401 1 MR. Okay. Do you know if any 2 other inmates in the SHU are allowed to have 3 medications in their cell? 4 MS. : I don't know. 5 MR. : How many changes of 6 clothing and linens are inmates allowed to have 7 in the SHU? 8 MS. : I think one. 9 MR. It's supposed to be a 10 one-for-one exchange? 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. for both linens and 13 clothing? 14 MS. IIII: For linen. I'm not sure with 15 clothing. 16 MR. Okay. Why did Epstein 17 have extra clothing and extra linens in his 18 cell -- 19 MS. I don't know. 20 MR. -- on August 10th? 21 MS. I don't know. 22 MR. : You don't know. But you 23 said that was something that you did though? 24 As far as your duties? Is to be able to 25 provide people with linens and clothes? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 402 MS. IIII: I never gave out linen. Ever. Because that's done on the shift prior. MR. : What shift is that? MS. : 8:00 to 4:00. MR. : And did you ever work the 8:00 to 4:00 shift? MS. IIII: Yes. But I worked the 8:00 to 4:00. When I come in to do overtime before. But it's ncnaya in SHU. MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. So have you ever worked 8:00 to 4:00 in the SHU? MS. : I think I have. MR. : And do you remember doing giving - doing the linens? : I never gave linen. : You never gave linens. Never. What about the clothing? e. Never. When is that done? I give toilet paper. Say that MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. again? MR. done? MS. When is the clothing I don't know. 403 1 MR. No? And did you ever 2 provide Epstein with additional clothing or 3 linens? 4 MS. : Never. 5 MR. : Do you know of anyone 6 that has? 7 MS. 8 MR. You never witnessed 9 anyone provide him anything extra? 10 MS. : No. 11 MR. : Do you know if providing 12 inmates with extra clothing and linens is a 13 security risk? 14 MS. : I don't know. 15 MR. : No? If you saw that an 16 inmate had extra clothing or linens, would you 17 do anythin about it? 18 MS. : I mean I'd ask. 19 MR. : Who would you ask? 20 MS. The officer I'm working with. 21 MR. : And did you ever have to 22 do that? 23 MS. : No. 24 MR. : So you never witnessed 25 anybody? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 404 MS. : Because I never saw it. No. MR. : Okay. And when you're looking in doing your counts and your rounds, are you looking for things like that? Of like MS. : Not really. MR. : You're just looking for the person? You're not looking to see what's going on in their cell? MS. IIII: Correct. Sometimes they don't even let you see their cell. They're like standing in the window blocking the window. MR. : But it's your understanding though it's supposed to be a one- for-one exchange? MS. : Yes. MR. Do you know what material was used to take Epstein's life in August of 2019? MS. MR. : I don't know. • Do you know if Epstein was given any special privileges to have extra clothing? MS. : I don't know. MR. : If he was, do you know EFTA00117743

405 1 who would rovide that? 2 MS. • I don't know. 3 MR. : Do you know if there was 4 anything else that was in Epstein's cell that 5 should not have been here? 6 MS. : Only the CPAP machine. 7 MR. : Okay. Tell me about cell 8 searches. What are the requirements for when - 9 you said your typical shift is I guess the 10 afternoon shift? Right? Or do you call it 11 evening shift I guess? 12 MS. Yes. 13 MR. Is that the 4:00 to 14 10:00? 15 MS. : 4:00 to midnight. 16 MR. : 4:00 to midnight. Sorry. 17 What are the cell search requirements during 18 that shift? 19 MS. I don't know. 20 MR. Did you ever read the 21 post orders with regard to that? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : But they're in the SHU? 24 You just didn't read them? 25 MS. IIII: Right. 406 1 MR. Do you want to - have 2 any? We're almost there. Well while I'm going 3 thought the uestions can you just find that? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Have you ever heard that 6 during your shift you're supposed to conduct 7 five cell searches? 8 MS. : No. 9 MR. Random cell searches? 10 MS. 11 MR. . Did you ever witness 12 anybody conducting cell searches when you -- 13 MS. • No. 14 MR. 15 MS. 16 MR. No. Do you know if any 17 cell searches were conducted on August 9th or 18 August 10th? 19 MS. 20 MR. Do you know what a cell 21 search is? 22 MS. IIII: When you go in there and search 23 their cell. 24 MR. Right. Of an inmate. 25 And you never observed that in the SHU? -- were working the SHU? 407 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. : Did they ever teach you 3 that during training that you're supposed to do 4 that? 5 MS. : Mm. I don't recall. 6 MR. : You don't recall? It's 7 just something that you never-ever witnessed? 8 MS. : Never. Never saw it. 9 MR. : Even when you were 10 working that like earlier shift? You know when 11 you're doing your OT or your regular shift? 12 Never once witnessed a cell search. 13 MS. : Never. 14 MR. : And do you know - of 15 things that you do know in there, would any of 16 that be considered contraband? That was in 17 there? Now that you know that medication was 18 in there. The CPAP machine. Or the extra 19 linens. Or the extra clothing. 20 MS. : In his cell? 21 MR. Mm-hmm. 22 MS. 23 MR. • Do you want to show her 24 some of these pictures just so she can get a - 25 know what we're talking about here? So is this 408 1 L Tier as we're referring to? And is the outer 2 gate that you were standing at that you were 3 talking about? 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Alright. And then when 6 you say you're staying at the lower part of the 7 steps, is it about right there that you were 8 standing? 9 MS. : I was standing over here. 10 MR. : Over there? Do you have 11 a pen? Do you just mind marking it? So that's 12 where you were standing? Alright. And in that 13 picture, can you see where Epstein was? 14 MS. : From down here? 15 MR. : No-no-no. I'm sorry. Is 16 his -? I'm assuming -. 17 MS. IIII: Oh! No-no-no. Because he's on 18 this side. 19 MR. : Right. So we can see 20 part of the two when it's crossed. But does 21 this look like Epstein's door? 22 MS. IIII: This is the first door on the 23 right. Yeah. 24 MR. And from what you can see 25 from where you were standing, did that look EFTA00117744

409 1 like what ou saw? 2 MS. IIII: I didn't see all of this. I 3 saw like here. Because I'm on the door. So 4 he's doing CPR like here. So I didn't see all 5 that. 6 MR. : Alright. So you couldn't 7 see all that extra clothing and linens right 8 there? 9 MS. No. 10 MR. : Does that look like a lot 11 of clothin and linen to you? 12 MS. • Yes. 13 MR. : Here's a couple extra 14 pictures of some different like advantage 15 point. Does that all look like extra clothing 16 to you? 17 MS. IIII: Yes. And there's the machine 18 right here. 19 MR. : That's the CPAC machine? 20 CPAP? 21 MS. Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. Again though, you 23 don't know what he actually hung himself with? 24 MS. I don't know. 25 MR. : Is this the way that he 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 410 would usuall lay on his bed? MS. Yes. MR. : Was he the top bunk guy then? And do you know where would usually slee MS. I don't know. MR. : Is it only like -? MS. Because he's always on the floor. MR. : Okay. But I see that the top one doesn't actually have it. It doesn't look like it has a -- Right. A mattress. -- mattress. So do you would sleep like right next to MS. MR. know if him? MS. MR. I don't know. • You don't? Did you ever check in on them when you were - or that was the first ni ht you said you -? MS. • That was it. MR. : So did you ever observe him in a sleep state before? MS. IIII: Because he's never really there. Epstein 411 1 MR. Yeah-yeah-yeah. I'm 2 saying during sleeping hours. Did you ever see 3 Epstein prior to this instance? Prior to 4 August 9th have you ever seen Epstein sleeping 5 in his cell? 6 MS. IIII: When he comes back he lays 7 there on the floor. On the mattress on the 8 floor. 9 MR. 10 that, would you see where 'has? Prior to 11 this incident? 12 MS. IIII: Oh be up. So I never 13 seen like where is. Like is always 14 up. 15 MR. 16 that room? 17 MS. : It was these two. 18 MR. 19 bunkbed? 20 MS. : Yeah. One. 21 MR. : So if I'm assuming if 22 he's sleeping on the floor then would be 23 sleeping next to him. 24 MS. IIII: There. But I don't know if 25 this was because wasn't there. Or he SO wiiiliou would observe Is there only one bunk in Yeah. So the one 412 1 could have been on top. I don't know. 2 MR. Okay. So if this is 3 where took him off of, is that what you 4 couldn't see that from the door form that 5 vantage point? 6 MS. : Yeah. I can't see that. 7 MR. : You couldn't see that. 8 Okay. So did you ever notice that type of 9 medication in there before? 10 MS. : No. 11 MR. : And that's 12 believe that shouldn't have been 13 though? 14 MS. • Yes. 15 MR. Does anything here look 16 out of the ordinary to you? With what -? 17 MS. IIII: What's in the (Indiscernible 18 *04:54:17 ri ht here? 19 MR. : I don't know. I'm asking 20 you. Does any of that look out of the ordinary 21 to you? 22 MS. IIII: Yeah. There's couple. 23 Whatever's in the bag. 24 MR. : Okay. But you never went 25 in there. You never saw any of this? something you in there EFTA00117745

413 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. : And cell searches were 3 never conducted. So no one even went in to 4 ever check to see what was in these cells. 5 MS. : Correct. 6 MR. : Here's three additional 7 pictures if you want to look. Does any of this 8 stuff look abnormal to you? 9 MS. • All these. 10 MR. Everything? Looks 11 abnormal? 12 MS. The medication. 13 MR. the medication? And it 14 was never discussed with anyone about cell 15 searches? Ever. In the three - you know two 16 and a half months that you were in there? 17 MS. IIII: That (Indiscernible *04:55:35) 18 in there. 19 MR. Okay. And did you ever 20 get to see what it was that Epstein used to 21 hang himself? 22 MS. 23 MR. • No. Alright. Rather 24 than have you do all those individual, I'm 25 going to just separate this. If it's okay with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 414 your attorneys. Just have her do the top one. Unless you prefer to -. MR. FOY: No. That's fine. Initial that one. MR. Here. Keep these away from that. I'll just keep everything next to her anywa MR. : And the -. MR. That's fine. (Indiscernible *04:56:07) she didn't know about it anyway. How were Epstein's interactions with other inmates? MS. : I don't know. MR. Did you ever see him interact with other inmates? MS. : He's never there. No. MR. Did you ever see him interact with his cellmates? MS. : No. MR. No. You said -. But the last time you interacted with him was just that one raisin of the hand. MS. : Yeah. MR. : Was it surprising you to notice that there was no cellmate in there with 415 1 him? 2 MS. : No. 3 MR. : So did it even cross your 4 mind that there was always a cellmate with him 5 prior to that time? 6 MS. : No. 7 MR. : Did you ever -? Were you 8 ever told that was removed from the 9 institution? 10 MS. 11 MR. . And is that something - 12 being that's the high-profile nature that he is 13 that like -? Is that something that you would 14 notice though? That like hey this guy usually 15 has a cellmate. He's not in there right now. 16 Where is he? 17 MS. : N 18 MR. : Did even cross -? 19 MS. Cross my mind? No. 20 MR. Didn't cross your mind. 21 You're just looking at the people in there and 22 you're not worried about who is in there. The 23 people in there are alive. That's all you're 24 worried about? 25 MS. IIII: Yes. 416 1 MR. Did Epstein ever complain 2 about anything? 3 MS. : Not to me. 4 MR. : Do you know if he 5 complained about anything to anyone else? 6 MS. IIII: lust the time when he asked for 7 the mattress. The extra mattress. 8 MR. . That was a request 9 though. 10 MS. Yeah. 11 MR. Was it a complaint? Did 12 he say anything along with asking for an extra 13 one? 14 MS. IIII: Well how it was relayed that he 15 was complaining that he needed another 16 mattress. 17 MR. Okay. 18 MS. I don't know if you want to 19 take that as 20 MR. : Did you ever hear him 21 complainin about other inmates? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. No. Never complained 24 about bei2g_in the SHU versus somewhere else? 25 MS. IIII: No. EFTA00117746

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 417 MR. : So no complaints other than that mattress. MS. • No. MR. : Do you know if there were any threats made to Epstein? MS. : I don't know. MR. : Do you know at the time did you know why Epstein was in prison? MS. : Well he -. MR. : You said you did some internet searches or you saw some things but -. MS. IIII: Right. After the fact. But initially no. MR. : Didn't you say there were things that would populate on the computer? MS. IIII: Yeah. That's why I said after. When he initially first came in there, no. I didn't know. MR. 9th or Au MS. MR. MS. MR. : And did you have any specific feelings with regard to why he was in : I mean prior to August ust lOth. Oh. Yeah. : Yeah? Mm-hmm. 418 1 prison? 2 MS. 3 MR. : Did you ever speak about 4 Epstein with other inmates? 5 MS. : No. 6 MR. : In your opinion when the 7 medical emergency was discovered, did you and 8 act appropriately, per BOP policy? Now 9 that you've had time to reflect on it. 10 MS. IIII: Um I know now that when there's 11 a medical emergency, you're not supposed to 12 enter the cell until everybody gets there. So 13 that would be the only thing that I would say 14 like that wasn't done correctly. But as far as 15 everythin else -. 16 MR. : Now was that per 17 MS. What I'm saying or -? 18 MR. : Yeah. So the one thing 19 that you know that was incorrect. What about 20 what you did? Was there anything that you did 21 that wasn't correct? 22 MS. : If it was I don't know. 23 MR. • No-no-no. I'm asking. 24 MS. Oh now. 25 MR. : It's a genuine question. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 419 It's not a trick. MS. : Hm-mm. MR. : So you're not aware of you doing an MS. MR. Alright. But you know that went into the cell before he was supposed to. MS. : Yes. MR. • He was supposed to actually wait for someone to come and respond? MS. Yes. MR. And why is that? MS. Wh did he go in? MR. No. Why does he need to wait for them to respond? MS. IIII: Oh I don't know. That's the rule. I uess. MR. : Okay. And by you standing outside at that gate, he still wouldn't be allowed to go into the room? MS. MR. MS. : Who me? • So even the way you did. : Oh because I was there. No. From what I understand, you're supposed to wait 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 420 until peoplfjEL_ And then go in. MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. And how did you learn that? MS. IIII: After. That's what I heard them sayia9 MR. IIIIIIIIII: That's what people were telling you on August 10th? MS. : Yes. MR. MS. That you -. . Not telling me but just in conversation. Like after. MR. : What conversations did you have with people after? MS. IIII: I didn't have no conversations. I just heard them saying should have never went in there by himself. I don't even remember who said it. But somebody that was in the SHU. MR. : Did anybody say anything about your reactions? MS. : No. MR. No. Do you know if he needed to just wait for one person or a bunch of people? How does that - what did you hear with regard to that? EFTA00117747

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 421 MS. Illiiiiiiiidn't hear nothing else. MR. : When I said you I mean MS. : Oh. I don't know. MR. • Do you believe that acted appropriately? Being that you were there and you observed it. MS. IIII: What the stuff that he did? Yes. MR. : Yeah. Do you think he should have waited for someone or you think it's like - there was a medical emergency and - ? MS. IIII: I think it was a medical emergency and he was just trying to get to try to help him. MR. : Alright. And did you and know that Epstein was the only person in the cell then? Or did you not know if was in there or not? MS. IIII: When I counted, I knew that he was in there b himself. MR. : Okay. lust for background, I believe the reason why you're supposed to wait is in case it's a ruse and 422 1 someone wants to trick you to get in and then 2 you - the other person overpowers him. And now 3 has a -. 4 MS. : Ri ht. 5 MR. : So that's my point. Do 6 you know if was aware if anyone else was 7 in there? 8 MS. I don't know. 9 MR. You don't know. Not 10 something ou discussed with though? 11 MS. : No. 12 MR. : Did any supervisors or 13 staff talk with you about the incident? 14 MS. • No. 15 MR. Aside from that one when 16 Lieutenant 17 MS. Lieutenant asked me. 18 MR. . Okay. So I just want to 19 - again, when I ask you these questions just 20 make sure we say like aside from this or that. 21 So any other things aside from that instance 22 where they asked you what happened. And you 23 said you don't recall saying we didn't do the 24 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. rounds. But you do 25 recall saying it wasn't her fault. 423 1 MS. : Yeah. 2 MR. : We didn't do the rounds. 3 MS. Yeah. 4 MR. Any other questions other 5 than that? 6 MS. IIII: Um they asked me to go 7 downstairs to the lieutenant's office. And 8 then I waiiiiiiiiiinding down there. 9 MR. : But no one spoke with 10 you? 11 MS. : No 12 MR. • Did anyone even ask you 13 how you were? 14 MS. IIII: Oh the psychologist asked me 15 how I was. 16 MR. : Okay. So but did she ask 17 you about the information -? 18 MS. IIII: No. They didn't ask me 19 anything about that. 20 MR. It was just about your 21 mental wellbeing? 22 MS. : Yeah. 23 MR. : And what time did you 24 stay at the institution until on August 10th? 25 MS. IIII: I left like around after 8:00. 424 1 MR. A little bit after your 2 shift? 3 MS. Yes. 4 MR. : You didn't have to stick 5 around for anything else? 6 MS. : No. 7 MR. : Did you have to sign any 8 paperwork? 9 MS. 10 MR. You were left right 11 around the end of your shift. Did they tell 12 you to leave? 13 MS. IIII: My shift was over. They said I 14 could go. 15 MR. I just mean like did they 16 instruct you to go home. You just had a 17 traumatic experience. Or it's just your shift 18 was ended. And you left. 19 MS. IIII: My shift was ended and I asked 20 can I go now. And they said go. 21 MR. Okay. And who was that 22 who said o 23 MS. : The lieutenant. 24 MR. Do you remember which 25 lieutenant? EFTA00117748

425 426 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MR. not M? MS. MR. Okay. But you didn't have any other conversations with IIIIIII? MS. MR. Okay. Did you ever handle or touch Epstein's paperwork? Epstein's file or paperwork? Prior to your departure from the MCC on August 10th? MS. : No. MR. : So in that time from - you said you were there by yourself for 20 minutes. Did you ever go near his file? MS. IIII: I don't even know where his file is. No. MR. : Alright. Do you know if they keep files on inmates? I think they're called like - what is it a 292 or something like that? MR. : Yeah. MS. Eh no. MR. Do you know what's kept in a 292? 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. : Like when you feed an 3 inmate or when you give them -. 4 MS. IIII: Oh that's like when you log 5 into and iiiiiiiiiikay. 6 MR. : Is there also paperwork 7 that follows that or is it just logging into 8 the BOP sy/fm? 9 MS. IIII: That's logging in to the 10 system. 11 MR. : Okay. When you - during 12 the time that you were on your shift at all on 13 August 10th did you ever log into that system? 14 MS. : No. 15 MR. : So you never had to enter 16 than you fed him or you went into -? 17 MS. : No. 18 MR. : And you checked on him or 19 anything like that? 20 MS. No. 21 MR. : When would that be done? 22 MS. : At the earlier part of the day 23 or when you feed. 24 MR. So around what time? 25 MS. : After 4:00. 427 1 MR. After 4:00 a.m.? 2 MS. No 4:00 p.m. 3 MR. : 4:00 p.m. So when you 4 say the earlier part of the day, you mean the 5 later part of the day? 6 MS. IIII: No like when the shift starts 7 at 4:00 after you feed. That's the time I see 8 them like log in to say okay they've been fed. 9 But I've never really -. One day, I actually 10 like was in there because was showing me 11 how to do it. But I don't necessarily do that. 12 Somebody else will do it. 13 MR. : And what was he showing 14 you how to do? 15 MS. : How to log it. 16 MR. : So what is it that you're 17 supposed to log? You know in the system? 18 MS. IIII: I vaguely remember because I 19 don't did it - he only showed me that one time. 20 I think you're supposed to like log if they 21 showered, log if they were feeding, and I don't 22 know, if you gave out stuff. I guess. I don't 23 know. 24 MR. : But you don't - you're 25 not aware of an actual paper file? 428 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. : Where those things are 3 monitored or tracked? 4 MS. 5 MR. And you never did that 6 for any inmates? 7 MS. : No. 8 MR. : You never filled out 9 paperwork or kept files for inmates? 10 MS. : No. Never. 11 MR. : So obviously you never 12 handled or touched Epstein's paperwork? 13 MS. : Never. 14 MR. : Or his file? Did you 15 ever remove any of Epstein's paperwork from his 16 file? 17 MS. : N 18 MR. : Did you ever remove or 19 destroy an of Epstein's paperwork? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : Did you ever remove or 22 destroy - that's a repetitive question. Did 23 you ever remove or destroy any signs related to 24 Epstein to include signs that said he was 25 required to have a cellmate? EFTA00117749

429 430 1 MS. 2 MR. . Did you access any BOP 3 databases such as BOPWARE, SENTRY, TRUVIEW, 4 after Epstein was discovered on August -- 5 MS. No. 6 MR. -- 10, 2019? That was 7 no? 8 MS. 9 MR. Did you report - was that 10 the last time you reported to work? On August 11 10th? 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Were you placed on 14 administrative leave? 15 MS. : Yes. 16 MR. : By whom? 17 MS. : Mm. I don't know. I got a 18 phone call saying that I was placed on 19 administrative leave, but I don't remember by 20 who. And then the letter. 21 MR. : Did you ever receive an 22 explanation verbally? 23 MS. : No. 24 MR. : No? So the person told 25 you that you were on administrative leave -? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. : Yes. MR. : That was the extent of the conversation? MS. IIII: And then I said so when do I come back? And they was like you'll get a call like when or if ou're supposed to come back. MR. : Okay. And what did that administrative leave change to a different type of leave? MS. : Suspended without pay. MR. : Indefinite suspension? Was that it? Is that what you're on right now? MS. Yes. MR. communicate with Oka .id you after Epstein's body was discovered? MS. No. MR. Did you communicate -? MS. : We communicated never because we was not allowed to communicate. Even - well before -. MR. : What about -? I'm talking about right after the body was discovered. People respond. And then did you communicate? You talked about the one instance 431 1 outside of the elevator. 2 MS. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. No. 3 MR. : But you guys didn't 4 actually converse? You were just both talking 5 to the lieutenant? 6 MS. : Ri ht. 7 MR. : And at no point also did 8 you ever converse? 9 MS. : No. 10 MR. 11 somewhere 12 MS. 13 MR. Since then? Like outside 14 of work? 15 MS. 16 MR. You don't recall anytime? 17 So if he says that you guys talked it up, you 18 don't remember that? 19 MS. IIII: We never spoke until we had a 20 union meeiiiiiiiii, 21 MR. : That's what I'm asking. 22 Ever. 23 MR. : Oh never spoke until that 24 union meeting. That was just like two weeks 25 ago. But we never ever spoke. • Didn't you guys talk 432 1 MR. That's kind of like - 2 when I say EVER, that means ever. Any time 3 from then until this moment? 4 MS. IIII: From then until the union 5 meeting, we never spoke. 6 MR. : Alright. So what was 7 discussed at the union meeting? 8 MS. IIII: That we're going to have an 9 investigation and the union is there for us. 10 They're su ortin us. Stuff like that. 11 MR. But did you discuss this 12 with 13 MS. What? 14 MR. The investigation? 15 MS. 16 MR. Did you ever discuss like 17 what you were going to tell us? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. Or what you were going to 20 say durin an interview? 21 MS. : No. 22 MR. So what did your 23 communication entail? 24 MS. IIII: With =.? It wasn't with 25 . But he was present. So basically the EFTA00117750

433 1 union was saying you know they're fighting for 2 us. They're there for us. They're supporting 3 us. You know that was along the line. We're 4 going to have to meet with you guys to be 5 investigated. lust tell the truth. That was 6 along the line. 7 MR. • Okay. 8 MS. : But my conversation wasn't 9 directly with . It was - we were both 10 being told. 11 MR. So aside from the union 12 and with that interaction with , was 13 anybody else that you discussed the Epstein 14 incident with since August 10th? 15 MS. : No. 16 MR. 17 attorneys? 18 MS. : More or less. Mm-hmm. 19 MR. • Is there anything else 20 that you want to add to anything we've talked 21 about? Being and just keep in mind the - under 22 oath. What you just said. The union said just 23 tell the truth. The way that you get in 24 trouble from this point forward is basically if 25 you don't tell the truth. You know, anything • No. Aside from your 434 1 that we need to clarify. Anything that you can 2 think about. Like maybe I should provide some 3 additional background information regarding 4 that. 5 MR. FOY: No. I don't of know anything. 6 MR. : Okay. So everything good 7 for - because I just want to pass it over to 8 see if there's anything that Agent wants 9 to ask. 10 MR. : You mentioned there was an 11 office in the SHU for the lieutenant. 12 MS. Yes. 13 MR. : Where is that located? 14 MS. : Upstairs outside of the door 15 for 10 South. 16 MR. : Who normally sits there? 17 MS. The lieutenant. 18 MR. : Who would that be? 19 MS. Lieutenant IIII. 20 MR. : Have you ever been in that 21 office? 22 MS. No. 23 MR. : Do you know anyone else that 24 utilizes that office? 25 MS. IIII: No. 435 1 MR. : After the incident happened, 2 you -? After Epstein was removed, did you 3 any lieutenants at the MCC? 4 5 MS. Did I see any lieutenants? MR. : Yeah. Which lieutenants 6 you see at the MCC? 7 MS. IIII: Lieutenant IIII, 8 there? 9 MR. : Yeah whoever's 10 you actuaIly_see. 11 MS. IIII: Lieutenant 12 , Lieutenant 13 but she came like to help feed. 14 MR. : She came back to help 15 MS. Yes. 16 MR. : Did you 17 with her? 18 MS. : Lieutenant 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MS. No. 21 MR. : How did you know she came 22 back to hel feed? 23 MS. : I was there. 24 MR. : And where was she when -? 25 MS. : Where was she when? did see have a did but who was present. Did Lieutenant getting off feed? conversation 436 1 MR. : Yeah. When you were leaving. 2 Where was she? 3 MS. : In the SHU. 4 MR. : Okay. She was in the SHU 5 physicall in the SHU? 6 MS. : Helping feed. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. What time are we talking 9 about? 10 MR. This is after the incident. 11 MR. : Oh, okay. 12 MR. : This is just for 13 clarification purposes. 14 MS. Okay. 15 MR. : I know you mentioned this 16 before, I'm just going to clarify it. A couple 17 of questions. Did you ever assist any inmates 18 with makin hone calls? 19 MS. : No. 20 MR. : Do you know that if an inmate 21 wanted to make a phone call, how would they go 22 about it? 23 MS. : They use their PIN number. 24 MR. : Is every inmate assigned one? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00117751

437 1 MR. : Can they call anybody they 2 wanted to? 3 MS. I don't know. 4 MR. : Is there a restriction on 5 certain peo le that they are allowed to call? 6 MS. I don't know. 7 MR. : Okay. Did you know that 8 inmate calls are monitored? 9 MS. Yes. 10 MR. : Do you know the difference 11 between a monitored line and the legal line? 12 MS. Meaning.... 13 MR. : So there was one line that's 14 used to make legal phone calls that's just for 15 attorneys. 16 MS. : Okay. 17 MR. : So those - that line is not 18 monitored. 19 MS. Oh 20 MR. : But the other line is any 21 calls that they make is recorded. 22 MS. IIII: Okay. But I don't know where 23 like which line is which. But I am aware that 24 there's the recorded line and the other line. 25 But I don't know which one is which. Or where 438 1 the legal line is. 2 MR. : Okay. You said it was not 3 weird Epstein was left alone with the phone. 4 Has this happened before? 5 MS. IIII: Where an inmate is in the tier 6 using the hone? Yeah. 7 MR. : Who - to your recollection - 8 which other inmates were allowed to make phone 9 calls like that? 10 MS. IIII: I don't have a name, but it's 11 not because they're allowed to make a phone 12 call like that. It's only if where their cell 13 is located, the jack's not working. So it's 14 not like they put inmates in the shower to have 15 private phone calls. It's just that if where 16 your cell is that, the jack's not working, they 17 put you -. Because they can't put you with 18 another - in another inmate's room. And they 19 can't leave you out in the open. So they place 20 you over there because the jack is closest to 21 it to make the phone call. 22 MR. : So you know who could set up 23 a call like that? Can anyone - any CO just 24 plug it in? Or does it have to be a specific 25 person who plugs it in? 439 1 MS. IIII: That I don't know. If any CO 2 could jusiii it in. I don't know. 3 MR. : You don't know. Would you 4 happen to know if Epstein had a PAC and PIN 5 assigned to him? 6 MS. IIII: I would think he would. But I 7 don't know for sure. 8 MR. : Do you recall that night when 9 set up the phone call. Did he tell you 10 who Epstein was supposed to be speaking to? 11 MS. : No. 12 MR. : That's all I have. 13 MR. : And then the two final 14 follow-ups. Just because we discussed it and I 15 kind of gave it to you from memory. But this 16 is the special housing unit post orders 17 regarding cell rotations and cell searches. It 18 just quickly says, "All SHU staff are expected 19 to conduct searches of the special housing 20 unit. The morning watch officers will conduct 21 searches of the common areas and document their 22 findings in the search section of the True 23 Scrub Program. (Phonetic Sp. *05:14:00) The 24 day watch officers will conduct a search of 25 every inmate's cell who attends recreation. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 440 The evening watch officers will conduct a minimum of five cell searches during their shift." And that's what I was just trying to get (Indiscernible *05:14:13). Just to make sure and that's just to -. If you want to just initial it and date. And also when I do need to clarify when I said the getting in trouble thing. I was talking about legally. When I said about that being truthful. MR. : So these things that you initialed. Can you date them also? Because this first set doesn't have a date on them. MR. -? MR. : There's no dates. Next to her initials. On there. MR. : Do you care if it has a date? I don't want her to have to go through everything again. She just wrote her initials. MR. FOY: Yeah. It doesn't matter. Especiall if e're only meeting one time. MR. : Okay. Sure. So just next to where you wrote your initials, do you mind just dating? I don't know if there's a reason to provide this here. I would just -. What is that you want her, EFTA00117752

441 1 You might not -. You don't have to provide it 2 to her. 3 MR. Yeah. 4 MR. Just read it after she's 5 done that. 7 subsequently that wrote a memo pretty : Weriii aware -? Maybe 6 MR. 8 much stating that he was notified -. He was 9 notified 1:50 p.m. that inmate was not 10 coming back to MCC. And he actually notified 11 Officer , SOS , and Officer 12 that inmate needed - that a cellmate needed to 13 be assigned to Epstein. 14 MS. •• I'm not aware of that. 15 MR. : Did you ever get instructions 16 like that? 17 MS. : No. 18 MR. : When you came on shift, were 19 there any instructions that came down about 20 going in and removing Inmate ' belongings 21 from the cell? 22 MS. No. 23 MR. : If an inmate was removed. 24 Let's say someone was going WAB. Do you know 25 what that is? 442 1 MS. : Um yeah. 2 MR. : With All Belongings. 3 MS. Belongings. 4 MR. : If an inmate let's say had to 5 go to court and it was notified that the inmate 6 is not coming back and was being removed by 7 WAB. Does an officer in the SHU have to go in 8 and remove all the belongings? 9 MS. IIII: Um I don't know. Because I 10 only know in the regular unit when they're 11 going WAB the bring their stuff. 12 MR. : They don't bring their stuff? 13 MS. No they do. 14 MR. : If they were. But what if 15 that person - let's say that inmate wasn't 16 notified that they're not coming back until -. 17 MS. IIII: Oh if it wasn't. Then yeah. 18 The officer would have to go in and take it 19 out. 20 MR. : And there was no instructions 21 for you gu s to go remove it? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : And I may have just 24 missed this, but you do not recall anyone 25 coming in and retrieving ' belongings? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 443 MS. No. MR. : No? And would have that happened during your shift? Before the 12:00? MS. : I don't know. MR. MR. anything about MS. MR. MR. to initial documents. MR. : Yeah. They're all - I just gave them to her. Anything else before we end this so that hopefully this will be a one- and-done? MR. M.Jothing else. MR. : Nothing else that we should talk about that we missed? That we can handle now rather than having to circle back? MR. FOY: Uh nothing. I can't think off of the toiliiiiiiiiad. MR. : We're trying to cover a lot so. MR. FOY: I am at the end. MR. Yep. From the union is : If it was? : You just don't know leaving or -? I don't know. Anything? Okay. : Get all this signed we'll go 444 1 there anything that you can think of that we 2 should be discussing? Or 0? 3 MS. GREGG: I mean I -. If OIG really 4 wants to know what led up to the death of Mr. 5 Epstein. I think that there needs to be a 6 thorough investigation of the Metropolitan 7 Correctional Center and it's pitfalls. I'll 8 just you know kind of leave it at that. And 9 I'm sure you're getting a little bit of insight 10 into what the MCC is. Not just staffing but 11 conditions for inmates as well. It failed a 12 new employee. Yes there are some things that 13 she absolutely should be taking responsibly 14 for. But what led up to the unfortunate death 15 of Mr. Epstein wasn't just August 9th and 16 August 10th. 17 MR. : Referring to the fact 18 that she was trained on people not conducing 19 rounds and counts? 20 MS. GREGG: It's a cultural issue at MCC 21 New York. Falsifying of documents to pass 22 program reviews. Inadequate training of 23 employees. Um an employee may go through an IF 24 training but most of that training is three 25 weeks or so. Most of the time, you'll find EFTA00117753

445 1 yourself sitting down in the training center I 2 believe because they don't have someone to 3 actually train you. But they'll tell you sign 4 the training sheets. So if something like this 5 comes up, it implies that the employee received 6 the training. When actually I was present to 7 receive the training but nobody taught me. The 8 same thing is you know for annual refresher 9 training. There's a cultural issue at the 10 Metropolitan Correctional Center. Is it 11 agency-wide? I don't know. I've only been at 12 MCC New York. But there are some pitfalls. 13 There have been inmates that's prior to Mr. 14 Epstein and since Mr. Epstein and I believe the 15 inadequate managing of the building plays a big 16 role in those deaths. Assaults of staff and 17 inmates. And you guys, I guarantee you've seen 18 it. I'm sure there's something you've seen 19 that you're like, wow that's a little bit crazy 20 what just seems very egregious it's because 21 it's not being run the correct way. It's 22 failing staff and inmates every day. 23 MR. : Well thank you for that. 24 On that note, I know we talked about you know 25 how you observed other staff members like 446 1 pretty much not conducting the round sheets the 2 way they did it, as well as the supervisor that 3 told you to sign the training that you never 4 actually attended. Can you think of anything 5 else that you were asked to do like that from 6 anyone? Or observed anyone else? As like a 7 training or an experience that was - now that 8 you're thinking back on it - wrong? 9 MS. IIII: Um.... I mean I haven't really 10 been there that long. So the only thing I 11 could recall was Lieutenant III was oh. I 12 think when I had my probationary year, like I'm 13 supposed to get reviewed like every quarter. 14 Like to get before I get off probation. I've 15 only got it one time. I think it's supposed to 16 be done three times. I've only got it one 17 time. 18 MR. : And were you asked to 19 sign on a quarterly basis that you received 20 that evaluation? 21 MS. IIII: I know I signed it one time 22 that I got it. But I never got the other two. 23 So just biiiiiiiiigust showing how -. 24 MR. : But they didn't actually 25 ask you to sign something? 447 1 MS. IIII: No. Ask me to sign for that. 2 No. 3 MR. : Is there any instances 4 you can think of that you like needed to sign 5 for something that you thought oh I shouldn't 6 sign for that. I didn't take this training. I 7 didn't conduct these rounds. Is there anything 8 else like that that you can think of that's 9 happened while you were at the MCC? 10 MS. IIII: I mean, like for example, like 11 she said in IF training, there's a roster with 12 a whole bunch of stuff that we're signing next 13 to. But like let's say, lieutenant so-and-so 14 is supposed to teach that class and they didn't 15 show up. But I already signed that I received 16 it. But I didn't get the actual training. So 17 I'm signing that I'm present and I'm here for 18 the trainin but I didn't actually get it. 19 MR. : So you're showing up at 20 training -- 21 MS. But I can't remember -. 22 MR. -- and they're actually 23 not conducting it and they're certifying 24 they're -- 25 MS. IIII: Right. Yeah. 448 1 MR. -- conducting the 2 training? 3 MS. IIII: Yeah. There were a couple of 4 training that we didn't get because there was 5 nobody there to teach the class. 6 MR. : And they certified that 7 they actuall - 8 MS. IIII: Yeah. I remember when I was in 9 IF, they would tell me stuff. But I never 10 walked. You're supposed to get a tour of the 11 building for when you sit in training and in 12 the SHU blah-blah-blah - you have a visual. 13 They never even did that. Like they would 14 explain like when they say down range, you have 15 to just imagine what's down range because I 16 never been in that jail and I didn't know. 17 I'm saying that to say like the training is not 18 -. You guys probably look at oh I signed or 19 you're saying this training or that she should 20 know this. But I don't actually necessarily 21 have to know it because it wasn't like taught. 22 And if I kind of learn as you go along, that's 23 why I said like it's wrong, but I tried to 24 mimic or follow what I see. Other people do. 25 And yes I've exercised poor judgment on things, EFTA00117754

449 1 but even sometimes you ask people and they tell 2 you the wrong thing. That's MCC. So even if I 3 don't know and I call and I say hey how do you 4 do this? The like oh just do this. 5 MR. : And what do you - now 6 that you've experienced this, what do you blame 7 that on? Do you also blame it on like poor 8 management or like a lack of manpower? What is 9 your thougils1 on that? 10 MS. IIII: It's both but every time 11 something happens, the officers get in trouble. 12 And the problem is it starts from the top. 13 Because if my supervisor is telling me to 14 falsify documents and I do it, I'm in trouble. 15 But Lieutenant got promoted. You 16 understand? Like the problem starts from eh 17 top. And it comes all the way down. It's not 18 being managed correctly and the manpower is 19 also not there. Like you can't take somebody 20 and tell them to work 16 hours. And remember, 21 it's a thing where I'm on probation, so I can't 22 say, no I'm not working it. So you asked me to 23 work 16 hours every day. I'm a human being. 24 I'm not a robot. I fell asleep plenty of times 25 going home. I come to work. I remember one 450 1 time I called the lieutenant's office. Like I 2 can't keep my eyes open because that's just the 3 reality of it. By the time you go home, it's 4 time for you to -. Some people don't even go 5 home. They try to sleep in the locker room 6 because the manpower is not there. And it's 7 absolutely ridiculous. For me, I started in 8 June of 2018. The indictment said 2016. 9 That's not true. To December. That's only 6 10 months. And I made my base pay because of all 11 that overtime. 12 MR. : Okay. Thank you. That's 13 all great insight. Anything else we want to 14 add? 15 MS. IIII: Mm. Nothing else. 16 MR. FOY: The only thing I can think of, 17 which you've kind of alluded to, is what it 18 feels like as a new employee. The culture. 19 The friendliness or lack thereof. The fact 20 that in a way, your trust in your colleagues is 21 undermined through your colleagues. Right? I 22 mean which makes it a difficult thing. I mean 23 if you want to talk about that part of it. 24 Right. Because it's all related. It's not I 25 just one thing. So I mean if you want to speak 451 1 on it, this would be the time to say it. 2 MS. IIII: I don't know what -. 3 MR. FOY: Hm? 4 MS. IIII: (Indiscernible *05:25:37) 5 MR. FOY: Your experience of was it a 6 friendly experience? Did you feel supported by 7 your co111222es? Like -. 8 MS. IIII: Oh. No. 9 MR. FOY: Right? Did you like it there? 10 Did it feel safe? Like -. 11 MS. IIII: Oh. No. Absolutely not. 12 Absolutely not. 13 MR. FOY: But you've got -. 14 MS. IIII: I was actually trying to - like 15 from the moment I started there, I didn't like 16 it there and I was trying to get out of there. 17 But I'm not going to quit a job and go sit at 18 home. So. The atmosphere was - like to me, I 19 didn't feel safe because if you don't have 20 enough people to work the units and something 21 happens and you hit a body alarm, who's 22 responding? If there's no nobody there. So 23 that's a problem in itself. There's been times 24 where you got one officer working two units. 25 So what if somebody died on the other unit and 452 1 the officer is on the other unit? But there's 2 been - and that's all not supposed to happen. 3 But like I said, when nothing happens it's okay 4 because nobody died. Nothing happened. But 5 when something happens, then that officer 6 working the two units gets in trouble not the 7 lieutenant that said hey I'm assigning you to 8 work these two units. And yes, we know we're 9 not supposed to work the two units. But again, 10 I don't feel like I can override my lieutenant 11 or I can override the senior officer because 12 the instruction that's being passed on from the 13 top is not correct. But who am I going to 14 tell? Because everybody in that building knows 15 from the warden all the way down knows we don't 16 have enough people. We don't have enough. 17 From day one I entered that building, that's 18 all I've been hearing. We don't have enough 19 people. We don't have enough people. People 20 get hurt because there's not enough staff to 21 respond to certain. Like when I'm on a unit 22 and inmates are fighting -. Like if the 23 inmates really wanted to take over and harm 24 you, they could have. And then who's 25 responding fast enough because maybe you hit EFTA00117755

453 1 the body alarm sometimes only three people 2 come. 3 MR. : So with all this in mind, 4 is there anything that you can think of as a 5 way to rectify these issues? 6 MS. IIII: They need staffing. And I 7 don't know if people don't stay there because 8 like the culture of MCC is just -. It needs to 9 start over. Like it needs to be cleaned out 10 and start over. And people need to follow the 11 rules and reinforce and show people the correct 12 things. Then maybe - maybe it could get 13 somewhere. But when you have new people coming 14 in and we're taught bad - and again, I'm not 15 blaming everything on me being taught bad. 16 It's what I see. What I know. And again, yes 17 I could sit and read an employee handbook. 18 Sometimes you ready stuff in the context of -. 19 Like I'm not in a camp. I'm in a high rise. 20 So the context of what you're reading in an 21 employee book refers to like you know those 22 types of institutions and not MCC. So 23 sometimes when you try to put it into 24 perspective -. 25 MR. You keep on saying camp. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 454 Do you mean like an FCI or a penitentiary? Or MS. : Yes. MR. Or are you talking about? MS. MR. Okay. MS. : Yes. Versus a high-rise building. So it's - the procedures are a little bit different. So that's why I rely on the people inside to teach me. And you'll always hear this being said. There's the BOP way and there's the MCC way because at MCC, they do it their way. MR. : Okay. Good to know. MS. : There's been -. And again because I don't know because they probably don't give you the roster. Every single time that I've came to work, I've called to switch with somebody else because I don't want to work SHU. Because I don't know how to work SHU. And it's very annoying that you have to keep having to ask somebody. There's plenty of times that I called across like somebody working 9 North, like hey you want to switch with me? And I switch. Because on a regular 455 1 housing unit, I know what I'm doing. In the 2 SHU, I don't know what I'm doing. And I was 3 even told usually they don't put probationary 4 staff to work SHU. But again, because of 5 seniority, that's all that's available. So 6 that's what I have to get. 7 MR. : Okay. Anything on that? 8 MR. liro you recall any specific 9 instances of policy violations by staff or any 10 actions that you could bring into questions 11 about other staff members at MCC? Any specific 12 instances. 13 MS. IIII: Um no. 14 MR. FOY: You're talking about like 15 contraband stuff like that? 16 MR. IIIIII: Anything. Overall. 17 MR. FOY: (Indiscernible *05:29:50) 18 MS. : I mean it comes in some -. 19 MR. : I think what he means 20 more along the lines though of like a 21 supervisor directing you to falsify a record. 22 Like that's pretty big. If they're telling you 23 sign this because you needed to take quarterly 24 SHU train . Anything else like that. 25 MS. IIII: I mean one time I got a drop 456 1 note that said an inmate wanted to rape me. 2 And I forward the email to the lieutenant and I 3 never got a call back. And I called and I said 4 -. Because that inmate is still on the unit. 5 So if the inmate really wanted to rape me, then 6 I guess he would have. So I called and I'm 7 like did you get my email? And she was like 8 yeah I got it, but that inmate ain't going to 9 do nothing to you. These are the type of 10 things that happen at MCC. How do you know 11 that inmate's not going to do anything to me? 12 What you should have did was remove me from 13 that unit or remove that inmate, but that 14 wasn't done. Inmates have threatened me. And 15 they're supposed to remove them out of the 16 building but they don't. Inmates have 17 threatened me and I have sent them to SHU. And 18 then they'll release them and then they came 19 right back to my unit. So again, it's like who 20 are you telling or complaining to at MCC? 21 Because from the top there's no help. And I'm 22 literally at the bottom. I was the last 23 officer at the time. 24 MR. : Now do you know of 25 (Indiscernible *05:31:04) corrupt officers like EFTA00117756

457 1 bringing in contraband? Is that like a problem 2 at the MCC? 3 MS. IIII: It is a problem. But I don't 4 know who brings it in. I just always wonder 5 like how did -? As far as smoking. Like 6 there's smoking all in the building. I get 7 headaches daily because of the smoking. So it 8 comes in some way. But as far as who or how it 9 comes in, I don't know. 10 MR. : And I would think it's 11 kind of easy to identify who is smoking. 12 Correct? 13 MS. IIII: Oh - the - you'll be sitting in 14 your officer's station, and you smell smoke. 15 But remember they're inmates. So by the time I 16 get out, they always have a watch person. So 17 by the time I feel like okay I smell it, it's 18 coming from here. Let me go walk the tier this 19 way, they'll be like, she coming. So they 20 already done -. 21 MR. : Now what are you 22 smelling? What kind of smoke? Is it marijuana 23 or is it -? 24 MS. : K2. 25 MR. : K2? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 458 MS. 1.2. MR. : And you can - you know the distinct smell of K2? MS. MR. MR. MS. Yes. : Um. : Was this on the SHU also? . Yes. MS. GREGG: It's the entire building and you know, I would welcome, right, if OIG said we want to tour the institution. (Indiscernible *05:32:11) and judges do. Attorneys do. Law clerks do. Right. Because it gives you a little bit of - you can actually put a visual besides seeing the photos. You can get a visual. You actually get to see what it is to be an employee there or even an inmate there. And the drug problem is absolutely rampant. The institution has no control over it. Right. So it boils down to that employee saying okay if you guys don't stop smoking, I'm locking everybody behind a door because it's making me sick. Or it's making me -. It's that kind of thing. Like they're not holding inmates responsible for incident reports. None of that stuff is happening. And it just makes 459 1 it a very bad place to work. And it makes it a 2 poor place for a new employee to work. Right? 3 And I say that wholeheartedly understanding 4 that there is some onus on Ms. There's 5 just some things as an adult you have to say, I 6 take responsibly for it. I don't think she's 7 ever come out of taking that res 8 that MCC New York failed Ms. IIII, Mr. 9 and Mr. Epstein regardless of what he was in 10 jail for, I don't believe anybody deserves loss 11 of life behind the walls of a jail especially 12 in that manner. Right? And there's just so 13 man things so when you ask questions to Ms. 14 such as, "Are there any instances of 15 falsifying documents," you're not going to say 16 to me, but I guarantee you that in reviewing 17 rosters and training records, I'm sure you guys 18 have questionable discrepancies. I'm sure 19 you've caught rosters not reflecting what 20 videos show. I'm sure you've caught employees 21 on rosters - not on rosters but attending a 22 training, but the roster says they're on sick 23 leave or annual leave. I would bet my next low 24 paycheck that that's absolute to what you guys 25 have probably seen or experienced in 460 1 investigating this whole thing. Is this 2 falling on deaf ears? I don't know. I would 3 like to hope that the death of an inmate leads 4 to some chan e. But we're two years out and -. 5 MR. : Sure. Well part of that 6 has to do with we had to wait to interview. 7 But yeah. 8 MS. GREGG: Yeah. 9 MR. : Do you have ...? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : It just made me think of 12 something. I just want to make sure just going 13 back like we were talking about to make sure 14 that we've got the like - as truthful a 15 statement as we possibly can with regard to the 16 August 9th 10:00 p.m. count. Talking about 17 video and things like that. When you remember 18 doing that count -- 19 MS. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : -- although the count 21 number was wrong, did you do the count from the 22 outside grill or did you actually walk down the 23 range? 24 MS. : No. I walked down the range. 25 MR. : And you're -? EFTA00117757

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 461 MS. : And I know like for example, like in statement, he probably was like, I don't know if she did the count. Or I'm going to say she didn't do the count because it needed to be done with me and I was sleeping. He was sleeping, so he don't' know if I did the count or not. MR. : Yeah. I'm just trying to reconcile the review of -- MS. • He signed, but -. MR. : -- of the video. MS. : But no because I saw a lot of stuff. Even in the indictment. There's a lot of things in there that's not true. Like the one thing I know I did do was that 10:00 count. For a fact. MR. : But you just don't know how they reconcile the fact that -- MS. : The numbers no. MR. • -- the numbers are off. MS. But the count. I did do that. MR. Was that just - and again, that's going to be one of those big things that's like well how do we -? If you're saying you did the count, and the numbers are 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 462 wrong, that's the -. We're going to have to - MS. : Yeah. Like I don't remember -. MR. . -- review that video and MS. -- what happened between like the 73 and the 72 and the phone call and what was said I did do that count. MR. : And again, we're not confusing a count with a round. MS. : Rounds. No. MR. : Okay. Anything else? Well I just want to thank you all so very much for the cooperation. And to the union, I want to kind of apologize for the initial interaction. MS. GREGG: Mm-hmm. MR. : I think that now talking with you, I think that you're actually - I was maybe misunderstanding maybe what you were doing. I just wanted to make sure that we weren't going to be stopping this interview every time there was a question. But you were extremely helpful. So thank you for your participation. MS. GREGG: No problem. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 463 MR. And yeah. It is -. MS. GREGG: I've got something. Can I just get iiiiiiiiiithe document that I signed? MR. : Absolutely. MS. GREGG: Or unless you just want me to take a picture of it. Whatever's easier. MR. : Um yeah. I'll get you a copy. Either a photocopy or a picture. That's fine. Okay. It is 4:20 p.m. on Tuesday, Lune 22 2021. This is Senior Special Agent and I am turning off the recorder. 464 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Marci Bratton, Transcriber EFTA00117758