LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 rounds not being conducted and being falsified 2 prior to August 10th, 2019? 3 MR. : Not to my knowledge. 4 MR. : Had you heard that the 5 rounds were not being conducted in the SHU on 6 August 9th and 10th of 2019? 7 MR. : Not to my knowledge. 8 MR. : Even after the fact, you 9 hadn't heard that, in the news and all that? 10 MR. : The news was saying a lot of 11 bad things. 12 MR. : And what about when you 13 said you go get beers with your buddies, even 14 hear it, don't you? Didn't you guys talk about 15 the fact that the rounds and the counts weren't 16 conducted in the SHU? 17 MR. : Whenever I get stuck to work 18 Nine South, those cameras might not see what 19 the inmates do, but I know they definitely see 20 what I do. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Oh, my fault. I apologize. 23 The cameras definitely don't see what the 24 inmates do. But they sure see everything I do. 25 So, when I'm up there, I try to stay on point, EFTA00113416

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 because I need my job. 2 MR. : Sure. So, point being, 3 though, do you know if people were falsifying 4 rounds? 5 MR. : Not to my knowledge. 6 MR. : No? Okay. Are you aware 7 - speaking of cameras - if the MCC SHU cameras 8 were working on August 9th and 10th of 2019? 9 MR. : I believe they was working. 10 MR. : You believe they were 11 working? 12 MR. : I believe all the cameras were 13 working back then. 14 MR. : All right. And then, had 15 you heard that they weren't working? 16 MR. : Through the media. When they 17 was talking about the cameras didn't work. 18 MR. : And what is your 19 understanding of -? Do you believe that they 20 were working, and if we're not able to get 21 recordings, do you believe that someone deleted 22 those recordings? 23 MR. : No. I don't think anybody that 24 bold. 25 MR. : No? EFTA00113417

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 MR. : No. 2 MR. : Have you heard anything 3 about deletion of cameras, or people knocking 4 cameras offline, or -- 5 MR. : No. 6 MR. : -- them not recording? 7 MR. : No. 8 MR. : No? 9 MR. : Because we don't have -. We 10 don't have access as correctional staff, to -. 11 MR. : Who would have access, to 12 be able to knock cameras offline? Or stop them 13 14 MR. : I guess the -- 15 MR. : -- from recording. 16 MR. : I guess the higher ups. So, 17 I'm not too sure. 18 MR. : Would the Comtech? 19 MR. : I mean, yeah, a possibility. 20 MR. : Okay. But you're not 21 really sure? 22 MR. : I'm not really sure, sir. 23 MR. : Okay. Do you know if 24 Epstein was in his assigned cell on August 25 10th, 2019? EFTA00113418

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 1 MR. : I believe so. But I don't work 2 Nine South, so I can't tell you. 3 MR. : Had you heard anything 4 about him not being in his assigned cell? 5 MR. : No. 6 MR. : No. Do you know if cell 7 searches were being conducted in the SHU in 8 July and August of 2019? 9 MR. : They should have been. Every 10 day, we have to do -. If you work in any post, 11 Nine South to any housing units, you're 12 supposed to conduct five shakedowns per shift. 13 MR. : Is that five shakedowns, 14 though, during the day and night watch? 15 MR. : Day watch. 16 MR. : But not 17 MR. : Evening watch. 18 MR. : But not morning watch, 19 right? 20 MR. : Not morning watch. 21 MR. : So, you're supposed to do 22 five during the day, and five during the night? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : And do you know if they 25 were being conducted in the SHU? EFTA00113419

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 1 MR. : To my knowledge -- 2 MR. : Yeah. But you don't know 3 4 MR. : I believe (Indiscernible 5 *01:24:48). 6 MR. : -- anything about them 7 not being conducted, though? 8 MR. : No. 9 MR. : Okay. When you worked in 10 the SHU, were they conducted? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. Do you have 13 knowledge of Epstein placing a telephone call 14 in the SHU on August 9th, 2019? 15 MR. : No. 16 MR. : No? 17 MR. : I'm not sure about that. 18 MR. : Had you heard that one? 19 MR. : No, sir. 20 MR. : No. What do you know 21 about someone else taking Epstein's life? 22 MR. : I don't know nothing about 23 that. 24 MR. : What do you know about 25 other's assisting with taking Epstein's life? EFTA00113420

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 1 MR. : I don't know nothing about 2 that. 3 MR. : Did Epstein take his own 4 life? 5 MR. : I believe so. 6 MR. : And did Epstein act alone 7 in taking his own life? 8 MR. : I believe so. 9 MR. : Did you have any 10 involvement with Epstein's death? 11 MR. : No, sir. 12 MR. : What would have prevented 13 Epstein's death? 14 MR. : I'm really not too sure. Once 15 an inmate or a person has their mind made up, 16 they don't tell you when they're going to do 17 it. They just do it. This individual, I don't 18 know. I know that he was facing a serious 19 crime. I don't know if he wanted to do that on 20 his own, or he was protecting somebody. I 21 don't know. But to try to prevent, I think we 22 kind of tried everything that we wanted, but he 23 would have probably have succeeded somehow. 24 MR. : Okay. What actions 25 should have been taken to prevent his death? EFTA00113421

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 1 MR. : I think they should have kept 2 him in suicide watch, and had somebody watch 3 him at all times. But I mean -- 4 MR. : What about -- 5 MR. I'm just a GS-8. 6 MR. : -- what about ensuring 7 that he had his cell mate? 8 MR. : Oh, that, too. 9 MR. : What about ensuring that 10 rounds and counts were being conducted? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Anything else? 13 MR. : That's it. 14 MR. : All right. And what 15 about, like, placing him on, like, Ten South, 16 or G-tier? 17 MR. : Yeah. On G-tier, G-tier is 18 pretty spacious. But if he wanted, you know, 19 to hurt himself, he could have did it there, 20 too. 21 MR. : But does -- 22 MR. : He could have did it on Ten 23 South, too. 24 MR. : -- yeah. But they're 25 more closely monitored than the SHU. Correct? EFTA00113422

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. What are some of 3 the systematic problems inside the MCC - and 4 specifically, the SHU - that allowed for 5 Epstein to die? 6 MR. : Lack of staff. 7 MR. : Lack of staff. Is it all 8 9 MR. : Lack of staff. 10 MR. : -- okay. 11 MR. : Yeah. And how could I -? Right 12 now, we have a problem with lack of staff. The 13 staff that they are hiring right now is fall on 14 the money. This job is not the first job that 15 they apply for. It's just the first job that 16 called. So, with that knowledge, everybody 17 needs a job. You need to pay your bills, 18 right? You need to pay food. You know, you 19 need to take care of your family, your wife, 20 your kids, your husband, et cetera. So, when 21 this job calls, they go. When you hear about 22 the feds, you'd be, like, wow, the feds called 23 me for an interview. This is a top-paying job. 24 Everybody believes it. It's not the top of the 25 food chain. Especially not now. In New York, EFTA00113423

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 1 the rent is going up. Everything is going up. 2 So, this job is really just another job. It's 3 not a career anymore. It's a job. You pay -. 4 It's a job. So, a lot of the men and women, 5 they come, they see the headaches that we go 6 through. And they look at their paycheck, and 7 then, they look at the headaches that they go 8 through at home. Because when you get your 9 mandated every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 10 Saturday, and Sunday, at first, your wife or 11 your husband believes it's good. The money is 12 coming in. But after a couple of months, your 13 wife or your husband will start believing that 14 you are cheating. Because, like, this, you 15 know, we're law enforcement. All law 16 enforcement cheat, right? What people believe. 17 So, a lot of individuals that I talk to, they 18 said they're not losing their wife, so they 19 quit. Or they moved on. Found another job for 20 the headache. So, we always going to lose 21 staff because the headache don't outweigh the 22 reward. 23 MR. : Juice isn't worth the 24 squeeze? 25 MR. : Yeah. And if they want to fix EFTA00113424

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 1 the place, they're going to have to 2 (Indiscernible *01:29:23) the money a little 3 bit, maybe we get better quality. 4 MR. : Have things improved 5 since August of 2019? 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. : You don't think they 8 have? 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : That's a shame to hear. 11 Well, speaking of, so that we can lock down 12 this thing, just to leave, this is 13 I was just explaining it to you - but this is 14 actually -. So, here, for instance, is the 15 actual report. It's from . He 16 was the OIC SHU, the SHU OIC at the time. And 17 it says that the incident occurred on 8/9/2019, 18 at 1:40 p.m. "On August 9th, 2019, at 19 approximately 1:40 p.m., I, SOS , while 20 assigned as the Special Housing Unit officer, 21 proceeded to enter the Nine South visiting 22 room, as I walked towards the door, I observed, 23 through the visiting room door, inmate 24 attempting to garb an unknown item 25 from his visitor. Once I made reach EFTA00113425

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 1 to grab the item, I called the door and called 2 for a lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the 3 visiting room, I gave inmate a direct 4 order to walk -". Gave him an out of -. "To 5 walk out of the visiting room, to conduct a 6 visual search. Inmate compiled," Oh, 7 "Complied, and a visual search was conducted. 8 The Operations Lieutenant was contacted, and 9 inmate was removed from the unit." 10 So, with this knowledge, when should have he 11 been keyed out of the SHU? 12 MR. : He should have been - right 13 now, since he's in SHU - they probably believed 14 that he was coming back to SHU. Because where 15 is they going to put him at? You know -- 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : -- it says, Seven North. So, 18 basically, he's going to go to SHU soon. So, 19 they probably took him downstairs. It says 20 (Indiscernible *01:31:18). It says, the unit 21 says Seven North, and you said he was -- 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : -- Nine South visitation room. 24 Oh, okay, okay. Now, I see it. Where is that? 25 Yeah. So, Nine South probably means that he EFTA00113426

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 1 keeps coming back to SHU. Because that's where 2 you place all our inmates that has an incident 3 report. 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : So, like this, he's coming back 6 to Nine South, (Indiscernible *01:31:40). 7 MR. : Okay. So then, when we 8 see this, inmate at 3:15 p.m., that 9 same day, placed on dry cell from ZA. 10 MR. : Yeah. 11 MR. : Is that the time he 12 should have been -? 13 MR. : Yes. 14 MR. : All right. So, at 3:15 15 is the time that he should have actually been, 16 then, placed - keyed out of the SHU? 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Unless they was putting him on 20 dry cell in SHU. 21 MR. : Well, this one says dry 22 cell from ZA. 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : So, this is when he was - 25 So, here. So, I mean EFTA00113427

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 1 MR. : So, if you just look at this 2 (Indiscernible *01:32:12). He was already in 3 the SHU. 4 MR. : Yeah. He was already in the 5 SHU. 6 MR. : And so, this one, we've 7 got to - we didn't highlight that. But so, 8 this one, IM on dry cell, with staff 9 watch and R&D. 3:15 p.m. That's when it 10 happened. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : So, at 3:15 p.m. then, 13 I'm assuming, not 1:40, but at 3:15 p.m., 14 that's when he should have been keyed out of 15 the SHU, and keyed into R&D? 16 MR. : Yes. 17 MR. : All right. And that goes 18 back to, would have been the person in 19 control? 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : All right. Would it -- 22 MR. : But if they believed -- 23 MR. : -- if he's going from 24 medical, though -- 25 MR. : -- but if they believed that he EFTA00113428

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 114 1 was going back to SHU, yes. They could have 2 just left him in SHU. Because they believed he 3 was coming back. 4 MR. : Well, that's at 1:40. 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : When he goes down to 7 medical. If he's at medical -- 8 MR. : Oh, we don't come out -- 9 MR. : -- and then, from -- 10 MR. from medical. 11 MR. : -- what's that? 12 MR. : Medical is just -. Medical is 13 just a, it was, like, okay, I call you up to 14 come pick up an inmate, from my housing unit, 15 you take him down to medical. I'm not going to 16 go on the computer and take him off my unit. 17 MR. : Yeah. So, what I'm 18 asking, though, is, if he went -. In this 19 instance, if he did that, would they first take 20 him to medical, and then place him on dry cell 21 in the R&D? 22 MR. : No. The PA will probably come 23 up to talk to him, but otherwise, they wouldn't 24 take him down to medical. 25 MR. : Okay. And so, would this EFTA00113429

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 1 notification been made on the radio for control 2 to even know at 3:15 p.m. was being 3 placed from ZA to R&D? 4 MR. : No. 5 MR. : So, control may not have 6 even known to key him out. Correct? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : So, it doesn't even mean 9 that, necessarily, would have contacted 10 and told. Whose responsibility would it have 11 been to key him out, at that point? If a 12 lieutenant -- 13 MR. : Now, if -- 14 MR. : -- ordered this? 15 MR. : -- if, if a lieutenant ordered 16 this, Nine South should have called control and 17 said, hey, I got an inmate taken off my count. 18 Because -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- they should know before 21 anybody else know. 22 MR. : So, even if the OIC told 23 - or the SHU - told the Ops Lieutenant, and the 24 Ops Lieutenant was aware, the SHU should have 25 still contacted control and told them? EFTA00113430

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : All right. So, it 3 wouldn't be the Ops Lieutenants? 4 MR. : No. 5 MR. : It should be the SHU? 6 MR. : SHU. 7 MR. : And specifically, should 8 it have been, if knows that he's going 9 onto dry cell, should have been that 10 individual, or anyone in the SHU? 11 MR. : Now, , if he were 12 assigned, where he says assigned as not - SHU 13 house unit officer - yeah. He's called control 14 and be, like, yo -- 15 MR. : So, should have 16 done that? 17 MR. : I got one. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : I got one that's coming off the 20 count. 21 MR. : Okay. You mind just 22 initialing and dating that? 23 MR. : How should soon should a 24 notification have been made? 25 MR. : During the course of the day, EFTA00113431

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 1 sometimes we have (Indiscernible *01:34:55), 2 and then, with the phone calls, you basically 3 (Indiscernible *01:34:55). You have to have an 4 incident report (Indiscernible *01:35:02). 5 MR. : What's (Indiscernible 6 *01:35:15)? How long do they normally have to 7 make that phone call? They'll know, hey, 8 listen, (Indiscernible *01:35:21)? What do you 9 know about (Indiscernible *01:35:26)? 10 MR. (Indiscernible *01:35:29). 11 MR. : (Indiscernible *01:35:31) at 12 3:15. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : When -. 15 MR. : Well, it happened at 16 1:40. 17 MR. : 1:40. 18 MR. : 1:40. 19 MR. : And placed on dry cell 20 MR. : But that -- 21 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 22 *01:35:38). 23 MR. : -- according to that memo, it 24 looks like that he was placed in dry cell at 25 3:15. Before what time should that phone call EFTA00113432

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 1 have came? 2 MR. : It should have came, you know, 3 an hour after -. Depending on how Nine South 4 is moving. Because Nine South is - Nine South 5 is lacking staff. We won't have a 6 (Indiscernible *01:35:58) of the full staff. 7 So, that means, if they're doing visitations, 8 or if they're doing showers, if they're doing 9 medical, if they're doing psychology, they're 10 doing all library cards and all this other 11 crap, they are moving. Yeah. 12 MR. : But here's the thing, you 13 said, the fourth count -- 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. -- there's a 4:00 p.m. count 16 coming up, should they have made notification 17 for the phone? 18 MR. : Yes. And should have made it 19 way before, before they forgot, because you 20 can't - the longer you take, the more you could 21 forget. 22 MR. : Should they have made 23 notification before the 10:00 p.m. count? 24 MR. : Yes. They should have made 25 notification a half an hour to - oh, no, a half EFTA00113433

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 1 an hour to ten minutes after the inmate 2 (Indiscernible *01:36:35). 3 MR. : Just not immediately, 4 correct? 5 MR. : Yeah. Because the longer it 6 takes, the busier you are, you forget 7 something. Maybe you forget your keys. You 8 know? 9 MR. : We were informed that, 10 once it's happening, the movement, that 11 notification should be made. Moving inmate 12 from SHU to R&D dry cell. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : Isn't that correct? 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. : It's only, it shouldn't 17 occur. It should happen immediately. 18 Definitely not more than 15 to 30 minutes 19 later. Correct? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Now, if the SHU staff at 4:00 23 p.m. did the count, as they were supposed to, 24 would they have realized the fact that there 25 was an inmate missing? EFTA00113434

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : If they did the 10:00 p.m. 3 count, as they were supposed to, would they 4 have realized there was an inmate missing? 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : Now, I don't know if -. 7 have something separate, all together. 8 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah. 9 Please. I'm just searching. 10 MR. : As being control, right? Is 11 there video monitors for different units? 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : Was there a monitor for the 14 SHU? 15 MR. : Yes. But there's a small -. 16 There's a camera that's way up on the wall. 17 MR. : Is it, like, a corner -- 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : -- angle? 20 MR. : It's a corner angle. 21 MR. : Let me look, if I had, like, 22 a picture of it. I don't have a picture of 23 that. But -. 24 MR. : I may. But you can start 25 asking your questions about it, though. EFTA00113435

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 121 1 MR. : When they do, when you're in 2 control, right, and they're calling you, like, 3 different units are calling you with the count 4 numbers, do you look up to see if they're 5 actually doing the counts? 6 MR. : Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. 7 Because we have work that we have to do, too. 8 Now, the person that's taking the phone calls, 9 that's what you're doing. You're taking the 10 phone calls, verifying the count with the El. 11 The person that's sitting next to you, that's 12 in control with me, he or she may be doing 13 their paperwork, because there's paperwork to 14 be done. We have to count keys. We have to 15 count radios. We have to do all the equipment 16 inside the control center. So, if I'm doing 17 count, that person may be doing the equipment 18 checks. And/or popping doors. 19 MR. : Okay. Do you recall looking 20 up at the camera that night, to see if they 21 were actually doing the counts that night? 22 MR. : I can't really recall because I 23 was helping out with the count, too. Different 24 units. 25 MR. : Do you recall, at any point, EFTA00113436

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 1 looking up - not just for that night, different 2 nights - looking up and looking at the camera, 3 and looking at the C.O.s and realizing that, 4 hey, listen, they're giving me the count, but I 5 know they haven't done the count? 6 MR. : No. I'm not -. I mean, we 7 relied on trust. I mean, this is a part of 8 your job function. Your major job function. 9 So, we believe that you should have had to have 10 done the count, because Nine South has two 11 officers. So, they count themselves. Any unit 12 that has two officers, they count themselves. 13 Everybody else, they're going to need backup 14 because there's only one officer per unit. 15 MR. : Have you ever heard of counts 16 and rounds not being done at the MCC? 17 MR. : I mean, you know, you heard the 18 rumors from the news. 19 MR. : From the what? 20 MR. : From the news. 21 MR. : Other than this incident, 22 have you heard any rumors of any C.O.s saying, 23 hey, listen, I'm too tired, I'm not doing the 24 counts, or I'm not doing the rounds, or one of 25 them might be, they're just not doing the EFTA00113437

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 1 counts or the rounds? 2 MR. : No, no, no. I haven't heard 3 that. 4 MR. : Have you ever heard of C.O.s 5 pre-filling the rounds and the count sheets? 6 Meaning, they come on shift, they fill out the 7 forms, keep it, and sign at the, you know, 8 initial it, fill it all out, and just pass it 9 on. 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : When the time comes. 12 MR. : No. 13 MR. : You never heard of any C.O.s 14 doing anything like that? 15 MR. : No. Because I definitely don't 16 do that. 17 MR. : That's it for now. 18 MR. : Anything we're missing? 19 MR. : You asked me everything -- 20 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah. 21 MR. and the kitchen sink. 22 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 23 yeah. No. It's all -. Can we just ask you, 24 please, if you can remember anything more about 25 the 10:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. count, EFTA00113438

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 1 specifically if there were any conversations 2 that were had with either the Ops Lieutenant, 3 or the SHU, about, like, ghost counting, or 4 about when you wrote in - if it was, in fact, 5 you, who wrote on those two count slips - or 6 anything at all, that you might help, for us, 7 to clear up. What was done -- 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : -- and when it was done. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : Because again, in our 12 mind, the count slips are inaccurate. You were 13 going based upon what was said on the, you 14 know, on the El. And their count slips were 15 matching that El. So, for me, I'm still very 16 confused on when that 9S+1 on the R&D, and when 17 the plus one on the ZA count slips were 18 actually done. I know you're saying that you 19 believe that they were done at the time of the 20 10:00 p.m. count, but being that it doesn't 21 look like it was appeared to have been caught 22 until after the - or during - the 12:00 a.m. 23 count, I'm just still not convinced of that. 24 So -- 25 MR. : Right. EFTA00113439

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 MR. : -- because to you, you 2 said you believe it was done at the 10:00 p.m., 3 you don't know for a fact. Correct? 4 MR. : No, not for a fact. 5 MR. : You just, being that it 6 shows on the 10:00 p.m., but you don't think 7 that you would have gone back to an earlier 8 count -- 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : -- is what you're saying? 11 Even if someone was, it was caught during a 12 count that you still had the paperwork to? 13 MR. : No. 14 MR. : Do you know what I'm 15 saying? Like, even if there's one count later, 16 which there's only two hours after that count, 17 you don't think you would have, then, gone back 18 to that count that you did just two hours 19 later, and put that plus one on there? 20 MR. : No. 21 MR. : No? All right. So, 22 you're - to you, though - you're pretty 23 positive you would have done it during the 24 10:00 p.m.? 25 MR. : Yes. EFTA00113440

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 1 MR. : And do you believe that, 2 then, would be why the Ops Lieutenant would 3 have caught the fact that there is one person 4 assigned to the SHU, who was actually in R&D, 5 and would have corrected the El? 6 MR. : Yes. I believe, I believe that 7 if there was a little bit more communication, 8 we probably would have caught it a lot faster. 9 MR. : Well, it sounds like you 10 knew it. I'm just - now, I'm just super 11 confused if that's when it happened, why the 12 El, you have a count slip that doesn't say on 13 the El. 14 MR. : Like I said, if, you know, if 15 I'm correct, I should have changed it. 16 MR. : You should have changed 17 the El? 18 MR. : I should have just changed it, 19 regardless. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Without doing the ghosting. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : I should have changed it. 24 That's why I said I think I dropped the ball on 25 that one. EFTA00113441

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : All right. So, you 2 believe it was a ghost count? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : And you believe, though, 5 in order for it to be a ghost count, an Ops 6 Lieutenant would have said it's okay to ghost 7 count? 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : And the only Ops 10 Lieutenant that was on there was 11 and she didn't make the change until the 12 12:00 p.m. count. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : And do you see where that 15 doesn't add up? 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. Yeah. 17 MR. : So, in thinking about 18 that, is there anything you think that maybe 19 you're a little bit inaccurate on? 20 MR. : I mean, if, you know, like, I'm 21 just wish that I, like, caught it and changed 22 it a lot earlier. You know, I should have just 23 changed it. 24 MR. : Yeah. And again, my main 25 thing is, I think you're beating yourself up on EFTA00113442

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 that because I don't think that there was 2 anything for you to catch. You didn't know. 3 But I could be mistaken on that, and that's 4 where I'm just really hoping that, if you can 5 think about it, and you can kind of put 6 together, oh, yeah, that is what happened, or, 7 okay, that's what - that's how it transpired, 8 that's how it went down. If you could just 9 contact us, myself or and just let us 10 know. That would be greatly -. We would so 11 appreciate it because when we do these things, 12 we got to be accurate. The highest levels of 13 the government are going to get - or look at 14 these things. And being that these counts are 15 off, that's kind of a big thing. 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : Especially with regard 18 to, you know, with the night before, and the 19 morning of, Epstein -- 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : -- being found. And so, 22 we just want to make sure that we're being as 23 accurate as possible. I'll give you a card so 24 that, if you can think of anything, you can 25 certainly contact me. And we can modify 128 EFTA00113443

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 1 whatever it is that needs to be modified, or do 2 a supplemental. All right. Any questions for 3 us? 4 MR. : No, sir. 5 MR. : No? All right. Well, we 6 can't thank you enough for your time. 7 MR. : Mm-hmm. Thank you, too. 8 MR. : All right. 9 MR. : And I hope I helped a little 10 bit. 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Yes. Thank you, sir. 13 Appreciate you. God Bless you. I'm going to 14 turn the recorder off now. It is certainly 15 4:19 p.m. This is , Senior 16 Special Agent with DOJ/OIG, and I'm turning off 17 the recorder. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00113444

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00113445