LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 MS. : Then that would be -- 2 MR. : -- that you're a 3 supervisor. 4 MS. : -- that would be - I would 5 say - that would be because that's his 6 area, the cameras. 7 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 8 anybody else would have the ability to do 9 things like that, to take, you know, recorders 10 on or offline, or to at least check their 11 status with the camera system? 12 MS. : I don't know. If it is, it 13 would be facilities shop. 14 MR. : So, but primarily, 15 would be the person? 16 MS. : Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Not you, though? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : And in no way, while you 22 were Although, the only thing that would be 23 able to tip you off, if things weren't 24 recording, is if you started trying to rewind, 25 and it wasn't rewinding. EFTA00127054

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 MS. : If I tried to rewind, it 2 wouldn't rewind. Or if they were red. It 3 would have, like, a red X on a camera. I know 4 that it's a problem, even if it's not working 5 at all. Or something is wrong with it. 6 MR. : Did that - on the 8th, 7 when you were looking - were there any red X's? 8 MS. : I don't recall if -. Because 9 it's a lot of cameras, and they're in different 10 places. So, I don't recall there being a red 11 X. 12 MR. : But just to -- 13 MS. : On any of them. 14 MR. : -- circle back. What 15 tipped you off was with you and trying to 16 go back and review? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : And that's where you said 19 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : -- why can't I do 17. 22 MS. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : Gotcha. 24 MR. : And prior to that day, you 25 don't recall when the last time you guys tried EFTA00127055

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 to review it was, right? 2 MS. : No. I don't recall. 3 MR. : Okay. So, but it had been a 4 little bit. It had been a little while? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. Anything else on the 7 cameras? 8 MR. : I think that's all. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : That's great information, 11 that we didn't know that before. I didn't know 12 that that's how we found out that the cameras 13 were offline -- 14 MS. : Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : -- was basically your 16 review. How often should have been 17 going in to check those servers to make sure 18 that they were online? 19 MS. : Daily. 20 MR. : So then, would you know 21 if he was? 22 MS. : I can't say he was checking 23 daily. I know that he was up there quite 24 often. But I can't even say that he was 25 checking the cameras because, one I let him in, EFTA00127056

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 1 to do whatever he's doing with the servers, you 2 know, I wasn't standing there, you know, saying 3 what are you doing, or, so -- 4 MR. : And I know we're talk -- 5 MS. -- but daily, they should 6 have checked. 7 MR. : I know we're talking a 8 long time ago now, but do you remember, prior 9 to the 8th, if he was in -? Because again, I 10 think the information that we have suggests 11 that the camera servers went down on the actual 12 July 29th -- 13 MS. : Hmm. 14 MR. : -- of 2019. So, there 15 is, like, almost a - more than a -- 16 MS. : Week. 17 MR. : -- week -- 18 MS. : Yeah. Yeah. 19 MR. : -- do you know if he was 20 actually going in, at that time, for that week 21 period, checking in on the servers at all, at 22 this -? 23 MS. : I know he entered the area. 24 But I don't know if he checked the servers 25 while he were back there. But I know he was EFTA00127057

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 1 entering the area. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : What else is in that area? 4 MS. : Just the servers in there. 5 And ink cartridges. At the top. 6 MR. : And that's on the third 7 floor? 8 MS. : It's on the third floor. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : And then, nothing else is 11 stored. Is there evidence stored in there? 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : For some reason, we were 14 under the impression that SIS stored evidence 15 there. 16 MS. : There's no evidence in there. 17 It's some old file cabinets from, maybe before 18 I was born. 19 MR. : And I think said 20 that there was maybe, it's like a hallway, and 21 there's, like, some evidence, some old 22 evidence, or evidence there. 23 MS. : Not where the servers are. 24 But it's some file cabinets, where the servers 25 are. And I think that's maybe some archive SIS EFTA00127058

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 1 cases from -- 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. a long time ago. 5 MR. : So, next topic? 6 MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : Okay. So, what was your 8 understanding about why Epstein was not in his 9 assigned cell? Were you aware that he was 10 when they found him - and he was not in the 11 cell that he was assigned to in the system? 12 MS. : No. I learned that later on, 13 that -- 14 MR. : What did you learn? 15 MS. : -- that he was keyed to one 16 cell, but he was actually living in another 17 cell. So, I don't know where they changed his 18 cell at. 19 MR. : And is this because the cell 20 rotations that happen in the SHU? 21 MS. : Right. 22 MR. : And who would have been 23 responsible to make sure that this, once the 24 cell rotation happened -. 25 MR. : That's not the reason. EFTA00127059

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 1 So, let's not go down that path. So, did you 2 learn how that happened? How he was keyed into 3 one, and not in another? 4 MS. : No. 5 MR. : No? Okay. Did you hear 6 -? Does this refresh your memory at all, like, 7 he was initially placed into one cell, when he 8 came back from suicide watch, around July 30th, 9 but then, the CPAP (Phonetic Sp. *01:16:21) 10 machine didn't actually reach into there, so 11 they had to switch him to another? 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : No? So, you never heard 14 anything about that? 15 MS. : No. 16 MR. : Okay. Go ahead. 17 MR. : So -. 18 MR. : Who would have been 19 responsible for making those changes in the 20 system, to make sure that he's in the actual 21 cell where he's supposed to be there? 22 MS. : Normally, the SHU OIC make 23 the changes. 24 MR. : So, it wouldn't be the 25 lieutenant? It would be the OIC? EFTA00127060

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 1 MS. : Yeah. It would be the OIC. 2 MR. : Okay. And so, would that 3 be -? Is there an OIC for each shift, or is 4 there one overall OIC? 5 MS. : There is one for each shift. 6 MR. : Okay. So, on that note, 7 is it more for, like, the morning watch, the 8 day watch, or the evening watch that would be 9 responsible for that change? 10 MS. : No. Whatever shift he was 11 moved on, that OIC should have made the change. 12 MR. : Okay. Okay. And at this 13 point, if the change wasn't made, is there a 14 way for us to know when that occurred? When 15 they actually moved him from one cell to 16 another cell? 17 MS. : No. The only way you would 18 know is to rely on the cameras to, you know, 19 rewind and see. 20 MR. : To see, you know -- 21 MS. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : -- when that actually 23 happened. But the cameras weren't actually 24 working -- 25 MS. : Right. EFTA00127061

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 1 MR. : -- from 7/29, and this 2 happened on 7/30. There's no way, at this 3 point? 4 MS. : No. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : No. 7 MR. : Go ahead. 8 MR. : Next level? 9 MR. : Sure. 10 MR. : Cell searches. How often are 11 they supposed to do cell searches in the SHU? 12 MS. : You're taking me back-back. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MS. : There is - I want to say they 15 have to do a set amount. I don't know if it's 16 three or five. It was five when I was an 17 officer. Per shift. They should be random 18 cell searches. 19 MR. : Is it of the general area, or 20 actual cells that they're supposed to be 21 searching? 22 MS. : Actual cell searches. 23 MR. : And is that five -? 24 MS. : With the exception of the 25 midnight shift. They usually do the general EFTA00127062

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 1 areas. 2 MR. : But there should have been 3 cell searches done, by the C.O.s, at least five 4 times? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : Per shift? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : On day watch -- 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : -- and night watch? 11 MS. : No. On day watch -- 12 MR. : Day watch and evening 13 MS. : -- an evening watch. 14 MR. watch. 15 MR. : All right. Well, 16 evening. Evening watch, right? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : So, if they're doing 19 those, is it just as important to log those 20 searches into the system? 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : So, if there is no cell 23 searches actually being logged into the system, 24 on those dates, is that a problem? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00127063

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. And would you 2 consider that, like, a policy violation? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : If it's not logged into 5 the system, is it almost as if they never 6 happened? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : Go ahead. 9 MR. : That's all I have. I know 10 you looked into the monitor, the phone call 11 that Epstein made the night before, on August 12 9th, right? And what is your understanding of 13 what transpired? Like, how did he make that 14 phone call? 15 MS. : My understanding is that his 16 unit manager gave him the phone call. On an 17 unsecured line. He placed Epstein in the 18 shower area - that's what my understanding 19 and he plugged the phone into an unsecured 20 line, and gave him a phone call. 21 MR. : And based on what we - based 22 on the interviews - it looks like Epstein asked 23 to speak to his mother. 24 MS. : Right. 25 MR. : And he asked for his pack and EFTA00127064

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 1 pen (Phonetic Sp. *01:19:33) was not set up. 2 MR. : Well, let's ask her. 3 What is your understanding of what happened? 4 MS. : That was my understanding, 5 that he made a phone call to his mother. 6 MR. : Have you learned anything 7 since then? 8 MS. : No. Well, I did learn that 9 his mother was deceased on the 10th. 10 MR. : And do you know who he 11 actually called? 12 MS. : I don't. I don't. I 13 actually was present when we did get the 14 number, and it NYPD, guy called the number 15 back, but I don't know who it was. 16 MR. : He actually dialed the 17 phone? 18 MS. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : To check to -? Rather 20 than doing a search, he called the number that 21 they -- 22 MS. : I think he did a search. 23 MR. -- okay. 24 MS. : I think he did a search. And 25 he called the number. EFTA00127065

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 1 MR. : From here? At the BOP? 2 MS. : No. I want to say he might 3 have called from his phone he had. 4 MR. : He had a cell phone? 5 MS. : Yeah. Mm-hmm. I want to say 6 he called from his phone. 7 MR. : Was this in your 8 presence? 9 MS. : Yeah. It was. Yeah. I was 10 there. 11 MR. : Did they bring their cell 12 phones into the institution? 13 MS. : We had - we got approval for 14 them to bring their phones in, because they was 15 doing an investigation. 16 MR. : Oh, okay. 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : And do you know if 19 someone answered when he called? 20 MS. : I want to say a female 21 answered, but hung up. 22 MR. : Okay. Did he identify 23 himself? 24 MS. : I can't remember. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00127066

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1_ 1 MS. : I can't remember. 2 MR. : And is that the same 3 person, though, that -- 4 MR. : You think? 5 MS. : Yeah. 6 MR. : NYPD 7 MS. : Yeah. 8 MR. : -- detective. 9 MS. : Because - yes - it was only 10 one NYPD at the time. 11 MR. : Okay. And it's 12 13 MS. : Yeah. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : I think it was 16 MR. : Okay. Great. Who did 17 you say that actually provided him the phone 18 call? 19 MS. : His unit manager. 20 MR. : And who was that? 21 MS. : His name is Nathaniel 22 23 MR. : And what is your 24 understanding of what should have transpired if 25 he gave him that phone call? How should have EFTA00127067

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 1 that process worked? 2 MS. : If he gave him a phone call, 3 it should have been on a secure line. Meaning, 4 the inmate's line. Because when it's on the 5 inmate line, you can listen to the phone call. 6 You know, go back. You can monitor it live. 7 And it should have been recorded in the logbook 8 that he received the phone call to the number 9 he received the phone call to. 10 MR. : And should have he sat 11 there with him, while the call was being 12 placed? 13 MS. : Yes. 14 MR. : All right. And do you 15 know anything about there not being a logbook 16 in the SHU, for those telephone calls? 17 MS. : I know it was -. We were 18 looking for logbooks. I can't remember if that 19 book was one of them, to be honest with you, 20 because I collected so many. So, I can't 21 remember if that actual book was missing. 22 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 23 actually did monitor the call, and log 24 it? 25 MS. : I don't know. EFTA00127068

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 1 MR. : You don't know if he did 2 or not? 3 MS. : I don't know. 4 MR. : Okay. Do you know 5 anything -? Did your investigation reveal 6 anything that transpired during that call? 7 MS. : No. I don't know. 8 MR. : No. So, you never found 9 anything more? 10 MS. : I never found anything more. 11 MR. : How serious of a 12 violation do you consider it, if the inmate had 13 - in this specific instance - both provided 14 Epstein the phone call, and put him in the G- 15 tier shower, walked away, and not only walked 16 away, but left the unit? And the inmate could 17 then talk by himself. Is that a pretty 18 significant thing, or -? 19 MS. : It is. Because it was on a 20 again - it was on an unsecured line. So, you 21 know, you can't get the recording back, even if 22 you an emergency and you needed to step away 23 for a minute, you know, you still can go and 24 listen back to that phone call, to see if 25 anything transpired. EFTA00127069

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 1 MR. : Sure. And why is it? Is 2 it, like, a potential danger to other inmates 3 in the facility, by being able to provide 4 inmates these unsecured phone calls? 5 MS. : I would say yes. 6 MR. : So, it's a security 7 matter? 8 MS. : It's a security issue. 9 MR. : Okay. And what is your 10 opinion on if, when - Epstein says he's 11 calling his mother, and Mr. calls the 12 number that he gives him, which we don't have 13 the number for at the time, there's no list, 14 and a male answers the phone. And then, he 15 provides Epstein with that call. What is your 16 thoughts on that as an SIS lieutenant? 17 MS. : Okay. Can I -? Just 18 rephrase it. He gave him the phone call, and a 19 male answered the phone call. 20 MR. : So, Epstein says, I'm 21 calling my mother. This is the number. He 22 calls the number. Mr. says a male 23 answers the phone. And then provides the phone 24 to Epstein. 25 MS. : At that point, I wouldn't EFTA00127070

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 1 have provided the phone to Epstein. I would 2 have hung the call up. 3 MR. : Right. So, is that also 4 a pretty bad security violation? 5 MS. : Yeah. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Should he have verified who 8 was on the phone? 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. : Should he have asked for a 11 name? 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Was there a logbook, at that 14 point, in the SHU? 15 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 16 MR. : Is there something called 17 endogen (Phonetic Sp. *01:24:39) inmates? 18 Inmates. Now, if 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. can you -? 21 MR. : What does that mean: 22 MR. : Yeah. What does that mean? 23 MS. Endogen is inmates that, you 24 know, don't have any money on their accounts. 25 They don't have no type of resources. No type EFTA00127071

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 1 of money coming in, through family members, or 2 anything to that effect. 3 MR. : Now, if an endogen inmate 4 wanted to make a phone call, what is the 5 procedure for that? 6 MS. : I'm not too sure how unit 7 team deal with endogen inmate. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : I'm not too sure. 10 MR. : Is it - have you ever heard 11 the procedure that, if an inmate doesn't any 12 money in the pack and pen, they can't make any 13 phone calls, the unit team sometimes allows 14 them to make a phone call on the legal line? 15 MS. : I've never heard of that. 16 MR. : Regardless, if an inmate 17 is speaking on the legal line, it's always 18 supposed to be 19 MS. : A legal -- 20 MS. monitored? 21 MS. a legal phone call. Yes. 22 MR. : Where if it's in this 23 case, that an inmate that doesn't actually have 24 money, if they do allow it, they have to 25 monitor it. Correct? They have to sit there EFTA00127072

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 1 and listen to it with them? 2 MS. : They do, but they shouldn't 3 allow it because it's a legal line. 4 MR. : Okay. So, really, the 5 legal line is only supposed to be -- 6 MS. : Only for legal. 7 MR. : -- okay. So, not only 8 was this not done properly, they should have 9 never provided Epstein a call from the legal 10 line, is what you're saying? 11 MS. : Right. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Is there another line, or, 14 like, a pack and pen set up to utilize for 15 inmates that don't have any money, that want to 16 make calls? Like, you know how pack and pens 17 are assigned to each inmate. Right? 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Now, if it's an endogen 20 inmate, and they wanted to make a phone call 21 that's not legal, is there a special code that 22 the unit team can use? 23 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 24 MR. : And if the captain, if there 25 was a conversation between the captain and the EFTA00127073

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 unit, with (Indiscernible *01:26:22) 2 and the captain instructed him to monitor it, 3 and log the call, what does that mean to you? 4 MS. : That mean you should be 5 standing there, listening to the phone call. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : And you should be recording 8 it in the logbook. 9 MR. : All right. Anything else on 10 that? 11 MR. : Nope. 12 MR. : Now, let's talk about August 13 10th. Right? When did you find out about Mr. 14 Epstein's death? 15 MS. : Maybe about 6:00 in the 16 morning. I got a call at home. I got a call 17 at home, by the captain called me. 18 MR. : Captain 19 MS. : Captain called me. 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 MS. : And he said we have an 22 emergency. I need you to come up to the 23 institution. And I said, okay. What happened? 24 You know, I'm getting up now. And he said, 25 it's Epstein again. And I said, okay. What EFTA00127074

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 1 happened? You know, with Epstein. And he 2 said, Epstein tried to kill himself. So, I 3 said, okay. I got dressed, and I came up to 4 the institution. It's not until maybe I was 5 here maybe about 45 minutes, when I learned 6 that he was deceased, and then, everybody said, 7 wait, you didn't know? And I said, no, because 8 I heard tried. So, and I remember saying, did 9 he go to the hospital because try mean, okay, 10 did we take him here? And when I got to there, 11 like, no, he's in the hospital. Like, he's 12 deceased, and I was, like, oh. Okay. 13 MR. Mm-hmm. So, when -. 14 MR. : Do you know if he was 15 alive when the first officer responded to him? 16 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 17 MR. : Do you have anything, any 18 investigative steps that you took reveal 19 anything about that? Like, life-saving 20 measures, like, to keep him alive versus bring 21 him back? 22 MS. : I don't know. Just 23 overhearing that they did some CPR measures. 24 But I don't really know who did what. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00127075

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 1 MR. : When you arrived at the 2 facility, around what time was it, 3 approximately? 4 MS. : Maybe, I know it was before 5 7:30. 6 MR. : And was he already gone, at 7 that point? 8 MS. : Yes. He was already gone. 9 MR. : And when you came in, what is 10 the first step you did? 11 MS. : I just started gathering 12 evidence. You know -? 13 MR. : Did you go up to the SHU? 14 MS. : Yes. I went up to the SHU to 15 take whatever logbooks that was up there, and 16 that I could find. I went to the control 17 center to look for the count slips, from the 18 night before, the 9th and the 10th. The warden 19 had took some of the count slips. He beat me 20 to the punch. So, he did give me what he took 21 because it was -. Everybody was just trying to 22 gather up evidence, just -. 23 MR. : We're just trying to get a 24 MR. : On -- 25 MR. : -- sorry. EFTA00127076

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 1 MR. : -- and on the count 2 slips, did you find anything out about the 3 counts that were conducted, or not conducted, 4 that night? 5 MS. : On the count slips, I just 6 seen that they were filled out. They were 7 filled out. And I think, I want to say the 8 10th was missing. Because everybody would run 9 around, looking for the 10th count slip. I 10 can't remember what time. I think the 3:00 and 11 the 5:00, they were looking for. On the count 12 slips. 13 MR. : When you said they were 14 looking for it, where were they looking for it? 15 MS. : In the control center. 16 MR. : I see. 17 MS. : Because that's where the 18 count slips would be. 19 MR. : So, they went to -. And so, 20 the captain, or the warden, went down to the 21 control center, they were looking for the 3:00 22 a.m. and the 5:00 a.m. count slips, and they 23 couldn't find them? 24 MS. : I don't know who actually 25 went in the control center because it's my EFTA00127077

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 understanding they were looking for the count 2 slips before I arrived. So, what -. 3 MR. : Did you do any vetting of 4 the counts, though, to notice, like, if they 5 count slips matched up with the institutional 6 counts, or anything like that? 7 MS. : Did I do any? 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MS. : No. I didn't. 10 MR. : So, you didn't notice. 11 Did you notice any of the count slips having, 12 like, any extra writing on them? Like, 9S+1, 13 or 73+1. Or anything like that? 14 MS. Hmm. I can't remember. 15 MR. : So, you don't remember. 16 MS. : i can't remember. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : Do you want to show that? 19 MR. : No. I mean, yeah, if you 20 want to, if you have it. Sure. 21 MR. : We'll come back. So, I'll 22 come back to that. I just had a few questions. 23 So, when you came in, people were already in 24 the SHU, looking for stuff? 25 MS. : Yeah. EFTA00127078

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 1 MR. : Pulling stuff up? 2 MS. : That, it was only the captain 3 gave me a few things. He was looking for his 4 folder. His 292s and stuff to that effect. So 5 6 MR. : That would be Epstein's 7 folder? 8 MS. : -- Epstein's. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. : Right. So, whatever he found 11 with Epstein, he did give it to me. Whatever 12 he found in the SHU. Again, the count slips 13 were in the warden's office, what they found. 14 So, I did get those from him. 15 MR. : What is the normal procedure 16 if an inmate dies in prison, or, you know, a 17 suicide happens in prison, what is the normal 18 procedure on the actions to be taken? 19 MR. : Well, prior to we get 20 into that, why were you all looking for the 21 count slips? 22 MS. : That's, like, a procedure, 23 what we do, you know, we look at the count 24 slips to make sure - especially with a suicide 25 in SHU - you want to make sure that the count EFTA00127079

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1/- 1 was conducted. You're going to review the 2 cameras and see that the count was conducted. 3 You know, it's just to make sure, basically 4 everybody is accountable, and do what they 5 needed to do. 6 MR. : And did you do any of 7 that, trying to ensure that those counts were 8 conducted? 9 MS. : Well, it was no cameras, and 10 I didn't do an investigation, because at that 11 point, once we notify OIG and FBI, we knew that 12 it would be their investigation. So -- 13 MR. : Right. 14 MS. I did no investigation. 15 MR. : And do you know if the 16 counts were conducted? 17 MS. : I don't know. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : So, now the procedures. 21 MR. : Well, on the same note, then. 22 Did they eventually find the count slips? 23 MS. : They found -. They did find 24 I don't think the 10th was ever located. 25 It could have been. I can't recall. But EFTA00127080

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 1 know the 10th was the missing count slip. One 2 of them went missing or something to that 3 effect, that, you know, OIG kept calling me, 4 and I'm, like, I'm looking for them, I'm going 5 through everything, I'm going through, you 6 know, we were trying to find. It was something 7 missing. I can't remember the timeframe, but 8 it definitely was something missing, at the 9 time. 10 MR. : But you didn't say, it 11 eventually was found? 12 MS. : I -- 13 MR. : Okay. And do you know 14 MS. : I can't remember. 15 MR. : -- so, when you came in, 16 right after you found out about the incident, 17 did you come right to the SHU? 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Who was in the SHU, at that 20 point? 21 MS. : I don't remember. It was a 22 lot of people. 23 MR. : When you say a lot of people, 24 like -? 25 MS. : In and out of the SHU. Like, EFTA00127081

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 1 administration. Like, the captain, I think, 2 was up there at the time. Or I 3 MR. : Was -. 4 MS. : I can't even remember what 5 officers was up there, to be honest with you. 6 MR. : Who was in the cell, at that 7 point? Epstein's cell. 8 MS. : Nobody. 9 MR. : Nobody. Was that sealed off? 10 MS. : The door was locked. 11 MR. : Do you know who locked it? 12 MS. : I don't know who locked it. 13 MR. : Okay. And why was the door 14 locked? 15 MS. : I don't know, but I'm 16 assuming somebody locked it because they knew 17 it would be -. You know, we would do an 18 investigation on it. 19 MR. : Do you think it was a 20 possible crime scene? 21 MS. : Right. 22 MR. : Okay. And they sealed it up 23 so no one came in and out? 24 MS. : Nobody came in and out. When 25 I got up there, it was locked. We took the EFTA00127082

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 1 CPAP machine, and different stuff out of it, we 2 did. And we inventoried it in SIS. 3 MR. : So, that's a question. So, 4 when you -. It was locked. Since did someone 5 go in, at that point, to take stuff out? 6 MS. : No. We didn't go in right 7 then and there. No. We roped it off with the 8 yellow tape. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. : We roped it off with the 11 yellow tape. 12 MR. : And then, of course, what 13 about the stuff inside the - before we go in 14 this room - what about the stuff in the 15 officer's desk? Was stuff inventoried out of 16 the desks? Taken stuff, taken out. Like, any 17 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. -- anything related to 20 Epstein. Like, you mentioned that the captain 21 took the folder. Where was that folder -- 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : -- taken? 24 MS. : We couldn't find -. They 25 couldn't find the folder. EFTA00127083

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 131 1 MR. : Oh, they couldn't find the 2 folder? 3 MS. : They couldn't find the folder 4 at all. So, whatever paperwork he got was 5 stuff laying around. 6 MR. : So, he took stuff off the 7 desks, and things like that? 8 MS. : I'm - yeah - I'm assuming 9 that's where he got it from. 10 MR. : Was an inventory made of 11 those stuff that he took out of the SHU? 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. What are the steps - 14 as an SIS lieutenant - did you guys take any 15 materials out of the SHU, as evidence? 16 MS. : What do you mean? 17 MR. : Like, did -- 18 MS. : Find something? 19 MR. : -- any paperwork related to 20 Epstein, things like that, did you guys 21 inventory anything? 22 MS. : Everything related to him. 23 Yeah. Because we brought it down to SIS. We 24 turned it over to OIG. 25 MR. : Okay. So, the -- EFTA00127084

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 1 MS. : And we inventoried it. 2 MR. : -- inventory was done by you, 3 not the FBI? 4 MS. : No. It was done by me. They 5 signed off on it, well, as I was handing it to 6 them. I had everything on an inventory list, 7 of course. So, they were double checking what 8 I was giving them, and they signed off on the 9 chain of custody. 10 MR. : And that morning, the round 11 sheets, where did you find the round sheets? 12 MS. : So, someone gave me the round 13 sheets. 14 MR. : So, it was not -? It wasn't 15 in the SHU? 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : Okay. And Epstein paper. 18 You said you took anything Epstein related, 19 right? In paperwork. 20 MS. : Right. 21 MR. : And, like, what kind of 22 paperwork did you take? 23 MS. Oof. I think I got, like, 24 one or two 292s. I may have. Whatever it was, 25 was very little. EFTA00127085

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 1 MR. : Do you recall taking this 2 (Indiscernible *01:35:41) mandatory -? It says 3 mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 4 minutes on Epstein. 5 MS. : Not, I've never even seen 6 that sign. 7 MR. : So, you've never seen that? 8 MS. : No. 9 MR. : Okay. And do you recall any 10 signs being up in the SHU, regarding Epstein? 11 MS. : No. I don't recall. 12 MR. : Him needing a cellmate, and 13 your rounds being So, you don't recall this 14 in there, either? 15 MS. : No. I've never seen that 16 sign. 17 MR. : Do you know who collected 18 that, by any chance? 19 MS. : No. I don't. 20 MR. : So, if you -. 21 MR. : Was it the captain char. 22 went in and collected a lot of this stuff? Is 23 the one that -? 24 MS. : He did, but -- 25 MR. : And was he the one -- EFTA00127086

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 1 MS. : -- that was never -- 2 MR. : -- that provided -? He 3 provided you with some of this stuff, though, 4 like, the 292s that you're talking about? 5 MS. : Yes. He gave me the 292s. 6 MR. : And what is that? Is 7 that, like, the feeding -- 8 MS. : The feeding. 9 MR. : -- and the showers? 10 MS. : The showers. Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : But you don't recall this? 13 MS. : I've never seen that. 14 MR. : Was there any lists kept in 15 the SHU, to say any special needs for some of 16 the inmates? Like, if they are suicidal watch, 17 and things like that, is there any special 18 lists in the SHU for that? 19 MS. : It should have been a hot 20 list. What we call a hot list, that psychology 21 would have put up there. Do you recall if 22 there was one in the SHU, at that point? 23 MS. : I don't know. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. : I don't know. EFTA00127087

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 1 MR. : And if there was one, where 2 would it have been kept? 3 MS. : I would think it would have 4 been posted somewhere near the officer's 5 station. 6 MR. : Okay. And what about the 7 now, let's go to his cell - who inventoried 8 everything out of his cell? 9 MS. : My SIS tech went in, and she 10 took what was in there, which was, like, some 11 letters he had. I think some pill bottles. 12 And the CPAP machine was in there. 13 MR. : Did you assist your - sorry, 14 I wrote the person's name. 15 MS. -: 16 MR. 17 MS. : Yeah. 18 MR. : Did you assist 19 MS. : Yeah. I was up there. Yes. 20 MR. : How do you spell her last 21 name? 22 MS. -: 23 MR. : So, it's, I wrote it 24 And first name is America? 25 MS. : America. Yes. EFTA00127088

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 1 MR. : America? Like, our -- 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : -- America, our country? 4 MS. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Okay. Cool. 6 MR. : So, did you assist her when - 7 8 MS. : Yeah. I was there. 9 MR. -- when she walked in -. 10 You both were. 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : What was your impression when 13 you saw it? Like, what did you see when you 14 walked in? 15 MS. : Just, it wasn't much in the 16 cell. It was just more, linen sheets, linen 17 stuff. 18 MR. : Was there an excessive -- 19 MS. : Yeah. 20 MR. : -- excessive amount of 21 linens and sheets? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Did you inventory thatf 24 MS. : No. I didn't. 25 MR. : Do you know around how EFTA00127089

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 many linens and sheets were in there? 2 MS. : No. I don't. 3 MR. : But it seemed excessive, 4 though, for -- 5 MS. : For Special Housing. 6 MR. : -- right. 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : So, there were definitely 9 more than should have been in there? 10 MS. : I would say. 11 MR. : Do you know why that 12 would be the case? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : What about the pill bottles? 15 All those pill bottles, and you said you saw 16 medication, things like that. 17 MS. : I don't remember if they were 18 empty, or if medication was in them. I know we 19 just took them. 20 MR. : You start on them, 21 actually. 22 MR. : Yeah. I think 23 MS. : Okay. 24 MR. : -- let me show you pictures. 25 MS. : Sorry about that. EFTA00127090

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 1 MR. : Because we have pictures from 2 3 MR. : Who took the pictures? 4 Do you know? 5 MS. : Ms. 6 MR. : Okay. Okay. 7 MR. : That's okay. 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : So, what I'm showing you are 10 the pictures taken inside the SHU. 11 MS. : Okay. 12 MR. : Is that Epstein's cell? 13 MS. : This is 14 MR. : On the top. 15 MS. : -- yes. 16 MR. : And that's the -. You guys 17 put the -- 18 MS. : The tape on it. Yes. 19 MR. : -- the tape on it, to make 20 sure. 21 MR. : Yeah. That's it. When 22 you say you guys, SIS did? 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00127091

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 139 1 MR. : Sorry. 2 MS. : Oh. 3 MR. : No, no, no. 4 MR. : So, is this from the outside 5 of his cell, the second picture? 6 MS. : Yeah. 7 MR. : With 8 MS. : This is the outside. Yes. 9 MR. : So, what is this wire coming 10 up? Is that the CPAP machine? 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And you said you 13 removed it from the cell? 14 MS. : Yeah. We took the CPAP 15 machine. 16 MR. : Okay. And the CPAP machine 17 only extends to right there? 18 MS. : I can't remember where it was 19 located at. I just know she went, you know, 20 took it out. 21 MR. : So, what -. 22 MR. : Was there - on the CPAP 23 machine and that cord specifically - was there 24 any indication that he may have used that to 25 strangle, to attempt to harm himself, or EFTA00127092

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 1 someone else attempt to harm him? 2 MS. : No. Just the, like, the - 3 just the CPAP machine with the cord. 4 MR. : So, was the cord not, 5 like, disheveled, or out of place? Was it 6 straight from the machine, all the way to where 7 it was plugged in? 8 MS. : I can't remember. 9 MR. : Okay. But there was 10 nothing -- 11 MS. : I can't. 12 MR. : -- that indicated that he 13 was strangled by anything other than the noose 14 that they found in there? 15 MS. : No. 16 MR. : Nothing indicated that 17 the CPAP machine or cord was used? 18 MS. : No. Hmm-mm. 19 MR. : No. Okay. 20 MR. : What happened to the CPAP 21 machine? 22 MS. : It's in the SIS shop. In the 23 inventory. 24 MR. : Oh, it's still there? 25 MS. : It should be still there. EFTA00127093

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 1 I've been going for a while. But yes. 2 MR. : Okay. But that was taken as 3 a -- 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. -- evidence? Okay. Now, 6 we've seen a lot of the orange. What is that? 7 Is that sheets? 8 MS. : They look like sheets. 9 MR. : And if you notice, there's a 10 mattress on the floor. 11 MS. : Yeah. 12 MR. : Is that where Epstein slept? 13 MS. : I don't know. 14 MR. : Okay. Do you know if that's 15 where they found his body? 16 MS. : I don't know. 17 MR. : Okay. Okay. So, this might 18 be upside down. 19 MR. : So, they were -- 20 MR. : I'll just -. 21 MR. : -- were all the lines and 22 sheets, were they, then, if they weren't 23 inventoried, were they all discarded? 24 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 25 MR. : You don't know. Okay. EFTA00127094

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 1 MR. : Now, this picture - sorry, I 2 had to flip it a couple of times - it looks 3 like it's from the corner -- 4 MS. : Right. 5 MR. -- looking into the cell. 6 What are these things that's tied up on? 7 MS. : This, and like these? 8 MR. : Yeah. Is that just to hang 9 clothes? 10 MS. : They're clothes lines. They 11 use them normally. Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Well, what about this? 13 MS. : I don't know. 14 MR. : So, there's a ladder here 15 that goes up to the second floor. 16 MS. : Right. 17 MR. : Okay. And it looks like 18 there's a whole bunch of items on top. And 19 between the materials that's on the floor, and 20 the materials on the bed, you said there was an 21 excessive amount of linen and -- 22 MS. : Linen. 23 MR. -- linen. Okay. 24 MR. : Who would be responsible 25 for providing a linen, or removing a linen? EFTA00127095

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 1 MS. : That would be the SHU 2 officers. 3 MR. : Okay. So, people in the 4 SHU? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : And was that at all 7 questioned, like, hey, why was there someone's 8 linen in there? 9 MS. : I don't. I didn't question 10 them. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MS. : So, I can't I don't know 13 if anybody else did. 14 MR. : Okay. And if the cell 15 searches were being conducted, would that be 16 the time that they would actually take -- 17 MS. : Take everything. 18 MR. : -- the linen out? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : So, what are we looking at, 22 at this picture? Is that the AED (Phonetic Sp. 23 *01:41:43) machine? 24 MS. : Yes. 25 MR. : And what is this right here? EFTA00127096

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 1 MS. : I don't want to say the word 2 noose, but, you know, that's what it looks like 3 to me. 4 MR. : Okay. And where exactly on 5 it, is this on the floor? Is that on the 6 corner? 7 MS. : I don't know from the angle. 8 MR. : But you know of, would 9 you know if this was the noose that was 10 actually -- 11 MS. : This was -. 12 MR. : -- used -? 13 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 14 MR. : Do you know if there were 15 multiple nooses? 16 MS. : I don't know. I don't r= 17 seeing. No. I don't recall. No. 18 MR. : And where is -? What 19 happened to the noose? 20 MS. : It's in the SIS shop. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : Yeah. The SIS. 23 MR. : Still to this day? 24 MS. : It should be. 25 MR. : When was the last time you EFTA00127097

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 1 saw it there? 2 MS. : It's been a while. I've been 3 out of work for some time. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : What is your 6 understanding of how the noose -? How they got 7 Epstein down? Do you know if it was ripped, or 8 if it was cut? Or do you know anything about 9 that? 10 MS. : I don't know. Nobody never 11 said. 12 MR. : Okay. So, you never 13 looked at it. 14 MR. : Because no one said it to 15 you? 16 MS. : Right. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : But not when you were' 19 collecting this evidence, though, wasn't 20 clearly, you know? Do you know if anything was 21 still hanging from where he was hung from, or 22 do you know if it was taken off of him after 23 they -? 24 MS. : I don't know. 25 MR. : You don't know. And who EFTA00127098

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 146 1 would be the person to talk to about that? 2 MS. : The responders. 3 MR. : Like, the first 4 responders? 5 MS. : Yeah. 6 MR. : As in, like, and 7 8 MS. : Yeah. The responders would 9 have seen the condition of the cell. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : Now, this is a picture. It 12 looks like -- 13 MS. : The bottom of that. 14 MR. : -- what is this right here? 15 This is a -- 16 MS. : A mattress. 17 MR. : -- is that another mattress? 18 MS. : Yeah. It look like it. 19 Yeah. 20 MR. : So, there is two mattresses 21 on top of each other? 22 MS. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : Okay. Let's go back 24 (Indiscernible *01:43:26). Another mattress on 25 the floor? Because I don't see two mattresses EFTA00127099

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 here. Right? 2 MS. : No. That's only one. 3 MR. : Oh, that's the -- 4 MS. : Again 5 MR. : -- bottom one here. Okay. 6 MS. : I don't know who took the 7 pictures. I know she took a set of pictures, 8 and then when the FBI came in, they were 9 searching the cell, and they took a set of 10 pictures. So, I really don't know whose 11 pictures those are. 12 MR. : Is that two mattresses, or 13 just one mattress? 14 MS. : It looks like one. 15 MR. : One. Okay. But so, I 16 thought this picture taken, another mattress 17 was put on top? 18 MS. : Right. This look like two. 19 Of course, well, it is two. So, I don't know. 20 MR. : And look at this pill 21 bottles. There's different medications sitting 22 on the top bunk? 23 MS. : Yeah. 24 MR. : Are those things allowed in 25 the SHU? EFTA00127100

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 148 1 MS. : The inmates, I think, are 2 allowed to have their medications. 3 MR. : It's not something where the 4 medical comes by? It's because they're in the 5 SHU, medical comes by daily and gives them the 6 medication? 7 MS. : They normally do, do a pill 8 line daily. I don't know why he had -. 9 MR. : Well, it's dependent on 10 the medication. 11 MS. : It is. 12 MR. : Correct? Some 13 MS. : Yeah. 14 MR. : -- some medication can be 15 provided -- 16 MS. : Because I've seen -- 17 MR. : -- through self-care. 18 MS. -- yes. Yes. 19 MR. : Right. 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Some needs to be provided 22 by the medical staff. 23 MR. : And that's the picture of the 24 noose. Something you guys took, or -? 25 MS. : The one that we took. Yeah. EFTA00127101

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 1 MR. • 2 MR. ■ 3 the same -- 4 MS. • 5 : Okay. : Do you know if this is : Let me see. MR. : -- one that we looked in 6 the other picture, though? 7 MS. : Not that. I don't know. 8 MR. : It looks like that. There's 9 different pictures of the noose. 10 MS. : Yeah. 11 MR. : All right. And we've got a 12 picture of bed. With all the linen on it. 13 MS. : Okay. 14 MR. : And that's all the materials 15 that was on the top bunk. 16 MS. : Okay. 17 MR. : Did you 18 MR. : You didn't take these 19 pictures, though. Correct? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : Did you even go into the 22 cell, at the time, to see all of this? 23 MS. : No. They -. When the other 24 agencies was there, and we were out. On the 25 outside. EFTA00127102

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 1 MR. : Okay. So, but 2 the one who took these pictures? 3 MS. : I don't know if these are her 4 set of pictures because the FBI took pictures, 5 as well. So, I don't know -- 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : -- if you have hers or 8 theirs. 9 MR. : I gotcha. 10 MR. : Before the FBI got in, was 11 anything moved in the cell? 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : Okay. So, yeah. This is 14 the kind of overall picture, and this is where 15 it kind of, you know, looks like there's 16 definitely an excessive amount of linens. 17 Correct? 18 MS. : On these pictures, yes. 19 MR. : And is that a security 20 issue, if there is an excessive -- 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : -- amount of linen? And 23 what is that reason that that would be a 24 security issue? 25 MS. : Excessive. The inmates been EFTA00127103

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 1 known, you know, and to start fires. Suicide 2 inmates, that's excessive for them. 3 Definitely. 4 MR. : So, inmates that came off of 5 suicide watch, or is, like, an observation, 6 they shouldn't have -? 7 MS. : No. They shouldn't have that 8 much linen. 9 MR. : Okay. You would - I know 10 you've been speaking - but you don't know where 11 exactly he hung himself, or where the body was 12 found, or anything like that? 13 MS. : No. I don't know. 14 MR. : Do you know if - for 15 instance, this, this looks like potentially 16 where he hung himself around - do you know if 17 this was placed back up there, or if that 18 remained there, undisturbed? 19 MS. : I don't know. 20 MR. : You don't know. Okay. 21 So, where is now? 22 MS. : I'm assuming she's here. 23 MR. : Okay. So, she still 24 works here? 25 MS. : Yes. Oh -- EFTA00127104

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. 2 MS. 3 Yeah. 4 MR. 152 : Okay. : -- that's what you mean. : And she's still an -- 5 MS. : SIS. 6 MR. : -- an SIS? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : Okay. So, she would be 9 really the person - she took photos - she would 10 be the person to ask about -- 11 MS. : Yes. She did take photos. 12 MR. : -- these things? 13 MS. : Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 15 MS. : Mm-hmm. No problem. 16 MR. : Did she have any 17 involvement with investigation? Was she here 18 prior to your arrival? 19 MS. : I don't know if she was here. 20 MR. : Was that -? 21 MS. : No. She wasn't here. No. 22 She wasn't here. 23 MR. : So, she came after -- 24 MS. : Yes. 25 MR. : -- you arrived. And did EFTA00127105

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 153 1 you immediately say, go take photographs, or 2 what did you tell her to do? 3 MS. : We went up to do the photo -. 4 Tape the door up. We went up to tape the door 5 up. I don't remember at what point she took 6 photographs of the cell. 7 MR. : But it wasn't that day? 8 MS. : No. I don't think she went 9 inside -. Because it was blocked off. So, 10 nobody went inside that day. We just took the 11 angle you see of the door. Just so we could 12 show that we taped it off. 13 MR. : Did the FBI go in that 14 day? 15 MS. : When they came, yes. 16 MR. : Okay. SIS did not go in 17 that day? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. : Just the FBI? 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Was there video taken, or 24 just pictures? 25 MS. : I don't know. We didn't take EFTA00127106

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 1 any videos. 2 MR. : Okay. Nothing? 3 MR. : Oh, no. Okay. It sounds 4 like the FBI is the people to talk about, with 5 the - as far as who went in there first, to -- 6 MS. : Yeah. They went in -- 7 MR. : -- to take pictures. 8 MS. we just escorted them up. 9 I escorted them up there, and -. 10 MR. : Do you know if anything - 11 after they removed Epstein's body from the cell 12 - do you know if they anybody went back into 13 that cell? 14 MS. : I don't know. 15 MR. : You don't know? 16 MS. : I don't know. 17 MR. : Prior to the FBI going 18 in? 19 MS. : Yeah. 20 MR. : When Epstein was brought up 21 to the hospital, do you know what he was 22 wearing? Do you know if there was an inventory 23 stuff on the -? You know, the clothes that was 24 on him. What happened to the stuff that was 25 inventoried? EFTA00127107

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 155 1 MS. : I don't know. 2 MR. : Was anything brought back? 3 MS. : No. Nothing was brought 4 back. But the disk with the pictures they took 5 out there. 6 MR. : Do you know, did you hear of 7 when R&D, was any R&D officers sent to the 8 hospital? 9 MS. : I don't know if the officers 10 was there. The supervisor, Mr. 11 (Phonetic Sp. *01:48:57) went out to the 12 hospital. 13 MR. : And when they go out on a 14 situation like this, do they go to the hospital 15 with anything with them? Like cameras. 16 MS. : Yeah. You took the pictures. 17 And he - I think he did the fingerprints. 18 MR. : So, he did take pictures? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : It's on a camera provided by 21 MCC? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : And he took fingerprints 24 also? 25 MS. : I think he did fingerprints EFTA00127108

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 1 also. 2 MR. : Did he also take a video, 3 or just camera pictures? 4 MS. : Just pictures. 5 MR. : Do you know where those 6 pictures are? 7 MS. : On my home drive. 8 MR. : Okay. Is that another 9 thing that we can ask you to send to us, as 10 well -- 11 MS. : Okay. 12 MR. : -- to make it a little 13 less, and then we'll send in an email out. 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MS. : Mm-hmm. 16 MR. : Is there a reason -? 17 MS. : (Indiscernible *01:49:37). 18 Oh, it's (Indiscernible *01:49:39). I was -. 19 Because I had a binder, too. I was -. I'm 20 just trying to brainstorm, see if I could get 21 it to you guys while you're here. That's what 22 23 MR. : Is there a reason why 24 - sorry - that went to the hospital, 25 took pictures on his personal phone, and texted EFTA00127109

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 157 1 that over to the AW? 2 MS. : I didn't even know he went to 3 the hospital. This is the first I'm hearing he 4 went to the hospital. 5 MR. : He said he was under the 6 impression that the R&D did come in with the 7 camera, but they left without taking any 8 pictures, and they took the camera with them. 9 MS. : I don't know why he was under 10 the impression because he brought the camera 11 back, and I downloaded the pictures off of it. 12 MR. : Is there any policy about 13 just anyone, you know, C.O.s, any BOP employees 14 taking pictures on their personal phone, for 15 suicide, or anyone like that? 16 MS. : You shouldn't be taking any. 17 MR. : Are you familiar 18 MS. : Any pictures. 19 MR. : -- if there's any policy like 20 that? 21 MS. : I don't know if it's a 22 policy. I don't know. 23 MR. : But as far as you know, you 24 never got those pictures? 25 MS. : From Mr. EFTA00127110

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 158 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MS. : No. 3 MR. : Okay. Do you have any 4 questions in regards to that topic? 5 MR. : Nope. 6 MR. : Have you heard - did you hear 7 anything about doors in the SHU being left 8 unlocked? 9 MS. : No. 10 MR. : Was there ever any issues 11 about C.O.s possibly leaving the SHU doors 12 unlocked, the tiers doors unlocked, so it's 13 easier to walk in and out? 14 MS. : I don't know. 15 MR. : Okay. What about cell doors? 16 Did you ever hear any rumors about possibly 17 that cell doors in Epstein's tier was left 18 unlocked? 19 MS. : No. I never heard it. 20 MR. : What is your 21 understanding of how Epstein -? Of what 22 happened with Epstein? 23 MS. : My understanding was, they 24 found him, I guess sitting on the floor, with a 25 rope around his neck. And I don't know who EFTA00127111

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 159 1 went in the cell first. But I did hear was 2 Mr. , Ms. I heard Lieutenant 3 and I don't remember who it was from medical. 4 MR. : As far as when he was 5 found, though, was it your understanding that 6 he did whatever happened to him, to himself? 7 MS. : That's what my understanding 8 was. 9 MR. : Do you have any 10 information at all that would suggest that 11 Epstein did not harm himself, and that someone 12 else harmed him? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : No. 15 MR. : Did he have any threats from 16 other inmates? 17 MS. : I don't know. 18 MR. : Okay. Anything else? 19 MR. : Nope. 20 MR. : Did you ever interact with 21 Epstein while he was at the -? 22 MS. : When I did the first suicide 23 attempt, allegedly. 24 MR. : After that. Have there been 25 any interactions? EFTA00127112

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 160 1 MS. : No interaction. I just seen 2 him in attorney area because he did his 3 attorney visits pretty much all day. So, if I 4 would walk by and see him, I will step in and 5 ask him was he okay. Normally, he will just 6 give the thumbs up, and you know, I will walk 7 away. But if I see him, I definitely will ask. 8 You know, you okay, anything you need? And he 9 will just throw the thumbs up. 10 MR. : Was he given any special 11 privileges here at the MCC? 12 MS. : Not that I know of. 13 MR. : Being that -. What is your 14 understanding about him having attorney 15 conference every day? Did you know that he was 16 in attorney conference pretty much every day, 17 from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.? 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : Was that something that was 20 afforded to other inmates? 21 MS. : I've seen it done before. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : So, it's happened in the 25 past? EFTA00127113

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. So, it's not just him? 3 MS. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : Okay. Do you know which 5 other inmates? 6 MR. : No. We don't need to -. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : I don't know. 9 MR. : I got nothing else on the -. 10 MR. : So, these are - when we 11 were talking about count slips previously - 12 this is what I was talking about. So, do you 13 see, all these other counts, this was the 10:00 14 p.m. count on August 9th. All these other 15 count slips have crosses all over them. 16 They're checking, you know, say, from our 17 understanding, it says as one, d ft things come 18 in, they check them off. 19 MS. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : Well, these two that one 21 is from R&D, and one is from the SHU, one) they 22 don't have the check marks coming off of; and 23 two) they ZA one, which is the SHU, says 73+1. 24 And the R&D says 95+1. Do you know anything 25 about that? EFTA00127114

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 162 1 MS. : No. I don't know what the 2 plus one stands for. 3 MR. : No. Do you know anything 4 about, like, ghost counting, or anything of 5 that nature? 6 MS. : I've heard them ghost count 7 before. If an inmate was in medical during a 8 count. 9 MR. : Would they put, like -- 10 MS. : One. 11 MR. : -- a plus one on the slip 12 if they're ghost counting? 13 MS. : I've never seen. I've never 14 seen a plus one, when I've taken a count. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : To be honest with you. I've 17 never seen a plus one. 18 MR. : And when you said that 19 you were handling the count slips, or 20 collecting them, did you remember seeing 21 anything like that, with the NS+1, or the 22 MS. : I don't remember. 23 MR. : You don't remember? 24 MS. : I don't remember. 25 MR. : Is that very abnormal to EFTA00127115

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you, that those things are on there? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Yes. I would have sent this 5 count slip back because plus one -- 6 MR. : Or it -- 7 MS. doesn't tell me 8 MR. -- it may have been the 9 people that were doing the count, that wrote 10 it, is actually where the thought is. 11 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 12 MR. : But you don't know. 13 MS. : I've never seen a plus one. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : In terms of, if there is 16 possibly a suicide, is there, during training, 17 are C.O.s taught what actions to take if they 18 think that there's a possible suicide attempt 19 in a cell? 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : What is the training? 22 MS. : We get suicide prevention 23 training yearly, during annual refresher 24 training, the psychology conduct mock 25 exercises. EFTA00127116

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 1 MR. : And what do they teach you? 2 Like, if you see something. If you see 3 possible suicide. What is the C.O. supposed to 4 do? 5 MS. : First, you're going to yell 6 for help, or for a supervisor, but when you 7 have another staff member with you, you could 8 open the door and attempt to free that person, 9 if - for instance - if it's a noose or 10 something to that effect. 11 MR. : They don't have to wait for 12 other C.O.s to respond? 13 MS. : Well, it is recommended that 14 you have somebody with you. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : It is recommended that you 17 have somebody with you. 18 MR. : Recommended, not 19 required? 20 MS. : I don't think it's required. 21 MR. : Is there part of the 22 security part where it could be a rouse to get 23 you in, and then they could overthrow you? 24 MS. : Absolutely. Absolutely. 25 MR. : So, is that why -? So, EFTA00127117

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 165 1 our understanding was that it was actually a 2 requirement that you're not supposed to go in 3 4 MS. : By yourself. 5 MR. : -- by yourself. 6 MS. : Just in case there is a fake 7 attempt or something to get in you. 8 MR. : Anything else? 9 MR. : Nope. 10 MR. : I got nothing else in my line 11 of questioning. 12 MR. : Great. Yeah, no. So, 13 there is no, nothing for you to believe that 14 Epstein did anything other than take his own 15 life? 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : Okay. And then, that 18 these other things were just systematic 19 failures. What do you think overall led to 20 Epstein being able to take his own life? 21 MS. : I want to say the systematic 22 failures, the breakdown with, you know, 23 although we don't know the previous attempt, we 24 don't know the logistics, right? So, if we 25 know we had this inmate, we should have been EFTA00127118

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 166 1 watching him a little bit better, I think. 2 MR. : So, do you think the main 3 reasons would be, if counts and rounds weren't 4 being conducted, would that be a big factor 5 into why he was able to kill himself? 6 MS. : Yes. I would say so, because 7 if you know nobody is walking around. 8 MR. : What about the fact that 9 he didn't have a cellmate, and he was supposed 10 to have a cellmate? 11 MS. : That, as well. 12 MR. : Do you think one of them 13 is more important than the other? Or do they 14 go hand in hand? 15 MS. : I think they go hand in hand. 16 MR. : Okay. So, they're both 17 as equally -- 18 MS. : Yes. 19 MR. : -- as important. is 20 there anything else, aside from those two main 21 issues, that you think led to Epstein's death? 22 MS. : I really can't say. I don't 23 know. 24 MR. : Okay. Anything that we 25 didn't ask you, that we should know about? EFTA00127119

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 167 1 MS. : No. You guys pretty much 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MS. much asked 4 MR. : No. I know we 5 MS. : -- everything. 6 MR. : -- we covered a lot. 7 Great. 8 MR. : Well, thank you for taking 9 the time to talk to us today. 10 MS. : Yeah. 11 MR. : Can we just have -- 12 MS. : No problem. 13 MR. : -- her initial? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Okay. So, the thing 16 that, we just - so that we know we talked, that 17 all these have to get attached to the 18 recording. If you could just initial. For 19 instance, this pack. Just initial the top 20 photograph, because there's anything 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. : -- so you don't have to 23 go through none of them. But the things that 24 we discussed, if you don't mind just -- 25 MS. : No problem. EFTA00127120

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 168 1 MR. : -- initialing and dating. 2 And today's date is 3 MS. : The 23rd. Correct? 4 MR. -- correct. So, 9/23/21. 5 MS. : Oh, I feel special. I got a 6 new pen. Oh. 7 MR. : Oh. There goes that. I just 8 had the other pen. Okay, there you go, sir. 9 MS. : Yeah. 10 MR. : I apologize. 11 MS. : Okay. 12 MR. : And it goes government pens. 13 MR. : Anything else? 14 MR. : No. 15 MS. : (Indiscernible *01:59:01). 16 MR. : (Indiscernible *01:59:15). 17 MR. : Okay. Thank you very 18 much. 19 MS. : Yeah. No problem. 20 MR. : Is that all of it? The 21 things we covered. 22 MR. : I'm just looking for -- 23 MR. : You have the most -- 24 MR. oh, that's everything. 25 MR. -: -- beautiful handwriting EFTA00127121

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 169 1 I think I've ever seen. It's like calligraphy. 2 MS. : Oh, really? I thought it 3 was, like, chicken scratch and all over the 4 place. 5 MR. : No. And once I saw it, I 6 was, like, wow. That is pretty impressive. 7 MS. : Okay. 8 MR. : Okay. You want to end 9 it? 10 MR. : Yeah. So, we've going to end 11 the interview. The time is 11:19 a.m. on 12 September 23rd, 2021. This is Special Agent 13 . I'm ending the interview. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00127122

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00127123