that you think we've 14 forgotten to ask you about? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me 16 about names and I have some names, and I just want to 17 give you some context for the names as well. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Sure. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about 20 Elizabeth Johnson yesterday. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She had a boyfriend 23 and he was Frederic Fekkai, the hairdresser. And he 24 and Epstein were friendly, very friendly. 25 TODD BLANCHE: And then what time period Page 275 1 are you talking about? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well -- 3 TODD BLANCHE: Like '90s, or 2000s, or 4 both? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the 2000s, 6 actually, for that. You can date that because it was 7 from when he -- I think he probably knew Frederic 8 before he dated Elizabeth. But -- 9 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say they were 10 very friendly, did they go -- did they travel 11 together? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if they 13 traveled together, I mean, Epstein didn't go out very 14 much or -- I mean, he did go out, but not -- and 15 sometimes if he did, I think he would go out and 16 maybe see Fred- -- Frederic. 17 And then there was -- I mean, he had a 18 bunch of guys that he would -- I would know that he 19 would see or meet, but he really -- I guess now -- so 20 he had new friends. I -- I don't know, but -- 21 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What other names? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay, so Henry 23 Jarecki, who had an island near his. Henry was a 24 financier who was the guy who cornered the silver 25 market back in the day. Page 276 1 TODD BLANCHE: He had an island in the 2 Caribbean -- in the Caribbean near Mr. Epstein? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. In the British 4 Virgin Islands. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there was 7 Branson's island there. Now I know that there's an 8 allegation that they met. I -- I think -- I think I 9 remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with 10 Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I 11 don't -- I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and 12 him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with 13 him. 14 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether 15 Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island? 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not 17 there. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So -- but it's 20 possible, so -- 21 TODD BLANCHE: Understood. 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- I wanted to ... 23 TODD BLANCHE: Who else? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Marvin Minsky. He had 25 a group of scientists that he was very, very friendly

17 (Pages 277 to 280) 17 (Pages 277 to 280) Page 277 1 with, all centered around Harvard. So I remember 2 him. 3 Martin Nowak, who's a mathematician. 4 Stephen Jay Gould. I don't know if Stephen Jay Gould 5 was -- came through the Harvard angle, but I know 6 that there was a -- he would -- excuse me, Epstein 7 would have dinners at the house that I was tasked to 8 organize and the scientists were a very major 9 component of that. 10 They weren't social dinners as much as 11 they were scientific. He would discuss whatever he 12 would discuss. But if you were in the area of brain 13 cognition or -- he would invite them to the house and 14 they would come, all of them. All -- any name you 15 can name, they would be there. 16 TODD BLANCHE: So let's talk about that 17 top -- that relation -- those -- those associations 18 or relationships he had with the mathematicians or -- 19 and with Harvard, and I think with MIT, to some 20 extent as well. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Official 22 (indiscernible) MIT too, yeah. 23 TODD BLANCHE: What -- from what you 24 observed, what's the reason behind him having -- 25 developing those ties with Harvard, with MIT, and Page 278 1 with certain professors and others associated with 2 those institutions? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He really was 4 profoundly interested in that area of science and in 5 the brain, and in -- I mean, if you were in -- 6 Stephen Jay Gould or the major scientist on 7 happiness, I mean, it -- it came, I believe, from a 8 genuine area of interest, not from anything ... 9 TODD BLANCHE: And how did he -- how did 10 he become friends with them? How -- how was he able 11 to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to 12 the university and then they were kind of -- 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain -- 14 TODD BLANCHE: -- it was mandatory fun for 15 them or did he have relations with them where he 16 would, you know -- 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the 18 chicken -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: -- host them or -- 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken 21 or the egg came first. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But -- but when I met 24 him first, I mean, he was already doing a lot of this 25 stuff. This is not -- I -- I've read, so this is why Page 279 1 I'm saying this. I was not responsible for these -- 2 for this area of interest. I mean, I certainly -- 3 sorry, just to bounce a second before it slips my 4 mind and I leave something out. 5 There was an institute in New Mexico 6 called -- anyone? The institute of -- it's very 7 famous. We're not talking to the Alamos. 8 Anyway, all right. There's a very famous 9 institute in New Mexico, so you can look it up. 10 You'll -- it'll come to you at the minute you put it 11 in your computer. 12 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there had some of 14 the biggest brains ever. Those -- that relationship 15 came through me, so I -- that's me. And that is 16 because my father was -- one of the major scientific 17 hit up my family fortune, when I had one, came from 18 scientific publishing. 19 And when it started from the thing that 20 you were asking me yesterday, my father was in the 21 Second World War, I told you, and he won the military 22 cross, and then he actually did become what was part 23 of intelligence back in the war. And his job was to 24 interrogate German scientists and prisoners of war. 25 And then that parleyed into business with Page 280 1 Springer-Verlag and then into Pergamon Press, which 2 was the scientific journals business. And he had an 3 interest -- he believed that it's -- knowledge is 4 what would prevent war. 5 And the biggest scientific discoveries -- 6 well, not all of them, but many of them are coming 7 from the Eastern block and that's how we have the 8 relationship with Santa Fe Institute. 9 And Murray Gell-Mann, specifically. And I 10 introduced Epstein to Murray Gell-Mann. Sorry, to go 11 off on a tangent. 12 TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe 13 Institute? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And 15 Murray Gell-Mann was there, and Murray Gell-Mann and 16 Epstein got along very, very well. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he was the man of 19 the (unintelligible). Sorry. 20 TODD BLANCHE: So do you know whether -- 21 so while you -- when you meet Mr. Epstein in the 22 early '90s continuing on, so not what he had done 23 before, did he -- why do you think, from what you saw 24 or what you heard, he had the relationship or wanted 25 to have the relationships that he had with Harvard

18 (Pages 281 to 284) 18 (Pages 281 to 284) Page 281 1 and with -- and with MIT? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think that that 3 may have come with Wexner. I'm not sure, but that's 4 something that I think that Wexner maybe had a 5 relationship with Harvard, and that he used that 6 relationship to, I believe, he funded a lot. 7 And if he didn't, that his clients of 8 which Wexner obviously was one, would fund. And he 9 would -- he would then make -- he would arrange the 10 fund or -- 11 TODD BLANCHE: Did -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- organize the fund, 13 or I don't know. 14 TODD BLANCHE: I'm going to take -- we'll 15 take a break in a -- in a minute, but just to kind of 16 set us up for what we're going to talk about next. 17 Mr. Ep- -- we talked yesterday morning 18 about Mr. Epstein's kind of business and how he had 19 money. Did he seem to live beyond his means, as far 20 as what he was making? 21 So did you ever get the sense while you 22 were with him, that it was suspicious or curious how 23 he was able to have the funds to, you know, buy, you 24 know, two planes, you know, an island, and 25 New Mexico, you know, the ranch, almost -- almost Page 282 1 unlimited funds? 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You said it perfectly. 3 I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any 4 reason to believe that it came from anything 5 nefarious. 6 I saw him work. I never saw him really do 7 anything, other than be on the phone, there's that, 8 and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of 9 accounts. 10 And he dealt with pretty much every 11 financier that you could care to mention. And if I 12 could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell 13 you which ones you -- I just don't remember them all. 14 But in every bank, Goldman, Lehman, all of 15 them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major 16 businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of 17 Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an 18 extraordinary list of people. It just is. 19 And then he -- you asked me about his, but 20 I -- so I thought about it last night, how to try and 21 explain what it was and I think the best thing is to 22 focus only on Wexner's business. 23 So I was present for some of their 24 meetings in some of their business, and I listened. 25 And so things that I personally recollect, and I know Page 283 1 I heard, was that he would -- when I told you 2 yesterday, I think, that he would, no detail was too 3 small, so he would do the contracts with the staff, I 4 think, and I saw that myself. 5 And he also organized all the trusts for 6 all the children, so if Wexner had kids -- and 7 Wexner -- I don't know if he did, he did have 8 children. So every time there was a child, he would 9 create a trust for that child. 10 And I don't -- these were complex 11 financial structures that would contain stocks of the 12 various businesses. He restructured, when I was 13 there, Wexner's business in its entirety, as I 14 recollect. 15 And then not only that, but there were 16 business interests, so Wexner owned or build, or 17 designed, or I don't quite know how to characterize 18 it, but New Albany, which is a center outside of 19 Ohio, Columbus, Ohio, specifically. 20 And he built -- I remember this 21 conversation, he built himself a very large house, 22 like truly enormous and it's one of the biggest 23 private homes I've ever been to. 24 And he built all the houses around him, 25 and I'm like, this is so random, why would you do Page 284 1 that? And he said to me, well, because I want to 2 make sure that the people around me are my friends -- 3 I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I 4 was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been 5 around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like 6 -- at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get 7 it, and I don't. And so that's what he did. 8 But Epstein ran New Albany, which included 9 a country club and a golf club and a -- I mean, gosh, 10 your boss is one of the all-time great, you know, 11 businessmen in this area. You know what that is. 12 And he certainly does. 13 So there'd be that, and there was a 14 business business that Epstein -- well, he told me he 15 owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure, 16 because I don't know, but it's a sports thing. 17 Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought 18 about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets. 19 Riddell's? 20 LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Riddell. Yeah, 22 Riddell's. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Now, how he owned 25 that -- well, he told me he owned it, but how he

19 (Pages 285 to 288) 19 (Pages 285 to 288) Page 285 1 owned that, I -- but that was before I think I came 2 in and he had it, or he said he did. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Got it. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had other 5 businesses. He had -- I know this notion that he did 6 nothing and he just was a grifter and whatnot. 7 Okay. I'm not going to say that's not 8 true, but it's not what I saw and it's not what I 9 believe is true. Not because it couldn't have been 10 that he didn't grift or whatever the word is off -- 11 off people, but I saw where I thought looked like 12 real work. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, why don't we take 14 a -- take a break. Okay. 15 DAVID MARKUS: Yeah. Thank you. 16 SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is now 17 10:35 and we'll take a break. 18 (Off the record at 10:35 a.m.) 19 SPENCER HORN: We are resuming from break. 20 The time is 10:49 on Friday, July 25th. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. So we've 22 talked around this issue, but -- talked about it a 23 little bit. I want to spend the next hour or so or 24 however long it takes. 25 When you -- when we -- I want to talk, Page 286 1 focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his 2 criminal conduct with respect to women. 3 Do you -- you said yesterday a couple 4 times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think 5 that there was things that he did that you didn't 6 know about, and that he kept from you or that you 7 didn't see. 8 What did you see? So you said yesterday, 9 and I'm not -- I'm not trying to put words in your 10 mouth, but at some point he was getting massages 11 seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day. 12 Women have said that -- that were there -- that say 13 they were there giving him massages, said that those 14 included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you 15 define that in the broadest sense, not just a 16 traditional massage, regularly. 17 So what do you -- what did you see and 18 hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what 19 you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been 20 through what you've been through and heard people say 21 what they've said, and read what they read, what do 22 you -- where does that leave you in your mind with 23 what happened? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I saw 25 Epstein with women. I mean, what I mean by that is Page 287 1 he would have women around him, or women on the 2 plane, or women in his house, or -- that's how I'm 3 explaining that. 4 Those women were very interested. What -- 5 my characterization of the interest -- the 6 relationships between all women that I saw with him 7 and him, was characterized by -- excuse me, their 8 interest in him as I would see it. 9 And by that, I mean, I never saw anybody 10 who didn't want to be with him and be with him, maybe 11 socially or whatever. I never saw anybody, not under 12 any form of duress in any type of situation where 13 they were, as I would characterize it, looking 14 uncomfortable or in any way distressed. 15 In the entire time I was with him or 16 traveled with him, I never saw that. So any time I 17 saw anybody with him, they were happy to be with him. 18 He would ask people all the time, whoever you were, 19 to massage his feet. 20 It just was -- he'd be sitting there, and 21 he'd have somebody massage his feet, or squeeze his 22 shoulders, or -- I saw that a lot. It was an 23 ubiquitous interaction, if you will. 24 So I did see that. I saw physicality, but 25 not anything that was -- I don't know how to Page 288 1 characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I 2 suppose, to define that. So I never saw an 3 aggressive move. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Well -- 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything 6 that was -- 7 TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I 9 never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if 10 he -- well, maybe they didn't -- I never saw anything 11 that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never 12 saw what I would characterize as anything that was 13 unconsensual. 14 TODD BLANCHE: Did you see -- did you see 15 him either receiving or participating in sexual 16 conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw 17 something nonconsensual. 18 Did you see him engage in sexual conduct 19 during massages? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define 21 sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have 22 been, you know, less than normally clad for massage, 23 but especially on the island where they would be in a 24 bikini or possibly even topless, yeah, I did see 25 that. So you would --

20 (Pages 289 to 292) 20 (Pages 289 to 292) Page 289 1 TODD BLANCHE: But what about in -- so -- 2 yes, I agree, that's one area. Like -- so women who 3 were either not clothed or topless with just a bottom 4 on. But beyond that, did you see as part of that him 5 touching them? 6 And again, I'm not talking about consent 7 or not consent or age or -- you know, I'm saying like 8 there's multiple, multiple, you know, dozens and 9 dozens of women who have said that they were -- that 10 they engaged in sexual contact. And I agree, there's 11 a broad range of what that can -- how that can be 12 defined, but defining it in the broadest of terms. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So him being physical 14 with women? I did see that, but nothing that was not 15 consensual. And to address the issue of the large 16 number of women who today say that he was 17 non-consensual coercive with them. I'm not sure. 18 I -- in my mind I sort of have to characterize the 19 two distinct areas. There's one where is the women 20 who are not of age. Therefore, anything with them is 21 immediately unconsensual. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Correct, yeah. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So let's start -- I 24 want to define anyone who's underage versus anybody 25 who's over age, because I do think that there's a Page 290 1 very significant differential between the two. 2 TODD BLANCHE: So does the law. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So -- 4 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that. 6 TODD BLANCHE: No, no. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be 8 smart. 9 TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I 10 agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to 12 deal with the thing, which is really why we're here. 13 I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the 14 other, but I just -- 15 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- want to make a 17 distinction with underage situation, because there's 18 nothing about that that's right. 19 I never saw anything with anybody who was 20 certainly to be categorical in my -- from my trial. 21 Let's deal with that, because that's 22 something that I can say in -- I never saw that with 23 them at all. And I would say that as -- as 24 described, anyway, in my trial did not happen as 25 described. Page 291 1 I'm not saying that Mr. Epstein did not do 2 those things. I'm not casting those -- I'm not going 3 to say -- I don't feel comfortable saying that today, 4 given what I now know to be true. So I am not here 5 to defend him. 6 But what I can say is that I did not 7 participate in that activity. And -- 8 TODD BLANCHE: So let's divide this into 9 two areas. Maybe there's more, but we'll start with 10 two areas. One is there was testimony and there's 11 certainly been depositions and public statements, 12 that some of these young women had conversations with 13 you about their age. 14 So, for example, conversations about the 15 fact that they were in high school or conversations 16 about the fact that they wanted to go to college one 17 day, which would necessarily mean -- well, not 18 necessarily, but would be more likely to mean that 19 they were in high school when they talked to you 20 about that. 21 And so, were there times -- were there 22 women that you knew were underage? And I say that 23 because that's different than whether they were 24 sexually abused in any way by Mr. Epstein, just 25 merely their age and going to give him a massage? Page 292 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I never knew that 2 and I can categorically state that had any child said 3 to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17, 4 because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said 5 they were 17, I don't -- but I've read so much that 6 that did happen. 7 I mean, I just -- I had no -- I would 8 never have permitted such a thing, I would not -- I 9 don't even know what I would have done. 10 TODD BLANCHE: So some of the -- I think 11 even someone who testified at trial, but certainly 12 have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when 13 she was introduced to Mr. Epstein. 14 In -- in your mind today, you don't -- you 15 kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that, 16 meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman 17 coming to give him a massage? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're 19 talking about Jane, and I'm -- 20 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- very happy to 22 address that. I actually don't think that the 23 testimony is correct. I don't believe -- 24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, look, I don't -- 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No, no, I'm

21 (Pages 293 to 296) 21 (Pages 293 to 296) Page 293 1 not -- I just wanted to tell you how -- 2 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to 3 get into -- 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm not -- 5 TODD BLANCHE: -- he said, she said. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- no, no. Absolutely 7 not. I'm not -- I don't want to go there either. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not going to do 10 that. But I believe that what took place, with a lot 11 of these people, is that there was a slide, right? 12 So there was a zone and I -- he did meet 13 her and I did meet her, and I knew that she was a 14 young child and I knew that she was not an adult, 15 because -- but I don't believe he met her 'til she 16 was 16. 17 So I'm not -- I'm not doing a he said, she 18 said, I'm not doing that, because nobody will. 19 That's not what we're here for. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But he didn't meet her 22 'til she was 16, and the entire testimony of the 14, 23 15, and 16-year-old is, therefore, not accurate. 24 Did I meet her when she was 16 with her 25 mother? I absolutely did. And did I know that she Page 294 1 was young? I absolutely did. 2 But everything that took place that was 3 alleged at trial at the 14, and 15, and 16, is not 4 accurate. And -- I don't -- 5 TODD BLANCHE: There's testimony or 6 there's -- and again, I'm using testimony in the 7 broadest sense. Some of this is just public 8 statements or something that's come out in civil 9 lawsuits about you and Mr. Epstein giving, like an 10 18 -- you're turning 18 birthday card to somebody, 11 which again, if true would, by definition mean you 12 knew that she was under 18. 13 Do you recall doing that? 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. I mean, no 15 memory of that at all. And I believe that would be 16 the person that called herself Kate has now announced 17 herself in her own podcast for who she really is. 18 Her name is . So I did not meet 19 until actually, she was either 20 or 21. So 20 it would be very hard for me to have given her an 18 21 birthday card. And the testimony -- there's also -- 22 TODD BLANCHE: Do you accept -- 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- that slid back. 24 TODD BLANCHE: -- do you accept that at 25 some point, and we talked about this yesterday about Page 295 1 how Mr. Epstein changed, but at some point, 2 Mr. Epstein definitely preferred younger women? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I accept. 4 TODD BLANCHE: And I think you said 5 yesterday, but say it again since we're talking about 6 it. Is that something that you, in your mind, one of 7 the areas where he changed from when you first met 8 him until later? 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I -- when -- I just 10 also want it to be clear, I never understood that 11 change to encompass children. I did see from when I 12 met him, he was involved or -- involved or friends 13 with or whatever, however you want to characterize 14 it, with women who were in their 20s. And then the 15 slide to, you know, 18 or younger looking women. But 16 I never considered that this would encompass criminal 17 behavior. It never ... 18 TODD BLANCHE: And so when you read, I 19 guess, two different times, right? One was during 20 the Florida investigation, when -- 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: -- there were eventually 23 public statements from some of these now women who 24 testified about what they did with Mr. Epstein when 25 they were under 18. Page 296 1 At that point, did you realize or did you 2 think to yourself, this happened or this could have 3 happened, I missed it, or were you at that point 4 still in the mindset that they were either not 5 telling the truth or were not remembering what 6 happened the way that -- accurately? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's a very fair 8 question. So I think that my view of this at that 9 time, to call it as contemporaneously as it did, 10 because I don't think that stuff came out in public, 11 right? I mean, I may have read things, but I 12 don't -- my first real --- 13 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's fair. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- memory of that is 15 at the trial. But my viewpoint, if you will, was set 16 from the minute that lied in her civil 17 deposition. And I could never recover from that, 18 because -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: What are you -- what are 20 you -- which lie, what are you referring to? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her entire 22 characterization -- 23 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- of -- no, I don't 25 remember how she came and whether I did, -- DOJ REDACTION DOJ REDACTION DOJ REDACTION

22 (Pages 297 to 300) 22 (Pages 297 to 300) Page 297 1 TODD BLANCHE: I see. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- but I'm talking 3 about the first time she came to Epstein's house, 4 which I knew -- 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- to be false. So 7 from that first lie of that description, I could 8 never recover from that. 9 TODD BLANCHE: I understand. Okay. So -- 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that tainted -- 11 sorry. Just so that we clear it, tainted, then, the 12 testimony of everybody else that I saw that came post 13 that, because I had my own personal experience, which 14 I knew to be false. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. And the reason why I 16 think -- and I said to Mr. Markus that -- this 17 morning that we were going to talk about this, 18 because when I think about you and the public's 19 perception of Mr. Epstein, the public is left with 20 the view that nobody in the world knows what really 21 happened except for you, okay? 22 And now you've explained, the last day and 23 a half, how some of that's just a misperception, 24 because you weren't -- you didn't have a key to his 25 house, you weren't around as much as maybe everybody Page 298 1 claims you were, okay? 2 But there still is this perception out 3 there that, oh my gosh, if -- if we could talk to 4 Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein 5 was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth 6 is about Mr. Epstein. 7 And the challenge in my mind, just to 8 be -- I told you I would tell you when I had 9 issues -- and the challenge in my mind is that so 10 many women have -- have said that Mr. Epstein 11 sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults, 12 that I don't find it -- you know, at some -- that's 13 persuasive, right, that that happened. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So -- 15 TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive 16 then -- and I think it's without -- beyond 17 contestation that he preferred younger women -- 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: -- and it's also beyond, 20 I think at this point, there were certainly 21 circumstances that underage women -- well, I don't 22 want to say that you agree with me on that. 23 I certainly believe that there were 24 younger age women that were abused by him, okay? And 25 so -- and then so the layer that I want you to -- Page 299 1 that I really want to have a frank discussion about, 2 is some of these women have said, oh, yes, you know, 3 Ms. Maxwell was there, you know, to varying degrees. 4 She saw me there, she -- the door was open when I was 5 there. And then much more egregious, right? That 6 you participated and that you were part of it. 7 And so what I really want you to have an 8 opportunity to say to us, is where on the spectrum 9 the truth is. Whether it's somewhere in the middle, 10 whether it's one extreme or another extreme, 11 understanding. In my mind, I'm talking about 1994 or 12 '5, to whenever, late '90s or early 2000s. 13 DAVID MARKUS: And let me just interrupt. 14 All I would say is, we're not here to say anything 15 one way or the other about Epstein. 16 I agree with you that the evidence is 17 overwhelming against him, and he -- he is his own 18 person and has to deal with that. But Ghislaine can 19 speak about what she knows -- 20 TODD BLANCHE: Yes. 21 DAVID MARKUS: -- and from her point of 22 view and what she did. 23 And that's what you can talk about, 24 Ghislaine. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Page 300 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's 2 helpful to put this on -- the time on the calendar, 3 because I think without that we, we're lost. So I 4 would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2? 5 No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No. 6 In that time frame, you have the 7 allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he 8 met her until she was -- 9 TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about 10 individuals. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just 12 saying. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only -- 15 but there's only -- so in that time period, I am only 16 aware of her. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl, 19 , who said, but -- and and , 20 those -- I don't know of any others. 21 And if there are other people who are 22 making allegations about, I don't -- I'm not even -- 23 I'm not actually aware of them. I may have read them 24 in the -- but I don't know. 25 So I think in the early '90s period, I DOJ REDACTION DOJ REDAC DOJ REDACTION

23 (Pages 301 to 304) 23 (Pages 301 to 304) Page 301 1 think I'm fairly confident, and I can say that at 2 least as characterized, it's just -- it's just false. 3 It's just -- it didn't happen as said. 4 Now, did it -- did it happen -- did he -- 5 did he involve himself? I knew about Jane, because I 6 saw her come to the house. But I saw her with her 7 mother. I know that her allegations are that there 8 were orgies, for instance. But the people that she 9 suggests were in her orgies, didn't even work for 10 Epstein until '98 or '99. 11 Did he do orgies with those people? I 12 don't know anybody who was there who said that they 13 did. I certainly didn't see it. I can't say that 14 that happened. Did she do it with someone else? I 15 don't know. 16 The stories really start -- the 17 allegations really begin with . And I think 18 that you have to shift his behavior, such as it was 19 bar, there was one in California who made an 20 allegation. 21 There was a woman who said that she -- and 22 she's -- I didn't know about. So I think I would 23 call her the first person. I'd be aware of him using 24 his position to -- 25 TODD BLANCHE: But -- and sorry to Page 302 1 interrupt you. But I just want to -- I don't want -- 2 I don't want to have you -- I don't think it's 3 helpful for us -- 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 5 TODD BLANCHE: -- have you kind of address 6 each allegation. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 8 TODD BLANCHE: I want you to clear your 9 mind and just tell the truth about it. So I'm not 10 saying you're not telling the truth. 11 I'm saying just putting aside what other 12 people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or 13 what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in 14 the press, push those aside, you were there. 15 And so when you go back to that time 16 period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time 17 period, what did you see when it comes to young women 18 and massages? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. 20 All right. So I saw him receive massages. 21 He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were 22 standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that. 23 He was living in the Iranian house, and 24 now that I look back, he had -- I didn't stay there, 25 but I would go to manage the house. I would see Page 303 1 women, models, or people that he would have come to 2 the house. 3 I -- I know that I thought that he was 4 with Eva still at that time. That's what I believed. 5 And then subsequently believed that even 6 though she married him, I actually subsequently 7 believed that the baby that she had was his. 8 DAVID MARKUS: Can I interrupt for one 9 second? 10 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Of course. 11 DAVID MARKUS: Can I just ask some basic 12 top line questions? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 14 DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage 15 room with him and a masseuse? 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 17 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Who -- when was 18 that? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he would come in 20 sometimes, and he would say, like, give her a massage 21 here, or he would grab my -- you know, but not often. 22 I mean, he did come in from time to time. 23 DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage 24 room with him with a masseuse that was naked or 25 giving him any sexual favors? Page 304 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw that. 2 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I remember. 4 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you -- did you 5 ever -- did any of the masseuses ever discuss with 6 you giving -- that they gave sexual favors to 7 Epstein? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 9 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you ever see an 10 underage girl go into a massage room with 11 Mr. Epstein? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 13 DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what 14 would you have done? Would you have left? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive. 16 I can't even conceive of -- I can't imagine what I 17 would have done. 18 DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry. 19 TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay. 20 DAVID MARKUS: Okay. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe 22 Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage? 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, when I'd 24 seen him on a massage table, I had seen him 25 masturbate. I don't know if there was a masseuse DOJ REDACTION

24 (Pages 305 to 308) 24 (Pages 305 to 308) Page 305 1 present, but I've seen him on a massage -- 2 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just -- 4 TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever see him 5 masturbate with a masseuse -- you know, with a naked 6 woman, either giving him a massage or reporting to 7 give him a massage? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember 9 seeing that. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Did you give him massages 11 by the way? I mean, there's a photo of you rubbing 12 his feet, and I think, but -- 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never -- I certainly 14 have been in the massage room with him, and I have 15 certainly rubbed his feet when he was -- we're 16 talking, but I was not a masseuse and I didn't 17 perform massage on him. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- along -- during 19 the -- over the years, did you pay the masseuses? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was typically not 21 my job, but if there was nobody else, normally -- so 22 in Palm Beach, the houseman would give the money. 23 And in New York, he would do that, because 24 I wouldn't be in New York when he -- I mean, I don't 25 remember ever paying a masseuse in New York. Page 306 1 TODD BLANCHE: So it wasn't -- 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But maybe -- 3 TODD BLANCHE: -- your -- it wasn't your 4 job -- 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 6 TODD BLANCHE: -- on a regular math -- 7 basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a 8 masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that 9 seven days a week you would be the one handing them 10 money? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- mostly I would 12 not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that 13 wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them. 14 I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he 15 would have money or the houseman, and I think some of 16 them would have probably received checks. 17 TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on 18 what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you 19 participate in sexual activity with him with a 20 masseuse, like at the same time? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 22 TODD BLANCHE: And so the testi- -- I 23 don't know if there's testimony, but the women who 24 have said that that happened, categorically, that's 25 not true? Page 307 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically 2 not true. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- moving past 4 the -- and moving into the 2000s -- 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I just want to 6 say that I have been -- I mean, I remember there'd be 7 times when he'd be getting a massage and I would be 8 in the room, I could be on his feet, and somebody 9 else could be on his feet, and we could be talking. 10 So there is that. 11 TODD BLANCHE: But that's not -- you're -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. 13 TODD BLANCHE: -- not talking about 14 something that's sexual, you're talking about 15 literally just rubbing his feet? 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I mean -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: But that's not what I'm 20 talking about, I'm saying -- 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Well, they 22 could be -- the -- sometimes the women might be 23 topless who were giving that. So you could say that 24 was sexual in that context. 25 TODD BLANCHE: No, I'm talking about the Page 308 1 repeated reports of certain sex acts happening with 2 you present and even participating? 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- did -- in the 5 2000s time period, so moving a little more recently 6 when you talked about it yesterday, about how your 7 relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was 8 changing and you ultimately met somebody else. 9 Did you observe any, you know, massages or 10 young women giving him massages later on? So after 11 2000, 2001 time period? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did. 13 TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything 14 different about what you observed during that period 15 and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct 16 towards them? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency 18 increased. I think he went from one to two in that 19 time period. And -- but I did not see -- I have no 20 recollection of ever seeing a child entering the 21 house and giving him a massage. I -- at that time, 22 he had moved me out of the main house. 23 I had moved into an office with John 24 Alessi, the former butler, under the stairs. So I 25 had an office where I would be that was not part of

25 (Pages 309 to 312) 25 (Pages 309 to 312) Page 309 1 that -- part of the house. 2 If I saw people, and I'm not saying I 3 didn't see people come to give him a massage, that 4 wouldn't be true either. But if I saw someone, let's 5 say, I wouldn't -- I don't remember ever seeing 6 anybody that I would characterize as a child, no. 7 Specifically someone who accused me of seeing her at 8 the time when she came. 9 If I did see her, and I don't believe I 10 did see her or meet her at all, but if she did, she 11 was as her -- she's described herself now, was very 12 mature and looked in her 20s. 13 So could somebody have come that was more 14 mature looking than the allegation of what she did 15 look like, with a photograph that was produced as 16 evidence? Yes. But I never recall at any time 17 seeing what I would characterize as a child coming to 18 give him a massage and going upstairs. Did I see 19 people come? I absolutely did. 20 Did I -- I just didn't see children. I 21 didn't see anybody I would think of as a child. And 22 if I had seen a child, I wouldn't -- I'm not sure 23 what I would have done. 24 TODD BLANCHE: Well, did you -- just 25 talking, like coming out a little bit of just bigger Page 310 1 picture, do you -- at the time that you were in his 2 life, did -- do you -- was he a -- did he seem to you 3 to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the 4 right way to describe it. 5 But when you say to me, he was getting 6 massages every single day, right? So young women 7 were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days. 8 Flew with the women to the island, to New York, 9 Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing 10 him, giving him massages. I think it's -- it would 11 be an understatement to say that that's not normal? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree. 13 TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part 14 of the Epstein story over the past several years, but 15 you were there at the time. Okay? 16 What was it like at the time? I mean, was 17 he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing? 18 Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image 19 wise? Like at the time, what was it like? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been 21 creepy, like, as you would define, and you would 22 expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be 23 creepy, I don't think the women would have been 24 there. 25 I don't think that they thought of him as Page 311 1 creepy. And if they did, I never saw them behave 2 like he was being weird. Was it a lot? Yes, it was 3 for sure. I found it overwhelming, and I couldn't 4 understand why it was interesting, because to me, 5 it's not interesting. 6 But he, as he defined it, he found it 7 invigorating. He liked being with younger people and 8 not just younger people. I'm just saying because 9 they gave him ideas, and they were up to date on 10 music and -- 11 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, but that's different, 12 like, a masseuse coming every day. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just telling you 14 what he was saying to me. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, to me, I just 17 found it a drag and difficult and annoying. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But understand I 20 wasn't the only person present. So this time in the 21 2000s, you're talking about other people, like Sarah 22 Kellen, who was around, who interfaced with him. 23 I didn't have to -- she was really 24 interfacing with Epstein at this point in time in his 25 life. She was running his -- she was his assistant. Page 312 1 And so I didn't have to -- 2 TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But 3 move beyond the -- his assistants or the folks that 4 work with him. What about his friends and the people 5 that were associated with him? 6 It couldn't be -- it doesn't -- I don't 7 understand how that -- how this is an after fact of 8 Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it 9 becomes part of his story. And then later on he's 10 charged in Southern District, and then here we are 11 now in 2025. 12 But he was a very successful, hardworking 13 guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with 14 them on vacations and went to the island. It 15 doesn't -- I don't understand how he was able to hide 16 this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual 17 fixation or issue -- 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't -- 19 TODD BLANCHE: -- from -- from others? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did 21 hide it. I -- that's the answer. And I think that 22 the people around him, I think, myself included -- 23 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- obviously, 25 normalized his behavior on a number of fronts. One,

26 (Pages 313 to 316) 26 (Pages 313 to 316) Page 313 1 I think it -- because it was a self -- because so 2 many people saw it of so many -- of such a high 3 caliber down that never seemed to think it would -- 4 well, if they thought it was strange probably, they 5 never said it at the time. So it became sort of like 6 it was his thing, right? He was always around with 7 women. 8 Now, you don't -- I understand that it's 9 very unattractive, especially in light of everything 10 that we know today. But at the time, the only way I 11 can sort of try and describe it is through Sex and 12 the City, the movie, the show on telly, where the -- 13 this is -- that lifestyle is described on the TV show 14 constantly. 15 There are always these women around and 16 men who like it. And a lot of the men that I know 17 like women, and so maybe not as overtly as Epstein, 18 but he was overt, not covert, except obviously in the 19 context of the criminal behavior. 20 So what we're discussing now, there's a 21 difference between the criminal behavior and the 22 non-criminal. But you don't like the lifestyle, I 23 concur. 24 I agree. Especially now. And I -- I own 25 my side of that fence that I was there and that I saw Page 314 1 his behavior with women and didn't challenge him or 2 do something. 3 But I don't -- I don't think back in the 4 '90s or the 2000s, we've had a cultural shift. And 5 the cultural shift, I think is a very important part 6 of the analysis here. Not because I'm trying to 7 justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to, 8 and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me 9 program. So please, don't misunderstand this. 10 However, in the 19- -- 2000s, when this 11 behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the 12 Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the 13 women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm -- 14 my memory serves, were actually targets of the 15 investigation and could have been charged with 16 prostitution and trafficking, I would -- if 17 trafficking was even a law. 18 So you're taking -- you're taking 19 behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did, 20 but not underage women. I understand that there are 21 allegations. I have read them about myself going to 22 schools. I can categorically tell you that I have 23 never, in my life, gone to a school to pick up a 24 child. Well, not for this purpose. I mean, like my 25 stepchildren, and all, but okay. Sorry, just -- Page 315 1 TODD BLANCHE: No, I understand. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Thank you. I 3 just want to be clear that I'm not trying to be cute 4 or anything. 5 But -- and I did look for masseuses, I -- 6 I did. I went to spas and if I met somebody who said 7 she was a masseuse, I did not check their 8 credentials. And of course, if she was attractive, I 9 did introduce her, yes. 10 If I met friends who were interested, he 11 was constantly asking me for -- to meet new and 12 interesting people. I did -- I did do that. 13 At the time, I viewed it as -- well, first 14 of all, part of my job, I think, or part of my 15 responsibility, if you were, to introduce -- because 16 it wasn't just women. If I met somebody who was 17 interesting, like Murray Gell-Mann or who I thought 18 he would like, I did that. So it's not exclusively, 19 but he did. And I did do that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: So -- but then -- so I want 21 to layer on top of what you just said, what we talked 22 about yesterday more, but a little bit today already, 23 which is everybody that was around him besides you, 24 like his friends. 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Page 316 1 TODD BLANCHE: So I accept the lifestyle. 2 I've seen the photos, the fact that everybody is -- 3 we're all going to go to the island for a couple of 4 days, or we're flying on a private plane and there's 5 beautiful women everywhere. 6 Is there any -- I mean, do you, as you sit 7 here today, think that the people around him didn't 8 also -- weren't also of the same place where they 9 were also getting massages where there was sex going 10 on during them, or things like that? And I'm 11 obviously asking this because that's what the -- 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. 13 TODD BLANCHE: -- that's what everybody 14 has said. And when you just described what it was 15 like, the very next step from that is everybody's 16 going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so -- 17 and so you -- it seems kind of far-fetched to say 18 that, yes, that was his lifestyle. 19 But then when he's taking groups of folks 20 to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or 21 whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church 22 in the morning while he's getting a massage. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I hear you. I was 24 there, though. And -- 25 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.

27 (Pages 317 to 320) 27 (Pages 317 to 320) Page 317 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- and you're talking 2 about very substantial people. And you are 3 extrapolating because the narrative that started 4 in -- by the way, not until 2009, is when it really 5 started. 6 So that narrative that was created and 7 then built upon, and it just mushroomed into what -- 8 basically this is like a Salem witch trial. People 9 have gone and lost their minds for this thing. I 10 understand that. 11 But the issue is, how do you satisfy a mob 12 who can't understand the lifestyle because it's like 13 P. Diddy in Redux on TV with Clintons and Trump. I 14 mean, it's -- it's bananas. And while some of it is 15 real, he did do those things. I'm definitely not 16 disputing that. 17 But this was a man, they didn't even 18 believe he had a real business. I happen to believe 19 he did. Did he grift? I don't -- I don't know, 20 because I wasn't really in his business. But this is 21 -- this is one man. 22 He's not some -- they've made him into 23 this -- he's not that interesting. He's a disgusting 24 guy who did terrible things to young kids. You're 25 not going to hear me say what he did to people who Page 318 1 are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go 2 there. That's just not what I'm here to -- I mean, I 3 -- okay? 4 But to suggest that Larry Summers or 5 Clinton would certainly go, oh my gosh, this is like 6 a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some 7 sex. They're men that went and had a massage and 8 maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in 9 the room. I cannot tell you if that happened. 10 And if it did, not -- I never paid for 11 that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to 12 me, oh, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that 13 was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay. 14 TMI, no, not my business. You want to -- it's just 15 not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that. 16 But did I, like, think these guys were 17 coming for that? I really don't. If you met 18 Epstein, there is no way that this cast of 19 characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are 20 in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and 21 you know, would be with him if he was a creep or 22 because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants 23 sexual favors, he will find that. They didn't have 24 to come to Epstein for that. 25 Now did some? Okay. I don't know. I Page 319 1 wasn't there. I didn't see it. 2 TODD BLANCHE: So when's the last time you 3 think you were with Mr. Epstein when he got a 4 massage? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say 2007. 6 TODD BLANCHE: 2007? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 8 TODD BLANCHE: And the frequency at that 9 point, so 2007, is that when it was at its peak, 10 would you say? Meaning the number of interactions he 11 was having daily with women and masseuses? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wasn't really in his 13 life. I happened to be in the Caribbean in 2007. I 14 was with Ted. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And we -- I was still 17 speaking with Epstein, because I was still involved 18 in his -- you know, loosely with his -- the houses 19 and the staff and some of the billing. And he -- and 20 I was going back from being with Ted in the Caribbean 21 to New York, and Epstein offered me a ride. And so 22 Ted dropped me off in Saint Thomas, and I was on the 23 island, I believe, for one day and one night only. 24 On that visit, I believe -- well, I know 25 he would have gotten a massage, but I have -- there Page 320 1 were people there, but I did -- that were women. And 2 I was -- 3 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- just relieved not 5 to -- 6 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- be leaving the next 8 day. 9 TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break. 10 SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a 11 break. The time is 11:31. 12 (Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.) 13 SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio 14 recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the 15 time is 11:49 a.m. 16 TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to 17 follow up about former President Clinton's 18 relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you. 19 Can you -- we touched on it, but can you 20 just to set the -- I have a couple questions about 21 it, but what's your understanding of their 22 relationship from what you observed? Meaning former 23 President Clinton and Mr. Epstein. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw them talk. I 25 saw them sit down and have chats about, I don't know,

28 (Pages 321 to 324) 28 (Pages 321 to 324) Page 321 1 because I wasn't either a party or didn't listen and 2 I know -- I would characterize, originally anyway, 3 Mr. Epstein's interest in him because obviously he's 4 the former president. 5 But I never saw him -- other than that, I 6 saw them be friendly on the plane, but I never -- I 7 don't believe -- I don't recollect, anyway, ever 8 seeing them in any other context. 9 I don't remember him at his house in New 10 York. Like I said, I don't believe he ever went to 11 that island. I think that was just a -- that was a 12 story that did. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know one way or the 14 other, whether their relationship continued without 15 you, like, when you kind of moved on past 16 Mr. Epstein? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Why do you say that you 19 don't believe so? 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I don't think 21 they had a relationship even when I was there. I was 22 -- I -- President Clinton liked me, and we got along 23 terribly well. But I never saw that warmth or that 24 -- that warmth or however you want to characterize 25 it, with Mr. Epstein and cert- -- so I didn't see Page 322 1 that. I didn't see any interest in -- I didn't see 2 President Clinton being interested in Epstein. He 3 was just a rich guy with a plane. 4 TODD BLANCHE: When -- when the Southern 5 District of New York case kind of became public and 6 there was a search warrant of Mr. Epstein's house, 7 there was like a -- there was some sort of painting 8 or picture with Mr. Clinton in like a blue dress that 9 had been signed. 10 Did you know -- do you know where he got 11 that picture or that painting? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The first I saw it was 13 in the press. 14 TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that 15 in his -- 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 17 TODD BLANCHE: -- brownstone? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was 19 hideous. 20 TODD BLANCHE: What's that again? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought it was 22 hideous. 23 TODD BLANCHE: And -- but you had never -- 24 so you don't know, sitting here today, where 25 Mr. Epstein got it? Page 323 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 2 TODD BLANCHE: The circumstances in which 3 he got it? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know of any other 6 gifts or paraphernalia or art or pictures that former 7 President Clinton gave to Mr. Epstein? 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I mean, did he 9 maybe get him a gift? I don't know. I have no 10 knowledge of that. 11 TODD BLANCHE: And then going back to the 12 topic we were talking about before our last break. 13 Well, when you said something yesterday at 14 the very beginning of our conversation that when you 15 first met Mr. Epstein and you ultimately have sex 16 with him, that he had -- I'll use the word erectile 17 dysfunction, but he had issues having sex? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's what he told 19 me. 20 TODD BLANCHE: That's what he told you? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then over the 23 years, you said sometime in the '90s he started 24 taking testosterone? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. But I don't know Page 324 1 if it was in the '90s. I don't remember when he 2 started, but it wasn't -- he had patches -- 3 testosterone patches -- 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- dermal. 6 TODD BLANCHE: Like on his arm? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 8 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And then he was 10 ridiculous, because you shouldn't take more than one. 11 But sometimes he had, like -- I'm like, what are you 12 doing? It's like unhealthy. 13 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. From what you 14 observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have 15 challenges sexually over the years or do you think 16 that whatever he told you -- whatever issue he told 17 you he had was fixed? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie. 19 TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying 20 about what? 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: About his erectile 22 dysfunction. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Oh, you mean you never -- 24 you don't think he ever had any issues? You think he 25 just told you that? DOJ REDACTION

29 (Pages 325 to 328) 29 (Pages 325 to 328) Page 325 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. That is what I 2 believe today, yes. But given -- if any of the 3 stories are true, even if he had erectile 4 dysfunction, the thing had a priapism, for Christ's 5 sake. 6 TODD BLANCHE: Well, that's -- that's one 7 of the reasons for my questions. I mean, you're 8 right. I mean -- and again, we're -- we've talked 9 about this a fair amount, but what did -- like the 10 stories of what masseuses, underage and overage have 11 said about him is, are, you know, and what he liked, 12 what he demanded that they do. Whether it's watching 13 him masturbate or pinching his nipples, you know, 14 kind of things that are unusual. 15 Do you believe that? Like, do you -- from 16 what you saw, from what you observed, from what you 17 did when you were in a relationship with him, is that 18 true? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- well, the bulk of 20 what I read, he did not have sex. So that is 21 consistent with what he told me, actually. 22 And his masturbating, that is also 23 consistent with what I knew myself. And I'm going to 24 use a bad word for -- 25 TODD BLANCHE: Please, you can use Page 326 1 whatever words you need. Yes. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Blowjob. 3 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He liked blowjobs. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I did observe. 7 And he didn't seem to have any erectile dysfunction 8 for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I 9 read the stories about all the allegations of sexual 10 rape, I find that challenging, because that was not 11 his modus operandi, from my perspective. 12 TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about 13 blowjobs, that -- does that -- that would be 14 consistent with kind of -- 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be 16 consistent, as would masturbation, yes. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses 18 or women that either he was in a relationship with or 19 who asked you about working with him? Did you tell 20 them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate 21 in front of you? 22 Like, did you have conversations with any 23 of those -- with women about what Mr. Epstein liked 24 or what would make him happy, or things like that? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any Page 327 1 memory of telling anybody about that. I think I may 2 have joked like saying, oh my God, you know, like 3 from a Sex and the City scene that, you know, he's -- 4 but not -- I never instruct -- the question you're 5 asking me, sorry, let's just be clear. 6 Did I ever instruct anyone how to 7 pleasure, Mr. Epstein, your question? No. 8 TODD BLANCHE: And you said this earlier, 9 but I want to just -- you kind of said it on your 10 own. I want to ask the question, just so I'll make 11 sure that there's no confusion. 12 When -- when you over the years -- 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, can I just -- 14 TODD BLANCHE: -- yeah. Of course. Yeah, 15 yeah, please. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Right. I just 17 want to say, the idea that I would have to explain to 18 a woman how to satisfy Mr. Epstein is patently 19 absurd, because he clearly was able to explain 20 himself. 21 He didn't need an interlocutor to explain 22 what he liked. He's been doing this obviously or 23 this -- some version of this story his whole life and 24 did not require any help from me. 25 TODD BLANCHE: Then -- so did you ever Page 328 1 observe him having sex with a masseuse? Regular 2 intercourse, not a blowjob, nothing else, where you 3 either walked in or you were in the room? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw him have 5 sex with any person. 6 TODD BLANCHE: And so how about oral sex? 7 Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex, 8 whether you were in the room or walked in, or -- 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw 10 anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No. 11 TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you 12 did see him masturbating in front of masseuses. 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said 14 that. I don't know -- 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't 16 want -- 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- if I said that. 18 TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question. 19 Sorry. 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure 21 I said that. 22 TODD BLANCHE: No, that's fair. That's 23 fair. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I said I saw him -- 25 I'm sure I saw him in a -- what some people could

30 (Pages 329 to 332) 30 (Pages 329 to 332) Page 329 1 define as sexual contact. Because if somebody could 2 not have their clothes or topless, I would say maybe, 3 I could say that. 4 If I saw him having -- masturbating when 5 someone was there, I don't recall that, I don't have 6 a specific memory of it. I'm sorry. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But no, I'm not -- 9 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- I didn't say that. 11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I understand, that's 12 fair. Sorry. I'm not --- 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's okay. 14 TODD BLANCHE: -- certainly not trying to 15 put words in your mouth. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no. That's -- 17 absolutely no. That's fine. 18 TODD BLANCHE: So -- and you said, I think 19 in passing -- maybe not in passing. I'm sorry. 20 About -- about, you know, whether other 21 people who travel with him would get massages or -- 22 so that would -- when I say that I'm referring mostly 23 to the island or, potentially, New Mexico. But also 24 his Palm Beach residence or even in New York. 25 Do you know of -- do you have a list of Page 330 1 names in your head or names that come to mind of 2 people that you know did get massages when they were 3 with Mr. Epstein? 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list. 5 There's no list of people getting massages. I don't 6 have -- I can barely recall all the people. I can 7 barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people 8 that I met. And I may have met a long time that I 9 had even forgotten that -- about Mr. Kennedy, or I 10 probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my 11 mind now. 12 So I don't have, and there's no list. 13 There was never a list. There was no -- or certainly 14 none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none 15 that I ever witnessed, none that I -- there's no 16 list. Has never been a list. 17 TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard 18 Mr. Epstein talk about such a list? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard 21 Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control 22 over somebody because of what he knew about what they 23 had done or had photos of him or anything? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard him -- 25 no, I never heard him ask questions about that. I Page 331 1 never heard him. So I've been present many times 2 with masseuses. I never -- who presumably could or 3 maybe did massage somebody, I'm not saying whether 4 they did or not just (indiscernible). 5 I never heard him ask any question of any 6 masseuse who may have given a massage to a friend 7 that was on the island, or in Palm Beach or anywhere 8 else for that, any details about that massage. Like, 9 does he have a funky foot? No, I never heard that 10 because it -- weird. 11 TODD BLANCHE: And I think at one of the 12 breaks today, your lawyer may have showed you 13 something that just came out in the paper, I think 14 this morning or last night. A letter that you -- 15 that is attributed to you, associated with this 16 birthday book from 2003 that we talked about 17 yesterday. 18 Is -- did you see that letter. 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did see the letter. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Is that, in fact -- look 21 like your handwriting or something you wrote? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So, I don't remember 23 the letter. 24 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But it does look like Page 332 1 my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And 2 it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory 3 of writing that, and I don't remember it at all. 4 TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the 5 birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like, 6 looked like? Like how it was put together? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. 8 TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about 9 it? 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was 11 leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big. 12 It was big. Right like -- 13 TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks 14 like -- it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches? 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort 16 of like a folio size, I guess, or something like 17 that. And like this. And it was brown and thick, 18 about this thick. 19 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And -- 21 TODD BLANCHE: So just -- so you -- so I 22 understand -- 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: On heavy stock paper. 24 TODD BLANCHE: Heavy stock paper, like 14 25 inches high?

31 (Pages 333 to 336) 31 (Pages 333 to 336) Page 333 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's about right. 2 TODD BLANCHE: And then around like -- 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A4. A4. We had A4, 4 because it was done on heavy stock paper, but I can't 5 remember if it was folio size paper, or it could have 6 just been A4. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Oh I see. So it could have 8 just been letter size, or it might have been legal 9 size -- 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 11 TODD BLANCHE: -- heavy stock paper. 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 13 TODD BLANCHE: And the -- so the folks 14 that submitted letters were given the stock paper or 15 how were the letters -- or did you, like, glue or 16 something the letters to the stock paper? 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Every which way. Some 18 were given the paper and they did their own thing. 19 Some would send me some scrap of paper and I would 20 put it on the thing. Some I didn't get because they 21 went straight to Epstein, and I was just told to put 22 them in, like I said. 23 TODD BLANCHE: And how was it bound? 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It went to a 25 professional binder, who did it like a book that Page 334 1 you'd see in the library. 2 TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps 3 a regular book, a novel that you would read together, 4 it was bound that way? 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a -- I believe 6 so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't 7 remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a 8 professional bookbinder. 9 TODD BLANCHE: And then after you 10 presented it, or after it was presented to him when 11 he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did 12 he keep it somewhere in particular? 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase 14 in 71st Street. 15 TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan? 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan. 17 TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the 18 years until you stopped going to the brownstone? 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it -- I know I 20 did see it, because it was right behind his desk. 21 And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened 22 to it. 23 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- do you 24 remember being told or knowing where the book is now? 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. But I -- when I Page 335 1 received in discovery those pages, I assumed that it 2 had been found when either New York or the island was 3 searched, and I assumed that the Southern District of 4 New York had it. 5 TODD BLANCHE: But I think you said 6 yesterday. But just to go over it again, in case you 7 remember anything differently. You recall seeing 8 some of the letters in discovery. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. 10 TODD BLANCHE: But you don't recall kind 11 of seeing the leather book, start to finish? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, but remember, I 13 didn't see all discovery because they were very 14 clever about, you know, I didn't receive all 15 discovery, period. And in fact, very important items 16 were not given to me at all, including witness 17 testimony from grand jury. 18 TODD BLANCHE: So whether -- so you don't 19 know one way or the other, whether it was part of 20 discovery, you just know that you didn't get it. It 21 wasn't part of the discovery that was given to you? 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. But there's 23 a -- I am absolutely sure that the Southern District 24 of New York hid very important pieces of evidence 25 from me. Page 336 1 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that 3 they leaked it because where else would it be, if 4 that's what it is. If it's true. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've -- just so I 6 put -- I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit 7 to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday 8 that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today 9 was -- was exactly what we did, which is to have a 10 conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you. 11 And I think it's very challenging to talk 12 about everything we talked about. And, you know, in 13 one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So 14 I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're 15 going to do next, if anything. 16 There's no -- and I don't -- I'm not being 17 coy or -- I just -- I don't know yet. I don't know. 18 So we -- I have a lot of -- we have some work to do. 19 We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have 20 questions or follow-up. 21 And this has been very helpful. I think 22 it's -- it was you, you know, who kind of said you 23 wanted to talk, but we gladly accepted it. So I do 24 appreciate you being willing to meet with us. And I 25 expect that we'll be in touch soon. All right.

32 (Pages 337 to 338) 32 (Pages 337 to 338) Page 337 1 Yeah. 2 SPENCER HORN: This concludes the recorded 3 proffer interview of Ms. Maxwell. The time is 4 12:05 p.m., on Friday, July 25th. 5 (Interview concluded at 12:05 p.m.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 338 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 2 3 I, Cathy M. Ayotte, do hereby certify that 4 the provided audio recording media was transcribed by 5 me or reduced to typewriting under my supervision, 6 that said transcript is a true transcription of the 7 audio recording; that I am neither counsel for, 8 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the 9 action involved in these proceedings; and, further, 10 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 11 or counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor 12 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 13 the action. 14 __________________________________________ Cathy M. Ayotte, OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTIONIST 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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Page 5 Page 5 branching 252:18 Branson 276:11,15 Branson's 276:7,9 break 281:15 285:14,17,19 320:9,11,12 323:12 breaks 218:7 331:12 Brin 236:2 bring 264:15 British 276:3 broad 289:11 broadest 286:15 289:12 294:7 broker 227:11 brother 236:21,21,23 237:22 237:24 238:12,12 239:2 242:8 brought 225:5,5 314:12 330:10 brown 332:17 brownstone 322:17 334:18 build 283:16 built 283:20,21,24 317:7 bulk 325:19 bunch 236:5 275:18 business 225:10 226:8 228:24 243:6 260:16 272:4 272:7 279:25 280:2 281:18 282:22,24 283:13,16 284:14 284:14,17 317:18 317:20 318:14 businesses 224:23 225:8 232:1 252:20 283:12 285:5 businessmen 282:16 284:11 butler 308:24 buy 232:20 281:23 by 221:20 223:5,12,17 233:7 234:7 235:9 257:17 286:25 287:7,9 291:24 294:11 298:24 305:11 317:4 334:7 338:4,8,11 C cabinet 318:20 calendar 300:2 caliber 313:3 California 301:19 call 242:17 296:9 301:23 called 225:25 236:11 279:6 294:16 calling 332:5 came 226:1 232:8 244:8 259:6,15 267:11 276:15 277:5 278:7 278:21 279:15,17 282:4 285:1 296:10 296:25 297:3,12 309:8 310:17 330:10 331:13 Campbell 269:18,23 270:2,7 can 217:15 222:20,21 225:19,20 226:25 227:22,23 234:2 244:7 247:12 249:20 253:24 254:24 260:19 262:18,18 263:10 265:12,25 275:6 277:15 279:9 289:11,11 290:22 291:6 292:2 299:18 299:23 301:1 303:8 303:11 313:11 314:22 320:19,19 325:25 327:13 330:6,6 cannot 318:9 can't 222:6 226:2 239:20 247:10 249:7,21 254:7 256:11 262:24 265:5 273:1 273:2 284:15 301:13 304:15,16 304:16 317:12 333:4 car 234:20 card 294:10,21 care 224:3 264:7 282:11 Caribbean 236:11 237:1 276:2,2 319:13,20 carry 266:16 cars 234:14 254:2 case 322:5 335:6 cases 226:18 cast 318:18 casting 291:2 catch 264:5 categorical 290:20 categorically 235:11,12 292:2 306:24 307:1 314:22 Cathy 338:3,14 celebrate 236:12 center 283:18 centered 277:1 central 263:21 cert 321:25 certain 278:1,13 308:1 certainly 222:25 226:3 239:1 251:6 270:10 279:2 284:12 290:20 291:11 292:11 298:20,23 301:13 305:13,15 318:5 329:14 330:13 CERTIFICATE 338:1 certify 338:3 CGI 264:11 challenge 298:7,9 314:1 challenges

Page 6 Page 6 324:15 challenging 326:10 336:11 change 295:11 changed 295:1,7 308:7 changing 308:8 Chappaqua 259:19 260:4 characterization 221:3 267:14 287:5 296:22 characterize 239:21 255:4 276:11 283:17 287:13 288:1,12 289:18 295:13 309:6,17 321:2,24 characterized 287:7 301:2 characters 318:19 charge 217:6 228:13 charged 312:10 314:15 chats 320:25 check 231:14 232:23 315:7 checks 306:16 Cheryl 246:21 chicken 278:18,20 child 273:2 283:8,9 292:2 293:14 308:20 309:6,17,21,22 314:24 children 283:6,8 295:11 309:20 Chris 238:14,17,18,20 239:5 268:11 Christopher 238:15,16 Christ's 325:4 chunks 231:12 church 316:21 circumstances 219:7 247:25 298:21 323:2 City 313:12 327:3 civil 294:8 296:16 clad 288:22 claims 298:1 clarify 229:15,16 clarity 219:1 clear 245:3 248:11 295:10 297:11 302:8 315:3 318:11 327:5 clearly 327:19 Cleveland 252:22 clever 335:14 clients 281:7 312:13 Clinic 252:22 Clint 259:15 Clinton 247:3,20 248:6,18,24 249:17 252:5 253:8 254:19 257:11 258:10,16 259:1,1 259:17,24,24 260:10,21 261:4 262:8 263:16 264:18 265:4,10 266:3,11 268:20 269:21 318:5 320:23 321:22 322:2,8 323:7 Clintons 260:17 263:14 317:13 Clinton's 249:10 320:17 close 238:24 267:18 closest 229:17 clothed 289:3 clothes 329:2 club 284:9,9 Coast 259:11 coercive 289:17 cognition 277:13 coherent 218:10 collected 223:13 college 291:16 Columbus 283:19 come 218:25 227:1 233:19 234:20 263:1,2,9 274:9,11 277:14 279:10 281:3 294:8 301:6 303:1,19,22 309:3,13,19 318:24 330:1 comes 302:17 comfortable 291:3 coming 222:5,14 224:24 232:11 260:3 280:6 292:17 309:17,25 311:12 318:17 communicated 260:3 communicating 237:15 company 230:1 compare 225:20 completely 235:11 complex 283:10 component 277:9 computer 279:11 conceal 230:15 conceive 304:15,16 concluded 337:5 concludes 337:2 concur 313:23 conduct 286:2,14 288:16,18 288:21 308:15 confident 301:1 confirm 254:25 confusing 218:11 confusion 327:11

Page 7 Page 7 connections 243:5 consensual 289:15 consent 289:6,7 considered 295:16 consistent 325:21,23 326:14,16 constantly 313:14 315:11 contact 289:10 329:1 contain 283:11 contained 221:12 contemporaneously 222:1 230:8 296:9 contestation 298:17 context 260:25 261:1 274:17 307:24 313:19 321:8 continue 245:17 324:14 continued 246:1 321:14 continuing 218:5 280:22 contracts 283:3 control 222:7,9 232:8 330:21 controlled 221:20 223:4 conversation 283:21 323:14 336:10 conversations 226:15 262:6 291:12 291:14,15 326:22 converted 225:25 cornered 275:24 correct 235:13 256:24 289:22 292:23 335:22 could 220:8 222:24 223:18 227:6 231:9,11 236:8 251:21 253:1 256:9 260:6,6 261:8 262:8 264:5 282:11 282:12 288:20,21 296:2,17 297:7 298:3 307:8,9,9,22 307:23 309:13 314:15 328:25 329:1,3 331:2 332:2 333:5,7 couldn't 219:2,8 263:6 285:9 311:3 312:6 Council 242:24 282:16 counsel 338:7,11 count 253:14 country 284:9 couple 235:16 237:2 286:3 316:3 320:20 course 224:18 246:12 251:7 284:15 303:10 315:8 327:14 covert 313:18 coworkers 318:20 coy 336:17 co-founder 236:3 crazy 246:13 create 283:9 created 317:6 credentials 315:8 creep 318:21 creepy 310:17,21,23 311:1 criminal 286:2 295:16 313:19 313:21 cross 279:22 cultural 314:4,5 Cuomo 238:5,7,16,20 239:5 239:5 curious 281:22 cute 315:3 D dad 228:22 daily 319:11 Dakotas 241:2 date 216:2 241:4 249:19 249:20 275:6 311:9 dated 275:8 dates 243:21,23 247:8,11 dating 242:8 David 216:13 217:21 221:15 222:7 228:13,18 231:18 247:9 249:22,25 285:15 299:13,21 303:8,11,14,17,23 304:2,4,9,13,18,20 Davos 261:12,13,16,21 262:3,3,5 264:18 265:3 day 227:12,13 275:25 286:11 291:17 297:22 310:6 311:12 319:23 320:8 days 236:14 237:2 286:11 306:8,9 310:7 316:4 336:13 deal 225:9 290:12,13,21 299:18 dealings 260:10 deals 225:15 dealt 282:10 defend 291:5 define 286:15 288:2,20 289:24 310:21 329:1 defined 289:12 311:6 defining 289:12 definitely 218:12 219:21 247:23 295:2 317:15 definition 294:11 definitively 222:22 degrees

Page 8 Page 8 299:3 demanded 325:12 Department 216:1 deposition 296:17 depositions 291:11 Deputy 216:6,7,10 dermal 324:5 describe 254:8,16 262:5 310:4 313:11 described 231:22 257:10 258:11 290:24,25 309:11 313:13 316:14 describing 256:7 description 297:7 designed 283:17 desire 224:20 desk 334:20 detail 257:8 283:2 details 331:8 developing 277:25 deviant 310:3 Diddy 317:13 didn't 219:6,19 224:1 225:9 226:7 228:10 229:3 229:22 231:13 232:16 243:3 245:3 246:14,17 250:14 255:17 258:6 262:20 264:8,21 267:4 269:11 275:13 281:7 282:3 285:10 286:5,7 287:10 288:10,11 293:21 297:24 301:3,9,13,22 302:24 305:16 309:3,20,21 311:23 312:1 314:1 316:7 317:17 318:15,23 319:1 321:1,25 322:1,1 326:7,8 327:21 329:10 333:20 335:13,14 335:20 Diego 216:7 difference 313:21 different 219:16 223:11 245:9 256:23 258:10,11 265:18 291:23 295:19 308:14 311:11 differential 290:1 differently 335:7 difficult 311:17 dinner 258:24 262:7 dinners 277:7,10 dinosaur 241:1 discoveries 280:5 discovery 230:13,17 237:15,20 257:20 267:24 268:6 335:1,8,13,15 335:20,21 discuss 277:11,12 304:5 discussed 245:14 discussing 313:20 discussion 218:6 299:1 disgusting 317:23 dispute 221:3,8 233:7 300:7 disputing 223:1 317:16 distinct 289:19 distinction 290:17 distressed 287:14 District 312:10 322:5 335:3 335:23 divide 291:8 document 217:14 does 226:20,23 233:4 240:5 253:24 284:12 286:22 290:2 326:13 331:9 331:25 332:1 doesn't 312:6,15 doing 222:4 227:16 228:6 229:3 245:4 254:17 255:19 278:24 293:17,18 294:13 324:12 327:22 dollars 223:14 224:9 226:12 229:9 230:24 donate 278:11 done 280:22 292:9 304:14 304:17 309:23 330:23 333:4 334:7 door 299:4 doors 227:1 doubt 240:1 Doug 248:22 250:18,19,20 250:25 254:19 255:6 down 220:12 313:3 314:11 320:25 dozens 289:8,9 drag 311:17 dress 322:8 driving 260:3 dropped 319:22 Duchess 266:19 duress 287:12 during 288:16,19 295:19 302:16 304:22 305:18 308:14 316:10 dysfunction 323:17 324:22 325:4 326:7 E E 217:1,1 each 302:6

Page 9 Page 9 earlier 237:6 327:8 328:11 early 241:6,7 247:12 271:12 280:22 299:12 300:25 easier 261:9 easiest 218:14 East 259:10 Eastern 280:7 effort 263:19 egg 278:21 egregious 299:5 Egypt 256:4 either 220:4 225:7 232:25 244:21 258:5 260:2 273:13 274:4,9 288:15 289:3 293:7 294:19 296:4 305:6 306:14 309:4 321:1 326:18 328:3 335:2 elevate 264:24 Elizabeth 274:20 275:8 Elon 235:19 else 224:7 232:21 248:21 255:18 276:23 297:12 301:14 305:21 307:9 308:8 328:2 331:8 336:3 email 237:15 embezzlement 230:3 employed 338:8,11 employee 338:10 employer 254:15 enable 225:13 encompass 295:11,16 end 254:1 ended 255:19 ending 220:19 engage 288:18 engaged 289:10 England 267:19 292:4 enormous 283:22 284:5 entering 308:20 enthusiastic 262:10 entire 287:15 293:22 296:21 entirety 283:13 entities 221:23,25 entity 222:3 235:1 Ep 281:17 Epstein's 239:10 245:16 251:21 256:19 257:1,12 266:3 270:3 271:19 272:10 274:2 276:15 281:18 297:3 321:3 322:6 erectile 323:16 324:21 325:3 326:7 especially 288:23 313:9,24 established 243:1 estate 225:23,24,25 226:1 Europe 255:13 Eva 243:4 303:4 evasive 253:18 even 221:10,18,22,24 230:9,19 233:7 234:9 236:6 239:20 244:3 249:7 251:23 251:25 252:5 258:2 260:6 265:24 266:15,15 273:8 288:24 292:9,11 300:22 301:9 303:5 304:15,16 308:2 314:17 317:17 321:21 325:3 329:24 330:9 event 236:2 237:9 258:23 273:13,14 eventually 263:2 295:22 ever 221:11 236:23 239:19 244:20 245:4 258:25 260:12,16 265:10 266:2,11 270:3 272:10 274:1,4 276:15 279:14 281:21 283:23 303:14,23 304:5,5,9 304:21 305:4,25 308:20 309:5 318:11 321:7,10 324:24 327:6,25 328:7 330:14,14,15 every 249:7 282:10,14 283:8 310:6 311:12 333:17 everybody 297:12,25 315:23 316:2,13 everybody's 316:15 everyone 242:13 246:8 everything 222:19 227:13 242:14 267:11 294:2 313:9 336:12 everywhere 224:21 310:7 316:5 evidence 222:13 223:12 230:19 235:4 299:16 309:16 335:24 exact 241:4 257:2 exactly 217:14,25 218:3 219:15 336:9 example 222:14 226:6 227:7,8 228:5 234:25 291:14 except 297:21 313:18 excited 273:9 exclusively 286:1 315:18 excuse 237:23 277:6 287:7 expect 224:1 310:22 336:25 expected

Page 10 Page 10 306:8 experience 297:13 explain 222:24 226:21 282:21 327:17,19 327:21 explained 242:15 297:22 explaining 287:3 expressed 224:20 extent 277:20 336:19 extraordinary 223:16 251:11 253:23 254:1 282:18 318:19 extrapolating 317:3 extreme 299:10,10 ex-husband 267:3 ex-president 251:13 252:12 259:15 265:23 F fact 251:24 291:15,16 312:7 316:2 331:20 335:15 fair 296:7,13 312:2 325:9 328:22,23 329:12 fairly 301:1 false 220:3 235:11,13 297:6,14 301:2 family 228:12,22 229:23 279:17 famous 279:7,8 fancy 242:17,19 fantastic 251:13 far 233:1 236:17,18 245:18 281:19 308:15 far-fetched 316:17 father 279:16,20 father's 230:1 favors 303:25 304:6 318:22 318:23 FBI 216:9 217:6 226:14 Fe 280:8,12 feel 219:19 291:3 feeling 256:10 feet 287:19,21 305:12,15 307:8,9,15 Fekkai 274:23 felt 219:5 267:12,13,15 female 267:22 fence 313:25 Ferguson 266:20 few 239:1,2 243:17,18 253:25 259:19 fill 258:3 finance 228:24 252:25 financed 225:11 226:19 financial 220:16 224:10 226:13 283:11 financially 224:16 338:12 financier 275:24 282:11 find 227:22 232:24 263:10 298:12 318:23 326:10 fine 246:6 329:17 fingertips 254:24 finish 335:11 first 221:2 225:7,9,10 236:16 252:11,11 252:21 253:6 255:11 278:21,24 295:7 296:12 297:3 297:7 301:23 315:13 322:12 323:15 fixation 312:17 fixed 324:17 flat 245:15 266:12 flew 265:21 310:8 312:13 flight 258:4 259:6 268:16 268:17 269:5,14,15 flights 223:25 251:4 272:13 272:15 flip 227:6 flippant 260:6 flipped 226:4 Florida 295:20 312:8 flying 239:10 240:15 265:23 316:4 focus 282:22 286:1 folio 332:16 333:5 folks 217:25 218:4 240:11 254:19 257:12 268:9 274:13 312:3 316:19,20 333:13 follow 218:21 320:17 follow-up 336:20 food 224:2 foot 331:9 for 216:5,12 217:6,13 219:1 220:17,18 221:1,12,13 222:13 222:19,23 223:17 223:22 224:2,3,17 225:1,11 226:23 227:7,11 228:5 229:11,16 230:25 231:3,14,21,23 234:8,25 235:4,9 236:2,3,4,13,15 237:1 240:11 241:4 245:24 249:14,23 250:3 251:6,18,22 252:8,25 256:1 257:8,18,22 260:1 264:11 265:6 268:7 270:1 271:20 274:17 275:6 DOJ REDACTION

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Page 12 Page 12 335:21 giving 222:17 232:2 286:13 294:9 303:25 304:6 305:6 307:23 308:10,21 310:10 328:7 gladly 336:23 Global 249:17 260:22 261:5 263:16 glue 333:15 334:2 go 218:16 220:6 223:3,4 225:21 229:6 232:19,20 235:16 250:11,16 251:17 255:17 259:20 262:1,8 264:8 265:3 265:17 266:2,11 268:22 271:23,23 275:10,13,14,15 276:12 280:10 291:16 293:7 300:4 302:15,25 304:10 316:3 318:1,5 335:6 goal 224:15 God 240:16 327:2 going 217:25 218:2,16 222:18 228:22 232:20 234:2 235:24 245:7 247:12,18 250:13 252:23 255:1,17 262:15 265:10,18 281:14,16 285:7 290:13 291:2,25 293:9 297:17 309:18 314:11,21 316:3,9,16,21 317:25 318:1,6 319:20 320:10 323:11 325:23 334:18,21 336:15 Goldman 282:14 golf 284:9 gone 252:6 265:13,14 270:9,11,12 314:23 317:9 good 217:3,8,10,11 223:7 238:1 242:9 267:18 goodness 228:16 Google 236:3 gosh 284:9 298:3 318:5 got 224:13,13 227:10 232:19 244:20 250:22 280:16 285:3 319:3 321:22 322:10,25 323:3 gotten 319:25 Gould 277:4,4 278:6 government 222:12,13 223:12 230:19 grab 303:21 grand 335:17 great 284:10 grift 285:10 317:19 grifter 285:6 grounds 225:24 group 218:3 276:25 groups 316:19,20 guess 226:21 241:16 275:19 295:19 332:16 Gullwing 226:24 guy 275:24 310:17 312:13 317:24 318:6 322:3 guys 227:9 252:24 275:18 318:16 H habits 245:6 hairdresser 274:23 half 297:23 336:13 Hamptons 273:15 handing 306:9 hands 245:7 handwriting 331:21 332:1 hang 247:6 266:24 hanging 219:6 happen 290:24 292:6 301:3,4 317:18 happened 222:16 226:19 242:14 252:5 261:10 286:23 292:15 296:2,3,6 297:21 298:13 301:14 306:24 318:9 319:13 334:21 happening 308:1 happiness 278:7 happy 287:17 292:21 326:24 hard 262:4 294:20 hardworking 312:12 Harvard 277:1,5,19,25 280:25 281:5 has 219:22 236:23 238:12 294:16 299:18 316:14 330:16 336:21 hats 284:18 haven't 244:5,6 274:11 having 226:15 262:7 264:18 273:8 277:24 319:11 323:17 328:1 329:4 head 241:16 255:1 330:1 health 240:19 hear 286:18 316:23 317:25 heard 267:11 280:24 283:1 286:19,20 324:14 330:14,17,20,24,25 331:1,5,9 heavy 261:25 332:23,24 333:4,11 helicopter

Page 13 Page 13 221:13 222:21 223:6 231:1,9,12 265:21,22 helmets 284:18 help 241:10 260:24 264:1 327:24 helped 251:3,21 260:23,24 264:15 helpful 300:2 302:3 336:21 helping 232:1,1 263:18 Henry 242:23 275:22,23 her 219:23,23,24 228:13 234:25 235:2 241:9 247:5,25 259:3 266:22,24,24,25 267:3,15,16,17 269:20,25 270:21 270:21,22,23,23 271:1 293:13,13,15 293:21,24,24 294:17,18,20 296:16,21 299:21 300:8,16 301:6,6,6 301:7,9,23 303:20 309:7,9,10,10,11,12 315:9 here 217:6,16,17 218:1,1 245:14 264:25 290:12 291:4 293:19 299:14 303:21 312:10 314:6,8 316:7 318:2 322:24 hereby 338:3 here's 227:8 herself 294:16,17 309:11 he'd 287:20,21 307:7 he'll 326:20 he's 232:3 238:13 312:8,9 316:19,22 317:22 317:23,23 321:3 327:3,22 hid 335:24 hide 312:15,21 hideous 322:19,22 high 253:22 291:15,19 313:2 332:25 Hillary 259:1,17,24 260:10 himself 246:14 261:1,4 264:2 283:21 301:5 306:14 327:20 his 221:20 229:13,17 230:16 236:4,21 237:21 238:11,13 239:1 240:15 242:8 243:4 249:11 255:6 255:20 256:1 258:12 261:21 262:5,9,20,20,24 263:9 264:11,18 266:16 270:12 272:3,23 273:2,3,13 273:14,19 274:1 275:23 279:23 281:7,19 282:19 286:1 287:2,19,21 287:21 297:24 299:17 301:18,24 303:7 305:12,15 307:8,9,15 308:15 310:1 311:24,25,25 312:3,4,9,25 313:6 314:1 315:24 316:18 317:20 319:12,18,18 321:9 322:15 324:6,21 325:13,22 326:11 327:23 329:24 334:13,20 hit 279:17 hold 243:21 259:5 holding 243:22 257:1 Hollywood 268:9 home 260:4 homes 283:23 honestly 271:14 honor 251:8 253:7 Horn 216:9 217:3,5 285:16 285:19 320:10,13 337:2 horrible 298:4 host 278:19 hostility 267:9 hosting 258:22 hotel 253:2 hour 285:23 hours 227:6 336:13 house 234:20 246:24 252:7 259:19,21 270:12 273:14,16 277:7,13 283:21 287:2 297:3 297:25 301:6 302:23,25 303:2 308:21,22 309:1 321:9 322:6 houseman 305:22 306:15 houses 226:1 283:24 319:18 how 217:9 220:12 222:24 228:7,7 235:18,21 236:6 240:24 247:1 247:24,24 250:19 253:15 255:11 256:25 257:9 260:19 261:10 267:13,15 268:13 269:3 271:8 272:22 273:19 278:9,9,10 278:10 280:7 281:18,22 282:20 283:17 284:24,25 287:2,25 289:11 293:1 295:1 296:25 297:23 298:4,5 308:6 310:18 312:7 312:7,15 317:11 327:6,18 328:6 332:6 333:15,23 however 285:24 286:14 295:13 314:10 321:24 hug 288:11 huge 225:4 humanitarian 256:3 hundreds 229:8 hunting 241:2 I

Page 14 Page 14 idea 235:8 250:4 262:11 264:7,11,14,15,17 327:17 ideas 255:9 311:9 identify 274:8 image 310:18 imagine 265:25 269:25 304:16 immediately 289:21 importance 264:25 important 314:5 335:15,24 impossible 219:12 inappropriate 244:14,18 245:4,5,8 245:9 inaudible 227:12 inches 332:14,14,25 included 284:8 286:14 312:22 including 335:16 increased 308:18 incredible 253:21 262:11 independent 224:16,20,24 252:19 261:9 265:16 270:18,24 independently 224:16 271:23 indications 230:14 indiscernible 220:7 277:22 331:4 individuals 235:15 239:9 253:4 254:17,18 300:10 information 220:21 250:9 initial 217:13,15,22 314:11 Initiative 249:17 260:22 261:5 263:16 insert 264:2 insider 228:14 instance 221:13 226:23 301:8 institute 279:5,6,9 280:8,13 institutions 278:2 instruct 327:4,6 intelligence 279:23 interaction 287:23 interactions 319:10 intercourse 318:12 328:2 interest 228:24 234:21 278:8 279:2 280:3 287:5,8 321:3 322:1 interested 252:24 278:4 287:4 315:10 322:2 338:12 interesting 311:4,5 315:12,17 317:23 interests 283:16 interfaced 311:22 interfacing 311:24 interlocutor 327:21 interrogate 279:24 interrupt 218:12 299:13 302:1 303:8 interrupted 218:18 interview 216:1 337:3,5 into 223:4 226:1 231:19 232:8,11 234:9 243:17,18 245:18 246:2 252:20 255:1 279:25 280:1 291:8 293:3 304:10 307:4 308:23 317:7,22 introduce 314:19 315:9,15 introduced 280:10 292:13 introductions 218:3 intuition 267:22 investigation 295:20 314:12,15 investigator 226:14 investing 228:8 invigorating 311:7 invite 277:13 invited 250:11,16 259:22 involve 301:5 involved 239:22 260:25 261:3 295:12,12 319:17 338:9 Iranian 302:23 island 236:10 237:1 239:13 259:6,7,11,15 265:10,14,19 270:4 270:12 274:5 275:23 276:1,7,9,15 281:24 288:23 310:8 312:14 316:3 316:20 319:23 321:11 329:23 331:7 335:2 Islands 276:4 issue 219:10 221:7 223:11 285:22 289:15 312:17 317:11 324:16 issues 272:14 298:9 323:17 324:24 items 335:15 its 283:13 319:9 it'll 227:22 279:10 it's 217:13,19 218:3 219:9,12 220:6,12 225:4 235:24 237:19 238:1 247:11 254:1,2 257:8 260:5 261:9 261:19,25 264:7,14 266:14 268:3,4,5 276:19 279:6 280:3 283:22 284:16,18 285:8,8 298:16,19 299:9,10 300:1 301:2,2,3 302:2 310:10 311:5 313:8 315:18 317:12,14 317:14 318:14,19

Page 15 Page 15 324:12 325:12 332:14 336:4,11,22 I'd 222:22 233:16 252:8 282:12 301:23 304:23 318:13 I'll 217:25 218:9 251:16 254:25 323:16 327:10 336:6,14 I've 223:22 224:17 225:2 236:22 244:1 267:16 273:3 278:25 283:23 284:4,5 292:5 305:1 316:2 331:1 336:5,6 J Jane 292:19 300:7 301:5 Jarecki 275:23 Jay 277:4,4 278:6 job 253:21 279:23 305:21 306:4,13 315:14 John 239:16 240:12 308:23 Johnson 274:20 joke 228:18,20 joked 327:2 Jon 273:1 journals 280:2 July 216:2 217:4 285:20 337:4 jury 335:17 Justice 216:1 justify 314:7 juveniles 298:11 K Kate 294:16 keep 334:12 keeps 334:2 Kellen 311:22 Kennedy 239:6 240:3,9,13,18 240:21 242:11 243:8 244:13,14,18 245:17 246:1,1 330:9 Kennedy's 241:13 kept 246:14 268:24 269:8 286:6 Kerry 238:9,25 239:16,17 240:13 Kevin 269:12 key 264:16 297:24 kids 272:24,25 273:13,19 274:1 283:6 317:24 kind 217:13,24 218:7,21 220:17 226:15 251:17 253:5,6 254:9 264:18 278:12 281:15,18 286:1,4 292:15 302:5 310:13 316:17 321:15 322:5 325:14 326:14 327:9 335:10 336:14,22 kinds 252:20 knew 221:25 227:5 237:11 238:11 239:5 240:9 240:14,19,22 241:7 241:12 243:19 260:9 262:15,20 268:10,11 269:20 269:23 272:19 275:7 291:22 292:1 293:13,14 294:12 297:4,14 301:5 325:23 330:22 knowing 334:24 knowledge 237:17 246:4,5 270:6 280:3 323:10 known 227:9 knows 297:20 299:19 L lack 220:17 land 226:1 large 233:18 283:21 289:15 Larry 271:4 318:4 last 258:15 266:21,22 282:20 284:18 297:22 319:2 323:12 331:14 late 230:19 258:17 299:12 latent 267:9 later 233:19 234:4 237:7 253:5 295:8 308:10 312:9 Latin 248:14 law 290:2 314:17 lawsuits 274:10 294:9 lawyer 246:24 331:12 336:7 lawyers 218:8 233:7 302:12 336:19 layer 298:25 315:21 Leah 216:14 234:23 235:4 238:14,16 267:24 268:1 273:4,6 284:20 leaked 336:3 least 219:4 246:15 301:2 leather 335:11 leather-bound 332:11 334:11 leave 219:6 252:17 279:4 286:22 leaving 320:7 left 217:15 247:20 249:10 255:18 297:19 304:14 legal 244:7 333:8 Lehman 282:14 lent

Page 16 Page 16 226:7 less 288:22 let 218:9 223:10 232:19 241:7 299:13 328:18 letter 268:1 331:14,18,19 331:23 333:8 letters 333:14,15,16 335:8 let's 222:3 223:2 241:16 277:16 289:23 290:21 291:8 300:9 309:4 320:9 327:5 Levine 250:21 library 334:1 license 227:11,22 lie 230:15 296:20 297:7 324:18 lied 296:16 life 223:23 232:2 240:6,7 246:11,12 254:9 284:5 310:2 311:25 314:23 319:13 327:23 lifestyle 310:22 313:13,22 316:1,18 317:12 lift 261:25 light 313:9 liked 228:9 267:2,19 311:7 321:22 325:11 326:4,23 327:22 likely 291:18 likes 326:20 limited 227:5 244:10 line 303:12 list 282:18 329:25 330:4 330:5,12,13,16,16 330:18 listen 321:1 listened 282:24 literally 246:10,11 307:15 little 220:15 260:5 266:19 268:24 271:13 285:23 308:5 309:25 315:22 336:6 live 281:19 living 302:23 310:22 loads 254:22 loaned 225:12 logbook 257:25 258:1 logs 257:15,16,18,19,23 258:4 London 242:16 256:14,15 266:10 long 219:9 243:6,13,15 271:21 285:24 330:8 longstanding 242:7 look 222:22 223:3 226:25 227:23 232:23 279:9 292:24 302:24 309:15 315:5 331:20,25 332:1 looked 285:11 288:1,11 309:12 310:18 332:6 looking 241:4 252:25 287:13 295:15 309:14 looks 226:14 332:2,13 loosely 269:1 319:18 Los 258:19 lost 273:3 300:3 317:9 lot 218:19 223:23 227:16 229:5 230:13,13,20 232:2 244:1 246:14 253:16,16,17 255:4 257:4,8 272:7 273:21 274:12,12 278:24 281:6 282:8 282:8 287:22 293:10 311:2 312:13 313:16 336:18 lots 229:8 256:8 loved 230:16 lucky 227:15 lying 324:19 L.A 258:23 268:25 M M 338:3,14 machine 265:23 made 227:5,16 301:19 317:22 Madrigal 216:15 main 308:22 major 243:4 277:8 278:6 279:16 282:15 make 233:4 235:7 245:3 248:11 251:20 281:9 284:2 290:16 326:24 327:10 makes 233:5 making 270:22 281:20 300:22 man 245:4,15 251:10 280:18 317:17,21 318:22 manage 302:25 manager 253:1 mandatory 278:14 Manhattan 334:15,16 manifests 258:4 manner 218:10 many 220:18,18 223:17 224:3 236:6,6 253:14,15 256:25 257:9 267:17,17 280:6 298:10 313:2

Page 17 Page 17 313:2 331:1 Mark 216:10 market 275:25 Markus 216:13 217:20,21 218:8 221:15 222:7 228:13,18 231:18 247:9 249:22,25 285:15 297:16 299:13,21 303:8,11 303:14,17,23 304:2 304:4,9,13,18,20 306:18 336:14 married 238:9 241:13 303:6 Marshal 216:10 Martha's 259:8 Martin 226:25 277:3 Marvin 276:24 Mary 241:8 242:8 Mar-a-Lago 219:3,5,22 massage 244:20 286:16 287:19,21 288:22 291:25 292:17 303:14,20,23 304:10,22,24 305:1 305:6,7,14,17 307:7 308:21 309:3,18 316:22 318:7 319:4 319:25 331:3,6,8 massages 286:10,11,13 288:16 288:19 302:18,20 305:10 308:9,10 310:6,7,10 316:9 329:21 330:2,5 masseuse 303:15,24 304:25 305:5,16,25 306:7,8 306:20 311:12 315:7 328:1 331:6 masseuses 244:15,20 302:21 304:5 305:19 315:5 319:11 325:10 326:17 328:12 331:2 massive 232:4 masturbate 304:25 305:5 325:13 326:20 masturbating 304:22 325:22 328:12 329:4 masturbation 326:16 matched 229:4 material 244:7 math 306:6 mathematician 277:3 mathematicians 277:18 mature 309:12,14 may 219:2 222:15 234:20 245:9 260:24,25 261:8 263:2 264:1 269:10 270:7,9,11 270:12,16 272:12 273:8 281:3 296:11 300:23 327:1 330:8 331:6,12 maybe 218:23 219:9 222:1 222:19 223:10 226:2,3 236:7 255:14 257:14 265:6 267:5 268:25 270:14 275:16 276:10 281:4 287:10 288:10 291:9 292:3 297:25 306:2 313:17 318:8 318:15 323:9 329:2 329:19 331:3 mean 224:1 225:2 229:25 233:6 238:19 240:14 242:15 243:20 244:25 245:2,2,8 246:4 249:6 250:1 251:2 251:12 252:22 259:25 262:11 267:16,16 269:9 272:14,14 273:3 275:13,14,17 278:5 278:7,24 279:2 284:9 286:25,25 287:9 290:5,13 291:17,18 292:4,7 294:11,14 296:11 303:22 304:23 305:11,24 307:5,6 307:18 310:16 311:16 314:24 316:6 317:14 318:2 323:8 324:23 325:7 325:8 334:7 meaning 234:8 249:11 261:4 278:11 292:16 319:10 320:22 means 230:9 281:19 media 338:4 medicine 252:22 meet 219:24 235:21 236:20 242:11 247:25 258:25 259:3 273:9 275:19 280:21 293:12,13 293:21,24 294:18 309:10 315:11 336:24 meeting 239:21 258:21 meetings 282:8,24 Melissa 216:15 memories 219:1 memory 220:4,9 231:14 232:9 232:13 235:25 236:15 237:13,14 237:25 266:8 268:25 270:18 273:17 294:15 296:14 314:14 327:1 329:6 332:2 men 313:16,16 318:7,8 mention 282:11 mentioned 238:3 239:15 Mercedes 226:24,24 merely 291:25 met 218:1 219:4 220:7 229:18 235:23 236:17,23,24 237:4 237:5 239:1,1,18,19 239:19,24 241:9,18 241:21,22 242:21 242:22 243:6 247:2 247:5 248:1 249:6 251:25 252:6,7,9,10 252:13 259:17 268:16,24 269:20 269:25 271:1,9 273:7,8,11,12,16

Page 18 Page 18 276:8 278:23 293:15 295:7,12 300:8 308:8 315:6 315:10,16 318:17 323:15 330:8,8 Mexico 266:6 270:4,13 274:5 279:5,9 281:25 316:20 329:23 Microsoft 228:10 middle 263:3 299:9 might 219:12 259:9 269:11 307:22 333:8 military 279:21 million 220:24 222:14 224:9 230:24 231:15,22 232:19 233:9,14,22 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 235:8 millions 223:13,14 226:11 229:8,9 230:23,24 Mills 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 248:15 mind 224:22 244:11 274:11 279:4 282:15 286:22 289:18 292:14 295:6 298:7,9 299:11 302:9 330:1 330:11 minds 317:9 mindset 296:4 mine 221:14 232:25 234:22 245:9,21 Minsky 276:24 minute 279:10 281:15 296:16 misperceived 298:5 misperception 297:23 missed 296:3 misunderstand 314:9 MIT 277:19,22,25 281:1 mob 317:11 model 243:5 modeling 243:5 models 303:1 modus 326:11 money 220:21,25 221:4,12 221:12,15 222:16 222:17,20 223:3 224:23 225:4,12 226:7,16,20,21 227:16 229:8,14 230:20,22 232:4,13 232:17,24 233:8 234:5,8,11,19,22 261:4,8 281:19 305:22 306:10,15 money's 222:5 monies 222:25 monolith 246:8 more 218:17,23,24 227:15 235:16 252:19 253:11 254:8 265:4 291:9,18 299:5 308:5 309:13 315:22 324:10 morning 217:3,8,10 281:17 297:17 316:22 331:14 most 282:15 mostly 306:11,14 329:22 mother 293:25 301:7 mouth 286:10 329:15 move 232:21 234:2 288:3 312:3 moved 308:22,23 321:15 moves 234:19 movie 313:12 moving 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 Ms 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 248:15 269:23 270:2 298:4 299:3 320:14 337:3 much 229:22 253:22 267:2 272:15 275:14 277:10 282:10 292:5 297:25 299:5 multiple 253:14 286:11 289:8 289:8 310:7 Murray 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 mushroomed 317:7 music 311:10 Musk 235:19,22 236:15 237:3,11 239:4 Musk's 236:21 237:24 my 217:4 218:10 221:11 224:15,18,19,20,23 224:23 225:1,5 227:8,10,22 228:12 228:22,22,22 229:5 229:17,23 231:2 232:8 234:11 235:6 235:25 236:14 237:13,14,25,25 240:7 241:16 244:7 244:11 247:8,11 250:3 252:18 254:15 255:1 264:11,14 267:3,22 270:6 273:17 279:3 279:16,17,20 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 287:5 289:18 290:20,20,24 296:8 296:12,15 297:13 298:3,7,9 299:11 303:21 305:21 306:13 313:25 314:14,23,24 315:14,14 318:5,6 318:14 325:7 326:11 327:2 330:10 332:1,1 338:5 myself 222:4 224:17 232:20 243:21 264:24 267:14 283:4 312:22 314:21 325:23 N N 217:1

Page 19 Page 19 naked 303:24 305:5 name 217:4 221:22 223:5 234:24,25 235:1 238:13 262:14,21 262:24 263:9 273:3 277:14,15 294:18 332:1 named 246:21 names 218:17,19,20,24 235:16 254:24,25 263:4 274:9,10,12 274:12,16,16,17 275:21 282:12 330:1,1 Nantucket 259:7,11 Naomi 269:18,19 270:7 narrative 317:3,6 near 275:23 276:2 necessarily 291:17,18 need 218:8 243:3 254:23 326:1 327:21 needed 219:5 225:1 nefarious 231:23 282:5 negative 318:13 neighbors 284:3 neither 338:7 never 221:13,14 224:17 225:2 230:16 231:21 239:8 244:17 245:4,5 252:5,6,8,9 257:25 258:2,2,4,5,5 259:15 265:11,12 265:24 267:15 282:6 287:9,11,16 288:2,5,9,10,11,16 290:19,22 292:1,8 295:10,16,17 296:17 297:8 304:1 305:13 306:12 309:16 311:1 313:3 313:5 314:23 318:10 321:5,6,23 322:14,23 324:23 327:4 328:4,9 330:13,16,17,19,20 330:24,25 331:1,2,5 331:9 new 217:6 227:11 259:8 266:6,7 270:4,13,13 273:21 274:5 275:20 279:5,9 281:25 283:18 284:8 305:23,24,25 310:8 315:11 316:20 319:21 321:9 322:5 329:23 329:24 335:2,4,24 next 281:16 285:23 316:15 320:7 336:15 night 218:25 263:4 282:20 284:18 319:23 331:14 nipples 325:13 nobody 228:9 293:18 297:20 305:21 318:11 nonconsensual 288:17 none 330:14,14,14,15 non-consensual 288:7,9 289:17 non-criminal 313:22 nor 338:8,11 normal 310:11 normalized 312:25 normally 288:22 305:21 nothing 233:20 235:1 244:9 244:11 251:2 285:6 289:14 290:18 328:2 notion 265:22 285:5 novel 334:3 now 225:14 226:2 229:3 230:7,12 234:11 245:7,8 246:12 253:17 256:7 275:19 276:7 284:24 285:16 286:4,19 291:4 294:16 295:23 297:22 301:4 302:24 309:11 312:11 313:8,20,24 318:25 330:11 334:24 Nowak 277:3 number 227:5 289:16 312:25 319:10 numbers 254:8 O observation 229:5 observe 304:21 308:9 326:6 328:1,7 observed 229:6 277:24 308:14 320:22 322:14 324:14 325:16 obviously 225:2 232:23 244:7 252:18 255:8 281:8 292:16 312:24 313:18 316:11 321:3 327:22 occasions 257:9 Ocean 239:22,25 odd 261:11 off 280:11 285:10,11,18 319:22 offered 255:8 319:21 office 247:20 249:10 308:23,25 Official 277:21 338:14 often 303:21 oh 217:19 223:7 227:21 228:16 231:4 232:19 233:9,16 240:16,18 241:25 247:21 248:5 256:5 262:7 264:10 267:25 298:3 299:2 318:5,12 324:23 327:2 333:7 Ohio 230:10 283:19,19 on 217:13 218:21 220:17 221:7 224:5

Page 20 Page 20 231:25 234:2 237:1 237:15 238:13 239:10 240:15,25 243:8 244:15 247:7 248:2,12,16,19,21 250:5,13 251:24 252:18 253:7,17 255:17 256:10,13 256:18,19,23,25 257:9,15,16 258:16 259:6 263:12 264:5 265:18 270:16 272:10,13 274:1 278:6 280:11,22 282:7,22 285:20 286:1 287:1 288:23 289:4 298:22 299:8 300:2,2 304:24 305:1,17 306:6,17 307:8,9 308:10 310:7 311:9 312:9 312:14,25 313:12 313:13 315:21 316:4,10 317:13 319:22,24 320:19 321:6,15 324:6 327:9 331:7 332:23 333:4,20 337:4 once 253:11 265:4,4,6 271:22 312:8 one 218:18 221:23 224:17 225:3 226:3 233:21 244:20 251:5,6 255:14,23 255:25 256:7,7 262:1 268:18 279:16,17 281:8 283:22 284:10 289:2,19 291:10,16 295:6,19 299:10,15 301:19 303:8 306:9 308:18 312:25 317:21 319:23,23 321:13 324:10 325:6 331:11 335:19 336:13 ones 256:1 282:13 one-time 232:5 only 227:4 237:13 238:8 239:20 259:17 261:1 268:15 271:22 282:22 283:15 300:14,15 300:15 311:20 313:10 319:23 open 299:4 operandi 326:11 opinion 229:17 opportunity 251:10 299:8 oral 328:6,7 order 235:9 organize 277:8 281:12 organized 283:5 orgies 301:8,9,11 originally 225:24 321:2 Oscars 237:5,5 other 221:15 229:4,11 230:15 232:21 251:3,12,13 253:4 253:10 254:19 255:8 256:10 257:10 267:18 269:16 273:2 274:10 275:21 282:7 285:4 290:14 299:15 300:21 302:11 311:21 321:5,8,14 323:5 329:20 335:19 others 223:5 253:9 278:1 300:20 312:19 otherwise 261:11 338:12 our 218:5 323:12,14 out 252:18 253:25 261:22 266:24 267:11 273:20 275:13,14,15 279:4 294:8 296:10 298:2 308:22 309:25 331:13 outcome 338:12 outside 283:18 over 220:22 222:8 223:14 224:18 225:15 233:22 250:2 253:10 257:21 264:8 289:25 305:19 310:14 318:1 323:22 324:15 327:12 330:22 332:14 334:17 335:6 overage 325:10 overt 313:18 overtly 313:17 overwhelming 299:17 311:3 own 224:23,23 225:5 229:13 240:6 252:19 261:21 264:18 294:17 297:13 299:17 313:24 327:10 333:18 owned 221:13 272:11 283:16 284:15,24 284:25 285:1 owning 264:21 P P 317:13 packed 257:4 pages 335:1 paid 223:13,15,22 224:6 230:20 231:21 233:15 234:7 235:8 318:10 painting 322:7,11 Palm 225:22 239:13 266:7 270:11 305:22 314:12 329:24 331:7 paper 331:13 332:23,24 333:4,5,11,14,16,18 333:19 paraphernalia 323:6 Paris 270:13 274:7 310:9 park 230:11 parleyed 279:25 part 220:16 238:5 249:9 251:9 254:9 260:21 263:15,23 279:22

Page 21 Page 21 289:4 299:6 308:25 309:1 310:13 312:9 314:5 315:14,14 335:19,21 participate 291:7 306:19 participated 299:6 participating 288:15 308:2 particular 334:12 parties 338:8,11 party 321:1 passing 238:4,4 329:19,19 past 260:3 307:3 310:14 321:15 patches 324:2,3 patently 265:20 327:18 pay 305:19 306:7,13,14 paying 305:25 payments 232:5 payroll 220:17 231:25 peak 319:9 people 229:11 230:15 242:17,20 253:23 262:2 267:18 282:18 284:2 285:11 286:20 287:18 293:11 300:21 301:8,11 302:12,21 303:1 309:2,3,19 311:7,8 311:21 312:4,22 313:2 315:12 316:7 317:2,8,25 320:1 328:25 329:21 330:2,5,6,7 per 220:19 percent 225:16 perception 297:19 298:2 perfectly 282:2 perform 305:17 performing 223:16 Pergamon 280:1 period 219:9 229:18 252:14 271:12 274:25 300:15,25 302:16 302:17 308:5,11,14 308:19 335:15 336:13 permitted 292:8 person 271:6 294:16 299:18 301:23 311:20 328:5 personal 229:7 237:16 246:3,5 257:25 272:4 297:13 personally 229:6 231:13 282:25 personnel 264:16 person's 262:13 perspective 326:11 persuasive 298:13,15 Pestana 216:7 Philip 250:21 Phipps 225:25 phone 264:5 282:7 photo 305:11 photograph 309:15 photos 316:2 330:23 physical 289:13 physicality 287:24 pick 314:23 picking 306:17 picture 310:1 322:8,11 pictures 323:6 pieces 335:24 Pigozzi 236:11 pilot 265:22 pilots 257:25 pin 249:21 pinching 325:13 place 217:13 271:21 293:10 294:2 316:8 places 218:18 266:9 plane 239:10 251:6,18,21 252:8,10 255:20 256:20,23 257:1,12 287:2 316:4 321:6 322:3 planes 240:15 272:10 274:2 281:24 please 225:3 228:15,16 251:12 259:5 314:9 325:25 327:15 pleasure 327:7 plus 265:20 pocket 231:19 podcast 294:17 point 219:24 255:12,16 284:6 286:10 294:25 295:1 296:1 296:3 298:20 299:21 311:24 312:2 319:9 poor 314:8 pop 255:1 position 301:24 possibility 220:8 possible 234:21 250:8 268:5,6 276:20 possibly 226:3 288:24 post 237:8 249:20 297:12 potentially 329:23 pre 249:20 precise 231:17 preferred

Page 22 Page 22 295:2 298:17 present 236:15 282:23 305:1 308:2 311:20 331:1 presented 334:10,10 president 247:3,19 248:3,4,6 248:18,23 249:5,6,9 252:1 253:8,24 254:2,19 255:6 257:11 258:10,16 259:24 261:12,20 264:18 265:4,10 266:3,11 268:20 269:21 320:17,23 321:4,22 322:2 323:7 presidents 249:8 press 237:20 280:1 302:14 322:13 pressured 253:22 presumably 331:2 pretty 241:8 282:10 prevent 280:4 priapism 325:4 primary 256:1 prisoners 279:24 private 283:23 316:4 privilege 251:9 probably 227:24 231:9 239:20 247:11 250:17 269:25 275:7 306:16 313:4 330:10 problem 218:9 problems 229:23,25 proceedings 338:9 process 260:21 produced 309:15 professional 333:25 334:8 professionally 334:7 professors 278:1 proffer 217:7,11 320:14 337:3 profit 226:5 profits 225:14 226:9 profoundly 278:4 program 314:9 properties 266:4 270:3 271:19 272:11 propose 225:8 prostitution 314:16 protective 310:18 provide 251:5 provided 338:4 public 257:19 291:11 294:7 295:23 296:10 297:19 322:5 publicly 274:9 292:12 310:18 public's 297:18 publishing 279:18 pull 235:2 purchase 221:16 223:5 224:8 purchased 221:19 purpose 249:3 255:7 258:20 314:24 336:8 purposes 255:22 push 302:14 put 234:9 262:12 271:21 279:10 286:9 300:2 329:15 332:6 333:20,21 336:6 puts 246:8 putting 232:12 302:11 p.m 337:4,5 Q question 223:8 231:3,17 251:16 271:11 296:8 327:4,7,10 328:18 331:5 questions 218:10 239:3 250:3 303:12 320:20 325:7 330:25 336:20 quite 227:16 260:19 283:17 R R 217:1,5 ramp 263:15 ran 284:8 ranch 281:25 random 225:17 283:25 range 289:11 rape 326:10 rather 261:10 read 278:25 286:21,21 292:5 295:18 296:11 300:23 314:21 325:20 326:9,12 334:3 real 225:23 285:12 296:12 317:15,18 332:2 realize 296:1 realized 219:3 really 220:5 222:3 228:6,6 228:6 239:20 243:21,24 255:7 264:7 267:4 271:14 272:15 275:19 278:3 282:6 290:12 294:17 297:20 299:1,7 301:16,17 311:23 317:4,20 318:17 319:12 realms 220:8 reaped 225:13 226:8 reason

Page 23 Page 23 225:13 226:8 reason 223:15 231:23 237:13 249:21 250:3 260:2 277:24 282:4 297:15 reasons 325:7 recall 239:9,24 247:15 249:24 253:17 268:7 292:16 294:13 306:14 309:16 329:5 330:6 330:7,7 335:7,10 receive 224:10 302:20 335:14 received 219:23 224:25 234:8 306:16 335:1 receiving 222:25 231:14 288:15 recently 308:5 recognize 286:4 recollect 233:1 282:25 283:14 321:7 recollection 221:10 229:7,7 240:15 244:13 308:20 record 234:23 285:18 recorded 217:7 320:14 337:2 recording 338:4,7 records 232:11 recover 296:17 297:8 recruited 219:24 recruiting 223:17 235:10 red 284:18 reduced 338:5 Redux 317:13 referring 296:20 329:22 reflect 234:24 257:15 refresh 244:10,11 regard 224:18 regular 302:21 306:6 328:1 334:3 regularly 286:16 reimburse 224:2 reiterate 245:3 reject 292:15 related 228:11 338:8 relation 277:17 relations 242:24 278:15 282:17 relationship 220:16 224:19 243:18 245:17 250:23 251:3 254:10,10 258:9 263:13 270:21 272:3 273:19 279:14 280:8,24 281:5,6 308:7 320:18,22 321:14 321:21 325:17 326:18 relationships 242:21 246:2 254:11 277:18 280:25 287:6 relative 338:10 relieved 320:4 remember 218:23 219:8,11 225:14 226:2 228:2 231:18,20 233:17 235:24 236:6,9,18 244:24 247:4,7 249:7,17,22 250:11 250:15,16 251:6 253:19 255:11 256:11 260:2 262:14,20,24 263:7 265:5,7 268:2 273:8 276:9 277:1 282:13 283:20 296:25 304:3 305:8,25 307:6 309:5 321:9 324:1 331:22 332:3 332:4,8,10,11 333:5 334:7,24 335:7,12 remembering 296:5 rental 271:20 repeated 308:1 reporting 305:6 reports 308:1 require 327:24 resembles 245:13 residence 329:24 respect 258:12 286:2 responsibility 265:25 315:15 responsible 251:18,19 257:18 279:1 restructured 283:12 resuming 285:19 320:13 review 244:6 reviewed 223:22 reward 235:9 rich 322:3 Richard 276:9,11 Riddell 284:17,20,21 Riddell's 284:17,19,22 ride 319:21 ridiculous 324:10 right 217:15,16,18 220:1 222:6 223:11 226:17 227:1,6,23 228:21 229:18 232:7 233:3 238:12 238:15 239:24 241:16 247:8,11 252:4 254:6,12,12 255:2 256:7 261:19 279:8 285:16,21 290:18 293:11 295:19 296:11 298:13 299:5 302:19,20 304:18 310:4,6 313:6 315:25 320:16 325:1,8 327:16 332:12 333:1

Page 24 Page 24 334:20 336:25 role 250:13,14 262:5 room 303:15,24 304:10 305:14 307:8 318:9 328:3,8 rubbed 305:15 318:6 rubbing 305:11 307:15 310:9 rules 218:7 rumors 302:13 running 262:3 311:25 S Saffian 216:14 234:23 235:4 238:14,16 267:24 273:4,6 284:20 said 219:2,15,16,17,19,22 221:7 222:4 223:2 223:21 231:25 234:12 237:25 244:1 253:6 255:16 262:19 265:9 270:16 282:2 284:1 285:2 286:3,8,12,13 286:21 289:9 292:2 292:4 293:5,5,17,18 295:4 297:16 298:10 299:2 300:19 301:3,12,21 302:12,12 306:24 313:5 315:6,21 316:14 318:11 321:10 323:13,23 325:11 327:8,9 328:11,13,17,21,24 329:18 333:22 335:5 336:7,22 338:6 Saint 319:22 sake 325:5 salary 224:6,24 225:2 Salem 317:8 same 217:14,25 218:3,6,6 239:3 242:20 256:17 269:14 271:11 306:20 316:8 Santa 280:8,12 Sarah 266:20 311:21 satisfy 317:11 327:18 saw 221:11 237:14,14 244:17 245:4,5 258:2,3,5,16 266:22 280:23 282:6,6 283:4 285:8,11 286:19,24 287:6,9 287:11,16,17,22,24 288:2,5,9,10,12,16 290:19,22 292:15 297:12 299:4 301:6 301:6 302:20,22 304:1 309:2,4 311:1 313:2,25 320:24,25 321:5,6,23 322:12 324:14 325:16 328:4,9,24,25 329:4 330:14 334:19 say 217:25 218:11 219:10 222:3,18,20 222:22 236:7,14 237:13 238:2,23 240:20 243:11 244:10,11 245:7,19 246:12 247:17,18 254:18,25 258:14 259:4,5 260:11 261:3 263:20 264:11,12 268:17 269:3,8 271:17 275:9 284:6,15 285:7 286:12,20 289:16 290:22,23 291:3,6,22 295:5 298:22 299:8,14,14 300:4 301:1,13 303:20 307:6,23 309:5 310:5,11 316:17 317:25 319:5,10 321:18 327:17 329:2,3,10 329:22 336:6 saying 221:23 222:10,15 232:12 234:1 235:11 246:18 264:17 279:1 289:7 291:1,3 300:12 302:10,11 306:12 307:20 309:2 311:8 311:14 327:2 331:3 332:13 says 242:14 scene 327:3 school 291:15,19 314:23 schools 314:22 science 278:4 scientific 277:11 279:16,18 280:2,5 scientist 278:6 scientists 276:25 277:8 279:24 scrap 333:19 scribbling 263:4 search 322:6 searched 335:3 second 258:3 279:3,21 303:9 secret 257:4,5,8 266:16 Secretary 239:16,25 240:12 259:1 271:5 secure 224:17 see 217:14 226:16 258:7 259:23 260:12 270:12 275:16,19 286:7,8,17 287:8,24 288:14,14,18,21,24 289:4,14 295:11 297:1 301:13 302:17,25 304:9 305:4 308:19 309:3 309:9,10,18,20,21 319:1 321:25 322:1 322:1 328:12 331:18,19 333:7 334:1,11,17,20 335:13 seeing 305:9 308:20 309:5,7 309:17 321:8 335:7 335:11 seek 250:9 seem 281:19 310:2 326:7 seemed 313:3 seems 219:7 312:16 316:17 seen 229:22 237:2,20 257:19 267:17

Page 25 Page 25 304:13,24,24 305:1 309:22 316:2 self 313:1 self-esteem 225:1 Senator 240:3,9 send 226:20 333:19 sense 233:4,6 281:21 286:15 294:7 sent 220:22,25 221:4,16 222:20 separate 224:24 246:11,11 258:9 271:1 separately 269:23 Sergey 236:2,3 Sergey's 236:12 Series 227:10,10 serves 236:1 273:17 314:14 service 223:16 257:4,5,8 266:16 services 231:22 set 222:3 258:3 281:16 296:15 320:20 seven 286:11 306:8,9 several 230:23 233:11 235:15 310:14 sex 308:1 313:11 316:9 318:7 323:15,17 325:20 326:8 327:3 328:1,5,6,7 sexual 286:14 288:15,18,21 289:10 303:25 304:6 306:19 307:14,24 310:3 312:16 318:8,12,22 318:23 326:9 329:1 sexually 223:18 291:24 298:11 324:15 share 246:15,17 sharer 246:15 she 219:22 248:17 267:2 267:4,4,19 268:7 269:24 270:9,10,10 270:11,12,13,16 274:22 292:13 293:5,13,14,15,17 293:22,24,25 294:12,17,19 296:25 297:3 299:4 299:4,19,22 300:8 301:8,14,21 303:6,7 309:8,10,10,14 311:23,25,25 315:7 315:8 she's 267:1,16,17 301:22 309:11 shift 301:18 314:4,5 short 244:6,9 should 234:23 244:10 261:20 shoulders 287:22 shouldn't 232:25 324:10 show 232:11,25 233:2 313:12,13 showed 222:13 331:12 shows 220:21 side 256:3 313:25 signature 217:15 signatures 235:2 signed 217:12 322:9 significant 290:1 Sikorsky 231:12 silver 275:24 simply 222:2 since 267:11 295:5 single 310:6 sirens 254:2 sit 316:6 320:25 sitting 287:20 322:24 situation 287:12 290:17 size 332:16 333:5,8,9 slid 294:23 slide 293:11 295:15 slips 279:3 small 283:3 smart 227:15 290:8 social 277:10 socializing 266:24 socially 238:24 273:8,22,23 273:24 287:11 sold 225:24 234:20 some 218:17,24,25 219:23 226:21 229:4 230:14 232:21 234:19,19 253:4 255:12,16 259:10 264:2 267:9 268:8,9 274:13,16,17 277:19 279:13 282:23,24 284:6 286:10,14 291:12 292:10 294:7,25 295:1,23 297:23 298:12 299:2 303:11 306:15 310:7 312:16 317:14,22 318:6,19 318:25 319:19 322:7 327:23 328:25 330:21 333:17,19,19,20 335:8 336:18 somebody 236:10 246:21 250:12 287:21 294:10 307:8 308:8 309:13 315:6,16 329:1 330:22 331:3 somebody's 245:9 273:16 somehow 260:2 someone 219:13 220:7 292:4 292:11 301:14 309:4,7 310:22 329:5 something

Page 26 Page 26 219:20 220:23,24 225:9 227:9,23 229:16 232:21 235:25 236:14 244:23 245:4 247:11 249:14 251:9 253:7 255:8 258:12,18,23 259:13 260:7,23 261:1,5,25 262:8 267:10 271:18 279:4 281:4 288:17 290:22 294:8 295:6 307:14 314:2 318:8 323:13 331:13,21 332:16 333:16 sometime 323:23 sometimes 256:22 267:3,4 275:15 286:11 303:20 307:22 324:11 somewhere 230:17 232:17 255:18 299:9 334:12 soon 336:25 sophisticated 228:25 Soros 272:18,22 274:1 sorry 228:3 231:4,6 236:9 240:20 247:7 248:5 248:9 254:13 263:13 268:21,22 279:3 280:10,19 297:11 301:25 302:19 304:18 305:3 314:25 318:1 327:5,13 328:15,19 329:6,12,19 sort 225:17 260:9 269:1 286:14 289:18 310:17 312:16 313:5,11 322:7 330:21 332:15 sorts 252:24 sounds 232:12 234:1 256:6 260:5 261:11 South 248:3 Southern 312:10 322:4 335:3 335:23 Spacey 269:12 270:2,6 span 241:11 spas 220:6 315:6 speak 265:17 299:19 speaking 319:17 spec 254:5 Special 216:9 217:5 specific 254:8 329:6 specifically 280:9 283:19 309:7 spectrum 299:8 Spencer 216:9 217:3,5 285:16 285:19 320:10,13 337:2 spend 251:10 265:18 278:11 285:23 spending 233:2 253:8,22 255:4 255:5 spoke 272:6 sports 284:16 Springer-Verlag 280:1 squeeze 287:21 staff 283:3 319:19 stairs 308:24 stand 253:25 standard 302:22 start 218:15 252:21 289:23 291:9 301:16 335:11 started 249:18 255:3,5,10 279:19 317:3,5 323:23 324:2 starting 220:18 startup 263:16 state 239:16 240:12 292:2 statements 291:11 294:8 295:23 States 216:1,5 stay 263:12 302:24 stayed 224:1 269:1 staying 263:12 273:16 step 316:15 stepchildren 314:25 Stephen 277:4,4 278:6 still 263:12 296:4 298:2 303:4 319:16,17 stitched 334:6 stock 332:23,24 333:4,11 333:14,16 stocks 283:11 stop 253:1 260:4 stopped 334:18,21 stops 256:8 stories 301:16 325:3,10 326:9 story 265:20 310:14 312:9 321:12 327:23 straight 241:16 333:21 strange 313:4 Street 334:14 strictly 260:20 structures 283:11 struggle 330:7 stuck 221:6 stuff 244:10 278:25 296:10 submitted 333:14 subsequently 303:5,6 substantial 317:2 substantive DOJ REDACTION

Page 27 Page 27 222:5 successful 312:12 successfully 252:18 such 292:8 301:18 313:2 330:18 SUFFIAN 268:1 suggest 225:9 228:16 318:4 330:21 suggesting 228:25 suggests 301:9 sum 225:4 233:18 Summers 271:4,9 272:2,10 318:4 super 267:17,17 supervision 338:5 support 263:23 supported 263:25 supporting 263:19 suppose 258:6 288:2 sure 221:10,19,25 223:8 235:7 245:24 248:11 251:20,25 255:13 260:19,19 265:6,12 269:11 270:18 274:18 281:3 284:2,15 289:17 308:12 309:22 311:3 327:11 328:20,25 335:23 surface 263:3 surprised 264:3 surprisingly 242:13 suspicious 281:22 T T 217:1 table 304:24 tainted 297:10,11 take 218:7 240:14 253:3 265:24 281:14,15 285:13,14,17 320:9 320:10 324:10 takes 285:24 taking 314:18,18 316:19 323:24 talk 218:8 220:14 224:12 253:13 254:5 277:16 281:16 285:25 297:17 298:3 299:23 300:9 320:24 326:17 330:18 336:11,14 336:23 talked 218:16,22 220:15 224:6,11 240:12 244:15 266:19 274:11,19 281:17 285:22,22 291:19 292:12 294:25 308:6 315:21 325:8 331:16 336:6,12 talking 230:6 234:3 241:11 241:12,14,23 242:4 244:2 245:12 252:14 254:18 261:24 268:18 271:12 275:1 279:7 289:6 292:19 295:5 297:2 299:11 305:16 307:9,13,14 307:20,25 309:25 311:21 317:1 323:12 tangent 280:11 targets 314:14 tasked 277:7 team 254:23 255:6 Ted 240:3,13 319:14,20 319:22 telehealth 252:21 tell 221:5 225:19 229:2 230:15 249:20 261:10 282:12 293:1 298:8 302:9 314:22 318:9 326:19 telling 296:5 302:10 311:13 327:1 telly 313:12 Tens 229:8 terms 264:4 289:12 TerraMar 239:23 terrible 317:24 terribly 321:23 terrify 265:24 testi 306:22 testified 292:11 295:24 302:13 testimony 222:12 291:10 292:23 293:22 294:5,6,21 297:12 306:23 335:17 testosterone 323:24 324:3 than 219:16 227:15 251:3 251:13 253:11 255:8 258:11 261:10 265:4 282:7 288:22 291:23 309:14 321:5 324:10 thank 217:22 218:13 241:25 280:14 285:15 288:8 315:2 That'll 227:23 that's 218:11,17 220:3 223:7,19,19 226:11 227:20 230:5,9,17 231:2 234:8,21 242:14 245:13 246:13 250:2 252:23 256:16 257:15 262:11 264:21 265:18 267:13,14 279:15 280:7 281:3 282:17 284:7 285:7 287:2 289:2 290:18,21 291:23 293:19 294:8 296:7,13 297:23 298:12,15 299:23 303:4

Page 28 Page 28 304:19 306:24 307:11,14,19 310:11 311:11 312:2,21 316:11,13 318:2 323:18,20 325:6,6 328:22,22 329:11,13,16,17 333:1 336:4 their 223:19,19 257:25 282:23,24 287:7 291:13,25 295:14 302:12 315:7 317:9 320:21 321:14 329:2 333:18 them 222:22 223:18 227:6 235:17,18,18 240:14,15 251:21 253:17,19 254:21 254:22,22,24 255:22 256:23 257:19 258:2,3 260:13,25 262:12 263:18 264:1 268:10,11 277:13 277:14 278:10,11 278:15,15,19 280:6 280:6 282:13,15 289:5,17,20 290:23 298:11 300:23,23 306:9,13,14,16 308:16 311:1 312:14 314:21 316:10 320:24,25 321:6,8 326:20 333:22 then 217:20 219:3 221:16 225:13,25 226:4,8 227:12 229:2 242:5 242:10,23 252:8 255:7,14 258:3 264:1 274:25 275:17 278:12 279:22,25 280:1 281:9 282:19 283:15 286:18 295:14 297:11 298:16,25 299:5 303:5 312:9,10 315:20 316:19 317:7 323:11,22 324:9 327:25 333:2 334:9 therefore 289:20 293:23 thereto 338:11 there'd 284:13 307:6 there's 217:12 218:2,11,19 219:17 220:20,21 232:10 233:6,11,18 233:22 235:4 261:6 265:13,14 268:5,8 276:7 279:8 282:7 289:8,10,19,25 290:17 291:9,10 294:5,6,21 300:14 300:15 305:11 306:23 310:9 313:20 316:4 318:15 327:11 330:4,5,12,15 335:22 336:16 these 232:4 234:12 243:5 255:24 256:13,18 263:2 279:1 283:10 291:12 293:11 295:23 299:2 313:15 318:16 338:9 they 221:11 222:4 223:13 225:23,25 226:14 226:16,24 237:12 237:15 241:13 242:16,19 246:12 246:13 251:19,20 251:21 252:7,10 257:11 260:4 261:21,22 264:15 265:17 268:16,24 269:1,8,10 270:2,14 272:7,8 275:9,10,10 275:12 276:8 277:10,11,14,15 278:12 286:13,21 287:13,17 288:10 288:11,23 289:9,10 291:15,16,19,19,23 292:3,5 295:24,25 296:4 301:12 302:13 304:6 307:21 310:25 311:1,9,9 313:4,4 316:8 317:17 318:22,23 321:21 325:12 330:2,22 331:4 333:18,20 335:13 336:3 they'd 252:6,9 they're 220:7 255:1 257:19 310:9 316:21 318:7 318:8 332:5 they've 286:21 317:22 thick 332:17,18 thing 218:15 246:7 268:7 269:16 279:19 282:21 284:16 290:12 292:8 310:17 313:6 317:9 325:4 333:18,20 things 221:16 230:15 232:2 234:12 252:25 253:25 263:3 268:5 282:25 286:5 291:2 296:11 316:10 317:15,24 325:14 326:24 thinking 261:22 273:10 this 220:24 222:4 223:10 225:13 227:2 228:9 228:11 229:8,17 234:22 241:17 249:9 252:3 255:23 258:13 259:13 261:5 266:14 278:24,25,25 279:1 279:2 280:12 283:20,25 284:11 285:5,22 291:8 294:7,25 295:16 296:2,2,8 297:16,17 298:2,20 300:2 311:20,24 312:7,16 313:13 314:7,9,10 314:24 316:11 317:8,9,17,20,21,23 318:5,18 325:9 327:8,22,23,23 331:14,15 332:17 332:18 336:21 337:2 Thomas 319:22 those 221:19 226:18 227:6 231:12 234:5 239:9 242:16 251:4 252:24 253:4,13,25 254:17,18 258:5 266:9 270:1,16 272:14 277:17,17 277:25 278:2 279:14 286:13 287:4 291:2,2 300:20 301:11 302:14 317:15 326:23 335:1 though 303:6 316:24 thought

Page 29 Page 29 218:23 251:8 261:20 282:3,20 284:17 285:11 303:3 310:25 313:4 315:17 322:18,21 thoughts 262:9 three 226:3 234:4 236:14 239:9 253:15 270:1 318:13 through 218:17 227:13 235:15,16 239:22 239:25 240:5,6 242:11,14 247:3 269:25 271:10 277:5 279:15 286:20,20 313:11 ties 277:25 til 229:19 293:15,22 time 217:4 219:9 224:8 225:7 227:19 229:17 236:16,25 237:3 241:11 242:8 243:13,15,18 251:10 252:14 253:6,8,23 255:4,5 258:15 259:17 265:18 266:21,22 271:12 274:25 276:10 278:11 282:16 283:8 285:16,20 286:18 286:19 287:15,16 287:18 296:9 297:3 300:2,6,15 302:15 302:16 303:4,22,22 306:20 308:5,11,19 308:21 309:8,16 310:1,15,16,19 311:20,24 313:5,10 315:13 319:2 320:11,15 330:8 337:3 timeframe 247:5 times 234:24 239:1,2 253:14,15,15 257:11 259:19 267:17 286:4 291:21 295:19 307:7 331:1 TMI 318:14 today 218:1 222:2 230:7,8 289:16 291:3 292:14 313:10 315:22 316:7 322:24 325:2 331:12 336:8 together 236:13 241:1 246:8 260:13 262:12 267:8 271:22 275:11,13 332:6 334:3 told 229:3,21 265:20 279:21 283:1 284:14,25 298:8 323:18,20 324:16 324:16,25 325:21 333:21 334:24 tomorrow 263:2 ton 220:21 too 229:22 234:24 253:14 277:22 283:2 took 224:3 252:12 257:5 293:10 294:2 top 224:5 277:17 303:12 315:21 topic 323:12 topless 288:24 289:3 307:23 329:2 totaling 220:23 touch 268:24 269:1,8 336:25 touched 320:19 touching 289:5 towards 308:16 trace 232:7 trade 229:1 traded 227:13 trading 227:12 228:14 229:8 229:11 traditional 286:16 trafficking 314:16,17 transaction 226:8 transactions 260:16 transcribed 338:4 transcript 338:6 transcription 338:1,6 TRANSCRIPTIO... 338:14 travel 229:21 230:10 232:3 255:10 270:3 275:10 329:21 traveled 272:10,15 274:1 275:13 287:16 302:22 traveling 255:21 Treasury 271:5 treatment 219:23 trial 220:20 221:6,7 233:7 290:20,24 292:11 294:3 296:15 317:8 tried 264:1 274:8 trip 241:1 243:7 244:15 248:2,12,16,19,21 249:4 250:5,13 251:7,22,25 252:4 252:11,12 255:11 255:15,17,19 256:7 256:17 257:10 258:16 trips 253:4,17 255:13,22 256:3,10,19 270:16 true 220:3,6 224:4 230:9 242:15 265:22 285:8,9 291:4 294:11 306:13,25 307:2 309:4 325:3 325:18 336:4 338:6 truly 251:11 283:22 Trump 253:24 317:13 trust 283:9 trusts 283:5 truth 296:5 298:5 299:9 302:9,10

Page 30 Page 30 try 218:9 264:24 282:20 313:11 trying 219:10 228:16 235:6 247:7,8 250:7 252:15,20,21 253:18 261:2 286:9 290:7 314:6,7 315:3 329:14 Tucker 268:11,14 269:4,9 270:2,5,6 turned 261:22 334:11 turning 294:10 TV 238:13,19,20,20 313:13 317:13 twice 257:14 265:6 two 226:2,3,4,23 255:13 281:24 289:19 290:1 291:9,10 295:19 308:18 type 230:16 287:12 types 242:20 typewriting 338:5 typically 305:20 U ubiquitous 287:23 Uh-huh 274:21 uh-uh 318:13 ultimately 308:8 323:15 Um 245:20 unattractive 313:9 uncomfortable 287:14 unconsensual 288:13 289:21 under 219:7 247:25 250:3 287:11 292:16 294:12 295:25 308:24 338:5 underage 223:18 289:24 290:17 291:22 298:21 304:10 314:13,20 325:10 underline 229:16 understand 231:24 234:13,15 235:7 244:12 254:4 254:7 265:1 268:10 272:17 297:9 311:4 311:19 312:7,15 313:8 314:20 315:1 317:10,12 329:11 332:22 understanding 288:16 299:11 320:21 understatement 310:11 understood 264:22 276:21 295:10 unhealthy 324:12 unintelligible 280:19 United 216:1,5 university 278:12 unlimited 282:1 until 229:19 294:19 295:8 300:8 301:10 317:4 334:18 unusual 325:14 up 218:21 220:19 222:3 225:5,5 226:25 227:1,23 234:6 241:7 255:19 263:15 274:9 279:9 279:17 281:16 306:17 311:9 314:23 320:17 330:10 upon 223:12 317:7 upstairs 309:18 us 217:13 236:5,6 241:10 246:8 281:16 299:8 302:3 336:24 use 251:19,20 264:1 270:22 323:16 325:24,25 used 221:16 230:9 234:25 246:23 257:11,12 281:5 using 254:10 294:6 301:23 U.S 216:10 V V 217:1 vacations 312:14 value 318:20 varied 225:15 various 283:12 varying 299:3 Vegas 316:16 version 327:23 versus 289:24 very 223:7 225:3 227:4 228:25 239:21,21 242:7,7,9,16 243:13 243:15,15 244:10 252:17 261:25 262:10,10 263:20 265:18 267:2,18 271:20 274:24 275:10,13 276:25 276:25 277:8 279:6 279:8 280:16,16 283:21 287:4 290:1 292:21 294:20 296:7 309:11 312:12 313:9 314:5 316:15 317:2 323:14 335:13,15 335:24 336:11,21 view 296:8 297:20 299:22 viewed 315:13 viewpoint 296:15 Vineyard 259:8 Virgin 276:4 visit 260:9 274:4 319:24 visited 270:10 visiting 239:12

Page 31 Page 31 W W 217:1 wait 227:21 walked 328:3,8 want 219:6,19 220:12,14 229:15,22 235:14 235:16 236:13 238:2 243:11,21 244:4,11 247:17 255:4,17 258:6 259:4,5 264:10,23 268:9 271:17 274:16 284:1,3 285:23,25 287:10 289:24 290:11,16 293:2,7 295:10,13 298:22,25 299:1,7 302:1,1,2,8 307:5 315:3,20 318:14,15 319:5 321:24 327:9 327:10,17 328:16 wanted 218:21 219:18 224:23 248:10,11 264:6 276:22 280:24 291:16 293:1 318:22 320:16 336:23 wants 318:22 war 279:21,23,24 280:4 warmth 321:23,24 warrant 322:6 wasn't 222:16,17 229:20 230:16 264:11,12 306:1,3,8 311:20 315:16 317:20 318:8 319:1,12 321:1 324:2 335:21 watching 325:12 way 220:4 222:6 223:11 224:2 229:18 230:11 232:2 239:25 244:21 251:13 257:17,18 264:2 265:13,14 267:11,12 287:14 291:24 296:6 299:15 305:11 310:4 313:10 317:4 318:18 321:13 333:17 334:4 335:19 we 217:6,12,24 218:1,15 218:17,18,18,22 220:15 224:6,11 225:10,10,14,15,20 227:5 234:2,12 235:15 236:5,6,13 237:4,5 238:25 240:11,25 241:1 242:8 249:8 256:4 261:24 263:10 266:18 267:8 268:18,24 274:8,11 274:19 280:7 281:17 285:13,19 285:25 294:25 297:11,17 298:3,4 300:3 307:9 312:10 313:10 315:21 318:12 319:16 320:13,19 321:22 323:12 331:16 333:3 336:8,9,12,18 336:18,19,23 wealth 284:5 week 286:11 306:8,9 weekend 316:16 weird 219:7 252:9 311:2 331:10 well 217:22 221:2,9,18,24 227:21 228:6,7 229:2,19,21 230:13 232:10 233:11,16 237:22,25 238:4,8 238:12 239:2,20 240:3 241:7,8,17 243:1 245:2,21 246:12,15 247:10 249:5 251:3,6 255:19 257:5 260:18,25 261:6,18 264:8 267:1,3 268:5 270:6,10,10,14 271:20 274:15,17 275:2 277:20 280:6 280:16 284:1,4,14 284:25 285:13 288:4,10,20 291:17 292:18 298:21 303:19 307:21 309:24 313:4 314:24 315:13 319:24 320:10 321:23 323:13 325:6,19 went 220:12 231:19,21 233:8 235:15 236:10 240:25 241:1 243:8 248:2 248:12 250:5 253:16 255:12 256:4,10,12,14,15 256:18 258:16 259:18 261:11 265:12 270:13 271:22 272:14 276:9,10,12 308:18 312:14 315:6 318:7 321:10 333:21,24 weren't 277:10 297:24,25 316:8 Wexner 229:16,21,22 242:22 281:3,4,8 283:6,7 283:16 Wexner's 282:22 283:13 we'll 218:7 253:13 281:14 285:17 291:9 300:4 336:19,25 we're 218:5,16 222:4 234:2 234:3 241:11,23 242:4 244:2 245:12 252:14 279:7 281:16 290:12 293:19 295:5 299:14 300:3 305:15 313:20 316:3,4 318:11 320:10 325:8 336:14 we've 224:11 245:14 274:11,13 285:21 310:13 314:4 325:8 whatever 222:5 228:1 230:10 257:7 270:23 277:11 284:4,6 285:10 287:11 295:13 298:5 316:21 324:16,16 326:1 whatnot 285:6 what's 220:24,24 238:12,13 262:13 277:24 320:21 322:20 whenever 299:12

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