level. There is of course the issue of ethanol's "energy return on investment" (EROI), forwhich estimates range from 0.8:1 to 1.6:1. Charles Hall at SUNY ESF (originator of the EROl concept in the 1970's) published recent EROls for oil (10-20); Tar sands and Shale Oil (3-5); Nuclear (5-15) and Wind (15-20,