I'm going to ask if we could put the name on the record. Of course. Good morning. My name is Assistant Special Agent at Charge Spencer Horn of FBI New York. Today we're doing a proper of his Maxwell. The date is July 24th and the time is 10-12 am. This interview is being recorded. My name is Todd Blantz. I'm the Deputy Attorney General. Before we start formally asking questions of this Maxwell, I'm going to put on the record everybody that's in this room in addition to me. So I don't have to be a DA guy. I'm Diego Pastana, Deputy Attorney General. And then you heard from Special Agent in Charge Horn. Mark Beard from the United States Marshall Services here as well. And then David. Yes, this is David Oscar Marcus and I'm Council for the Land Max. Well, my name is Theo Safian and I'm Council for the Land Max. I'm Dr. Nielis Lillison Agito and I'm Council for the Land Max. And I'm Anky Lennemax. Good morning, this Maxwell. How are you? Good. Okay, so before we started recording, we met for a few minutes. I introduced myself and we've chatted and now I told you that we were going on the record. And before we start asking questions, I know that you've been given by your lawyer a copy of what's called a proper agreement. And I just want to spend two minutes making sure that you understand what governs our conversation today. The most important part of this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation agreement, meaning that by you meeting with us today, we're really just meeting. I'm not promising to do anything. I'm not promising to ask Judge Nathan or any of the judges has been assigned to your case to do anything. We're just talking and so that's the most important important part of this agreement. However, almost as important is the fact that what this agreement does for you is it gives you protection. So what it means is that the government cannot use what you say today against you with some exceptions, which we'll talk about in a minute. But whatever you talk about today, you have what's called immunity. So that means that the words that you say today, we cannot use against you in a case in chief if we were able to bring one. Okay. Thank you. There's exceptions to that. The most meaningful one of which is that if you say something that's not true, that's a lie. We can bring a prosecution against you for what's called false statements. So I'm a federal officer. I have several officers here. The FBI is here and if you lie to someone that's like me or like a special agent horn, it's a crime. So you have to be truthful. The other exception to this that doesn't necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a criminal case, a future criminal case against you, and your lawyer or you said something different or took a position that's different than what you say today, we can then cross examine you or witness based upon what you say today. So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I can't use what you say against you in our case in chief. However, if you were to testify or if your lawyer called a witness to testify and they said something that's totally different than what you say today, we could then cross examine you or the witness and say, hey, do you remember when we met witness Max? Well, that couldn't July of 2025. She told us and then say what she said. I understand. Other than that, I know you didn't have a lot of time this morning to meet with Mr. Marcus, but did you have a chance to go over this briefly with him? I did. Okay. Alright, so I've already signed it as has special agent horn and Mr. Marcus signed it as well. So you got a time, please sign it, right where it says clients. Yep. And I will provide a copy of this to your lawyer so you guys have it. Okay. Thank you. So Miss Maxwell, about a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, you see that I like going on there. On that Sony. Yeah, there it is. Okay, we're just confirming that it works and it does. Miss Maxwell, I guess about a week and a half or two weeks ago, Mr. Marcus reached out to me and said that you wanted to speak with somebody from the government about not only your case, but about everything that's been in the media and that's been publicized about Mr. Appstein in your case. That is true and I did speak to him and I did ask him if he did tell him that I would be very keen to anyone because no one in government at any time ever could be sitting in the section of the case. So it goes back to the only two counties, has ever spoken to me and indeed I believe ever reached out to him and at any time to even speak to him. And that includes up to when I was indicted and prosecuted. I believe that I understand, I should say, rather than that, my attempts at the time did tell the government that I wanted to speak to him because I was very keen to meet with anyone so that I could tell him, have been asking me at any time, I never had any problem just to speak to anybody and I offered myself. And I kept asking if I could make a visit, I could put some money for whatever reason. I have questions that I want to ask you but if there's a path that a question that I'm not asking that you think should be asked, I'm like you to volunteer, same thing goes to your lawyer. Just to start a little bit very briefly, can you talk about when you first met Mr. Epstein, I know that goes back a while and just very generally talk about your relationship with Mr. Epstein from the time he met him all the way up until his death. I met Mr. Epstein in 1991. I've never heard of him or met him before and no one in my family had ever either. My father never knew him and I'll explain why that is the case. What did you, what did you meet him? I had a girlfriend who I was, I moved to America briefly and I moved to America in 1990. I loved to visit America in 1990. I had been running my own company until that time, which was a company called Maxwell's Corporate Gifts. And I had also been working for my father at the time. I had multiple jobs within when I was 1990. I was working with a new company at his, a new speaker that he was making a copy here again. And I was in charge of launching a magazine to go with the review of the review. And I was travelling at that time, fully into America because my father was looking to... Well, he was also bought at the Mellon, the publishing house and he had purchased the new or the new. And it's true that my father always wanted me to come back full-time and work for him. But that's a much longer story. I don't think we need to go into it at this time. But I was always working with him. There was no escape here as it were to work for him. So in 1990, I had come over to New York to help look at some of that. It was having some advertising issues with New York Daily News and in fact a make-up net. I don't have time for that time because my father was friendly with him and liked him very much. I think it should be said that he was so friendly much like... He's on a... Because he was also from Czechoslovakia when my dad was free. So I don't remember if I did meet him or not. He was in 1990 with my dad but I knew that that's how I knew about my name's different. And this was before you met? This was before I met him. So I was already going back to New York in America and then... April 1991, I came to New York that I can't remember for what reason or business reason. There was a business reason. It's something to do with my dad at that time. And a girlfriend of mine who I'm an American told me I've broken up with my mom. I've been engaged very long time by the way. I've been very close to my friends. I've got a guy to meet me. Who is it? He's been dating my sister and loving her. He's looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I need to tell you guys that's an important moment for a girl. I still think about the court of things. I still like being happy to meet him. So sometimes in 1991, we were in 1991. I met him at his offices in NASA. I think the most memorable thing I could think about that is he was wearing a tie which he didn't offer to do. He had a giant smite that kept shocked to see. It sounds like wow. That was how we met. Was your meeting at his office for you to meet him personally? Were you there for work or laterations? I was just sitting there. I had nothing to do. I just invited me to come and have tea. I was like tea, that same dish. But the book was on the usual. I went to his offices and we met. I had some very engaging. That was that. I didn't want to spend a lot of time on this particular issue. What happened with your relationship over the years from the time you meet him in 1991 until the time you passed away? Just give the highlights. I was looking for real estate for my dad to buy some money. He was also looking to move from his apartment. I was looking for a place to look for him. That's how it started. In 1991 my father passed away. I returned to New York after that originally to come back and help with family businesses. I was admittedly admittedly. Then the tobacco of my father passed away. I kept my family and we lost our business. My family thought that it would be best to pass the age of America because of the intensity of the press. The drama was surrounding my father's death. I stayed and I kept helping him find a house. I could decorate the house. Were you in a romantic relationship with her at this point? Yes, just friends. What was your father's relationship? Did you have any knowledge about that? I think my father had background in intelligence because he was... I think he did in the second level. I think that my belief is that it's like superman intelligence. It doesn't mean that you're formally employed. I don't think my dad had any formal sense was employed by any agency. When I was very significant in businessmen and competition as my father was. I think I was able to make people learn the timing. I guess, try to understand the idea. I think it's out before and after that definition. I have no formal knowledge of anything specific to it. If you're asking me if I could help people, the answer would be yes. Your father and Mr. Epstein have a business relationship over the years. I know we're maybe jumping around a little bit. They never met. As far as you know, they never met. No, they never met. How do you know they never met? I'm just categorically known they never met. Well, because after, in 1991 before my father died, he asked me if I met anybody interesting or whatever, because I was still trying not to be sucked back into the family business. I told him that I had met Mr. Epstein. The reason why I shared that I met Mr. Epstein was because I believed at that time that Epstein worked for best times. Best times was one of our best. I knew that my father was friendly with both Jane and with A Screamer. So my dad came, was it actually in New York? I think. I don't think I had this conversation on the phone, but I was talking 30 years ago. So I'm not sure. But if I may be, I told him this, that they think it was heaven. I know that what my dad did, whether I saw it or whether I did it or told me later, I don't remember. But he called both Jimmy Kane and A Screamer to ask if what sort of guy he was and wasn't even allowed to. Because I'm not. So they never met. He didn't even know who he was. They knew some of the same people. It sounds like for certainly the Bear Stearns connection was something that you knew that they had. Look, he never had a connection with Epstein. He had a connection with the bank. I mean, Epstein, I'd never heard of him in New York and before. And I was suddenly, if my dad had known him right, when I said, this is who he was, he didn't know who he was. So he rang AIDS and he rang Jimmy to ask if it was okay that I even knew him. And I just want to explain briefly why my father would even do such a thing. So. I've had some interesting things that have happened in my life. And one of them was to be found on an IRA, Kignav and Murdered List. And so after that happened, well, there were other related, I'm not going to avoid you. There's all the horrible things in that vein. But if you want, the details, of course, they can. But after that happened, my father wanted to put a lot of protection in his head. And I declined all the accounts that were very life-restricting events, all in order for some. I know you understand that. And so he had told me that I'd be taking my life in my own hands. And so I think after that, it's in several others where I had some inquiries and that one has. He was always quite protective of me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and verify that they were going to do anything serious. And so in case you thought it was weird that he would call Jimmy an ace. You may think it is, but in my perspective, he was just because he was concerned. I was in America alone. And he had an opportunity to verify who this person was. And so I don't know if I'm saying the real thing. I know that at some point, my father told me he's fine. You can see him. Yeah. He's safe. Okay. Well, okay. So we might come back and touch a little bit more on that at some point. But I went down a rabbit hole for a minute. That's right. I just wanted to. No, that's helpful. Thank you. So, okay. So you're now in the 90s and your friends with Mr. Epstein, your house, the decorating the house, or the apartment. What happened with your relationship again? I know we're talking about a 35-year-old time spirit or whatever. But to the extent you can kind of add a very high level of talk about it. Listen, I think just full disclosure is the best way to go at this point. So in 1992, I slept in one time. And I was like, oh, that's it. We're going to be dating. Because that's how I thought. And I kind of thought of myself in that moment. Because if you slept with someone, you were very. Thank you. That's the world I came for. But that really worked well. That's how it worked. But we didn't sleep together again for, I don't know, really a significant period of time. I don't know if it was a year. I don't feel that feels long, but maybe nine months, a long time. I just want to go back. So I had found a house for him to rent in New York. Because he would ask me, I'd been looking for my father and I found one, which was a former Iranian embassy. I think it was. I think it belonged to the Iranians. It was the Iraqis. Come on. Here we go. And I didn't know that he had any money for him. I want to say this $1,000 a month, which can you say that culture? And I said to myself, I found his house, but that picture can include it. It was a bit different. Of course, I feel really rentable. And that house came with, it was a state department house because it was under sectorization or whatever it was. And I couldn't back together, but it was certainly a little bit of pain because it had to go back and gave it back to the country. So he had this house and I had moved into a ten-foot-by-tank foot department because all of our staff would be lost. Frozen or whatever. So he became a Muslim and went back to the country because I was just like, I kept hearing this. It felt very similar to his life, if that makes sense. Anyway, so, but I had no teachers house. I had no free access to his house. And in the entire time that he lived there, which was like, even until the beginning of 1996, I never slept until something like that. I never felt that. But you, so you said a minute ago that you slept with him on one occasion and at the time you remember thinking that this meant you were in a relationship but then it didn't really were not in that type of relationship. So I thought, did that change between 1991 and 1992 or whatever and years forward? So I did travel with him. So I would go to his house and then he would really have that house actually. No, that's not true. Yeah, the house in Palo Beach and we had a house in Ohio. In where? Ohio. And we had the house in Ohio because of his business relationship with Mr. Waxman. And I had to go and decorate and put that house together. When we traveled together, we stayed in St. Petersburg, but not in England. But I did it. Go ahead, it's okay, talk. So you stayed, so when you would travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or even just traveling, if it was just traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed. So sleep in the same bed with him. Yeah. Okay. That's the until we had a heart condition. Heart condition. Okay. Which meant that he didn't have intercourse with. Which is a good sign because I actually do have a medical condition which includes having a lot of intercourse. So what was your understanding of his heart condition and why that prevented him from having intercourse regularly? I mean, he liked other forms of sexual activity. Well, let's come back. We're going to obviously spend a lot of time on the actual conductives of QZ. So we'll come back to that. So pick up where you were talking about you traveling around with him. He rented the New York, I form a Iranian house. Iranian. Until around 96. That time, I believe you said that he was basically your life. Like you're with him pretty regularly. Well, I never was with him that way. That was one of those missing moments. I mean, at the beginning I did see him all the time but I worked with his office. So I would go to the office and I would see him. And I would count in my head when I would see him. I would count that I would, that'd be a day that I would see. But I didn't, I never ever stayed with him. I believe certainly until 93 or 94, what I didn't know is that I think he'd be still with his actual record, who is Eva Anderson, who became Eva Dupin. They had been together my understanding. I think about 10 years, I'm not sure, but that's what I think, 10 years. And I had understood from my girlfriend initially that they worked together and absolutely himself were told that they were not together. But I don't think that was true. I don't know exactly. So they were together up until I think 94 when, that something would have been happening either in that film, Eva, and Dupin. And they got married. I think 94, I don't remember when they got married. But her, she was his best friend and his everything. He told me that he always wished that he had known her and had a child with her. And I know that they, she was family for him, for his whole life. And I think even, I'm not sure this is true, that you guys were known for this is true or not. When he came from back from Paris and he restitated, I don't know if Eva was on the clean. Now I think that either I read it in the discovery that I received, or I saw it somewhere, but even if she wasn't on the clean, there must have been some email communication where she was in Paris at the same time. I'm going to fly back. One of the other, I don't know this one, is the correct version of that. But so they were still obviously very close and remained throughout the entire family. So she was so happy. And so I also know now, which I didn't know at the time, was that he still looks a little bit better than me. And I know that now because I can see it from the flight logs. And I know it now because I can see from the emails. So you know from the case that, for what happened? Yes, I didn't know that a lot. At the tempering, you see, I absolutely didn't know that. So we're going to spend time on everything you're talking about, but just to close out big picture of your relationship. So we're now in the late 90s, continue on with, again, saying high level to the extent you can about your relationship with him. So my responsibility is increased with each acquisition and each new project. So I believe the first thing that he purchased after was the ranch in New Mexico. And so what he had asked me with that one time, I think that was purchased in 1994, I think. So he had asked me, one of the things that we did was visit in my mind, I say every state, but it wouldn't have been every state, it's to go look at real estate and property. And so I know we went to Montana, I know we went to Utah, and it was, it was to go look at real estate's farm, to be honest. And then I arranged for us to go to New Mexico, and he just loved New Mexico. And then I don't remember how the ranch happened, I don't remember that now it's lost. And he ended up buying the ranch, I think. From right it came from the keyless name in the government, I bought the ranch, and then I had to deal with that. And dealing with that was the extent, so I think the way that I was with myself, or the way that I think is the best way to explain how I'd be my role as a general manager, because each property to me was like a hotel. So the ranch was very challenging, because not only that, but it had BLM loans. So to maintain your BLM, you have to have a capital. And I love animals, and so the first thing is horses. So I wanted it, if you don't have a ranch, I like authenticity, so I don't think you should have a ranch. If you're not going to have the things that make it special. So were you paid by him along the way during this time? I became a salarite. That's something. My memory is that I got paid 25,000 years to begin with. That's my memory, and maybe one. And then with each, as it became more of this, because I kept looking at what's going on at home, I was thinking, and... Did you, and financially, you were not relying on him, the 25,000 or whatever amount you were paid, were you relying on that money to live, and his generosity to live, or did you have your own money? So there's... And again, I want to just make sure we're talking about keeping it between the late 90s, maybe I guess, and do a little of the 2000s. I just want to hit something on the head right now. So, Tremendous Man of Recording said that I had a trust fund. Thank you. A trust fund? I have never had a trust fund. So how did you live? Did you live with 25,000 or not? No. So I had dreams very time, a secret. Serious Fodescorder company, a relationship to my father's personal, and established that I had been involved in any way with his business, with any shenanigans. I've told the story many times, so if it's now somewhat hip-hop, but I'll totally wouldn't... My memory is... I received a letter from them that said, you can't get out my business, and my memory, maybe it was possible, it was a PS itself, like you know what, it's custom. I had nothing. There was no... I was never involved in any of his business, whatever it said. I was free. And... So you know, obviously your father and your family had a lot of businesses. Is it because the money, whatever money, or whatever equity was in the businesses, just stayed with your other family members? No, there was no money. So my father was never attached to me. He was born a peasant, but a real one, dirt floor, no shoes, no clothes, you know, some clothes, but not, you know. Sorry, I didn't see. Nothing. And he never... He was never in so much. I mean, there were things that he had as extravagances, he loved his boat, and his clean. So obviously he made money for that, but there was no nothing else. And there was not a single penny that came to any of us, at any time ever. Okay, so when you're talking about your life with Mr. Epstein in the 90s, you're not... You're very different financially. You're very different financially positioned than he is. Absolutely. He's giving you money, he's paying for you when you fly, he has to in the days of your flights. Yes. Okay. Okay, so you... I interrupted you when you were saying, you were functioning as a manager, you helped with the New Mexico Ranch. So did your role with him continue like that for many years, or for how long? So I continued in 2000, well, in... By 1999, our relationship had founded in... What? Well, two reasons. We were never sleeping together again. So we stopped having sexual relations in 1999. Not... full sex, sorry, just to be clear. It didn't mean that we didn't still share a better relationship when we were together. He had another girlfriend. A good one. Are the girlfriends. I... definitively knew that it was over after 9-11, actually. Because we were both from New York. And I don't know, we were living in New York. And we were 9-11s. And it was a scary time, if you didn't know, I didn't know. Nobody knew what was going on. And he was in San D'Festery, and I was in... in... in the 65th grade of my house. And... he wouldn't see me. At all. I saw his mum, I've known very close to losing her hospital, but then, except, she starts missing her back to her. And then I knew, because I knew one day at that time, if you're not going to be there, for someone to know you're never going to be there. So, something like that was the line in the second. And he had, another... say, English girlfriend, actually, called 2000. Are you still being paid by him at this point? Yes. Okay, so go ahead. So, what... at that point, when you say you realize, kind of... Well, I mean, I'm talking about the... I had had... there was a... I wanted to get married in New York. And Epsilon had... encouraged me to believe that... I don't know about that. I'm sorry, by the late 90s, any of the marriage part was never going to happen. I believe that maybe in the 90s takes up the seven, maybe eight, maybe, but then I realized that wasn't that. But I did think that we might have a child, which is what I have really wanted. And... I think that... So, two... Okay, so... What happens between 2001 and then 2019? What's your relationship with him? So... Give it to 2001. So, you start having... physicality. I mean, that doesn't mean you weren't friends. I certainly did stay sometimes in this room. I mean, friends with benefits, if you are just not friends. Okay. So, just... Okay. Um... And... I started dating. Okay. And I met someone that I found... very much in London. In 2002, his name was Ted White. And Ted White, he may know as a founder of England, but it could be just... And... We had a relationship that ended when I went on a teller, and told him, that I was with Ted. So, not Ted. Did you meet him through Miss Rupsin? No. Well, indirectly. I suppose you could tell you, look, they never met. I was... as a dinner... where I met Ted, but it wasn't. I was with the first president. President, since my friend, had sex with him. And, um, Edstein had flown. And there was a dinner and Ted came to the dinner. I guess indirectly, so he started seeing his brain, but I'd been there anyway without him. It was not the same. Was that the other plane you guys flew? On that trip? Yes. Well, yes. So, when you say... the dinner was well. Okay. And so, you had flown over with... Who was on the plane for that trip? Everybody. When you said, Miss Rupsin was on the plane? Yes. You were on the plane? Yes. Well, you can remember. I'm not... You only know with your mother. President quitted on the plane? Quentin. Um, David and David had his guy, Doug, and fans. And David Jason Cooper. So, why did he say that's when you met him? And that he met him through Clinton? Well, it was... I don't think Ted would have been there. It was a present-tension dinner. And Ted came to the present-tension, not to do with Mr. Epstein. Does that make sense? Yes. That's why I say that. Okay. So, you're... So, in the time that you're dating that you're with him to 2009, are you still working for Mr. Epstein during that time? Yes. So, um, could we truly say that Jeffy tried very hard, Mr. Epstein tried very hard to keep me to work for him? Because... I mean, this is a complex operative. I'm not talking about anything. I'm talking just as sheer size of a project, I'm talking about construction projects, the houses, the staff. It's a really significant job. And I ran all the properties, the staff in the properties, the management of the properties that I did with construction. And the two things, ten million dollars that I didn't do, I can't remember what the budget was with construction and any given year I had. It's gone. But it was... He's a very significant project. And so, that was what I did and I managed the budget. I saw the budget, so I just made sure that, if he said you bought an outlet that had a very conditionally important, I saw an air conditioning car and I could call the... the island manager, did you receive the carrier or whatever, you know? When did Mr. Epstein purchase the island? I wanted to say 9697, something like that. Okay, so we're going to come back and spend more time on the money and with Mr. Epstein and his wealth. But just so we can finish this. So in 2009, you ended up in relation to Ted? Yes, he was. That's a 10. I thought I'd better pick this 10. So in that time period, what happens next? With as far as your relationship with Mr. Epstein? I don't have time. You don't have one of them, like, you don't see him in a different relationship. I did see. I made this one worth twice, maybe three times. I certainly went to his house once, for sure, maybe twice. But I was not seeing him very time that I was in touch with him was when the things happened, like things that were in the press, that effectively, or when the CVRA case was filed and then he left rubbish that went out because I didn't do information. Because I didn't know anything about what was happening and I needed to start with it. Eight hours, I was in a big somewhere, and he placed that. I don't mean his help. I meant to have answers so that I had an ability to defend myself. That's what I think. I'm not talking about that. When did that relationship change? So you're working, you talked about when the physical relationships stopped, and then you're still working for him, or with him managing his properties and serving as a general manager, you then start your own relationship with another individual from RTEAD, from 2003 to 2009 or 2010. At what point in that whole period is there more of a break where you're no longer acting as his general manager? I wanted to have a full break when I started basic tech. I was in a very bad mood. I was clever. I suppose it would be true to say that I sort of viewed this actually at points with family, if you were like someone I could rely on, and I should have had the confidence in myself I could see that now, but at the time I've given everything that had happened in my life, I thought that it would, and I saw how he was with other people like Eva, who seemed to be very comfortable saying that I thought this would be, and I always said I was like family, so he worked hard to maintain a relationship with me, he was generous with me, he never used to play me, which was very generous. He would check in with my mum, who thinks that we're meaningful to me in that time. And then it may still not have worked, but his mother, Paula, had been in a very serious car crash, and she had become sort of like a surrogate mother to me, sort of because my mum wasn't there. I could look after her the way that I could have... Sorry. The way that I would have liked to look after my own mum, so I became very close to his mother, and she had been in a car crash, and in 2004 I believe it may have been five, I don't recall exactly. She took her health, took a serious decline, and Epstein called me and asked me if I could look after her. By looking after her, Batman, organising her doctors, making sure she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean. Where was she? She lived in a retirement establishment outside of Palm Beach, outside of its West Palm. I was going to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not called that. I just don't remember what it was called, but it was an old age. It was a retirement home, if you will. Todd, I don't know what we've been going for about an hour now. Is this a good time? Yeah, so we'll take a break. All right, so we're going to take a break. The time is 10.56.