And I know I would characterise originally anyway, Mr. Epstein's interested in because obviously he's the former president. But I never saw him other than I sort of be friendly on the plane, but I never, I don't believe, I don't recollect anyway, ever seen him in any other context. I don't remember him at his house in New York, like I thought I'd, I don't believe he ever went to the island. And I think that was just a, that was the story that, I did. Do you know one way or the other, whether their relationship continued without you, like when you kind of moved on past Mr. Epstein? I don't believe so. What did he say that you don't believe so? Well, I don't think they had a relationship, even when I was there. I was, I, President Clinton, liked me, and we got along terribly well. But I never saw that warmth, or that, that warmth, like, what, how he wanted to characterize it with Mr. Epstein. And so, I don't see that. I didn't see any interest in, I didn't see President Clinton being interested in Epstein. He was just a rich guy with the plane. When, when the, suddenly, in New York case kind of became public, and there was a search warrant of Mr. Epstein's house, there was like a, there was some sort of painting or picture, Mr. Clinton and, and like a blue dress that had been signed. Did you know, do you know where he got that picture? I, I, I saw it, it was in the press. So you never observed that in his, no. No. No. I thought it was hideous. What's that again? I thought it was hideous. And, but you had never, so you don't know sitting here today, where Mr. Epstein got it, the circumsided of what you got it. No. Do you know of any other gifts or paraphernalia or art or pictures that, former President Clinton gave to Mr. Epstein? Um, no. I mean, if he, maybe, gave to me gift, I don't know, I've no knowledge of that. And then, going back to the top if we were talking about before our last break, well, when you, you said something yesterday, the very beginning of a conversation, that when you first met Mr. Epstein, and you ultimately have sex with him, that he had, I'll use the word erectile dysfunction, but he had issues having sex. That's what he told me. That's what he told you. Yeah. Okay. And, and then over the years, you said, sometime in the 90s, you started taking testosterone. Yes. Well, I don't know if it was in the 90s. I don't remember when he started, but it wasn't, he had patches, testosterone-stero patches. Ah, okay. Um, dermal. Like on his arm. Yes. Okay. And then he was ridiculous because you shouldn't take more than one, but sometimes he had, like, well, I'm like, what are you doing? It's like unhealthy. Okay. Um, from what you observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have challenges sexually over the years, or do you think that whatever he told you, whatever issue he told you he had, was fixed. Nothing was a lie. You think it was lying about what? About his erectile dysfunction. Oh. You mean, you never, you don't think he ever had any issues. You think he just told you that? I have done this what I believe today. But given, if any of the stories are true, you wouldn't have had the erectile dysfunction, the thing had a prior person for Christ's sake. Well, that's, well, that's one of the reasons for my questions. I mean, you're right. I mean, and again, where we're, we've talked about this, a fair amount, but what did, like, the stories of what masseuses, underage and overage, have said about him, is, are, you know, and what he liked, what he demanded that they do, whether it's watching him masturbate, or, um, pinching his nipples, you know, kind of things that are, unusual. Do you believe that? Like, do you, from what you saw, from what you observed, from what you did, when you're related with him, is that true? I, well, the bulk of what I read, he did not have sex. So that is consistent with what he told me, actually. And his masturbating, that is also consistent with what I knew myself. And, I'm thinking he's a, a bad word, or... Please, you can just whatever word you need. Yes? Blue jobs. Okay. He liked low jobs. Okay. That, I did observe. Then you didn't seem to have a near-actile dysfunction for low jobs. But, sex, he didn't have. So when, I, read the stories about, the allegations of sexual rape, I find that, challenging, because that was not his motor-soperant. From my perspective. But, when you read about, um, low jobs, that, that, that, that would be consistent with, would be consistent as, would masturbation. Yes? Did, you talk to, moussuises or women, either he was, in relationship with, or, um, who asked you about, working with him, did you tell them, yes, he likes low jobs, yes, he'll masturbate in front of you, like, did you have conversations with, any of those, with women, about what, Mr. Epstein liked, or what would make him happy, or things like that, I don't have any memory, of telling anybody about that, I think I may have joked, like saying, on the go, do they, like, from a sex in the city, seeing that, uh, he's, but not, I never instruct, the question you're asking me, sorry, let's just be clear. Did I ever instruct, anyone had to pressure, Mr. Epstein, your question, no. Um, and you said this earlier, but I want to just, you, you kind of said it on, on your own, I want to ask the question, just so I make sure that, there's no confusion. Um, when, when you, over the years, um, sorry, yeah, of course, please. I just want to say, the idea that I would have to explain to a woman, how to satisfy Mr. Epstein, is painting him, so because he clearly was able to explain himself, he didn't need an interlocker to explain what he liked. He's been doing this, obviously, with this, some version of this story, his whole life, and did not require any help from me. Then, um, so did you, did you, did you ever observe him, having sex with a masseuse, regular intercourse, not a blowjob, nothing else, were you either walked in or you were in the wrong? I never saw it, I've seen have sex with any of us. Um, I'm not sure, I've seen have sex with any of us. Um, and so how about, um, oral sex? Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex, whether you were in the room or walked in or... I never saw anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No. Um, but you said earlier, you did see him masturbating in front of masseuses. I don't know if I said that. I don't know if it's... Okay, sorry. Let me ask a question. Sorry, sorry. No, that's fair, that's fair. I, I, I, I said I saw him, I'm sure I saw him in a, what some people could define as sexual contact, because there's somebody who could not have their clue, or topless, I would say maybe. I, I could say that. If I saw him having, uh, masturbating when someone was like, I don't recall that, I don't have a specific memory of it. But no, I don't, I didn't say that. Okay, I don't understand, that's fair. That's okay. Surely I try to put words in your mouth. No, no, no, that, that, that's, that's why you know what it's like. So, um, and you, you said, I think, in passing, maybe not in passing, you're straight about, about, you know, whether, whether other people who travel with him would give massages or, so that would, I say that I'm referring mostly to the island or potentially New Mexico. Um, but also, the, is Palm Beach residents or even in New York? Um, do you know, do you have a list of names in your head or, um, names that come to mind of people that you know did get massages when they were with Mr. Epstein? No, there's no list. There's no list of people getting massages. I don't have, I can barely recall people. I can barely recall, I, I struggled to recall actual people that I met and, I, I met a long time before I had, even forgotten that, about Mr. Kennedy or I probably brought it up yesterday, it just came to my mind now. So, I don't have, and there's no list. There was never a list. There was no, or signing none that I ever saw, none I ever heard of, none that I ever witnessed, none that I, there's no list. There's never been a list. And you never heard Mr. Epstein talk about such a list. Never. And you never had Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control over somebody because of what he knew about what they had done or had photos of them. I never heard him, no, I never heard him ask questions about that. I never heard him. So, I've been present many times with Mrs. Eusses. I never who presumably could or maybe did massage somebody. I'm not saying whether they don't, I'm not just in the gutter. I never heard him ask any question of any masseuse who may have given a massage to a friend. It was on the island or in Palm Beach or anywhere else for that. Any details about that massage. Like, does he ever fucking foot? No, and I never heard that. It's weird. And I think at one of the bricks today, your lawyer may have showed you something that just came out in the paper I think this morning or last night, a letter that is attributed to you associated with this birthday book from 2003 that we talked about yesterday. Did you see that letter? I did. Is that, in fact, does it look like your handwriting or something you wrote? So, I don't remember the letter. But it does look like my handwriting and it does look like my name. And it looks like it could be real. But I have no memory of writing that. And I don't remember it at all. Do you remember what the birthday book, as they're calling it, would it look like? Like, how I was put together? I do. What do you remember about it? I remember it was leather bound. I remember it being about yay big. It was big. So you're saying it looks like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches? Yes, it was like sort of like folio size, I guess, or something like that. And like this. And it was brown and thick. But this thick. Okay. And. So just, so you, so I understand. On heavy stock paper. Heavy stock paper, like 14 inches high. That looks like right. And then around like. Well, A4. A4 is okay. We had A4 because it was done on heavy stock paper. But I can't remember if it was folio size paper. Or it could have just been A4. Oh, I see. So it could have just been letter size or it might have been legal size. Yes. Heavy stock paper. Yes. And. So the folks that submitted letters were given the stock paper. Or how were the letters, or did you be like glue or something that letters to the stock paper? Every which way. So I've given the paper and they did their own thing. Some would send me some scrap of paper and I would put it on the thing. I didn't get because they get straight to Epstein and I was just told to put them in. Like I said. And how was it bound? It went to a professional binder. Who did it like a book that you'd seen the library? So like, like the glue that keeps a regular book a novel that you would read together. It was bound that way. I believe so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a professional book binder. And then after you presented it, or after it was presented to him when he turned 50, did you see the leather bound book that he'd keep it somewhere in particular? It was in his bookcase in some D.F. street. In Manhattan. In Manhattan. And did you see it over the years until you stopped going to the brownstone? I saw it. I know I did see it because it was right behind his desk. And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened to it. Do you remember being told or knowing where the book is now? No, but when I received in discovery those pages, I assumed that it had been found when either New York or the island was searched, and I assumed that the Southern District of New York had it. But I think you said yesterday, but just to go over it again in case you remember anything differently, you recall seeing some of the letters in discovery. I do. But you don't recall kind of seeing the leather book start to finish. No, but remember I didn't see you all discovery because they were very clever about, you know, I didn't receive all discovery period. And in fact, very important items were not given to me at all, including witness testimony from Grand Jury. So whether, so you don't know one way or the other, whether it was part of discovery, you just know that you didn't get it. It wasn't part of discovery that was given to you. Correct. But I'm absolutely sure that the Southern District of New York hid very important pieces of evidence from me. Okay. And I assumed that they eat because where else would it be if that's what it is, if it's true. Okay. So I've just so, do I put, I'll say it to you, talk to a little more about it. I said to you yesterday that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today was exactly what we did, which is to have a conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you. And I think it's very challenging to talk about everything we talked about in, you know, one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So I'll talk to Mr. Marcus about kind of what we're going to do next. If anything, there's no, and I don't, I'm not being coy or I just, I don't know yet. I don't know. So we, I have a lot of, we have some work to do. We'll do it with your lawyers to, to explain questions or follow up. And this has been very helpful. I think it's, it was you, you know, who kind of said you wanted to talk, but we gladly accept it. So I do appreciate you being willing to meet with us. And I expect that we'll be in touch. All right. This concludes the recorded, proper interview of Miss Maxwell. The time is 12.05 pm on Friday, July 25th.